Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you're looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be listening to. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review by the end of this episode. Today, I am joined by Natasha Bazylevich, who is a business trainer and a public speaking coach.
00:25
talk about being in the right place. And before I go any further, please help me welcome Natasha. Hello. Thank you, Roberta, for having me. I'm so happy that you are here. It's like you've come home. Exactly. It's like I came home. I always love talking to someone who is passionate about public speaking because that's my passion. And then it's like, ta-da-da-da-da-da. You know how two people speak about something they love? You can never stop them. Exactly. Found your tribe.
00:52
So tell us a little bit about your background, where you grew up. I grew up in Ukraine and I am a Ukrainian. I am in the U.S. right now, but only since the war started because also I have a family here and also my business is here. But yes, my heart and my nationality is there in Ukraine. I always was teaching.
01:13
I started teaching 22 years ago when I graduated from the university. And I studied training and teaching business skills 15 years ago, after I got my MBA. But only seven years ago, when I started my business, I started creating online courses and teaching presentation skills and public speaking skills to entrepreneurs and executives, helping them speak with power and with confidence. I'm really sorry. Yes.
01:40
And it must be heartbreaking that you still have family there. People who are here in the U S in Minnesota, they are not really my blood relatives, but they are my friends of 22 years. So that's why they are like my family. And when we heard the rumors that the war was going to start, then they said to me, no, you're coming. We won't even talk about this. You're coming. I got there actually one week before the airlines stopped flying. But yes, my whole family, all of them are still in Ukraine and I pray every day for them.
02:07
We pray every day for them too. Do you know if any of your families are affected since the war began? All of them are safe except for one person. He is my niece's husband. He's in the military when they were near the Russia, so that's the north of Ukraine with his unit. The whole unit got under the burning building and everyone was killed except for him. And that's like a miracle because he was under that building for two hours. And then when they cut him out, they were able to get him to Kiev really fast.
02:37
And he survived. They had to cut his right arm and right leg completely. Oh no. And he wasn't breathing for himself, but now he can breathe and he can talk. And they took him to Finland for more treatment. And we hope that he'll be able to walk with some bionic leg. But yes, the rest of my family, they are fine. I was talking to my mom today and I heard air raid sirens because they have those every day. That's the life there. Yeah. We will always pray for your family members who are still stuck there.
03:04
How did you get started on this public speaking coaching business? Well, I started my business six years ago. First, my idea was to create an online school with China. I would teach English to the Chinese students. It was more of an experiment. A learning experience. Exactly. Yes, because I got a lot of friends and partners in China. It's just that it was impossible to start an online school.
03:27
I didn't know the market well enough, even though I did the market research. I had a person do it for me there in China, but they live in a different cyberspace because they have the different kinds of social media, not Facebook, not Instagram. Google doesn't work there unless you have VPN.
03:42
So yes, that didn't work out. I pivoted and I started teaching business skills to the rest of the world. And after the pandemic, I saw that a lot of people needed presentation skills. They come to me with public speaking questions. And I saw that I love that the most. That was my favorite thing to teach. So I niched down and I started teaching it and I'm enjoying a created online program and courses and started teaching corporate trainings and created my podcast. And so public speaking became my jam.
04:11
It certainly is my jam too. That's why I think you found your trap again today. When you were finishing your MBA, did you know already by then that this is the route you wanted to take? No, I was going to teach some business skills. So we started working with business professionals, with CEOs and owners of business, and that's why I needed MBA so that I understand who I'm working with. But I didn't really know that I would even start my business. That was 2007 when I finished it. Was that like management consulting?
04:39
It's international partnerships. That's an educational foundation and a Christian mission. So we were doing a lot of different seminars and workshops. So in teaching what you call business skills, what does that usually entail? So that's leadership seminars, habit building, creativity, emotional intelligence, time management, and presentation skills, of course, is one of the biggest ones. Sometimes it's cultural intelligence, social, relationship building, team building, setting goals. And are you still doing that?
