Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please remember to subscribe, give a rating and a review. Today, my guest, Linda Ingroia, works with social mission-minded entrepreneurs.
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on pitching to investors and creating a clear, compelling brand message. Now, if you think that being in the world means it's all about you and what you are good at and not include the part where you show how you can change the world and transform lives, we are here to change your mind with my guest, Linda today. Hi, Linda. Welcome. Hi, Roberta and everyone listening. I'm excited to talk about.
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sharing our message and our stories, particularly when our goal is to help our community, our society, or just other people in some positive way. Thank you for that. I'm really excited about our conversation. But before that, tell us a little bit about you, where you grew up. I am a born and raised New Yorker. And though I've lived a little bit in California, a little bit in Chicago, and I've traveled to many places in the world, I am back here in New York.
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And I have been immersed in journalism and publishing my whole career until recently when I evolved to start working specifically with entrepreneurs on telling their stories, particularly socially mission-minded ones, because I feel that the technology, the creativity, and the vision that so many entrepreneurs have needs to be shared. And sometimes they're so brilliant in the creation of their products or services.
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but they don't necessarily know how to share that in a way that will inspire investor participation or consumer adoption. So it's really important. And I work in food, health, and education, working with entrepreneurs in those spaces, which is of course, each one of those is huge, but I really am personally motivated because of what I'm helping them share, whether it's
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Food technology, helping people have a kitchen that's more accessible if it's for disabled people, or I've worked with doctors who are creating medical products to help people with diabetes and stroke. I work with education founders, particularly with kids, helping kids learn how to code at very young ages, or to create a platform to help kids learn about teamwork and creativity in school.
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using easy technology. All of these things are actual things that I'm working with with entrepreneurs. And when I realize what they're doing, it inspires me and it motivates me every day to help them be more clear, share their message with impact. So that's what I've been doing now, but I spent most of my career in journalism and more kind of traditional corporate publishing. And interestingly enough, all of those years,
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Growing up to even in my corporate career, I harbored this horrifying fear of public speaking. Really? So here I am today, yes, I'm coaching other people about how to pitch and present and speak in public. But when I was a kid, my teachers told my parents, she doesn't speak at all in class. You have to encourage her to speak. I had to have some training and I finally started speaking in school, but still was always very scared of public speaking. And then,
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working in media and publishing, I could kind of hide behind the page and screen. I loved working with people to help them communicate their message, information, their story, but that was in writing. So the publishing could help you hide and not have to face that fear of speaking in public, but you still shared the messages on paper. Yeah, and I did have to present. I still stayed up late nights, not being able to sleep because I was so...
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paranoid about the presentations. And then the night after I wouldn't be able to sleep because of all the things I thought I did wrong because I didn't realize that speaking, presenting was a skill that you could learn, that a person could learn. Of course, yes. This is what I coach people on and that's why we started the podcast as well. Especially when you talk about how what you are brilliantly creating on your computer and it sits on your hard drive, it's not helping anybody.
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Yes, and I'm so glad that you have this podcast because having conversations about communication is so critical. We often feel, especially nowadays with technology, we can almost operate completely alone all the time. And yet communication is critical in all aspects of our life, from our relationships to, of course, our career path. We have to get in front of people. We have to share our ideas. We have to share our expertise.
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we have to pitch in a way, sell our work. For those of us who have been terrified of public speaking, or even if we don't call it public speaking, some of us just think that we are just not able to do it, that it's not something that's natural to us. And I'm here to say that I have experienced that traumatizing, terrifying fear and I've overcome it and I've learned enough about it that I can coach it now.
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So when you went from being afraid even to go into a career where you just published quietly to now coaching people on speaking, how did you make that transition? Well, by falling deeply, deeply into a hole of despair after I thought that after being in my career for a while, I had developed an expertise and I was proud of my work. And I signed up to lead a panel at an industry conference and I was very proud of the work and I had very formidable.
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panelists and I was very excited. And then the night before in the morning of I developed such a traumatizing paralysis and fear that I developed laryngitis. And I could not speak except for a few words here and there and then I croaked like a frog. And not only was that humiliating enough, but then there were rankings or there were judgment forms after how well did the presenter do and I got the lowest possible rating.
