Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you're looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast for you. Please remember to subscribe to give a rating and a review. Today I have the privilege of being joined by Lindsay McMann. She's the CEO and founder of All Ears English, and she's a co-host of All Ears English podcast.
00:30
She's joining us today to talk about how connection is way better than perfection. And I'm very thrilled to introduce you to Lindsay. Hi, Lindsay. Hi, Roberta. How are you? Thanks for having me on your show. I'm excited to be here. I'm doing great. Thank you for being here. I like that connection is better than perfection because you know how much stress we all go through trying to be perfect. Why do we do that to ourselves? Why do we? Good question.
00:59
You know, I think it's something that we learn as we're growing up, maybe in school, you know, in school, it was all about your grades, at least when I went to school, big red marks and report cards and things like that. And I think somewhere along the lines, we learn to focus on being correct and being perfect. And we lose sight of what actually makes us thrive as human beings.
01:21
That's funny. You say that. Do you think that's the same concept that applies to relationships and why they're so hard? Because I'm trying to prove to you that I'm correct and you must agree with me and I'm right. I think this concept of connection, not perfection applies everywhere. Relationships, business, leadership, public speaking, language learning. It's a human truth, right? It's what we want, right? We want as human beings connection, but then our smaller mind.
01:50
thinks that it wants perfection or to be right, as you said, in a relationship, right? So yeah, it absolutely applies across relationships. It seems like such a counterproductive move on our part. So let's talk about your background. Yeah, sure. So I founded All There's English and the All There's English podcast in 2013.
02:10
I started the show because I had been teaching English as a second language abroad. I had lived in Tokyo for a year and a half. I had traveled in South America. I had lived in New York city. I had seen a little bit of the world and I had seen, you know, the way languages are taught. And I saw the gaps and the problems, things were not that I thought I could do better. Right. At the same time, I was a listener of podcasts in 2013. No one knew what a podcast was.
02:36
It was very nerdy at that time. I give them the sun is so recent. No one knew. And so there was another English teacher I knew in Boston when I was living there at the time. I said, Hey, do you want to start a podcast? And she said, yeah, let's do it. And we did. She left the show after a year and I decided to continue the show because I felt like our podcast had struck a chord. From the beginning, there was something special about our show and it's still there. It's still in the magic of all there's English.
03:04
And so I've been able to continue the show with my new co-hosts, hiring my co-hosts, getting my team on board. We've been going strong ever since. Okay. So we already have something in common. I taught English in South Korea. So you were right next door to me. Yeah. I really wanted to travel to South Korea when I was in Tokyo and I never had a chance to, but geez, what a cool experience teaching English in Asia, right?
03:28
It's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. Life is so simple. I had a 15 year corporate background before that. Life is just so much simpler and stress free. I almost felt like I'm getting paid to be on holiday. Does that make sense?
03:43
Yes, it's great. It's great. You know, sometimes your apartment is subsidized by your company. Always. You're making money. I think you even had a better deal. I heard the deals were even better in South Korea than they were in Tokyo at that time, but it was pretty great in Tokyo, going out on the weekends, traveling all over Japan. I mean, I had a blast. I had a blast. And always meeting other teachers and your discussion always revolves around.
04:07
Okay, so where are we going for next summer vacation? Where are we going for the next winter vacation? You're not going to the Philippines? I'm thinking of Hong Kong. That's usually the discussion. Yeah, it's amazing. It's such a good life. I would do that again at any point. I would just drop everything and go back. Right, right. So when you came back here, what are some of the things that you feel that someone who's never exposed themselves to a different culture? What were some of your takeaways?
04:33
So you mean my reverse culture shock back into US culture? That's an interesting topic. That's what we call it too. Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I have a very, very specific memory of being on the plane, American Airlines, right? Which is sort of the worst airline ever. So American Airlines on a plane coming back for my year and a half in Tokyo and feeling like, oh my gosh, these flight attendants are so rude, but they weren't actually rude.
05:01
They were just following American cultural norms and values, the way they speak. But I had been spending a year in Japan being used to a whole other level of deference and politeness and body language. And I know in Japan, I love the level of politeness that exists. There is very, very special in the way that customer service is done. And that doesn't exist in the U S and there was nothing wrong with these flight attendants, they were just being American, right? Whatever that means.