05:09
Sometimes, yes, I do. I do, and I help people with that. It's just that now my focus is on presentation skills. Let's talk a little bit about the emotional intelligence part. What do we feel like we lack before we sign up for a course like that? Well, first, let me explain maybe for people how I teach emotional intelligence. I'm actually connected with speaking as well now.
05:32
Because emotional intelligence has four areas of expertise or competencies, we can call them four quadrants, if you imagine it's self-awareness, social awareness, self-management and relationship management. So self-awareness, that's knowing ourselves, understanding who we are and understanding our own emotions. When we feel something, we're able to say what we feel, to name that emotion.
05:53
We can understand why we feel that way. So that's self-awareness. And when we talk about speaking, actually that's also knowing my style, knowing my personality and knowing what I feel when sometimes we're nervous before speaking. All of that really helps with being able to speak well when you understand your own style. So that's for self-awareness. Then social awareness, that's all about other people. That's when we can read other people's emotions or as a speaker, read the audience. Social awareness, that's understanding what they feel.
06:22
so that we could then use that information in their management. When you see and yes, like you're saying, someone is falling asleep, or we can look at their face and we can read the emotion in their face or little movements, little micro expressions, and we can see, Ooh, they just didn't like what I said. Well, maybe that's okay. But if I see that everyone reacts that way, or everyone just now has what you just now had that expression on your face is it's like thinking, what's that? So if I see that... Maybe they're just guessing it.
06:51
Yes. So maybe that means they're closing their eyes a little bit. It means that they're trying to understand what I'm saying. That gives me an understanding. Okay. So they probably need more explanation. So I will clarify it. So yeah, it's so important to have this social awareness. And then of course, self-management, that's managing our own emotions, being able to turn that nervousness into energy, being able to breathe and stop that fear.
07:16
And in all other kinds of emotions and then relationship management that's managing your relationships with other people. But if we talk about speaking, that's what you just said. Take all that information you learn in social awareness and use it for when you are speaking and you engage your audience, respond to them or not respond. Because sometimes when we have a difficult person in the audience, people tend to focus on that one difficult person.
07:41
They start giving me throwing us some objections, for example, they disagree with us and we focus and we start responding to them. That is a mistake because what about the rest of people? They came here to listen to your message and you are responding to just one person who may be triggered. Yes. So just say to that person, I respect your opinion. Let's talk about that after the presentation. That's the relationship management. These four are emotional intelligence skills.
08:09
And a lot of times people will come because they don't know how to manage their emotions. Or maybe they are not sure how to read the room. That's a great skill to be able to look and read people's body language. So it really will depend on what people would love to improve. Adults are children in big bodies. So if you are not able to learn to manage your emotions at home while growing up, you just throw your toys out of the court and they give you what you want. So you stop screaming.
08:37
That's usually the adult you become. Now with social awareness, do you think that's decreasing based on the culture we live in, of we're always looking down on our phones? We don't even see the person walking across us. Nowadays, people are less socially aware. That is a fact that now there's more of this, but it is in itself is certain sign when people ignore you and they just look down and maybe they are not interested.
09:01
On the other hand, I had a different experience when the person who was mostly in their phone during my presentation, and I thought, and you know how sometimes we are triggered, oh, they're not interested, they're in their phone. Don't get triggered by that. Just give you a message, focus on giving a message the best way you can. Because actually later that person came to me and asked most questions and looked most interested. It's just that... The one that was on the phone? Yes, the one that was on the phone. Sometimes there are reasons.
09:29
We don't know, maybe that person really got an important text and they needed to be in the phone. Sometimes people don't really like to look up. They like to look down and they maybe are taking notes on their phone. Sometimes, you know, they're kinesthetic learners, so they need to do something with their fingers. So they were just maybe looking through something on their phone plus, but they were listening. So we don't know and we assume and then get upset, frustrated, get distracted from our message and fail with our presentation.
