Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please remember to subscribe, give a rating and a review. Today, I am joined by Doug Noll. He is an author, trainer, speaker, former lawyer and peacemaker.
00:28
And I believe that we do need more peacemakers in the world. And before I go any further, please help me to welcome Doug. Hello. Hello, Roberta. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here. I'm excited about our conversation. Like I said, there's so much not so peaceful stuff going on. And so we do need peacemakers. But before we get into that, tell us a little bit about yourself. I grew up in Southern California, went back to Dartmouth College. And after college, came back to California and went to law school.
00:58
After law school, I moved to central California where I developed a very successful career as a trial lawyer. And I did that for 22 years. In mid-career, I made the decision to go back to school, enter in my master's degree in peacemaking and conflict studies, and ultimately left my law practice in 2000 to become a peacemaker and a mediator. In 2005, I was mediating a very difficult dispute.
01:22
and I didn't know what to do. And all of a sudden a thought came to me about how to solve this very intractable emotional problem between these people and it worked. I mean, it was amazing how well it worked. And I'd never heard of anything like this before. I just sort of invented it on the spot. And two years later, a narrow imaging study came out from UCLA that showed what happens in the brain when you do this thing called affect labeling. So now I have the science to support my own observations of how to calm angry people down.
01:50
So I began teaching these skills, it booked to my graduate students, and I would do workshops and speak at conferences. And in 2009, I got a call from my dear friend and colleague, Laurel Coffert, who's a lawyer, mediator in Los Angeles, who read a letter from a woman who was serving a life sentence without possibility of parole in the largest, most violent women's prison in the world, Valley State Prison for Women at that time, asking if Laurel would come in and teach the women how to be mediators and peacemakers so they could stop prison violence.
02:20
And Laurel asked me, what do you think? And I said, I think we should do this. April of 2010, we started training our first cohort of 15 women. And that's how the Prison of Peace project started. And all the skills that I had been developing up till that time, we put into our curriculum and acid tested them, training thousands and thousands of inmates how to be peacemakers and mediators. And today Prison of Peace is international. We're in 15 California prisons, prisons in Connecticut. We're gonna start programming Colorado. We are in 14 prisons in Greece.
02:49
We're in Italy, Nairobi, Denmark. So it's beginning to expand worldwide. Wow. My question is, when they learn to have these mediation skills, how does it help them while in prison? Do they feel like it benefits them or they just think, I'm here anyway until however long or for the rest of my life, why do I need to learn a certain skill like mediation? Well, our students come to us because they're tired of prison violence.
03:17
And if they're going to be living in prison all their lives, they want to live in a safe, quiet, violence-free environment, just like everybody else. Right. And so they want skills that work that they can use to stop the violence and to stop arguments and fights from erupting into violence and make their communities peaceful places to live, even though it's behind prisons. That's really their motivation. They get a lot more out of it than just that. But really, they move from serving life sentences to living a life of service in terms of helping all of their...
03:46
other community members not to resort to violence when they're in a conflict of some kind. And unfortunately for many people in prison, that's the only conflict resolution method they know is violence. Right. We've seen it a lot in movies and TV shows. Yeah. Those aren't particularly accurate. But they do. At least they claim to be. Yeah, they do. But these people all crave peace, just like the rest of us do. And when I teach them, my colleagues, I teach them skills that allow them to find peace without violence.
04:16
They love it. They adopt it immediately and start practicing it. And it changes the entire community that they live in. Just like you said, we all want to live in a peaceful environment. I don't know how it is in the neighborhood you live in, but I find that whether you go shopping, whether you're in the street, getting on a bus, there's just always somebody that's angry or provoke someone and everything just blows up what is going on.
04:42
Have we always been that way or it's just that we see it on social media now and everything just goes viral? I think certainly social media has amplified the incivility that we see, but incivility has been growing for a long time in this country. And it's due to a lot of reasons. Part of it's a breakdown in our educational system. Part of it is that we live in a very complex society and we're not training ourselves how to live in a complex society.
05:08
Up until 100 years ago, it was okay not to have emotional competency because 99% of the people lived on a farm. You were a working unit of the farm and getting along meant just going out and doing the work and surviving. Well, we started urbanizing, but we never learned how to really work with each other in close proximity. And then you've got all the political polarization that is very triggering for people. And we've had lots of economic ups and downs over the last 20 years, 30 years.