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So I was traumatized and it really blunted my career because I thought I cannot accept opportunities. I do not deserve to be a leader because I can't present, et cetera. Finally, after 20 years in corporate publishing, I was on my own and developing a freelance career. And I realized it's me, myself and I, and if I need to develop my business and clients, I need to be able to represent myself. I needed to accept.
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and acknowledge that I could get better at public speaking. And I joined a famous group around the world called Toastmasters. Hello, fellow Toastmasters. I'm so glad to hear that you two are, we meet our fellow Toastmasters out in the world. You always kind of know who's a good public speaker. They probably did Toastmasters at some time in their life.
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I've become a student also. Not only did I go through the Toastmasters program and get my DTM, which is a distinguished Toastmaster medal. Congratulations, wow. Thank you. I've done athletics, I've done sports, I've done other things in my life that once I'm in it, I commit to it 100%, maybe 150%. So I went to all the meetings, I did all the...
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speeches, I did more than 50 speeches. And the leadership roles as well, yes. Absolutely right, even how you just, it doesn't have to be presenting a formal speeches. How do you lead your team? How do you speak to your team to engage and encourage them? So there's so many things that we can learn by this program, but then I became so aware everywhere I went, I became a student of public speaking and presenting as well, listening, watching.
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taking notes, videos, everything I could absorb, which is why, again, I'm so glad you have this resource because it's one more way to gather information, to realize that this is a skill that's necessary and teachable and learnable. I now coach because it's something that I'm so passionate about, and I'm very often someone who has hit bottom and then risen above it. It's the best way to coach. I love it. I am an evangelist for people.
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overcoming their fear of public speaking. And even if let's say they're not afraid, maybe they have experience, there's always ways to improve, to be more clear, to- And to package your message. One thing that Toastmasters helped me with is, I have so much going on in my head. And so what it helped me do was help me package my message. Yes, we could of course, being both Toastmasters, we should say everyone should go to Toastmasters, but let's say if they can't,
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or they don't want to, whatever, it does require commitment, which of course, anything worth doing does require commitment. But if someone is trying to do this on their own, there are ways to still learn it. Okay, what, how do I deal with my anxiety? There are ways to deal with that. For example, I work with people on literally a preparation set before someone speaks, breathing, having a mantra, having a
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preparation set every time they have to do something, let's say formally, or even just breathing before they have to speak at all, because it's like being an athlete or a singer or anything else, when it's time to be on, you can prepare for that. You can't control what happens. Every public speaking opportunity is essentially a live performance. So we have to treat it like an athlete or a singer or an actor in that same way that you get your voice ready, you get your body ready. There is-
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And it's emotional and mental together, right? So let's say fear, we're afraid, we're panicked. What can we do with the breathing? That's a physical manifestation. Doing vocalizations, that's a physical thing that you can actually do that relieves some of that anxiety and fear that physiologically represented butterflies and all of the shaky hands. Do you know the butterflies feel the same way, the anxiety as excitement? Yes. Actually tell yourself I'm excited rather than I'm nervous.
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Yes, and one of the things that I tell people all the time, and this is something that I had to learn, I thought that when you become a good speaker that you're not afraid, that you're not anxious, that I'm sure you probably know. Just before I start, of course! I always have to reassure myself that my presentation, my final is good enough, that I didn't miss, and of course everybody gets nervous!
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And not only that, but that you can channel it. It's energy. And it could be negative energy. Oh my God, this is terrible. I'm gonna fall down. I remember in terms of mantras, do you feel its mind over a matter? I once was participating in a speech contest and it was in front of 300 people and I had to get up and walk across the stage. I tried to have a little sense of humor and I said, just don't trip or fall off the stage.
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So everything that came after that was golden. Just don't trip and fall off the stage. And you didn't. No, I didn't. And I did pretty well. I didn't have to win. I love that. I felt it was a win just by being there, accepting that challenge, doing my best and not tripping and falling off the stage. You know which part of the contest for me, the Toastmasters, I was participating in the humorous speech contest.
