Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please remember to subscribe, give a rating and a review. Today, I have the privilege of being joined on the show by Elizabeth Batalla.
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She is the founder and CEO of the Institute for Achievement and Excellence. She has been in the corporate field for over 30 years, and all her experience, research, is here to help us to realize what benefits companies, big corporations, could have if they diversify their leadership and their product offerings with the women's perspective.
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As she coaches women, we will hear more about her work, what we can do in order to grow our confidence and overcome imposter syndrome. Before I go any further, please help me welcome Liz. Hi, welcome to the show. Hi, Roberta. Thank you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for joining us. I'm really excited, not just because I'm a woman, but I'm really excited about our conversation because during our initial introduction,
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There's so much that we have greed on when it comes to women, especially in leadership positions. Let's talk about your background first before we get into the nitty gritties. Sure, so originally I am from the Caribbean and I lived there until my early thirties working in many male dominated industries such as IT, banking, oil and gas. And when I was working in the...
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IT sector, I got the opportunity to move to the UK for work and I have been here ever since. And during that time of working, I also lectured at different universities and colleges. So it's been a very colorful working experience. First of all, let's put out a disclaimer that just because you work with women,
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Does it mean that you are a man hater, you are pushing back against males? Is that what your work is about? Absolutely not. I embrace the fact that we all have something to contribute and I have been privileged to work with men who are broad in their thinking, have been a tremendous support to me in my career. I have amazing friends, family.
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and co-workers who are male and who are on this journey with me and sometimes from the inception. So by no means it is about demeaning men, it's just simply to express some of the challenges that women face that men may or may not be aware of and how they can help and support us in that journey.
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I'm so glad to hear that my first mentor, when I entered the corporate field as well, back in 1995, he's still like a father figure to me. Even though I left the job a million years ago, we're still very close. So this is not about that at all, in case anyone was wondering. When you were in the Caribbean, you already had started your corporate journey. Yes. What do you think are some of the cultural differences between working in the Caribbean versus being now in the UK?
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For me in the UK, it's both personal and professional. Just the way in which business is done, things are conducted, maybe the scope of work, the proximity to the rest of Europe, and simply how people engage and communicate and speak. Even sometimes like the speed.
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in which we speak or how we communicate, whether directly or indirectly. In the UK, it tends to be a bit more indirect. In the Caribbean, we tend to be a bit more direct in the way we communicate. So those nuances to get accustomed to. But fundamentally, we are all the same. So it wasn't that big of a difference for me in the end, because I was accustomed with dealing with people on an international scale. That is interesting.
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You've mentioned the industries you've worked in. So start us through the journey. What your experiences were like. A lot of it was challenging, I must say, because in those days to be a woman in a senior leadership position or even in a managerial position was quite rare. We're talking 30, 35 years ago. So I'm getting my age away here. It was challenging when as a female, I had to make decisions that my male counterpart had to follow.
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in one situation where I was training in the IT space. In those days, women tend to train and there's nothing wrong with this, but they tended to train the desktop applications, PowerPoint, Word, Excel, et cetera. I was training Cisco routers on how to configure servers for international communications. And a gentleman walked into my program and saw that I was a female, made an about turn and asked for his money to be refunded.
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because he refused to be tutored by a female. He was vocal about it. And that's okay. For me, it stung a bit initially, but it taught me a really important life lesson. And that was for every one person that doesn't appreciate your value, that doesn't want your services. There are probably 10, 15, 20 others who are willing to listen to what you have to say, to value what you have to say. And...
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to use the services that you provide in the way that you were meant for it to help. So I would say to people out there, don't let the challenges of what you experience block you from continuing to add value, continuing to bring yourself forward, continuing to show up in your best possible light, because there will be many more who would appreciate the individual that you are. And that is what kept me going.
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throughout challenges like that as an example, but in the back of my mind, I always knew that there were fewer people like that and more people who would be responsive in a positive way. Something for us to always remember, no matter what the aspect of life is, because you always receive that noise sometimes, it's just for you to not have to entertain it. Now that's someone external.
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having that response towards you. What about in the company, some of the subordinates male, and did you receive pushback by virtue of being female and being their boss? I received pushback throughout my career and pushback doesn't always necessarily have to be something big. A lot of women have experienced and even men do to a certain extent have experienced something called microaggression. It's not always the big thing sometimes
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really derails people. It's the constant little things that happen frequently. An example is as a female sitting in a meeting and having something to say and must thing up the courage to say it only to be shut down by a male counterpart. These are things that tends to happen so frequently and many times because I don't believe that people are inherently bad.