05:36
So there's been very little economic stability. All of these are just stressors on people. There are fewer educated people today than there were 20 years ago. And then you throw in the pandemic, people are shut in for 24 months and they're not having any social interactions. Whatever social skills they have, they lose them. And we have role models, political role models in particular, who believe in bad behavior and they model bad behavior. And that means that people think, well, that's the way I should be. If you've got bad people leading, then good people are gonna turn bad.
06:04
because they're gonna model themselves after their leaders. So it's all these different factors. You can't point to any one thing. Just a lot of factors come together. A lot of us adults are children in big bodies. We are. However we behave, it must have started in childhood, whether you had a sibling and you fought over toys or you learned to share, is what we are witnessing now just little kids in big bodies throwing tantrums on parking lots and shops. Absolutely.
06:33
Many, many people stop their emotional development at around six years old. And the reason for that is because that's around the time when they start learning that they don't live in an emotionally safe environment. So their family is not emotionally safe. So to protect themselves, they start shutting down. They put on a facade on the outside, but on the inside, they feel unworthy, they feel shame. They have all these emotions that they have to repress because they're told day after day after day, don't be a sissy, don't be a girly girl, big girls don't cry, put on your big girl panties.
07:03
They're constantly told not to feel emotions. You know, you get 18 years of that and you're gonna be an emotional mess. And that's what happens to many, many, many, many people. Now they become adults and they wonder why they can't have a good relationship with another person. They wonder why they can't handle conflict at work. They wonder why their boss is such a jerk. You're asking why is all this conflict and fighting and arguing and going on around? And it's because as you pointed out, they're all six-year-olds and adult bodies who have never learned how to be emotionally competent adults.
07:32
I'm not a parent, but I always feel like they do the hardest job in the world. And unfortunately, it doesn't come with a manual. So if you're a parent and you have kids and they turn six, is there anything afterwards that you should actively be doing in developing that emotional skill? Absolutely. You've got to become an emotional coach. What parents don't realize parents typically are fairly young in their 20s, maybe into their early thirties. And as you point out, there's no handbook about this.
08:00
but they don't study developmental psychology. And they don't understand that a child's emotional brain starts to mature at about 18 months of age. And over the next 16 years or so, go through a bunch of developmental processes. What happens the way that most many, many people raise children now is that emotional development stops at six years old, because parents not being emotionally competent themselves invalidate their children emotionally. So if a child goes out and runs around and falls and scrapes his knee,
08:30
The child is told to stop crying. That doesn't hurt. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. It's not a big deal. You'll be fine. The parents get upset at their children when they become emotional. Worst thing you can do for your kids. The proper practice is to validate your children's emotions. So you've got a six-year-old who's crying. You say, oh, Roberta, you're really upset. You're crying. You don't feel loved right now. And you hurt. And you don't feel safe. And you're anxious and worried.
08:54
and you just tell the child what the child's emotions are. You label the child's emotions. It's called affect labeling. Every time you do that, you help that child's brain develop properly. And what the research shows is that if you start this from the very beginning of birth, label the child's emotions, even though emotions don't form until about 18 months of age. By the time the child is 12, there'll be two or three grade levels ahead of their peers academically. There's a direct correlation between emotional development and academic performance.
09:21
And what is the difference between the child expressing their emotions and saying, I don't like this toy and they throw it away and the parents saying, honey, you know, if you don't like your toy, say it nicely. And does that work? No, we know it doesn't work. What would work to say, honey, you're really frustrated and you're really mad and you're tired and you're hungry and you don't feel loved right now and you feel a little distressed.
09:49
and the child will go, yeah, that's what I feel. Validation. Then you go validate, and then you go, okay, so what do we need to do to help you? What do you need right now? Now you're empowering the child to make a choice. Validate and empower. We talk a lot about the workplace on this podcast. Will the same tools work in a workplace setting if there's conflict? Absolutely. Supposing you got a boss that's yelling at you. Label the boss's emotions.
10:17
Brody, you're really pissed off. You're really angry. You're frustrated. You're annoyed. You feel like you're completely ignored. Feel like everybody's disrespecting you. You're anxious because your performance is being graded on how the team does. And when people don't perform the way you want, you get really anxious that you're gonna look bad. And you feel embarrassed and you're sad and you feel abandoned and betrayed by everyone. Do I not risk losing my job if I say that to my boss and help him articulate his feelings? Because what happens is your boss will be so grateful that you have validated the emotions.