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So the fact that it had to be humorous, I think the nerves were like way lower than the other speech cultures. We have to be serious and your speech is a certain way. And the funny thing is I won in my club and in the area as well because I was just having fun with it. It was humorous. It was funny. Right. I was just going to say it's what we tell ourselves before we have to tell anybody else anything. Right. So that's why I was like, OK, I have to have a funny way of.
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getting up on this stage and hopefully you were saying, just have fun to yourself, but it's true. Sometimes we have to have more serious messages. This is why I have these three Cs, conviction, clarity, and what I call coaching or self coaching. So conviction is really, you have to believe in what you're saying. And that often comes with telling your personal story, which may make you feel vulnerable. But I've had this experience with very serious, very technical, very brilliant.
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entrepreneurs. Someone that I worked with had this wonderful platform for teaching young kids to code. And he talked about how important that was and kids can learn this and that and hear all the bells and whistles. And I asked him, why did you develop this? He told me this story about how he was trying to teach his young child and his child was frustrated and he was frustrated. And not only was he not able to teach his kid to code, so he felt like a failure, but also he had this rift with his son.
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And we worked on this story and include it when he was pitching to investors. And that helped him show his own conviction for why this was so important because not only did it help him, but then he expanded it and helped other people and it can help many more. So it's the personal story. It's sharing a little bit of vulnerability. It's allowing people to connect with you as a human. Investors want to trust the person, the CEO, the entrepreneur, that you're going to.
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have the conviction and the resilience to make this product work. What he was doing was bigger than him. Yes, this social mission, exactly what we talked about at the beginning. And working with people who have that community, that societal goal is what motivates me too. So yes, in a way I'm starting out by helping one person, but I feel that I can contribute more by helping entrepreneurs or business leaders speak clearly, share their expertise and their voice and their business product or service.
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And it's a ripple effect. Anyone that thinks that they cannot take a stage, take a screen, like at a meeting, in presentations, it is learnable. It is teachable with practice, with tools. So conviction for me is first. That's number one. Clarity is the second thing. Clarity, and that's in two ways, both written and also when we are presenting. I think you've even said this. Sometimes we don't know how to capture the ideas, the expertise, even
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On my 49th speech, I was always writing too much. And then you have to hone and refine and clarify. I don't wanna say that there's a formula for how we can present information, but I think the way I often coach people is by saying, think about a book you read or a movie you watch. How does it start? How does it grab your attention? It's usually with some story, right? It's a specific thing that happens, an explosion.
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or something's happening in the shadows, or there's a sense of place and time, or something happens to an individual where there's an emotional connection. You're hooked. Tell a story, say something, ask a question that's going to engage people, and then have clear presentation with one, two, three, depending on how long you have to speak. Three points is a classic. The law of three. And it's funny because I resisted that at first. I thought, no, people have plenty of bandwidth for information.
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Because remember, it's the first time they hear your message. You know your stuff backwards. Give them time to digest. And also, more than three tends to be a little too much for something they're hearing for the first time. Exactly, because if they're so busy trying to understand what you said and then relate to their own lives or how it's gonna be valuable to them, you've moved on and they may still be at your first or second point and you're on your fourth or fifth.
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And that often will mean, depending on how much time you have to speak, that you're rushing or maybe you're fully exploring that point so that it's really going to resonate with people. There is a rule of three. I try to say that there isn't an absolute formula because then people feel hemmed in, but there's usually have some kind of energized engaging opener, have your points, let's say, and then when you close. Summarize them as well. And maybe each one should have a.
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a story that drives the point home, like you said. Yeah. Exactly. And also give them a way to have a takeaway. I often tell people that even the title of your speech matters, because that might be the thing that they remember, especially if you did it at the end. Pitch to win, right? Let's say I did a speech for entrepreneurs. Here's a way that you can learn how to pitch to win one, two, three points. Right now, you know, the way to pitch to win. It can start with the title. It can be.
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mentioned at the beginning, it's mentioned at the end, and it's a takeaway for people to say, okay, I don't remember half of what she said, but she said, here's what I need to know. To win. To win, right? How do we present our information clearly that it inspires people not only to engage while you're speaking, but then also remember it and ideally motivates them to act in some way, right? Right. Call to action. Action, call to action. And that's particularly true of people.
