Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Today, I have the privilege of being joined by Stephanie Gerke, who is from Berlin, Germany, and she joins us today to talk about how to overcome people-pleasing.
00:28
I know so many who suffer from this disease, and she's going to teach us exactly what it is that she does. And before I go any further, please help me welcome Stephanie. Hi. Thank you so much, Roberta. Wow, I think it's so great that you say it's an addiction. I know so many people. I guess in my 20s as well, I did suffer from it. Part of growing up and the benefits of getting older is that it starts to be less and less if you are aware of it.
00:56
But before we go into the deeper stuff, please tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, thank you so much. So I'm a former art historian, changed my career five years ago to become a life coach because I was so burned out from not being able to say no. So I thought this was a great topic for your podcast because so much of what happened to me had to do with.
01:21
not being able to communicate in a way that would have been good for me. So instead of sometimes saying, Hey, I kind of need some rest or I'm overwhelmed or I'm so sorry, but I can't go to the sing with you because I have to recharge my batteries tonight. I did everything anyone ever asked me to do basically. And I really suffered from trying to juggle all the balls before becoming a life coach.
01:51
I worked at a university in Berlin and I was a lecturer in art history, wrote my PhD and I had a company for art and architecture tours with two of my best friends. So obviously this was already too much. It was a lot in and of itself. It was too much, but also being such a people pleaser in my twenties and early thirties.
02:16
I just didn't know how to balance all this in a way that would have been good for me. We had a lot of fun also in those days, but I spent a lot of time doing things that weren't really mine or that I didn't really initiate, really truly want to do. Like getting approached by my boss with another project that sounded kind of cool, but it also sounded like a lot of work and nothing that...
02:43
someone really had to do. And of course I would say yes, because I wanted to be a great employee or with the tour company, just going to all these openings every night to see gallery shows all the time. It was so much, there was so much going on. And I'm a highly sensitive person, which a lot of people pleasers are. So I gather a lot of information when I enter a room, there's a lot of overwhelm, but I didn't know how to say.
03:12
No, thank you. And I had to learn that. Yeah, the hard way actually, because at some point I couldn't go on like this. So I had to drastically change something and I had some coaching myself. I was really surprised by how scared I had been to look at my own stuff and how liberating it actually was to do so and to find out that there was nothing
03:41
really super bad, hiding below all those layers of trying to please everyone, instead discovering what it was that I actually wanted to do and learning ways to communicate that. And that was so powerful for me and now I want to help other people get that too because it's so liberating. Life is so much more fun when you don't try to always please everyone, be yourself and meet your own needs.
04:09
but also at the same time have very, very close relationships with others. What do you think is the root cause of people pleasing? The root cause of people pleasing in my opinion is negative self-belief that I am not enough. I'm not enough the way that I am. So I need to be something else. I need to please others for them to like me.
04:36
That is never true, but that's the core belief at the center of you always trying to bend over backwards for others. Do we start adopting those beliefs in childhood or as we grow older and become adults, thinking it's going to get us what we want to please people? There's probably a little bit of maybe some genetics, for example, people pleasing.
05:06
and high sensitivity go hand in hand. High sensitivity is something that is already present, probably, when you come into this world. But there's also, of course, you growing up with your parents or caretakers or whoever raised you, maybe not conveying to you this belief that you are just enough the way that you are.
05:32
know, and that can be very unconscious. You know, your parents probably or your caretakers probably did the best that they could. Of course, of course, not in every case, but most of the time the caretakers try really hard to do everything right. But I grew up in the 80s. It wasn't really well known that, you know, maybe some people were a little bit more sensitive or maybe that was known because it was obvious.
06:00
but not how to deal with that. There is such a way to handle very sensitive kids, for example, in order to honor their sensitivity and honor their needs and to convey to them that they might be feeling a little bit more intensely than non highly sensitive people, but that's completely okay and that that's completely normal. So that kind of instills in kids this belief
06:29
they are not okay the way that they are. And that makes you then very susceptible to grow these antennas that go outwards to the people around you. And you figure out, okay, this person likes it best when I behave or this person likes it best when I'm not too loud. I should rather be quiet. You develop these antennas that go out to other people.
