Speaking and Communicating Podcast

People will say, well, that means I don't have any fear.

I'm like, no, not, no, that's not what that is.

Fearless is being willing to walk your path, regardless of the obstacle.

A hero never thinks they're courageous the moment they're doing a heroic act.

And nobody on the battlefield is going, I am so heroic right now, as I'm saving my comrade.

So when you are your most courageous, you will feel anything but courageous.

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating Podcast.

I am your host, Roberta Nela.

If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning in to.

Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development.

And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review.

Now, let's get communicating.

Now, let's get communicating with Emmy Award winner Rhonda Britten, who is the founder of Fearless Living Institute.

She is a fear expert who's been in over 600 reality TV episodes, has been a guest on Oprah, Steve Harvey, The Today Show, and so many more.

And she's been on television for over 30 years, helping people overcome their fears.

And before I go any further, please welcome her to the show.

Hi, Rhonda.

Hello.

Hello.

I'm so glad to be here.

I'm excited that you are here too.

Like I said, your credentials speak for themselves, but please introduce yourself to our listeners.

Well, you know, it just means I'm old, right?

Wiser.

Wiser.

Thank you.

Yeah, it just means I've been around.

You know, so I was one of the first original life coaches.

I've had the good fortune to watch this industry go from its infancy, where there was like five of us to hundreds of us.

And first television show was in England for two seasons.

And then I came back after my second season and starting over the television show that went on to win Emmys and was on at noon on NBC every day for three years.

I had several offers to be on different TV shows, but that TV show already had a contract.

And why I picked that show is exactly what we're talking about in this moment, which is I wanted to be the first life coach on TV, so people could see what good life coaching was, because life coaching is such a critical skill, and it is based on communication.

Which is this show, Communication.

Yes.

So you say you were one of the first.

How did you get to know that there is this career path called life coaching?

Well, there wasn't back then.

I mean, there literally wasn't life coaches when I became a life coach.

Literally, I'm not joking, there were like five people, and it wasn't anything yet.

Thomas Leonard, who is considered to be the founder of coaching as an industry, or as a profession, I should say, as a life coaching profession, was one of the first, and he had started.

And then there was just a dappling of us.

But how I got involved was, I had this horrific event, and we could talk about that in a minute, but I owned my own public relations company at the time.

I worked, it was a small, I worked as solo entrepreneurs.

One of my clients was one of the first life coaches.

And he would tell me all the time, you're going to be a better coach than me.

And I said, no, because my past, I'm too screwed up because I really, really, really, really believed that the past that I had lived, the horrific experiences I had lived, the way that I acted out, et cetera, et cetera, which we can talk about if you'd like, that exempted me from being a life coach.

I could never do that.

So it was only after this miraculous event that intervened in my life that I started to contemplate doing what I do today.

But again, when Paul, my client, who was one of the first coaches, would say to me, you're going to be a great coach, or you're going to be a better coach than me, I couldn't believe that somebody like me could do that.

Because of my history.

So it definitely took a miracle for me to eventually jump in and say yes.

Because today, life coaches will say to us, your mess becomes your message.

Well, it is.

It's to a certain extent.

The way I say it is, the worst day of your life has the seat of your destiny.

So whatever you think are the worst days of your life that you'd like to put behind you, and you'd never like to see them again, which by the way, I don't want to see my worst days either again.

But those worst days have the seed of your future.

They have the seed of something that you are meant to take on, that you're meant to explore, you're meant to embody, you're meant to master.

So when Paul would say to me, you're going to be a coach, I really truly believed that I did not have the right to tell anybody what to do because my life was anything but okay.

So, yeah, your mess is your message as long as you woke up and you cleaned it up and you learned skills along the way.

So we could go into the coaching industry and all my woes about it because the coaching industry has become watered down with many trainings that are inexperienced run by inexperienced people that have never had been properly trained themselves.

So the coaching industry of itself isn't a crisis.

Yet, what I know to be true is that whatever the worst day of your life is, if you look at it with shame or want to stuff it down and ignore it, that's actually where you're going to find your destiny.

Yes.