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are working, you know, let's say on a nonprofit or on a socially mission minded business. Let's sign up on our website where we code with kids on Saturday, 10am, something like that. Get parents to help the kids sign up or whatever. Exactly. Participate in this charity event. And again, because sometimes we're selling a business, sometimes we're just trying to pitch people to engage in their community. And so it's
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Come to join us for this nonprofit event or whatever it is, right? It's we want people to care while you're speaking. And then also when you're no longer speaking, but that they remember what you, how they made you feel. And that's, and so there's conviction, clarity. And then when I say coaching, and that's the skills and tools that we all can use when we are presenting. And it's gonna be a different toolkit for everybody.
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But it often is just understanding about eye contact, vocal variety, body language. And there are many, many tools. When I say coaching, it's the toolkit that we ourselves need to coach ourselves because we can gain lots of information from other people. But what is it that I need, especially when I started, would speak too fast. So I've learned about modulation and enunciation and more clear speaking.
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Some people, body language, they don't know what to do with their hands. And so you have to learn and then practice. But also you have the extreme of being theatrical. And I always say to people like, coach, listen, you are learning these tools. You will incorporate them, but keep your personality and be you. Don't be a copy of a Les Brown or a Tony Robbins or a John Max. So that's not what this is about. And, you know, it's really interesting that you say that because
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another secret through line in my life, which is very weird considering this fear of public speaking I had, was that I actually started dancing and being physical from a very young age in terms of started dancing when I was five, performing, competitive athletics, et cetera. So I used to be on stages and being out in public with physical things, but couldn't speak. So it was this weird thing. And I, even as an adult, I thought, how can I just get on stage and perform, but be terrified to speak?
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Well, I also spent decades working on all of these athletics and dance and all of those things. So as an adult, I realized, oh, I need to actually work on the speaking and the communicating in the same way, with the same enthusiasm and commitment. So I have had a few more years now, and now I realize truthfully how important the physicality is, how your body matters in terms of how you use it.
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Whatever that strong emotion is that is holding you back, it's manifest with the shaky hands and all that. And I realized, for example, you mentioned Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins is an amazing, inspiring motivator, and I've participated in some of his workshops, et cetera. And it's very interesting because it get people enthusiastic about what they're about to do if you need that enthusiasm. Some people like, oh, I'm just not a speaker, blah, blah, blah, and they need that enthusiasm.
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But sometimes what I realized is if you're on the other end of the spectrum, you've got so much adrenaline, so much energy, you're panicked and freaking out and you're trembling and all of the shaky knees and all of those things, then you need to actually control that energy. So I think that there are these physical things you can do that dancers and athletes do and shake off the energy. And it actually is a physiological thing. You are, you're controlling that.
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and you're not completely getting rid of the adrenaline entirely. You're just harnessing it and channeling it because you still do want energy as a speaker. Of course. You're just not letting it debilitate you so that you can carry the mission forward. Exactly. Exactly. All of the athletic training is finally merging with the public speaking training. Now, whether or not someone is an athlete or not, they're going to bring in their own skillset and needs to figure out what coaching they need.
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As a lot of people have had to go on screen more, one of the biggest challenges is, how do I make it clear that I'm looking at someone? This is something one of my previous guests shared with me, which shocked me too. He said, did you know that Michael Jackson was afraid to go on stage? Yeah. It is amazing, actually, many famous people. I watch talk shows to see how the talk show hosts handle it and how the guests handle it. Right. I've heard of talk show hosts that say over and over again,
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We're fine here when we're just chit chatting on air in front of a million people, but we're terrified to speak in public. So everybody's afraid, but you can still learn to be in the zone and then as necessary come out of that zone. Right. I always think about how Beyonce used to say that she's so fierce. She created a persona. Exactly. Creating a persona. So that's what we were talking about when we were like as an introvert.
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you don't have to become completely an extrovert. Sometimes we have to create a persona, even if it's to speak in front of our work team or at a conference. And maybe it's not gonna be Sasha Fierce, but it's gonna be, okay, this is Linda, the confident speaker, because I believe in what I'm saying. I'm connecting with people so that we can have this resonance that other people hopefully will learn or be inspired or...