06:57
and you gather a lot of information that give you feedback. How am I loved? How am I most loved? That turns you into a people pleaser. It's actually kind of manipulative. Of course not with a negative intention, you know, because the kid just wants to be loved and doesn't want to be alone because it's dependent on other people. And as a grown-up...
07:24
It's kind of the same when you people please, you are not being your authentic, honest self, but you are kind of trying to become the version of you that would be lovable to the person in front of you. It's fear of not getting the love you thought you wouldn't unless you people please. Exactly. The famous saying, you teach people how to treat you.
07:52
So when you operate from there, you are basically saying, every time I deal with Stephanie, this is how I'm going to be in order to get the acceptance, the love from her that I'm looking for. So I've actually taught you that. Exactly. Yeah, we teach people how to treat us. That's so true. And I think it's always so great to look at what do we have? What do we bring to the table?
08:22
and what do we embody that we can actually work with. So when I coach people, we do a kind of status quo of what am I feeling right now? What kind of feelings do I usually feel? And how are they connected to my needs? Because every feeling communicates to us a certain need that is met or not met.
08:47
like a very basic human need is connection, right? Connection to other people. Yes. When we feel insecure or we feel like a connection isn't really stable, then we might try to bend over backwards to get that need met of having that connection. And when we get more stable and more secure and more in tune with our needs and our feelings, then we learn.
09:15
we can be ourselves and communicate in a way that is authentic and from the heart and still loving and we can still be lovable even though we might not do everything that a person expects us to do. I hear what you're saying and I agree and I'm wondering if that's the reason dating has become so tricky because mostly the reason is so frustrating you have this I will put my
09:45
foot a little bit in, but be cautious. Because I'm afraid to get hurt. I'm afraid to not get what I'm hoping for. I'm afraid that this person, I might have to manipulate them into accepting me and dating me long-term unless I do these things. Yeah. I do have a very loving relationship now, but I used to...
10:13
not really know what a stable, loving, romantic relationship was. I always chose people who were either very emotionally unavailable or very far away, or something else that was in the way of having a very close, intimate, romantic relationship. And the last relationship I was in before this one actually was what you would call a toxic relationship.
10:40
with me people pleasing and being codependent. The guy had some kind of narcissistic tendencies, self-absorbed, basically everything always centered around him. And I'm not saying that this is his fault. It was a dynamic that was difficult because I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know who I was. So I chose someone who knew exactly what they wanted and needed and catered to them all the time.
11:10
This was something that I unconsciously chose subconsciously. Yes, they say subconsciously because you attract who you are. Yeah, exactly. This last relationship went so bad that I at some point said, okay, no more of this. I need something completely different. Well, I went through coaching myself and it was so revolutionary for me. Something I learned.
11:37
that I think is relevant for everyone out there is really to factor in how I feel in my body when I'm communicating with someone. I worked in academia and I worked with my brain the whole time and I was very cerebral and very focused on thoughts and on ideas and concepts.
12:03
It was kind of revolutionary for me to realize that feelings inhabit the body and that the body is such a great tool for realizing how I feel exactly and what's going on in my body, because I go into situations not just with my brain, but also with my body, right? So what I do with my clients as well is try to get them back into their body, try to get them back in.
12:31
touch with how they're feeling and how their feelings show up in conversations with people. When you do that while dating, you have so much more information than what the person is saying to you. You have information about how am I feeling? Is this person making me comfortable or uncomfortable? Is this person making me feel relaxed or anxious? Or not is this person making me, but
13:00
just simply, am I feeling relaxed right now or anxious in this conversation? You have all those signs and little things that your body also picks up on that your brain might not even register. But when you realize, okay, I have a body and this body is a tool and it gives me information, you have so much more to go on than just what your brain is telling you.
13:26
It's so ironic to me that this idea of listening to your body, listening to your feelings is so revolutionary right now when this is all you should have been doing. Exactly. I know. But for some reason, a lot of us, we get very, very disconnected from our own bodies. And this is true, especially for people pleasers, because they have the antennas.
13:55
going outwards to everyone else, right? So you try to guess what is this person thinking? What is this other person expecting me to do right now? What is their mood and how can I make them feel better? Right, so you have all your attention going outwards. So you have no more capacity to actually realize what is going on with me, you know, how I'm feeling. What do I need right now?