And also, if you don't look at it from the point of view of, I'm so afraid of this happening again.

You know how we build these walls?

We build these protection layers of, oh, this is the worst day of my life.

For it not to happen again, this is how I'm going to make decisions going forward.

Then those decisions are fed by fear, basically.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's what I specialize in, this fear.

And when I was going to the worst days of my life, if somebody would have asked me, are you afraid?

I would have looked at them like, no.

I mean, I'm from Michigan and Minnesota.

I grew up, I'm 100 percent Finnish.

We don't feel, that's the joke in the neighborhood, right?

Finnish people don't feel.

So there was no opportunity to actually experience feelings or to express yourself in any way, shape, or form.

Communication, forget it.

I would say that most people where I grew up, their trauma response was frozen, that they just became silent.

And I was silent most of my life and didn't believe I had a right to speak.

And I think that I'm not alone there.

I think too many of us feel like we don't have a right to speak, whether that's just speaking up to our mate, speaking up at work, becoming a professional keynoter, whatever that looks like.

But communication is the key to our freedom.

If you're unable to communicate what's in your head, heart, mind, and soul, then you are going to feel cut off from the world.

And by communicating, it can be with words, it can be with voice, it can be in writing, it can be in art, it can be some sort of expression.

Your heart and your thought and your soul is dying to be expressed.

And when you've had a background where that is silenced, then as an adult, how do you then transition to now?

I want to express myself.

I've always wanted to, but now I really want to express myself.

How do you even begin?

Because I think a lot of the time, even when people go to therapy, they say, you know, I've never really been outspoken about how I genuinely feel about things, so I was people-pleasing, so I didn't really communicate on expressing what I really felt.

So how do you then make that first step, especially as a grown up?

Well, the first thing that you have to do is make a decision.

You have to decide that you want to do that.

Because learning how to do that is walking in new shoes.

It is opening up a whole new journey for you.

When you say, I want to express myself, which by the way, I want you to too, and I want every single human being on the planet to, I also want them to be able to do it with skill.

And so most people, when they first start speaking up, they go, I'm going to start saying what I feel.

I'm going to start speaking up.

Well, they do it kind of sloppily.

They kind of go, bleh.

They just blurt it out or something.

Because that's all they can do at that point.

And they don't get a good response.

So that also, again, may shut them down again, like, well, that didn't work.

Thinking that you're just saying what, expressing yourself is going to get you something or get you what you want or make people love you.

No, that's not how it works.

So there's the raw expression that we all need to have.

Yet, what has to happen in order for us to become master communicators is our willingness to learn the communication skills that are so needed and necessary for you to be heard.

So you can speak, but do you want to be heard?

Do you want people to listen?

Do you want your voice to have impact?

Well, that's your job to do, to learn communication skills.

And I'm not talking about just taking Communication 101.

That's the beginning, but really learning the art of communication.

And for me, as a coach, I call it the art of coaching.

You know, what I train my coaches to do, and what I obviously teach my students, is how do you express yourself in a positive, powerful, impactful way?

How do you empower while you're saying some tough stuff?

And this is a opportunity for each of us to decide, yes, I want to do that, but that's, like I said, it's opening a door to a journey that is going to be fraught with you facing and going past your own fears.

So just because you learn a skill doesn't mean you're going to use the skill.

Fear is going to try to stop you.

You're the one that has to decide, okay, I learned the skill, now I'm going to use the skill.

And when you use it the first time, the 10th time, the 8th time, you're probably going to feel a lump in your throat, and you're probably going to feel shaking in your arms, and you might feel like, don't do it.

You might hear that voice, your negative self-taught, don't do it, don't do it.

You have to circumvent all that.

Your body might shake, your throat might get a lump, and it doesn't mean you're not supposed to do it.

It just means what you're doing is new.

And your body will get used to it over time.

And you're going to soothe your body.

You're going to be like, we're okay, we're okay, we're learning the skill.

Your body wants to protect you, your mind wants to protect you.

Our whole being, our neurobiology, is based on protection and safety.

And whenever a problem in the present, your brain automatically looks at the past for a solution to create a different future.