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Not necessarily by me or my story, but maybe just that we're in a room for like-minded people. And when they hear your story, they can think to themselves, I can take one step forward just to see where this might lead after listening to your going from literally not speaking at all. After that first incident of being so afraid you had laryngitis that morning, did anything happen afterwards? I had to keep presenting, but I was...
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so humiliated. I was afraid to look at my colleagues. This was before I got into practicing public speaking skills. You know, I held myself back in terms of taking on opportunities, leadership opportunities, and speaking opportunities. It was really a very difficult thing. And of course, when you're down on yourself, you're not your best self. Once I started speaking in public about my own public speaking fear and working with other people, you hear again and again
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I'm afraid of people judging me. I'm afraid this speaks to me. I work with as many people as possible. I mean, I have clients, but I also mentor many people, just volunteer, because I know how destructive that can be. It doesn't just stop us from speaking in public. Sometimes it destroys our confidence so much that we can't do a lot of things. Even our personal relationships suffer. Your communication skills will improve.
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your professional and personal life. That is so true. In fact, sometimes maybe the most important thing that we learn when we learn about public speaking is how are we communicating with the one or few people that are closest to us? That's the most important, even though of course we think, oh, public speaking is so that I can advance in my career. But maybe it's so that I can have clear, more meaningful relationships.
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which makes us human. You know what I mean? And I completely agree. And you know what's interesting? On a lighter note, just as we're talking about this, I'm also realizing that once I started getting into this idea of articulating what I had to say, or just engaging with other people, almost every day I connect with someone verbally, whether I'm at a store and it's a stranger, or I'll compliment someone, whatever it is, to engage with people, communicate in a positive way. Right? Right.
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in your sphere of influence. Exactly. To put a smile on someone's face. Sometimes that's the only good thing that hurt that day. Yes, right. Looking in someone's eyes or, hey, you know, making a joke on an aisle at the supermarket while we're waiting or the coffee shop or at the drug store or on the train or something like that. Communication makes us human, especially trying to share something positive. Right.
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Have you ever had that experience where you're just talking to a stranger and you have this amazing conversation that happened over the weekend? And I just thought, you know, in the old days, I would have gone to this social event and I would have sat there and I would have listened, but I would often stay out of conversations. But now I was so interested in what someone was talking about. He was an entrepreneur and I started asking questions of how does this work and how do you help these people and how do you educate them? And so all my natural curiosity was something that I could share.
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And by sharing my curiosity, I don't have to have expertise even, right? Just sharing my curiosity helps this person feel heard and seen. And it comes back to you. Look how beautifully that comes back to you when you actually start engaging other people. Yeah. You personally feel good. Not only because I engaged with someone, but I learned I was stimulated. Yeah. It's nourishing. Oh my gosh. That's a perfect word. Nourishing. Communication, conversation.
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It's nourishing. It's a beautiful way to refer to it. Emotional and mental. Look how many times you talk about mental health and how this isolation because of the pandemic, there's no connection. Couldn't have said it better myself. I think that you really have pinpointed, particularly in these last couple of years, even if people felt afraid of public speaking before. Now I think it's even worse because a lot of people have spent so much time indoors.
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And maybe they've gone back to work, but they're uneasy, or maybe they're staying in their own offices, or they're just not engaging as much socially. So I think that this kind of skill, which for a long time has been called a soft skill, I think it should be taught as much as anything else from a young age.
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not just reserved for the debate team. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. I mean, if you think about now with kids in mental distress or emotional distress, but not feeling they know how to or where they can articulate their distress and then growing into adults who don't know how to share what's important to them if they're suffering or if they have something wonderful to share, just take that step. Maybe, you know, there are lots of opportunities, free courses or different kinds of things where if they look at Eventbrite or various things, just
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to see what it's about. Maybe they're too afraid to speak right away. But to see what it's about. Dip your toe in the water, see what it's like. Because you might find even some of the fears you had, some of the things you've been telling yourself, it's not even as scary as you might've thought. And as soon as someone goes into an event, maybe online or in person, and they see one other person, if not five or 10 or 20, who all share that same challenge,
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And hopefully you can commit to continuing to go and then eventually start talking and learning the skills and tools, the coaching that we talked about. So I know this from personal pain that it can be debilitating, but I also know that with practice and the right skills and tools that it is something that just about anyone can overcome. I've worked with and I've seen people who have speech impediments, no experience. I've started with people who have never written a speech before.