09:57
So it's really important to take all of that into consideration. Although it's important, of course, to know how to read different expressions, movements, actions, facial expressions, everything, body language, so that we could understand and modify our speech and our presentation accordingly. That is amazing even for me, because I'll be honest, if somebody pulls up there for that thinking, is my message really that boring for them?
10:22
But we'll also in order to try and not be so triggered, because remember, if it's a hundred people, it's just that one person, the other 99 are still listening. You don't want to ruin everything just for the one. Yeah. Yes, that's true.
10:36
So it's always hard to really read the room and know what's going on for sure. But it is also a great tool and learn. I want to suggest and also encourage everyone to learn the meanings of different micro expressions. You can read Joe Navarro's book. He is the FBI agent. What everybody says, the former FBI agent. That's right. I love him. Yeah. I love him too. Yeah. So.
11:02
you can then know, okay, what does that mean? Because we know the main expressions and we can read that. I hope that we all understand it. Everyone who is even at least a little bit interested in it knows, but there are some movements, soothing movements, touching your neck here or for men it's touching their tie. We know that this is a soothing movement, that it means that they're a little nervous, they're not sure in themselves or in the message or even if it's in the audience that...
11:29
They are disturbed a little bit, but what we're talking about, if they're touching their tie. So a lot of different movements, it's important to know what they mean. When you coach, what are some of the tips you give? First of all, someone who says, Natasha, I have a lot of these ideas, but I'm so nervous about being on stage. I just freeze at the idea of having so many eyes on me. Yes. I actually, I had a client, she didn't just freeze. She would have tachycardia. She would need to take a
11:57
pill before going live even, not even just going on stage or speaking in a Zoom room with a lot of people, but even just going live. She said, Natasha, should I just give it up? Because I mean, that's my health. I have to take pills every time. I can't breathe. So what is it? I said, well, you can give it up, but you have a dream, don't you? She had a dream to start a Spanish speaking club and her online school. I said, well, are you ready to give that up? She said, no. I said, well, you need your speaking skills, right? Yes, of course. So we started working on it. And.
12:26
As soon as the person understands their why, do they really need? If they freeze, then ask yourself, do you really need public speaking skills? And if that's a person who is an entrepreneur or who really wants to advance in their career, who wants to share a message with the world, who wants to really speak and be heard, then for sure that is the person who needs presentation skills and public speaking skills, and that's why it's totally possible to work on it. So always remind yourself your why, and then remind yourself that this is not about you.
12:54
A lot of times we are nervous, we're afraid because we focus too much on ourselves. Oh, how do I look? Oh, I will fail. Oh, they won't like me. Forget about you. Think about your audience. You'll be a thinking narcissist. Yes. That's what Prada always says. Exactly. Think about the message. Think about your people.
13:11
And forget about your own self because if you make a mistake, so what? Everybody makes mistakes. I use those to actually make a, not self-deprecating, but just laugh at myself. And then the audience laughs at me. Yes, me too. I make a mistake. Then they say, Hey, see, okay. I just now made a mistake. Nobody died. We'll keep going. And that's what happens. I make it a teaching moment. And that's what happens when you make a mistake.
13:36
You can just keep going and people will understand it and relate to you. So yes. And they don't know your speech. What if you skip something? They don't know what you were supposed to say. Exactly. So all of that perfectionism is in the way. As soon as we understand it's about the audience. Another tip that I'll say and I give to my clients and my students is use that nervousness because it's normal to be nervous, turn it into excitement. It's the same feeling.
14:04
The same body reaction. So physiologically, our body reacts in totally the same way because adrenaline is released in our body in both cases when we're excited or when we're afraid. So that adrenaline creates sweaty palms or this pounding heart. So it's the same reaction of our body. So just whenever you're afraid or nervous, just say, I'm excited. I'm excited. Yes. And enjoy it. Enjoy it. Turn it into energy.