10:46
that you will build instant loyalty and trust. That's how powerful this is. Validation, like they say, our human needs are being heard, being seen, and being validated. It all goes back to validation. Emotional validation. You said you have a three-step process when it comes to conflict resolution. Would you like to take us through that? Sure. Take any angry situation. It could be a three-year-old or it could be your boss. It could be anybody. Your intimate partner, it doesn't matter. First thing you're gonna do is ignore the angry words. Those words don't mean anything. Just ignore them.
11:16
It's white noise. You've heard it all before. There's nothing new here. And if you ignore the words, you won't get triggered and you don't wanna get triggered. So just ignore it. Yeah, they're shouting. I've heard it all just before, no big deal. Step number two, you are going to read this angry person's emotions. I call it reading their emotional data fields. When people are emotional, they project emotions and not just one emotion. Usually it's a number of emotions, as many as six or seven emotions all at the same time. We have the innate ability in our brains to read other people's emotions with great accuracy.
11:45
and very quickly and efficiently. We just don't use that skill because we've been taught that rationality is the emotions are bad. So we never developed this innate skill we have. But if you just sit in silence with an empty mind, empty your thoughts and just observe for a second, your brain will start processing what the emotions are and they'll start popping into your consciousness. And now what you do is you simply reflect back that angry person's emotions with a you statement. Roberto, you're really angry, man. You are really pissed off.
12:12
You structure the emotions through these layers, six layers of motion, and you just basically work through the layers until four things happen. One, you get a nodding of the head, yeah. Yes, I am, dad, I'm pissed off. Yeah, or exactly, yeah, I'm pissed off. And then you get a dropping of the shoulders and an exhalation, a sigh of relief. Those are the four unconscious responses that show that the brain has calmed down, you've calmed the person down. And it works on every single human brain anywhere on the planet because all human brains are the same and they're all hardwired the same way.
12:40
And it works unconsciously. The angry person won't even know what you're doing, for the most part. Is this the reason when couples fight, one person leaves the house to go and come down? Because after a screaming match, they realize, if this escalates further, it could just go very south. Is that the same thing? No? When people leave an argument, it's because they don't have the skills to deal with the emotionality in that moment. And so they would rather run from the argument.
13:08
than continue to be in a painful situation. But Doug, aren't they trying to prevent themselves from taking a glass and throwing it against the wall? Okay, so if that's all you can do, you're right, leaving is better than breaking something. Right. But that's all unnecessary. If you simply learn how to listen to emotions, you'll never get angry yourself. You'll never get upset. If I look at you, Roberta, as an emotional being, not as a rational being, and you get angry at me, I have compassion for you. You're just having an emotional moment.
13:38
And you may be yelling at me, probably not my fault. And you're just yelling at me. You're having an emotional moment. Let me help you. So I'm gonna validate your emotional experience. I'm gonna do affect label, ignore the words, read the emotions, reflect back the emotions to you, until you calm down, about 90 seconds. And when you calm down, then we're gonna talk about what's so upsetting. And I'm gonna be cool and composed and compassionate and have no fear and no anxiety and just sit and create a loving safe space for you to be whatever you have to be in that moment.
14:05
All sounds perfect, but how much of the population is like you? Well, that's why I come on these podcasts is to talk about this. My mission in life is to teach people how to do this. Right. I successfully taught thousands, tens of thousands of people in prison to do this. You know, I wrote my fourth book about this and now I'm doing everything I can in my power to teach people this wonderful skill that's life changing, life changing.
14:27
I bet it would be, especially like I said, if a lot more of us learned those skills, because it will benefit us at home, at work, public spaces, you know, everybody just blows up nowadays. We learned that if we trained about 1% of a prison yard population, say there's a thousand people live on a yard, if we train 10 of them, these skills within six months, the violence in that yard dropped dramatically, just 10 out of a thousand. The ripple effect, it spreads.
14:56
We don't need to teach everybody, we just need to teach one percent. Okay, so you've covered the two steps. Well, the first step is to ignore the words. Right. Second step is to read the emotions. Third step, reflect back the emotions with the use statement. Don't use any of that active listening I stuff. That doesn't work. Don't ask questions, you know. The active listening part? That's awful. It's awful. People who teach active listening, one, they don't know what they're talking about. Pure ignorance.