05:29
I moved to New York and I got used to it and New York could be a rude place, but it's also a beautiful place. There's amazing things that happen in New York city. So that was just a temporary culture shock I had coming back to my own home. Respect, politeness. I feel like at the number one cultural norms in that part of the world, because even the lingo, even the body language is to say the way you address people, everything must be about politeness and respect.
05:58
Exactly. Exactly. So that is not really a value we have in the US. And again, you know, we have to be careful when we talk about cultural values and norms, because the US is so broad. I mean, most countries have different norms depending on smaller subcultures, right? Even with across genders and ages and all these different things. But I think definitely there's more of a norm of politeness and respect that I saw, at least in Japan versus the US. That's true. Yeah. And also,
06:28
the diversity aspect because those countries, they tend to be more homogeneous. Right. You know, that's why they stare at you if you're a foreigner, you walk down the street because they've never seen anything that looks like you before. But I think it's been easier to whatever standard that they hold themselves to, to just live by that as well. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And so when you came back to the U S did you then immediately decide I'm going to start a podcast.
06:54
No. So it took another trip actually. So I came back from Japan to New York, lived in New York for a couple of years, and then decided to go to South America for a year. So this is our twenties, right? We're all over the place. I spent a year backpacking through South America, learning Spanish living in Buenos Aires for three months, living in Guatemala backpacking through Uruguay, Ecuador, Chile, and then went back to New York, moved to Boston.
07:21
once I was in Boston, I decided, Hey, it's time to start a podcast. All the things came together, right? The experience abroad, the education, the teaching and the technology was there that I could start my own show, right? Barely, but it was there at that point. How did you know that something called a podcast existed at that time? I mean, everybody knows now, but how did you in 2013 know that there's something like that? But my first iPhone I bought in 2012. And I think that at that
07:51
app was native on the iPhone and I just started listening to a show in there, something for learning Spanish. I probably found like notes in Spanish or something. And then I realized, Oh, there's other shows on here. So I started listening to like Seth Godin, unmistakable creative podcast, all these other shows. I thought these are just normal people starting podcasts. So why not start one?
08:17
it's a new concept for most of us. You know, it's been a recent thing that just blew up, but I think Pat Flynn, I think, yeah, some of them started. Yeah. Pat Flynn was one of the stuff existed. Yeah. He was one of my early like, uh, virtual mentors, Pat Flynn. He was one of the first podcasts I found back in those days and he was doing it. So Pat Flynn's a normal guy, you know, from California. Right. Right. And I thought, why not? Why not start one too? Yeah. And when you started, what was the purpose? What was your mission?
08:46
It was teaching English as a second language to those same students that I had been teaching, honestly, my whole life, right? In Tokyo, in South America, in New York City, mostly business professionals or students who were either going abroad for work or travel or who needed to do business abroad. Early on, it took about 20 episodes and then we figured out what our mission really was, which was the connection, not perfection, vision and value.
09:14
And that really gave the whole thing steam, right? And so that's kind of one of my messages for your audience today. No matter what you're doing, whether it's presenting or leading a business meeting or just being a leader in your company, you need something to fuel what your work. There has to be something deeper about what you're doing. How did you come up with the connection versus perfection? Because I think that's one thing that ESL teachers struggle with the most in getting their students to participate.
09:43
to practice speaking, because there's this thing of wanting to be perfect and therefore not trying at all. How did you come up with that idea as your mission? Yeah, actually it came out naturally in an episode. So the phrase, and we did trademark this phrase as soon as we said, hey, this is great, this is our trademark. We said it naturally in an episode, somewhere in the first like 50 episodes, we just said it in an episode, and we looked at each other like, that's it, right? That is why Aller's English exists.
10:12
And that's how you know you have something good because you've actually used it in communicating what you're trying to say to your students. And I agree with you, Roberta, a lot of English teachers do get stuck with this, but I think part of the problem is that those English teachers themselves are stuck in perfectionism. That's what I would say. Because the way we do our show is that we don't really edit, we make mistakes. We as English teachers make grammar mistakes. Yes. And that is not a problem.
10:40
Right. We say, um, we say, uh, we say like, I've done it a couple of times already. That's very episode. We don't edit those things out. At least at that time, there were no podcasts that offered natural conversation like that between two people, right? We have two hosts every time we never ever go just solo on the mic. Cause we know our listeners want to hear two people in a conversation. We give them the real thing. We don't slow down.