Because your body and brain goes, well, she's alive, so I must be doing a great job.

So let's repeat that again.

Let's repeat that again, because I'm doing amazing, right?

Because she's alive, right?

And that's the only criteria it has, right?

It doesn't care if you're happy, doesn't care if you're affected, doesn't care if you're loved, it doesn't care about any of those.

It only cares that are you alive.

So you're the one that has to retrain your fear, retrain your body, retrain your mind, retrain your heart.

So if you're willing, and I hope you are, to jump on the journey of being a masterful communicator, that is going to usher you into a world that is utterly different than the one you're living now if you are not communicating.

And if you're communicating at a freshman level, and you want to become a graduate student, again, even though you're communicating now, once you get better at it, it literally opens your life up to anything as possible.

And I'm glad you mentioned the part where people think communicating with, I express myself and they just vomit out whatever comes to mind.

That's not communicating.

That's not communicating.

That's vomiting.

Also, they wonder why, exactly, then they wonder why they don't get the response they were hoping for or that everybody around them withdraws.

Because that confusion of, but I'm expressing myself and what do you expect?

It's because of how the message was carried.

Yes, right.

You didn't have the skill.

You had the courage, right?

You had the courage to speak up.

Yay, you.

Woo, right?

Yay, you.

But now you've got to learn the how, the skill of it.

So there's the raw emotion, right?

And then there's the skill of channeling that passion, channeling that desire, channeling that message.

I would definitely not be who I am today without that skill.

And it is the number one skill that coaches, therapists, wellness practitioners, leaders, managers.

If you are not skilled at communicating, you are going to feel thwarted in many of your efforts.

That is true.

Job, personal, everywhere.

And now you mentioned that word courage.

You know, there's a saying that courage is not the absence of fear, but facing the fear head on.

What do you think of that?

Absolutely.

So I have something called fearless living.

My book is called one of my books is called fearless living.

And people will say, well, that means I don't have any fear.

I'm like, no, no, that's not what that is.

Fearless is being willing to walk your path regardless of the obstacles, right?

As you know, I'm sure you've all heard that a hero never thinks they're courageous the moment they're doing a heroic act.

No, nobody on the battlefield is going, I am so heroic right now as I'm saving my comrade.

No, nobody don't think of that, right?

Nobody's thinking that.

They're thinking, holy crap, crap.

Oh, crap.

Right.

So when you are your most courageous, you will feel anything but courageous.

So that's why when we began our time together and you said, well, what, you know, how do you begin this journey?

It starts with a decision.

Because when you decide, I want to become, I want to be heard and I want to hear, I want to be listened to and I want to be, I want to be able to listen, I want to be seen and I want to see, etc.

Then you are going to open up parts of yourself that you've hit away a long time ago to keep yourself safe, a false safe, not an authentic safe.

So you're going to feel more alive, more connected, more love, more light, more possibilities when you now have the skill of how to get your message across.

The authentic and not the false.

Yes.

What's the difference between the two?

Well, false safety is, I'm going to sit on the couch and eat Doritos because I can't get hurt on the couch, right?

Boredom, being lethargic.

I'm not ready to take a risk right now, etc.

Those types are a false safety.

I'm just the way I am.

We've all heard people say, I'm just who I am.

That's not safe.

That's no.

So in order to have that authentic safety, you've got to be willing to discover who you really are and what your values are and how you want to stand in this world.

Are the words you're about to speak?

Is the message you're about to deliver?

Is the question you're about to ask?

Is that aligned with who you really are?

Is that emitting from your soul?

Is that from inspired or are you saying what you need to say to get what you want?

That's all fear-based.

Do I want you to be a great salesman?

Of course I do.

Do I want you to learn the art of selling?

Of course I do.

Yet if it's not coming from that authentic place, from AI is going to take over many things.

And the way we combat AI is being authentic because AI can't be you.

AI can get to know you a lot, but it is not you.

It is not your heart.

It is not your soul.

It is not your soul expression.

It's not your soul imprint.

You know, the more that you're willing to say, I want to discover who I am because what I know to be true is when I started this journey, I didn't know who I was.