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Maybe not everyone's going to be a motivational speaker, but you can certainly become a little bit more comfortable. So many jobs require you to go present at potential customers' office and tell them what we do. So you cannot say, oh, I'm afraid to speak, boss. I'm sorry, please speak to someone else. We were talking earlier about leadership as well. You said you had to give up some leadership roles after realizing how afraid you were of speaking in public.
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I held myself back in particular because when I was invited to do other kinds of leadership roles, leading a team or a committee or to speak on a panel or to lead a panel, I said no. And so this leadership opportunity, I felt uncomfortable. I felt people wouldn't believe me or would judge me that I wasn't able to speak confidently in front of them. And so therefore I didn't deserve to be a leader. So it's so true that a lot of times people think public speaking.
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is about getting up and speaking in front of 300 people. But it's so much more, and including feeling that you can step up in your career, or even in the community, that you can be a community leader, that you can organize people to a positive goal. A social mission. Social mission, yeah. One of the things that I did during my experience and career,
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working with food and health experts. When I heard about the food insecurity during early parts of the pandemic, I was so motivated that I thought, I don't know, I'm one person, you know, yes, I can go. And I did volunteer at nonprofit charities and things like that. But I also use my skillset. And I wrote articles about do something, whatever it is, whatever your skillset is, allow yourself to think of yourself as a leader and then use the whatever skills you have and then think about how important.
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speaking to other people is, and that will connect you to your leadership goals. Whatever it is that someone feels like they can't step out of, let's say, a following role and into the leadership realm, speaking is so important. You want to share your voice and you want other people to be heard and seen and you want to help them. So you have to start from a place of caring and conviction, and that can often help elevate people out of fear and anxiety of speaking.
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when they really believe in their message and how it's going to impact others. Then you really have the conviction and it's easier to go into writing something that's clear and then finding out those coaching tools that you need to be on stage or to be in a screen to share what your knowledge is or the calls to action that you want people to take. We all have our own path. It's a never-ending skill set to develop.
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Honestly, I think the biggest takeaway is that almost no one is born with it. No. And the thing is there's so many opportunities to use this. So develop the skill anyway. It's not about the job or you being a motivational speaker in your daily life, no matter which corner you turn to, you're going to need it. So develop the skill for your own benefit. And most importantly, we want to connect as humans. And it's never too late.
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I started it late in my career, late in my life, and I'm excited about it. I know that I'm going to use these skills in so many ways, whether it's connecting with strangers or working with a team, working with clients, helping social missions in my community. It can make us feel connected in so many ways. Thank you, Linda and Groya for your
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powerful transformational message on the importance of public speaking. Any last words of my pleasure. Sorry. Any last words of wisdom? Don't give up. I say this to entrepreneurs, but I also say this to anyone who is concerned about a fear or anxiety of public speaking. Put one foot in front of the other, one word in front of the other, one sentence in front of the other.
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And believe, it starts with the belief that you can be a speaker, a public speaker, that you have something to share, that you have a voice, that you have a message, whether it's your business or that you had a personal life experience that you had to overcome and you wanna connect with other people. People need to hear our stories. Don't give up, keep trying, keep learning, keep sharing. Hopefully our stories don't end until.
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the end, right? So for sure. What story are we building, creating every day? And that starts by believing that we have something to share and trying. Words of wisdom from Linda in Groya about being a social mission minded entrepreneur. If you are thinking that what you do is just about you, try and think again. If you have a mission bigger than yourself, Linda is here to help you tell your story.
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Thank you so much. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review. Just remember, no matter where you are in life, you can always develop the skills to be a public speaker. Please, can you tell us your social media handles? Well, I think the best way to reach me would be either through LinkedIn, Linda Ingroia. That's I-N-G-R-O-I-A. A little hard to write and say, but it's Ingroia. And also via my website, which is headstrongbranding.com.
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And I am also a little bit on Instagram under Linda Ti and Twitter, Linda Ingroia, but I would say LinkedIn and my website at the best ways to reach me. Thank you again. Thank you for being on the show. I really enjoyed talking to you.