15:22
There's not one iota of science to support the use of I-Statements in reflective listening. It's all based on a misunderstanding of psychologist Thomas Gordon's work in 1956. He was the guy who coined the term active listening. And his work was completely twisted and misinterpreted during the human potential movement of the 1960s. And today it's entrenched in psychology and therapy training and mediation training. It's entrenched and you get all these people out there teaching this stuff, even though it doesn't work and they know it doesn't work, but they still teach it anyways because they don't know anything else.
15:51
because they're not willing to read the neuroscience to find out what really does work. It's maddening. That is amazing, because you hear this term a lot, especially in communication circles. It's utter bullshit. It is. If it worked, I wouldn't be here talking to you. I'd be using active listening. It does not work, period. End of story. Stop doing it. It's actually damaging. When I teach workshops, for example, somebody will say, well, what about active listening? And some people get really wedded to the ice state. And I say, okay, let's just do a quick experiment.
16:19
let's do by active listening an I-statement. Now let's do a you statement and let's find out which one's more effective. The use statement wins every single time over the ice from the speaker's perspective. But the reason that the listener uses an I-statement is because it's passive voice, so it's language of distance. And it's done to self-soothe one, the listener's anxiety over the emotions of the speaker. What I hear you saying is you're angry. That's designed to soothe me, the listener, right? Not to deescalate you, the speaker.
16:47
I wanted to deescalate you. So I'm gonna say, Roberta, you're really angry. Which I am, yes. And you say, yeah, I am, I'm really angry. You're really frustrated. Yeah, I'm really frustrated. You feel completely ignored, disrespected, not listened to, unappreciated, unsupported. Yeah, that's making you anxious and scared a little bit. Yeah. So you're reflecting me back to me. I'm reflecting your emotions back to you using a you statement. I've seen some therapists when they counsel couples, they say,
17:16
the husband must role play how he pursues the wife when she's angry, for instance. Now sometimes they even imitate the wife's voice or... See, you're shaking your head. Dad, dad, dad. It's not based on science. Let's do evidence-based practice and therapy, okay? Let's make sure that everything we do is based on evidence. All right, I've got 10 brain imaging studies that show why this works and what happens to the brain when you use these techniques.
17:41
None of these therapists can point to any scientific evidence to support any of the therapeutic practices they engage in, like that kind of role playing stuff. They make it all up because they don't have anything else to do. They have no other tools because the whole modality of their training ignores the hard science. Yeah, it sounds to me like they're trying to do the you statements but in a very tacky way, because it's almost like they're saying to the husband, project to the wife how you perceive her feelings to what sort of other conflict is. It doesn't work. It doesn't work.
18:10
What the good therapist should be teaching the couple is, all right, John, Mary's gonna talk about something that was really upsetting to her last week, and you're gonna ignore her words. And all I want you to do is tell her what emotions she's experiencing as she tells you the story. Can you do that? We'll say no or yes. Say, don't worry, I'm gonna coach you and help you. So Mary starts telling her story, and John's gonna now learn how to label her emotions. You're really sad, you're frightened, you're upset, you're annoyed, you're angry, you're frustrated, you feel all alone, you feel abandoned, you feel betrayed.
18:39
And as John reflects to Mary what Mary's feeling, Mary feels emotionally safe, maybe for the first time in her life. And so she starts talking more until finally she gets to the end and she says, yeah, that's exactly right. And they're done. And then if the therapist is really good, they reverse roles and Mary labels John's emotions. And that's how they learn how to do it. That's how I teach it. To do anything else in my opinion, based on my experience is destructive. Right. If you think of an instance where I'm shopping at Target,
19:06
And let's say they've asked you to train their staff in case I escalate the situation and I throw a tantrum. Will I, as a customer, I'm trying to pay for my goods, will it work if they say, ma'am, I see you're angry, I see you're frustrated? That's wrong, because your tone of voice is wrong. That's how they get trained, it's not their fault. It's wrong. So do you notice when I label your emotions to the intensity of my voice? Right. You have to match the intensity.
19:35
If you don't match the intensity of the speaker with your own voice, then it's going to come across as smarmy and manipulative. And typically what happens is the speaker comes in at this level, as a listener you reflect at this level, the speaker then goes up, you come up, speaker might go up one more time, getting louder and louder, and then on the last third or fourth drops all the way down and you follow them down. And that's the way it works. It takes about 15 seconds for that to happen. But you've got to match the intensity. They're being trained the wrong way.