14:32
Maybe it will be nervous energy at first, but then you'll calm down. Can I tell you something? One of my podcast hosts told me, he said, Michael Jackson used to be nervous when he went on stage. I said, no way on earth before he stepped onto the stage and did the moonwalk and everything, he used to be nervous. Yes. A lot of speakers, not all of them, but a lot of speakers, they are nervous. They, one, I know Craig Groschow, he's a speaker.
14:58
He says that every time for 30 years over, I can't even remember how many she was speaking on stages and leadership conferences, summits and conventions. He says, I want to throw up every time before I need to go to the stage. I'm so nervous. And it still goes. Yes. And what if someone says, Natasha, my voice is very soprano. I don't think that people can listen to how I sound. I don't even like how I sound. You know how some people say in voice work and they don't want to listen back because they don't like how they sound.
15:27
Well, the truth is almost nobody likes their voice because for some reason we have this in our head that we don't really like how our voice sounds because we hear ourselves differently in our head when we hear ourselves on video, for example, or then on audio. For those people who are not used to hearing their voice, it sounds different and it sounds weird and they don't like, I hear this so much. Oh, I don't like my voice. I don't like my voice. But if your voice is too high pitch, then practice low pitch.
15:56
practice playing with your pitch, because it's actually important to use vocal variety, to use different pitches. If it's always high pitch, then it is a little annoying. If you always think like this, it's really annoying. It sounds like friend dress up. We know that if we want to persuade someone, then speaking with a low pitch voice will be much more persuasive.
16:20
It sounds domineering, it sounds with power. So if you want to say a statement and show that you believe in that, then use your low pitch voice, but it has to be normal. So not if, if I use this kind of low pitch voice, that's really not normal because it's not my pitch. For example, this is low, but this is my low pitch voice and I can go, I can have, this is my high pitch voice, but this is not my pitch voice.
16:44
pitch voice, it's very unnatural. So play with it, but find the range of your natural pitch from high to low and then use it. Play with it. That will make your voice and your speech much more interesting and people will not fall asleep because we play with vocal variety in pitch, pace, volume. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's really loud and sometimes it's a whisper. So the same with pitch. Practice. There are all kinds of exercises.
17:13
do tongue twisters and practice reading with different pitches. Because I think if someone doesn't like their pitch, you can change it. That's true. It's why comedians, if they're about to deliver the punch line, they take a pause because the joke that's coming is going to floor you and they change their pitch sometimes for the punch line. It's the same with vocal variety. If you're telling a story and you're about to drop the moral of the story, you take a pause.
17:40
and your voice changes, sometimes you do whisper, maybe if you're repeating the moral of the story, that one powerful statement. And what else are the fears that people have when it comes to presenting that they come to you for? Well, the fear of public speaking, actually, I think is more the result of the fear of rejection, the fear of failure, of course, the fear of judgment, because that's why people have the fear of public speaking.
18:06
They don't want to fail and they think that if they fail, they will be rejected. They won't belong anymore. And we understand that it all comes from long time ago. It's ingrained in us that we need to belong. And if we are rejected, then it's basically the danger for our life. So people are afraid. I'm afraid of it. Consciously. Yes. And so that's why people come and they say, I'm afraid of public speaking.
18:31
But in fact, it comes from the fear of judgment, the fear of rejection. Sometimes we can dig deeper and we can find the fear of success because we can see that people are actually afraid to succeed because then they will overshadow someone else. And maybe in the childhood, actually, and this is the truth about me. I recently discovered that because
18:54
I'm always working. I think we're all in this sphere, coaches and trainers, we're into personal growth. So we continuously grow and learn. So I've just discovered about myself that I do have a fear of success. I did one session. It's an online actually, pre-session with a guy. He was my podcast guest and he gave the access to it. And I went back into my childhood with that session. And I found out that when I was little and I succeeded,
19:21
First grade and I succeeded there. I was one of the best in the class and I experienced during that session, I experienced the feeling of fear that now everybody hates me, everyone hates me because you know how sometimes in school, those who are first and the best, everyone is like, oh, she's not gonna eat lunch with you. Oh yeah.