14:24
For some people, this disconnect is very, very strong. And when you can connect again to your body and to the sensations and to the feelings that your body is trying to communicate to you, it's very, very powerful. It just feels so much better. Your life just feels better because you are in it with your body, not just with your head. As you say, we must learn how to communicate our feelings.
14:53
how we authentically feel about a situation. And I must say to you, Stephanie, I am not okay with this and I must learn to say no and use the right language. But how can I do that if I don't even take time to check how I feel? Exactly. Yeah. So that is also one thing that I think every listener who might have people-pleasing tendencies can use as a small tool before answering
15:23
anything, any request, any invitation, any suggestion or something like that. Take one breather, like just inhale and exhale. Check in with your body very quickly. Do I really want to do this or am I just feeling obliged to do this or do I think I want to do this?
15:49
because I should want to do this, but I don't really want to do it. So that's like one suggestion that I have for people to not answer right away, to not be in this automated mode. Like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we can do that. Yeah. Sure. I'll take on this new project. Yeah. I'll come to dinner with you, even though I don't know any of those people and don't really feel like it. So you don't have to do all those things.
16:17
So I think a lot of people pleasers are scared that if they say no, or if they say what they really think, the relationship might get damaged. Romantic, friendship, relationship with family, work, relationship. There's a great fear that relationships will get damaged. Sometimes that's true when the relationship dynamic depends on you.
16:45
always ignoring your own needs, then you honoring your own needs might actually, yes, damage that relationship. But other relationships will actually get stronger and more authentic and deeper when you communicate what you actually feel and think and want to say. And it's amazing to see how much more loved you will feel when you actually show your true self.
17:16
If you are in a relationship and the burden is on you to keep it going with your people pleasing, like I said, it's a burden. It's up to you only and yet it should be a two-way street. Isn't that being in like a fake relationship so to speak? You're not really in a relationship authentically as you are. Your people pleasing is the foundation that keeps that relationship together.
17:42
Exactly. Is that the kind of relationship that you want? As you say, a two-sided street, is it balanced? Does it make you happy? Do you get your needs met in that relationship? Probably not, if it's based on people pleasing. It can be very, very hard to change the steps of that dance, but always realize that a relationship is something between two people.
18:11
And if you change your steps of the dance, and if you actually look at what you want and what you need, learn to communicate that in a way that is still loving and still honoring this relationship, you might be surprised how the other person can sometimes adapt and learn to change their steps of the dance as well. And if they don't...
18:37
Well, then you have more information to go on and to base your decision on whether or not you want to continue this relationship. But it always starts with you. So I think there's a real danger for people pleasers to end up in relationships where they care so much about the other person and where they actually enable unhealthy behavior in the other person. It's called codependent behavior. So the other person might be dependent on something.
19:06
substances or unhealthy lifestyle or whatever. And you as a people pleaser, you try so much to make it work for them that you actually enable them to have this unhealthy behavior. A lot of times in those unhealthy relationships, you blame the other person then for things that are not working. You say, well, I'm doing everything I can to help you.
19:34
but you are still not healthy or doing this or being a good partner or whatever. Actually, the way to go about it is to kind of in a way mind your own business, but with love, to look inward, to look at yourself instead of pointing fingers to others, to point the finger at yourself and ask yourself, what is it in me that I am choosing these kinds of relationships? And...
20:02
how can I get to know myself better? I always say like getting to know yourself better is the foundation for living a better, healthier, more fun and more loving life. Because when you know yourself well, this is the foundation for having a life that you actually like, right? If you know what you want, if you know what you need. For example, I love one-on-one conversations. Meeting one person, one friend.
20:32
and having a deep long conversation with them. Sometimes I also love group settings, but more so one-on-one conversations. But it also drains me a little bit because I'm very empathetic and I feel a lot of energies from others. I also meditate or do yoga every day to kind of stay connected to myself. I've found a way now to live a kind of life that suits me.
21:01
and that makes me happy and that accommodates me as a whole person. But before I got to know myself so well, I was living this kind of life that I thought was needed at the moment or that I thought others expected me to lead. And that's not, there is a way to find real great, intimate, awesome, authentic relationships with others without you having to.
21:30
bend over backwards and become a person that you're actually not. Yes. The work starts inward. Tell us three key things that you really dive into when you are coaching a client who's trying to overcome people-pleasing. So three key things are really, first of all, to find example situations.