I didn't know what authentic meant.

So just being willing to explore, well, who am I really?

Like, what do I really believe?

What do I really want?

Really?

Not from outside influences, but what do I really want?

What do I really want to say?

What do I want my life to stand for?

And that takes a willingness to ask some deep questions of yourself.

The answers are not frivolous.

Speaking of self-reflection, we have found that quite a number of people are afraid of that very act of sitting quietly, and that's why they numb themselves with something that's going to take their attention away from looking within and being silent.

Why is there such a big fear of, let me look within, let me be with myself for once?

They're definitely afraid of what they're going to find.

So, when I was going through my worst times after my worst day, I thought if I expressed myself, now logically, what I'm about to say, I knew wouldn't happen.

So, logically, intellectually, I knew this was false.

Logically, I understood, but my whole body told me that if I started speaking up and being authentic, my anger would be released, and I would be so rageful, I would destroy the world.

And I remember so vividly that feeling, that if I actually expressed myself, I would destroy the world.

Now, again, logically, I knew I wouldn't destroy the world, but it felt so overwhelming.

I'd stuffed the anger down so long.

I'd stuffed the hurt down so long.

I'd stuffed the abandonment down so long, and the betrayal down so long, and the feelings of rejection, and it's so long that I didn't believe that I could withstand authentically hearing my own voice or saying the truth.

I didn't think that I could live through that.

And I think many people feel that way.

They'll say things like, well, who wants to go there?

Who wants to look at that?

And it's like, yeah, I get it.

And you don't have to do a deep self-examination to be a better communicator.

You can just become a better communicator.

And as you become a better communicator, the desire to be more authentic will probably arise.

Right.

So it doesn't matter which way you go.

Like, I'm not willing to go there.

Okay, don't go there.

Just become a better communicator.

Just learn the skills, right?

Learn the how.

Because as you start speaking up, and you'll be using scripts then because it won't be authentic, that bud will blossom and you will eventually start speaking more of your true authentic self.

But you'll be safer in the sense because you'll have the skill to do it.

I think people are just petrified of what they're going to find, and they don't have the support and the unconditional love to give them the courage to do it.

And one of the things you help your clients with is helping them get out of feeling not good enough, which is that very thing of, I don't want to self-reflect because I know what I'm going to find there is not good enough.

I'm not confident.

You know, all the horror stories we tell ourselves.

So how do you help them with getting out of that?

Confidence is an illusion, and confidence is a never-ending invitation, a never-ending thing that must be continuously honed and continuously courted.

And I actually want to gift your listeners with a course that actually is going to address this very thing.

So I'm going to bring it up now since it seems appropriate.

But I have a course called Stretch, Risk, or Die.

And no, you do not have to die.

It is, many of my clients' very favorite exercises.

And what it does is if you have a dream, if you have a goal, if you want to make something happen, this course is going to show you how to actually increase your confidence.

It's going to cure procrastination, and it's going to show you how to take risks in a safe way in the beginning, right?

It's going to show you what keeps stopping you.

So that's called stretch, risk, or die.

And then I've developed a model called the Wheel of Fear and the Wheel of Freedom.

And the Stretch, Risk, and Die course that I'm offering as a gift has three 15-minute videos.

So it's super easy.

It has workbook.

It has examples.

I walk you through the whole thing.

And on the third video, I actually go through and detail what the Wheel of Fear is.

So you can start seeing how the Wheel of Fear acts out, how the Wheel of Fear works so that you can start seeing, oh, that's why I feel not good enough.

Oh, that's why I don't do that.

Okay, got it.

So you're basically going to get two gifts today.

One is how to cure procrastination, right?

And take risks and live more authentically and follow your dream.

And then also, I'm going to give you the information about the Wheel of Fear so that you can start contemplating like, wait, it's not me, it's fear.

It's like, yeah, it's not you, it's fear.

So go to fearlessliving.org, fearlessliving.org, o-r-g, forward slash risk, r-i-s-k, fearlessliving.org, forward slash risk, r-i-s-k.

Put your name, your email, you'll get access to our back end, our platform, our courses are, and you'll get access to the course.