19:40
So it's like you're ostracized. It's like no one really likes you. No one wants you because you just now won and they maybe wanted to, they didn't get what you got. And so I remember that feeling. And then they're going to say, Natasha thinks she's better. Yes. Oh, she thinks she's better than us. Yeah. Let's, well, I never really experienced it, but now you know how it is. We don't even know what we felt in childhood, but our subconscious mind remembers. So that's what I uncovered recently.
20:08
Now I know, I understand that it really was with me all the time because then I didn't really want to overshadow my brother. I never wanted to win when he would lose. I always would lose because I wanted him to win. I love him and I wanted him to win. Then with some of my friends, I didn't want to overshadow them because I didn't want them to maybe dislike me or hate me. And sometimes I would hold back and I wouldn't succeed as much as I could because of that fear.
20:34
So it is really important to dig deep and to understand what is the root of those fears and the fear of public speaking. Like I said, it could be just the top of the iceberg. That is so powerful and I'm glad you got to unpack that for yourself. Because just like you said earlier that we are all looking for belonging in a group, in a tribe. So the kind of business clients who come to you for presentation skills, what are the reasons that they give for needing those?
21:03
Like I have IT clients as well. When they come to you, what do they say is the reason they need to learn presentation skills? There are various reasons. Some of them are in IT and they're very introverted and they are maybe shy and need to speak about their products, need to be able to present. Of course, that's why they need presentation skills. But then there are others who are great at speaking. They are CEOs, they're executives, they are sales managers. They've been speaking.
21:31
But they really need clarity and structure for their speech because they could speak on and on and on and they need to all over the place. All over the place. Exactly. They need to know how to structure it, how to have one main idea, how to make it really clear and concise. So there are different people. I've worked with executives, with owners of business, with top managers and with also people who are in IT, who are just technical specialists.
21:55
that are sitting at their computer and only sometimes they do presentations of the product to people, to clients, and they also need presentation skills. Entrepreneurs who want to share their message, coaches and entrepreneurs who have an idea and a lot of times in the area of education or of knowledge, and they want to speak about their services. Right. And you know that we all need to speak about that. If we don't talk about what we offer, then people will not know about us. And so I help those people as well.
22:24
Bring their message out into the world, share it online, offline, but speak about it. So the higher you go, the less the technical work you do in managing of people. Remember the quadrant, the relationship management. Yeah. Yes, for sure. Because people, even if they want to be promoted to get to the next job or to find a different job and you go to a job interview, you need to speak. That's when you need to have great presentation skills. You present yourself, you sell yourself.
22:51
and you'll need to be able to talk so well that people will want you in their company. So all of that really comes with great presentation skills. I've interviewed an interview coach once and she said in her years in HR over 20 years, she had seen people who were brilliant, graduated magna cum laude, could not speak at the interview and that's why they didn't get the job. Can you imagine how sad that is?
23:16
Wow. When you think about this and they lose the opportunity and the world is deprived. The company is deprived because of that. Absolutely. Can you imagine how our job is important? It is. To really help people with public speaking, with presentation skills so that they could get the job, so they could help the world. And that's why I started this podcast. Actually, one of my earlier episodes was me just talking through this experience with my corporate background. I only say in this podcast, communication skills had...
23:43
help you professionally and personally. We've spoken on the professional side. How do they help you personally? Well, as we know, all of our life is relationships. So, definitely it helps us personally with our family, with our friends, with our loved ones in romantic relationships. If you're able to communicate your thoughts, to express yourself well, to speak clearly, to speak concisely.