11:05
So a lot of the podcasts that were out there at that time, were very slow, methodical, almost condescending. And that's great for if you're teaching a beginner, but we're not teaching beginners. We're teaching intermediate to advanced. So we wanna give them a method, something to aspire to, which is totally natural. We don't slow down, we don't edit mistakes. So we display connection, not perfection, right? As a teacher, we have to model what we want our students to. Yeah.
11:31
and take the risk of being willing to publish a grammar mistake we just made as English teachers. Right? I'm feeling like a little bit of a hypocrite right now. And the reason is, so when I started the podcast late last year, I didn't know the tools to edit. I didn't know audacity, all of those. And I remember thinking to myself, do I really want to publish this? I've had tongue twisters I missed and said, um, so many times and I'm talking about speaking people.
12:01
Is she serious? And so what I did was I went ahead. I had a coach who said, Roberta, there you go again, sabotaging yourself. Just do it. Do it, miss. It just do it. And then I did. It's funny because one of those earlier episodes, my guest, Alison Ara, talking about the four stages of confident communication, it's got one of the highest downloads I could not edit. I didn't know how to, so I thought to myself, wait a minute. And that would take weeks of.
12:28
from the last episode thinking I need to be perfect in this editing thing first. I don't want to upload this thing with mistakes. Yeah. But when I looked at Alison's episode, I thought to myself, wait, what am I afraid of? Yes. What she shared is so variable, so helpful. That's what people are caring about right now. Not my wanting to sound perfect. Right. That's such a good point because I think that podcasting is unique. It's a very intimate mode of communication between the podcaster and the listener.
12:58
Right? Because if I have you in my ears, like there's nothing more intimate than that. It's more intimate than video, than blogging. Right? And so it's human. So they hear all the human aspects of us through the microphone. So people just want realness. They want authenticity. You do need a minimum viable quality of audio. So obviously like we're not recording our podcasts on our phone. Like again, people want that connection. They want to feel something real. They want to understand you as a human being.
13:27
So that's why that worked. I think that makes total sense. It does. I'm wondering if I should edit this episode once we done. Definitely. You know, when teaching your students, how do you then transition them to don't worry about being perfect? Yeah. Focus more on connecting with the audience.
13:50
Well, an important thing to remember with this slogan, this idea, a lot of people misunderstand it and they think we mean don't practice, be lazy, just go speak, it doesn't matter, do whatever you want. No, it's, we're not dropping all standards of language and saying you could say anything you want. This is actually more about what you do in the moment of speaking and not about the preparation. We always prepare.
14:14
Our team, we work harder than any, we work incredibly hard, right? When it comes to podcasting, we do four episodes a week. We believe in work ethic. And so we pass that on to our students, our listeners, you work hard and you prepare, but when you're in the moment of the conversation, you don't let perfection get in the way of connection. So that means practically speaking, if you make a mistake, you don't drop the eye contact, right? A lot of students, you know, I mean, you taught English in South Korea. They make the mistake.
14:43
drop eye contact, move back, maybe the shoulders go back, step back, so you feel that physical movement, the connection's lost right away. But what if you could maintain it and you say, I deserve to connect with this person, I am in connection and I'm not gonna let a grammar mistake change that, then you have that true moment, that's what we're here on earth for, right? So that's what it means, we help our students do that. That is so powerful.
15:07
And that's very important because like you say, then they pulled back and even the things that they're brilliant on, they no longer share them because they made that one mistake. Exactly. Imagine what is lost in the world. That's the other part of this. If you then curl up and move back and walk away from that person, what did you not share that could have changed their lives? Right. I mean, think about it. Missed opportunity. Yeah. And when you talk to your students and you explain this concept to them.
15:37
how do they receive it or is it, oh, yes, Miss Lenz is right. That's exactly, I fully agree. But then they go back to the old ways. Yeah, I think on a visceral level, they completely connect with it. They understand it because again, it's a human thing. Everyone knows that their hearts want connection. So they know it's true and they know it's real and they know they're on the right track. But of course it becomes harder when you go to implement it. So then what you need to do is continue to
16:06
Remind yourself of that. It becomes habits, right? Like I said, what is your habit when you make a mistake? Is it the curling up or is it the maintaining the eye contact? And this applies to the public speaking, obviously, which we could talk about, right? What do you do when you again, make a mistake on the stage? We build certain things into our curriculum at Allers English. We bring in interviews with native speakers so they understand English in a natural environment. We don't give them like staged scripted English to practice with.