And again, it's only 350-minute video, so do it.

Do it if you're listening right now, do it.

That barely takes about an hour.

Yes, fearlessliving.org/risk.

There's no excuse basically.

No need to procrastinate.

Don't procrastinate by going to get the procrastination class.

Don't do it.

Exactly.

Take Rhonda's course.

Now, what if you feel at least a lot of the time, let's say you're coached by Rhonda, you overcome your fears, and you barely make decisions out of fear.

But what if the people around you, because we have so many voices and not just physically, we have voices from social media, from, you know, friends offline.

What if those voices, how do you curb them so that they don't kill whatever courage you're trying to develop within yourself?

Yeah.

Well, I have something in my book Fearless Living, and I also teach a class called Fearless Living Transformation Program, and I teach it live.

I'm actually teaching it live coming up soon.

So when you go to Fearless Living, you can actually look that up.

I talk about fear junkies and fear busters, and I actually give you tools and skills on how to work with, connect with those fear junkies in your life, those people that are still stuck on what I call the wheel of fear, and how to cultivate a fear buster team, to cultivate those powerful and impactful people in your life, and create people that are supportive of you, that will be there when you need them.

And again, you'll be there for them.

So I highly encourage you to start noticing the world through the lens of, are they a fear junkie or a fear buster?

Now, this is where I differ with the kind of social media frenzy going out there.

You know, everyone's talking about toxic people.

And are there toxic people?

Yes, there are toxic people.

So let me get that straight.

Yes, there are toxic people.

But I think most people are taking toxic people to a whole new level when it's just unaware people or disconnected people or fearful people.

People who don't agree with me.

I'm an outsider, so I might be having a different perspective.

But I find that here in this country, people who don't agree with you, you then label them toxic and you block.

They haven't developed a culture where you can disagree and still sit on the same table.

That's right.

That's right.

Because they don't have the skills.

You know, when you're talking about communication, they don't have the skills.

They don't trust themselves to speak up and hold themselves in the power position, i.e.

keep your center, right?

They worry about collapsing, and they don't know how to deal with that.

They don't know how to deal with somebody who's coming on their site and giving them hell, so to speak.

So there's a difference between toxic people who are really dysfunctional and hurtful, you know, narcissistic.

Again, you know, I could put a lot of names on it.

And other people who, just like you said, Roberta, is they're just not good communicators, and they have no access to their emotional life, and they don't know how to manage it.

They don't have emotional intelligence, not that much.

And all they're doing is joining the bandwagon, so they're repeating phrases that they learned, but they don't even know what they mean.

So that's not a toxic person per se, that's just an uneducated or a fearful person or a person not aligned with you.

Just somebody who's not aligned with you, they just have a different value system.

I had this happen the other day on my social media.

A high school friend of mine actually went on there and started spewing all this stuff about the fires in Los Angeles.

I live in Los Angeles.

So I said, I understand blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?

And she's like, she comes back with anger, again, lashing out.

And I said, I'm totally happy to have an impactful conversation with you, I'm totally happy to hear you.

And I'm not going to browbeat with your rage and anger.

So I basically said something like, you seem really angry.

That has nothing to do with the LA fires or me.

The person doesn't live in LA.

The person doesn't live in LA, and they are just upset because they have a belief.

They've decided that everybody in LA whose house burned down is a millionaire.

That's what they've decided.

They've decided everybody in LA who lost their home is a millionaire, which by the way is not true.

A lot of middle class and lower class people lost their homes.

Remember, there was apartments, the houses that were there 80 years, 60 years.

Their grandma built their house, their grandpa built their house, and they could never afford to live on that place, buy a house there or live there or build again because they couldn't afford it.

So they've lived there so long that they can afford it and the house has paid off.

So there's a lot of people in dire straits right now.

And yes, some are millionaires, sure, but most are not.

And so she was going on and on about how everybody, they don't deserve any FEMA, they don't deserve any, you know, and it's like, oh, sweetheart, every United States citizen deserves FEMA, and every person is in pain, right?

So, you know, you're angry at rich people.

That has nothing to do with the LA fire.