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On many occasions that I have gone into organizations and I have spoken about this, the men automatically say, but that's not what we did. I didn't realize that is how it came across. So the pushback can be partly due to the individual and that individual's level of tolerance to certain situations and their degree of sensitivity, as well as extrinsic in terms of the culture within the organization. So there are many things that can pose a challenge.
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because I am the only female in the room and it did not necessarily receptive to what I have to say because it may upset the status quo or it may cause the idea to go in a different direction in a direction that may or may not be what they bought once at that point in time. So those are the type of challenges that I found cause noise as you called it Roberta because of the frequency in which it happens.
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For a capitalistic world, this is very interesting to me. Women spend more money. In fact, even in marriages, I don't know how it is in your household, but even in marriages, husbands are the ones complaining, saying, you're only spending money, you're only spending money. Women are the biggest consumers comparatively, right? If I have a business, if I have a product offering, wouldn't the voices of the people who spend more money
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be the ones that I bring in into my business so that they give us the perspective of, hey, what does your gender like? What are they talking about lately? What gets them going these days? It just doesn't make sense to me how they still resist putting women in leadership positions when that's the perspective they need because those are the biggest consumers. The thing is, Roberta, the working world is still pretty much a male.
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environment. Remember, women only started going into the working world not too long ago. It has been in history, it has been a man's space. And we started off in support roles, like front desk and that type of thing. Yes, we have come a long way. And yes, we still have a long way to go. But that is fundamentally what is in the workspace. And
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It's going to take time to change. It may or may not happen in our lifetime because what we're looking at there is not just acceptance in the workplace. It's a change in attitude. It's a change in a belief system that we can actually bring to the table as much as our male counterparts. In terms of businesses, what I would say to businesses, one, it is here to stay. It is not a trend because more and more people are wanting to see their representation of who they are.
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in strategic rules, whether it be female, whether it be someone of the same ethnicity, whether it be someone of the same sexual orientation or whatever the situation is. People want to see representation in organizations at strategic levels of the products that they purchase. So that's one. The second thing for organizations, I would say, is that it brings power to the organization. It hits the bottom line.
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There was a study by McKinsey and Company Consultancy in the UK. Only in their fairly recent report, their 2020 report, they have stated that companies are 45% more likely to experience growth in market share and 70% more likely to tap into new markets with a diverse leadership team.
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My first year at university, market share, market share, increased market share, that has been the gospel of capitalism. Why are they resisting this if it's going to increase their market share? Because the thing is we fear what we don't know and it is challenging to deal with people.
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who are different to who we are. In a man's world, it is very different to deal with women because we bring a different dynamic. We sometimes communicate in a different way. We have different needs, we have different perspectives, we have different wants, we have different priorities. And there's nothing wrong with that, that's okay. But with that comes friction. And there's already so much friction in the work environment. There is already so much to achieve and to accomplish in the work environment.
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To embrace that at a strategic level demands a certain degree of tolerance. It demands a certain degree of change. It demands a certain degree of tenacity and gumption and courage. And I'm not saying that men don't have that. I'm saying that it requires something we call effort. And by human nature, we are designed for the path of least resistance, our comfort zone. So although companies know the benefits of it,
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there is still that resistance to embrace that change, to make that change happen and fear of the fact that it may or may not result in something better. Yeah, but we live in a world of uncertainty. So, but in all of the companies I've worked with and the women that I've coached, I have seen nothing but positive results come out from that level of acceptance. So there is a benefit to the company. There is also a benefit
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to the individual, the female herself. Because when a woman knows that she can climb that corporate ladder and she is not prejudiced by her gender, I guarantee the company is going to get more from her. She's going to be more engaged. She is going to be more receptive. She will perhaps come up with better ideas because she's not so stressed all the time. She's not feeling so anxious or so overwhelmed. Those feelings will still exist.
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But when a woman has the support of her company behind her, she's a powerhouse to content with. Because the confidence levels, if they keep being shut down, that's when even your most brilliant ideas don't come to the forefront of your brain. The anxiety just takes over. Even what the brilliance you could have displayed to benefit the company doesn't emit from you. And this is for anyone. This is not gender specific. Anyone who's had...
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their ideas, their viewpoints, what they bring to the table constantly be put down and always ridiculed or maybe just not accepted. It's gonna come a point in time where that person will just walk away because they don't believe that what they bring to the table, at least for that organization, can be of benefit. So they will go elsewhere. And this is what organizations are realizing as well. They are losing some of their best talent that way because employees...