16:34
We do certain things that will make them more likely to stay in connection when they're in the real world. Right. Speaking of making a mistake while publicly speaking. So you have an audience, you're on stage and slip of the tongue or you say something you shouldn't. I usually say to my clients, listen, this is actually one way for you to connect with the audience. Yeah. Go the human side of you. You can turn it into a joke. Not.
16:59
condescending or self-deprecating, but you can actually turn into a joke that could actually make you connect. Yeah, absolutely. That has to be based on your own personality. I think the most important thing is that we be ourselves in that moment, right? What would you do if you're not a naturally like jokey funny person? I guess maybe don't try to make a joke because maybe it wouldn't quite come off, but stay within your own personality. But the most important thing is don't let it affect. Don't let it drop your energy and move out of that.
17:28
connection with the audience at that point, right? Because I've even seen some TEDx speakers who make a mistake and everybody can laugh about it because they laugh about it first. So the audience is comfortable to laugh with them as well. But if you freeze, everybody feels the tension. Right. That's what I mean about like the teachers setting the leadership standard of showing people that are following you what's OK and what's not, you know, if you're on stage as a TEDx speaker, you make a mistake, you laugh, the audience will laugh. Same thing.
17:58
as a teacher, a podcast teacher, you make a grammar mistake. Maybe you acknowledge it was a mistake, but you show it in conversation. You set that standard. It's okay to make mistakes. What is it about non English speakers that they can be so brilliant at one moment, as soon as English gets into the picture, it suddenly lowers their confidence. What is it about the English language that does that to people? That's such a good question. I think it goes back to when people were growing up.
18:27
Obviously I have not been in that position because I was spoken English since I was born from the U S but I did have a taste of, you know, language training in French in middle school and it was miserable. You know, it was all about memorization, you know, wrote rehearsal and I was actually really bad in that class. I got like D's and that fired me up to work a lot harder. I eventually by the end of the semester was like one of the best in the class because I became very motivated.
18:55
But the way we teach languages in schools worldwide is wrong. We're not doing it right because language is dynamic. It's human. It's not meant to be in a book in a class as a subject like math science. It's a human thing. So it should be taught more organically. You're not going to learn to swim by reading a book. Exactly. Yeah, because it is so natural to who we are as human beings. Exactly. It should be taught more as a sport by doing.
19:20
The reason I ask is because based on my experience as well, you probably had a similar experience in Japan. I would always encourage my students to try and not focus on being grammatically correct, even if it's one word, because I would lead them on and help them understand where the conversation is going to encourage them to keep going to practice speaking. It's funny that they feel they have to be perfect in English to speak to me.
19:44
And yet I would say just one word, not even a sentence, just one word in Korean. And that'd be excitement in the room. I was like, do the same thing for me. That's the excitement I feel when you speak one English word. Yeah, totally. I had the same experience in Japan. Maybe some cultural aspects are about respect towards the teacher.
20:07
I know in Japan, based on the cultural norms, you should pay a lot of respect to your teachers. So there could have been something going on there too. I'm not sure. I know in Japan, I think part of the issue is the way they learn kanji is just so incredibly intense from what I've heard. I think there's like 2,500 characters. And from what I understand, it has to be perfect to be written correctly, read correctly. So maybe what's happening is the same system is being translated into how English is being
20:37
I don't know about the alphabet writing system in South Korea. Out of the three Chinese, Japanese and Korean, my understanding was it's the simplest one. I've heard that too. Yeah. And secondly, English has 26 alphabet letters. Korean has less. I think 20. Okay. So maybe the first thing I learned was the alphabet when I got there. And it took about an hour.
21:06
It took about an hour for me to learn all the consonants and all the vowels. Friend of mine who taught me then they said, we want to walk out the street, every street sign, building sign, you're going to practice by reading. You would be amazed how the following Monday I was at school and I said to my co-teacher, cause sometimes you see it would block us in this word before.
21:30
What is it? You charge and she said, that's parking. I'm like, Oh yeah, it makes sense. Every other block is. Don't send. Cause now I'm practicing the reading based on what my friend taught me. Just read buildings. Even if it doesn't make sense to you. I'm like, this pedong sun work. What is that real estate office where people go to look for an apartment? Yeah, that would be in every other block. It's the most simple alphabet to learn. And it's actually easier than English because.