It has everything to do with your closed heart and you feeling victimized.

I gave her a little loving, you know, a couple of sentences and just said, I'm here to support you, to listen, to have a conversation, but I'm not here to listen to you spew.

So I didn't block her.

But if she continued to come back and every word she said was spewing and hateful after I talked to her, and maybe after I DM'd her, then I would probably block her.

Because then she's been given that second chance to re-evaluate.

She's been given, right?

I'm inviting her.

I'm not angry at her.

I'm saying, hey, I understand.

And let me correct your thinking.

Let me correct your perception.

And again, she's a high school friend.

So I mean, I'll see her at the high school reunion.

But I'm not going to pollute my page for everyone else that's there.

I will accept it and work with it until at this moment in time, it becomes unworkable.

This is a parallel that I'm drawing with also the election results, right?

Yes.

If you have somebody that way, and you're on opposite sides of the spectrum, how do you communicate and still maintain a relationship while knowing you are on opposite sides of the political spectrum in America?

Half of my family is.

They're on the other side.

They are more political now than they've ever been ever.

One, yay, they're becoming political because people say I'm not political.

It's like, well, every service that you get, every the way society is run is a political decision, is based on politicians going into the Congress.

So if you're not political, you are saying I am taking my hands up the wheel, so to speak, and I'm letting other people decide my future and fate.

So I have half my family who believes very differently than I do.

One of our rules is we don't talk politics because if we do, some of us are skilled communicators and some of us aren't.

And so it can easily get off the rails.

So that's one of our rules.

The other thing is that I know what I try to do when it comes from political, and they see very differently than I do.

I try to find those places where we do agree.

We do agree that all people should be housed and all people should be treated respectfully.

We do agree with those things.

My philosophy is if you really peel back the reason you're Republican or independent or Democrat or undecided, we're all want the same things.

There's nothing we, most of us, don't want the exact same.

We just think the solution is different, right?

That is true.

Yes.

Right?

Yeah, I want my solution.

Sure.

Yeah, I want my solutions.

But right now, your solutions might be going into play, and then we can see what will happen there.

But we all want the same thing.

So you got to get underneath the rhetoric and really focus on, well, what do you really want?

Do you want people to have a right to citizenship?

Do you want people to be separated?

Do you want people to be able to get FEMA?

Do you want people to get health care?

Do you want people to pay for prescriptions?

We all want the same thing.

The goal is the same.

The goal is the same.

The way to go about it is different.

The journey is the same.

It's similar to when we talk about corporate communication.

If you're in a team, I may be the type that wants to get to the goal and want to know what the goal is when we work on this project, and Rhonda may be, I want to know how we're going to get there.

Somebody give me the breakdown step by step.

And then we end up thinking we're on different sides of this or we're butt heads.

Whereas at the end of the day, it's just we have a different way of getting to the end goal.

And speaking of end goal as well, this is why I asked since I came here, because I'd say my brother has never voted like me and my mom.

I think my dad changed his votes like a few elections ago.

So and we openly talk about it.

I have friends, because why do we have more than two political parties?

I think here it's because it's either or mostly.

But we talk about it in the sense that he will say, yeah, this is why I vote for this party, because I can see A, B, C, and D, and it's good for South Africa.

And then I'm going to vote for this one, because I think South Africa needs those right now.

We came from apartheid.

We need to fix this.

I think this party is speaking more into that.

And then my mom's going to something.

And so at the end of the day, as South Africans, we want to vote for South Africa.

That's right.

And we all have different parties and different ways of getting there.

And we accept that about each other because we keep saying, at the end of the day, I want to vote for South Africa.

I want to vote for South Africa.

And I've always wondered why it doesn't get to that in America when my friends are with their families and they have debates about this.

And it's like they momentarily forget that they're Americans.

Yeah, they do.

They do.

Well, they think they're more American.

That's the thing, right?

They think they're more American.

So, yes, absolutely.

So, they think they're more American and those other people are not really Americans.

So, and this is talking about the Democrats and Republicans.

So, I think there have been times in our culture, in the history of America where we did, could have those difficult conversations.

I think there are many times that we've been able to do that.