20:03
No one has done any research to see whether or not that really works. I can calm you down if you're screaming mad at me and I'm a checker. I can calm you down in less than 30, 30 to 40 seconds. And you had the words right. But the problem was the tone of voice. You don't come at somebody with a smarmy voice. You come at them with some intensity. Ma'am, you're really upset. You're really angry. You're really frustrated. You feel completely disrespected and ignored. And nobody here is supporting you or helping you. And that is really frustrating to you. And you're anxious.
20:30
and upset and you're sad because you were hoping for a great shopping experience and it didn't happen. And you feel like you're all alone here and nobody's here to help you. So it's almost like the target employee needs the intensity to be in that energy. That's right, you have to be in that energy. Because I think they are meant to believe that being polite is what the customer needs. Wrong. And it sounds condescending when you're angry like this. Have I ever been not polite in affect labeling as you heard it, as we've been talking here with our conversation? No.
20:59
No. I've always been polite. Yeah. With total respect. Right. But my intensity level is what's different. And the trainers are mixing up intensity with politeness. No, wrong. No science to support that. None, zero, zilch. How do they teach stuff where there's no science? When there's plenty of science out there that tells us what to do. That's what drives me crazy. Like I said, I think the information hasn't disseminated yet. If I am home and after listening to you, I want to start practicing step by step.
21:28
you know, listen to your body, the meditation, they'll tell you, do the breath work, do it at home. Is there something I can do while I'm here after listening to you at home? Okay, I've got a, first of all, I do have a resource page I created for the art, for your audience. Where they can go and get more resources. So let me put that out there first, and then I'll talk about how do you practice this stuff. Yes, please. The webpage is dougnoll.co slash Roberta. Okay.
21:56
Okay? dougknoll.co slash revert it. Pre-ebook tells you exactly how to do all this stuff, what we've been talking about. You can buy my book, Deescalate. You can buy it for less than $200 by my online video course, How to Deescalate an Anger Person. And if you want to spend more money, you can buy my online courses on how to develop emotional competency. Lots of resources. Here's how to practice this. You always want to start in super safe, low risk social environments, where if you make a mistake, it's no big deal. And you also want to practice in places where it's like a laboratory.
22:25
because I don't want people to take my word on it. I know the science behind this, but the only way you're really gonna convince yourself that this stuff works is by doing your own experiments and testing. So my favorite laboratory is Starbucks. You walk into a Starbucks in the morning, you're gonna order your coffee or your cappuccino or whatever. When you talk to the person who's taking your order, say something like, you're really happy today. Then they're almost always gonna be happy. Stop. You want emotion, happy. Right. Put your lab coat on, observe, how does this person change?
22:53
What do they start saying to you? How do they start treating you? How is this different than other interactions you've had with people? And you'll see that it's a very, very different demeanor and a very, very different reaction than you've ever seen before from a Starbucks barista. You keep practicing like this for at least two or three weeks. Try it out at the supermarket. Your stuff on the conveyor belt and the check scanning your stuff. Checkers are not usually happy people. So you would say something, oh, you look really tired and anxious and frustrated. Yeah. Tough day, huh? I wouldn't even say that.
23:23
Oh, okay. Not in the motion. Oh, right. Yes. You're really tired, you're frustrated, and you're a little angry and pissed off. Yeah. You want to get the best service you've ever had at a restaurant? Your server comes up and says, Hi, I'm Doug. I'm your server tonight. You know, whatever that is. Oh, man, you look really anxious and frustrated and a little tired if that's the way they are, because most of them are these days, right? Or you could say, Oh, you look like you're having a really good time tonight. Yeah. You look pretty anxious and busy and harried and lots going on. Yeah.
23:52
and then they'll sit and they'll start talking to you and you'll get the best service you've ever had in your life because you've validated their emotions. You practice in every single low risk situation you can until this starts to become habitual, which won't take long. You'll have so many positive interactions with people that this practice becomes self-affirming. It becomes self-reinforcing. You'll want to do it because it feels so good to you when you do it for somebody else and you're making somebody's day. You're listing them into existence and that's really a precious gift that you can give. So that's how you practice it.