21:53
that you recently experienced where you felt like you actually wanted to say no to something, but you couldn't really. You actually wanted to say something else because you were kind of afraid to say what you really wanted to say. When you dive into those examples, the next step is then to figure out what was driving your decision to change what you were actually saying.
22:21
Often it's a fear, so the next step is to find out what that fear is. What are you afraid of that might happen when you actually communicate authentically? It's often a fear of ending up alone, not being connected to anyone. Speaking about that fear already makes it seem so much smaller and makes it almost go away.
22:45
because when you actually say it out loud, it's like, okay, that's ridiculous. I'm not going to end up alone, but still this fear is strong and it's very active inside of us. With almost every client, it's this kind of fear that's driving them. And then we try to find a kind of expression or words that they could have used in that moment and that they can use in the next situation that comes up.
23:13
that feels good to them, that feels true, that feels authentic, that doesn't feel scary, and that makes them feel relieved or happy or relaxed. So we try to tackle that fear by looking it straight in the eye and balancing it out with some calm, some ease, some happiness or lightness. So the fourth component is to locate these feelings in the body.
23:43
So it's really about checking, okay, when you were in that situation and you were scared of ending up alone or damaging this relationship, how did that feel in your body? Then the next time that happens, you will remember, oh, I have this lump in my throat again or tightness in my chest again, which indicates that I actually really want to say something, but I'm scared of saying it.
24:12
And then when that happens, you now have the way of saying it because we've practiced it in the coaching session. Of course, in the beginning, it might feel weird or you might feel scared because it's new and it's maybe outside of your comfort zone or it's maybe out of character for you in the beginning. Or anything that's new is scary. You're going to have the triggers again. You're going to feel the way you used to when you even.
24:41
think of the idea of saying no. Exactly. Yeah. And I always work with little mindfulness exercises with my clients. So they learn these coping techniques to calm the nervous system down and to, you know, something that you can do in every situation that you're in, because it's not weird or not inappropriate at all is to just take one breath. Your breath is always with you. So you can always use that as a tool to calm down.
25:11
system and that helps a lot. We've had three episodes focusing on the breath. Actually the first one was was it entitled your breath is your superpower? Totally yeah I agree. Yeah those are four key things that I work on with my clients when they want to learn how to say no without damaging their relationships and it's working wonders it's really cool to see how
25:37
people then grow and develop their own versions of no, because none of my clients are going to be some super unfriendly version of themselves. That's not what this is about. Because lots of my clients see themselves as very nice people and that's just my character. I always say to them, you don't need to be a bitch or rude. You don't need to do that.
26:05
but actually what you're doing sometimes is lying to people. The fake relationships, yes. Fake relationships and you're not being authentic and you think you're being nice but you're actually being rude to yourself and to the other person because when you always hide your own needs or your own feelings, resentment at some point will come up. And that's not nice.
26:32
That's not nice at all. And that might turn into very passive, aggressive behavior and very indirect communication where the other person is then gonna go like, huh, where did that come from? That was totally uncalled for. Because you just blew up. Yeah, exactly. You blow up or you slam the door or something like that without actually communicating authentically, truly what you wanted to say.
26:59
Stephanie, so many people need this. Adults are children in big bodies. Some of us are still those children who are people-queezing, trying to be nice, thinking it will get us what we want. So this has been a very transformational conversation. Thank you so much for coming to our show. I'm so glad I was able to speak here. Thank you so much for inviting me. And before you go, where do we find you to speak more about people-queezing?
27:29
Yeah, so I have a website Stephaniegerke.coach. So that's Gerke is G-E-R-K-E, it's a German name. And I have a weekly newsletter about people pleasing. So if any of this resonated with you, it's a weekly little inspirational story with a little takeaway insight for people pleasers. And it's in English. So you can subscribe to my newsletter if you want.
27:58
And I'm also pretty active right now on LinkedIn. And I am trying to be more active on Instagram as well. Awesome. Thank you very much. Stephanie Gerke from Germany, who is changing the world one person at a time by helping us overcome the addiction of people pleasing. By the end of this episode, please remember to subscribe, give a rating and a review. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Roberta. It was a pleasure being here.