But right now, our politicians are modeling hatred and modeling anger, and modeling name-calling and modeling, right?

They're modeling negative, disempowering communication skills.

And so, there is not an invitation to have a powerful conversation.

Because if you say anything different, you're labeled stupid.

Oh, you're not an American.

So, people right now, in order to keep in their silos to again, create that illusion of safety, they are othering people.

You don't want the president to do ABC, well, then you're not an American.

So, then I can dismiss you, and I do not have to question myself.

I do not have to get into my own brain and heart and think about, well, what is it that I really believe in?

What do I really want?

So, critical thinking is out the window right now.

Exactly.

And so, we're not able to dissect, well, this part of your plan I really like, and this part of your plan I really like.

Both parties have parts of a solution.

And before, at times in our history, we were able to come together and find that solution.

But now, it's simply name-calling, labeling, judging, othering.

That's shut down, then the other side has no permission to contribute.

Both have some good and some bad.

That's right.

Because that's what we do, Ramya.

My brother, the party he's been voting for, he'd be like, oh, yeah, oh, they really are a big mess in that department.

But when I look at this, I think right now that's what we need, because this last administration, this was a mess.

We can say, I vote for this guy, but I can see the weaknesses.

I can see where he's corrupt.

But I think because it's strong here, South Africa needs this right now.

Here, if I like a party, I will never admit they are wrong, even when they are wrong.

If I don't like the other party, even when they do right by America, I can never acknowledge it.

It's very different.

Yes, it's juvenile.

It's juvenile and it's immature.

But our politicians are modeling that.

And so everybody who has limited communication skills now feel seen and feels like they're right.

And then they can walk around with their shoulders and up and be like, haha, I'm smarter and whatever.

And it's like, okay, gang, it's connection.

We are only going to exist as a country through connection.

We're not going to exist.

Just like Abraham Lincoln said, I'm going to butcher the quote, but house divided cannot stand.

We right now are divided.

It's not my choice to be divided, right?

That's not my choice.

I connect with my relatives and friends who believe differently than I do.

I have really good friends that believe differently than I do.

And people have said to me, I don't believe you're still friends with them.

I can't believe you talk to them.

It's like, no, but I love them.

But I love them.

And it doesn't minimize the friendship.

It doesn't minimize the fact that they have their own reasons for believing and having the values that they do.

It's okay.

Yes, but what we want to do, what you're modeling in South Africa is, I want to be able to have those difficult conversations with my friends and family.

And at this moment in time, so I just say it's a moment.

I'm not going to say it's going to always exist.

This moment in time, that's not possible.

They just shut down.

They just won't refuse to speak.

So my whole thing is just continuously the invitation of, I'm here, they know very well that I think differently.

I just love them because I'm thinking, well, I'm different than them.

I think differently than them.

I believe differently than them.

And they love me, so all of us can't be bad.

That's one of the things that I think like, okay, well, they know somebody who believes opposite.

So maybe that will support them and not being so generic, and all of them are bad, so black and white, and instead go, well, Rhonda isn't so bad.

I guess they're not all bad.

Bottom line, you are all American.

Just remember that.

Oh, God, please, Lord, let it be so.

Yeah, we're all Americans.

Let it be so.

Let it be so.

Right, right.

Any last words of wisdom for someone who still thinks fear holds them back?

There's nothing wrong with you.

It's just fear.

There's nothing wrong with you.

It's just fear.

There's nothing wrong with you.

It's just fear.

So go and get that course, fearlessliving.org/risk so you can see how fear works.

And there is nothing wrong with you.

It's just fear.

There's nothing wrong with you.

It's just fear.

Words of wisdom from Rhonda Britten, the founder of Fearless Living Institute.

Emmy Award winner with over 600 episodes of Reality TV, been a guest on Oprah, Steve Harvey, The Today Show, and a four times bestselling author.

The latest book being Fearless Living.

Thank you so much, Rhonda.

I really enjoyed my conversation with you.

Thank you.

Be fearless.

I will be.

Do my best every day.

Thank you so much.

And you're welcome.

Said again, fearlessliving.org.

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