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are no longer willing to stay in organizations where they are no longer fulfilled. That has been a huge shift in the last two years since the pandemic and people are saying I am not going back to that miserable job. Yes, I have a mortgage but I'll figure something else out. Yeah, it has definitely shifted. The pandemic has definitely made a lot of people rethink their priorities.
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not just women, but everyone in general. There is a massive shift in the way things are done and organizations and people in general are realizing that the fulfillment and the happiness is definitely more important, a higher priority than it was placed on before. Back to confidence. I have a cousin, when he was in South Africa, he saw a job ad. It requires that the person have a master's degree. He has a bachelor's, but like I said, over 20 years experience.
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he still applied. Yes. And guess what? He got the job. He's in the Netherlands right now. I thought to myself, wait a minute, if it was me and the job says you must have a master's, not only will I think I need a PhD, but even a few more years of the work experience required. What is it about us women that makes us think, oh, I'm not sure if I qualify for that. That is
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Great question, a massive question. And the reason why I said it's a massive question is it has to do with so many factors, Roberta, in terms of why a woman, when compared to a man, not put herself forward or lack the confidence. If we look at her personal life, it's all the way from birth up to her present point in time. Society saying, speak but don't be heard.
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be feminine. And what does that actually mean? It means sort of not being in the forefront, not being loud, keeping quiet, exactly all of these types of things that culture has associated with being feminine. So there are those dynamics intrinsic to the woman. There's also extrinsic factors and that's within the organization itself. What is the culture of that organization? How does that organization promote internally? What is the dynamics that happen when women put themselves forward?
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The language that is used is so many things that can influence that single point that you spoke about there, where is a female putting herself forward. And I remember speaking to an organization and it started at the beginning for them. When I say it started at the beginning, from induction all the way to exit, their beginning was their job description. When I looked at the way the job description was written, it was written in a very forceful way.
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for this particular role. We have aggressive timelines, aggressive time scales. We want aggressive portfolio management. I looked at the job description and there were probably five to seven instances of the use of the word aggressive. Now as a woman, if I'm looking at that, I am thinking, but I am not aggressive. So this role is not for me, even though I can do it. And I say to organizations, someone doesn't have to be aggressive to achieve aggressive outcomes.
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That's right. A lot of women don't know this. They don't feel that internally. They don't have that level of confidence. And remember, as women too, Roberto, we're nurturers by nature. So for us, things like collaborative, intuition, inspiration, those are the type of things that resonate with us, which may or may not be what's in a job description. It may be required, but it may not be in the job description.
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You hear the word aggressive and you go, oh, okay. Yeah, that's just one example. Another example, as you said, is the level of qualifications. Not because it's in the job description means that that's the only criteria. And a lot of females believe that if they don't exceed the criteria, they can't put themselves forward. Not true at all. The job description is a guide as to what the organization is looking for. It is not cast in stone. It is a guide.
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And how I know that I have been on countless interviews and I have interviewed countless of times. So, not because it says a master's degree and you don't have a master's degree means that you can't do the job because there are other factors that are taken into consideration. One of the things is that we don't want to be seen as arrogant. We don't want to perhaps be disagreeable. We don't want to seem like we're stepping out or showing up too much. These are traits that
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Women also need to become comfortable with. And not because you put yourself forward as a female or you step out of your comfort zone means that you have to be arrogant. It's not about confidence and arrogance. You know, it's not the same thing, but many women feel that, oh, that's too much, or no, I couldn't possibly. And that holds them back a lot of times because that type of behavior culturally is encouraged more in men.
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Men are the ones who step forward and that is why they have the confidence to say, yes, I've never done this before, but I can learn. And they step forward and offer themselves that every single time. Yeah. Now, let's talk about the coaching work that you do. You said earlier that you had people approach you. What were some of the things that they had problems with?
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Well, most of the people who approached me during my career, and even now, as I said, I predominantly deal with women. I do interact with some men as well, but where women are concerned, the top three, I would say one is confidence. The second one is the imposter syndrome and the third one is balance between two sort of overwhelmed slash anxiety. And so those are the top three that I tend to have a dialogue with where women are concerned.
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And so when they come to you, your clients say, this is where I am right now, this is where I wanna go. Do they say, how did you get there or how can you help me get there? Many of them come to me and they have no clue what's wrong, why it is they're not moving forward. All they know is that they are not moving forward. That's as much as they know. Some are more self-aware and they have figured out that there are certain areas that they need to improve. Others, not so much.