24:09
then definitely we're able to build relationships and to have a good high level of life personally, not just professional. Dating can be quite tricky these days. Oh yes, and I don't even have time for dating right now. But yes, I would say all my life, my personal life and my professional life, it's all about speaking and it's all about relationships. Right. Or we could say it's all about relationships, but what is relationship is when we speak to different people. You can't
24:40
I mean, you can write to each other, but that's still not enough. Even writing it's certain kind of communication, you still need to present yourself in a way, but anyway, you would need to still speak on the phone, on zoom or finally meeting person. There's no more love sound. Yeah. So it's all relationships are about speaking and all life is about relationships. So there we go. Very beneficial if we can master the skills. What have you realized is?
25:09
the importance or the power of storytelling when you're doing a presentation? We all know that stories are powerful in any presentation. And sometimes we think that stories are just about some personal presentations or some inspirational speeches. But I saw that actually in business storytelling is really powerful when you talk about numbers or it seems like you have to give some dry facts and you're giving this...
25:36
business presentation to the board and all you need to do is report certain statistics, certain numbers. But if you add a story in there, then people actually will listen and people will remember your presentation. Cause if you don't, then they will just listen to it just because they have to. If you add a story, then that will be the presentation they will remember. It humed the idea.
25:57
Yes, and make the story about the company, about the projects, about something that happened, what you are reporting. So it's not just some kind of, let me tell you what happened to me yesterday. No, make it really relevant to what you are speaking about. But stories, as we know, also from Made to Stick, maybe you read the book Made to Stick with Chip and Dan Heath by Chip and Dan Heath. I haven't read it. There are six principles of a sticky message, a message that people will remember. I don't know if I will remember all six of them. So it's unexpected, credible.
26:27
Simple, emotional, something else, and story. Credible concrete probably is one of those that I missed, but the last are emotional and story. When you're sharing a story, it's always definitely emotional. When you are sharing a story, a lot of times it will be unexpected. So when you are sharing a story, then people will remember what you are telling them. You will connect with them better. And it's always, always powerful. Always. And the unexpected is because obviously they expect the numbers and the graphs.
26:55
If you insert the story there and it touches them at the emotional strings, then, like you said, that's when they always remember your presentation. Yes, that's true. Last words of wisdom, Natasha, before we ask you for social media handles. What do you want people to know when it comes to wanting to be a public speaker, but they have these fears you spoke about earlier? I want people to know that there is something in your heart right now. If you don't know, you can dig deeper and you will find it.
27:23
If it's still hard for you to understand what the dream is, what that thought is, what that message is in your heart, then just ask, ask yourself, ask whoever you believe it's God in the universe or ask your soul, ask your heart, because there is something in your heart that you want to share.
27:41
And if you're not doing it, you are depriving the world or people around you, your circles, or maybe if we go bigger than we can say the country, the society, the world, you're depriving of something. You never know whose life you could save. We hear this story so often when a speaker shares their personal story. And you know, you don't have to invent something. You just share what you experienced, what you went through.
28:06
and someone shares maybe they were suicidal and then they overcame it and they were depressed and they overcame and they share it from the stage and there was someone listening they wanted to stop their life and then it just saved them they decided to keep living just because they got inspired hearing that from the stage so that could be your message don't deprive people you could save lives you could change lives yes it might be an overused phrase but it is true so i always say
28:36
Speak with power, Natasha Bazylevich. Based on that, I've always heard the thing you are afraid to talk about the most, which you feel is a skeleton in my closet. That's what's gonna connect with your audience and be your story. Yes, that is true. Natasha, thank you so much for being here today. This has been such a wonderful conversation. Yes, I love talking about this, you see? Find your tribe. So before you go, if we want to learn to speak with power, where do we find you?
29:04
You can find me on my natashabazilevich.com on my website. And of course, everywhere on social media, I am as Natasha Bazylevich. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, the skills, the expertise that we need in order to succeed in business and in life. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review. Natasha, it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Roberta. The pleasure was mine.