24:22
A lot of people are having tough days. There's usually that one little smile or somebody helping them with their bags and they get on the bus that just restores their faith in humanity, so to speak. So if we were to walk around doing that, can you imagine the impact you'll have on them? It costs you nothing to do it. And it's priceless. And every time you reflect back somebody's emotional experience, you're throwing another pebble into the pond of peace. And these ripples are spreading out and it's having a positive effect everywhere it goes.
24:50
Which is exactly what we need right now. Yes. Right. You said parents should study it around the age of- Started to. Oh, okay. When the children start to talk, it's when you start to have that labeling. Hmm. I've had plenty of parents report to me that they start at that labeling their children between 18 months and two years old and tantrums go away forever after about four months. Wow. And the children don't fight or argue with their siblings. All that stuff, it all goes away. Fights and arguments go away forever.
25:18
and the kids start learning to affect, they're great imitators and they'll start affect labeling themselves and they'll start affect labeling their siblings. And all of a sudden there's peace and harmony everywhere and everybody is demonstrating emotional competency and they're growing and maturing and their brains are developing the way they're supposed to. It's a sight to behold. It's an amazing transformation. Yeah, it definitely is. I hear in the workplace though doing that with your boss but I'm wondering the higher you go like.
25:45
Would somebody really say that to the CEO of a Fortune 500 company? And would it be receptive? The higher up you are, you know, there are four dimensions to leadership. You've got to lead up. You have to be the leader of the people above you. You have to lead them, even though they're supposed to be leading you. You have to lead them. You have to lead sideways. You have to lead your peers. You have to definitely lead your subordinates. And you have to lead inside yourself. Four dimensions of leadership. Leading up means when you have somebody higher in the hierarchy, who's
26:14
really angry and upset, they need to be calm because when they're angry and upset, they cannot make good decisions. It's impossible to make a good decision when you're emotional. That's true. But you've got to calm them down, especially if they have to make a decision. And so you're not only doing them a service, you're doing the company a service. You've got to think of it that way. Like I said, a lot of the fear comes from if instead of having the impact Doug is talking about, it had the opposite effect and now
26:40
I'm on the verge of being fired. And that's why I'm wondering if a lot of people would have the courage to do that. It does take some courage in the beginning, but I would rather be fired for trying to calm somebody down than remain in a toxic environment where I've got bosses shooting off all the time, totally unpredictably. I'm not gonna live in that kind of a toxic environment. Yeah, it affects a lot of people's mental health as well. We've talked about it in one of the episodes in this podcast. Yeah. I can guarantee you though that when you learn how to affect label, you can affect label anybody.
27:09
It doesn't matter what their status in life is. It doesn't matter whether they're superior to you or not. They are going to respond the same way every human brain responds, which is with deep gratitude that you've calmed them down. And you'll build instant trust and loyalty. I had a previous guest, he used to be a hostage negotiator. And they were also trying to de-escalate the situation so that the hostage is not hurt by the suspect. It sounded like they would use something similar to say, right now, this is what you're feeling, right?
27:39
and the guy on the other side, whether it's through a mic or something or from the building and say, yeah, you know, officers, they try to validate his feelings and then he starts to get calm. And there's less and less of a possibility him hurting the person that is holding hostage. Right. Because once you calm down, then you're not likely to engage in violence. Which again, is why we teach this very first skill we teach in our Prison and Peace Project. Right. Doug, this has been really eye opening and transformative.
28:09
Thank you so much for being here today. Please give us again the website for the book and all of your social media handles. Right. So if you go to dougnoll.co.com.co.flash.reberta, you'll go to the audience page I've created for all of your podcast listeners. And on that page will be a free ebook that you can download. You can buy my fourth book, Deescalate, How to Calm an Angry Person in 90 Seconds or Less.
28:38
You can buy my deescalate video course that I put together, and you can buy my courses on emotional competency. If you want to find me on social media, I'm on all the usual places, LinkedIn, Doug Noll, Facebook, Douglas Noll, Instagram, Douglas E. Noll, YouTube. I've got a really powerful YouTube channel called The Power of Emotional Competency. Just Google that and you'll get to my channel page. I also have a Douglas Noll YouTube channel.
29:05
and I have lots of videos that talk about all of this stuff. If you Google me, you'll find me. Everywhere. I've got a pretty big presence on the internet. Appreciate you so much for your wisdom and for your time today. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Roberta. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review. That was Dad Noel sharing with us all the tips and the tools we need in order to resolve conflict.