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And that's the whole idea of coaching, to help them establish where they are, where they want to go, identify that gap and help them work within that boundary and help them realize that that gap is perhaps not as wide as they believe it to be. They can reach where they want to in a relatively short space of time. It doesn't have to be years and years and decades and decades of trying. Just briefly, how will you be able to take me through opening up those possibilities?
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First and foremost, I get them to do the free assessment that I have online, because that is based on something we spoke about earlier, which is the three forces in achieving excellence. It's a framework that helps people look at their life across nine life areas. So
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each force in the three forces of achieving excellence and excellence by the way it's not about being perfect it's about showing up the best that you can be in the situation that you are in with the resources that you have that's it so the three forces in achieving excellence look at you as an individual your identity then it looks at your connections meaning the relationship you have with yourself and the relationship you have with others and then finally your status
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So in those three forces for achieving excellence, each force contains three life areas. So we end up with nine life areas. The assessment asks questions across those nine life areas and the result is sort of a spider diagram. So that instantly gives me an understanding provided that person wants to share the results with me because the results are private. It gives...
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me an understanding where that person's strengths are, and where their areas for improvements are. And then I use that and I have a discussion with them in terms of where they believe their strengths are and where they believe the areas of improvement are. And then we take it from there. It's not a one size fits all. Yeah, it depends on the individual.
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their capabilities, where they are in their life, how they feel about themselves, because even if someone has access to all of the resources and they are not in a great place, it is going to be a monumental ask to expect anyone to go through any kind of training, far less implement what they have learned. Yes, because they're not even in a position to be accountable. That's what coaches do. Coaches hold you accountable. Before I even expect anyone to do anything.
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I want to understand not only what they want to achieve, but where are they at at the moment in their lives? What do they feel they are capable of? And most importantly, what are their blockers? Because only when we look at what's blocking them, or him or her, only once we understand what the blockers are and remove those blockers, can that person then progress. For sure. Earlier you mentioned that excellence does not mean being perfect.
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Yes. We hear so many people like this. Oh my weakness is being a perfectionist. What is that about? Being a perfect person is an illusion. There is no such thing. The reason why perfection doesn't exist. It's like beauty. It's in the eyes of the beholder. Yeah. What I deem as perfect, someone else may look in and think, oh it's average. It's not actually perfect at all. Because we all look at things.
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We all judge things. We all experience things through our own world, the lens of our own world. Yeah. But if we look at it and we say, okay, well, I'm only measuring it from my point of view. I don't particularly care what anyone else has to say. I want to be perfect. It's still elusive because as an individual, you may choose not to change, but everything around you is changing all the time. Progress is happening all the time. Nature waits on no one.
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The tide and time waits on no one. And because these things are in constant motion and change is in constant motion, your measurement of perfection is constantly changing. Because what's perfect today may not necessarily be perfect tomorrow. Exactly. Excellence is simply being the best that you can based on where you are, but the resources that you have.
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waking up every day doing everything no matter how big or how small to the best of your ability that is what excellence is and whether that's deemed perfect or not by you by others it doesn't matter that is good enough. I absolutely love that definition a lot better. Liz please give us your last words of wisdom. I would say to everyone out there look you know we're living in volatile times
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You lack the confidence or you lack anything, confidence or something else. You are not alone. There are many people out there who are feeling the weight of what is happening in the world, simply do the best that you can start where you are. Start today. Don't wait. Don't procrastinate because every little step that you take forward to reach your goal means that you're closer to that goal today than you were yesterday.
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doesn't have to be grand to be great. So you don't have to take big steps to achieve your goal. Small consistent steps is all that is required, but consistency is key. So start where you are, use what you have and do the best that you can in your professional and personal life. And you will be miles ahead in terms of what you believe you can actually accomplish.
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Eloquent words spoken by Elizabeth Liz Batalla. Thank you so much for being on the show today. It's an absolute pleasure. And before you go, where can we find you on social media so we can continue this conversation? The easiest way to find me, I have LinkedIn, Pinterest, Facebook, everywhere. But the easiest way, if you go on my website, achievementandexcellence.com, it's all one word, and and is spelled out.
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achievementandexcellence.com at the bottom of the landing page. All of my social handles are there. That's the easiest way. Achievementandexcellence.com. Thank you Liz. That was Elizabeth Batalla, the CEO and founder of the Institute for Achievement and Excellence, sharing with us the three forces on what it takes to be excellent, not perfect.
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in both your professional and personal life. Thank you for sharing your time with us today. Thank you.