21:59
In English, one moment the A alphabet is pronounced as A and then it's pronounced as A, whereas in Korean it doesn't change. It doesn't change. Okay. That's good. Yeah. It's a good way to learn too. It's very easy to learn. Yeah. Walking around your city. That's so fun. Yeah. Oh man. I think we had similar experiences in Japan and Korea. I also learned by walking around and wondering what things say, signs, reading the basics. I mean, in Japanese, there's three systems of writing. There's hiragana,
22:29
learnable. And then there's Kanji, which is the Chinese character, which takes a lot longer to learn. Obviously it can be done. Kirogane Katakana can be learned relatively quickly, not in a weekend, I don't think, but depending on who's learning it sounds like the Korean language is a little more simple. It's the simplest one. Yes. Came from Chinese characters and they just simplified it. Simplified it. Cool. I like that. I don't want people to feel stressed out around English. I want them to build those relationships they need and want in business and life.
22:57
You know, it becomes a lonely situation when the language is sitting between you and another person. That's what we're trying to avoid. That's right. And speaking of connection when public speaking, what tips can you share in connecting with your audience? In terms of doing presentations online, it's the same thing. You do need to believe in what your message is. I've been invited to speak in a couple of conferences.
23:21
mostly ESL conferences or entrepreneur conferences in the last few years online since the pandemic, I have presented this idea of connection, not perfection or other deeper values behind my company. And that's what I find gives me confidence, right? When I'm presenting something superficial or that I don't really believe in, I stumble on the facts. But when I'm talking about
23:43
the deeper things, it actually gives me more momentum. And I'm much more rock solid when it comes to stage presence and what I'm saying and presenting because something deeper is driving me. So my message for your audience is make sure you get in touch with the why, that deeper meaning behind your presentation, what you're teaching, share it, or at least share it with yourself so you know, if it's not appropriate for the material sharing, get in touch with that. Cause that's gonna be where your momentum comes from and your confidence.
24:11
Do you think we struggle with being vulnerable as well? We feel like I have to be perfect. I don't want people seeing that mistaking making side of me. Definitely, definitely. We all, as human beings, we want to like protect ourselves and be perfect and show that, yeah. There's kind of that fine line between showing those mistakes and also staying professional, right? But I think we know where that is. Yeah, vulnerability is a whole topic that we could get into, but for sure I think human beings struggle with that.
24:39
Absolutely. We'd have to invite Renee Brown to talk about that. Talk about all ears. Okay. What is it that you guys do and how do you help people with your company? Basically, we teach English as a second language for global professionals, but we do it in a, like I said before, edutaining way. So it's edutainment. It is education, but it's also entertainment. And so your listeners, if they come over and check out our show, they'll get a sense of what I mean.
25:07
It's fun. We do role plays. We do real conversation. We teach real vocabulary. We always have a deeper meaning and a takeaway to every episode. So there's a rhythm to it. It's a chemistry connection between the hosts that our listeners get to witness and get to model their language after when they go out into the real world later. Can shadow with transcripts. They can practice. They can get inspired. And we talk about more than just the language. We like to bring in
25:34
of different topics. In the last few weeks, I interviewed Alex Boylan, who won the amazing race season two. As in season two, because I know it's been around for like 40 years. It's been a long time. Yeah. It was on the show in the 2000s, but... It's been around forever, but feel it's still cute, but carry on. Yeah, exactly. I interviewed last summer, someone his name was Alex Soo Jong Kim Pong.
25:56
And he actually wrote a book about the four day work week. He's done a lot of research on this trend now of four day work weeks. So we like to bring in business topics, different pop culture stuff, not just let's teach grammar today. How much more that we can do than just teaching the simple past. So that's what we do. Edutainment. That's a very important aspect because I remember when I started teaching, they used to say to me, please make sure your classes are exciting.
26:24
It's not a university lecture where you just talk and everybody takes notes. Right. There's going to be an element where we do a song, do a fun activity, role play, as you said, where we do a fun worksheet where they're going to do something fun with their teammates. A lesson had so much variety just so they could get excited to learn. Yes. They learn much better when they are happy. Well, science says that, right? There is science to prove that when you're emotionally heightened, you actually absorb more information. You do learn more for sure.
26:54
That is so true. Yeah. In my classes in Japan, I kind of had to be a bit of a performer. I think maybe I took some of that into this show, right? The stage presence behind the microphone. There is something there of performance and kind of being that teacher on stage a little bit. Speaking of being a performer, I used to, I mean, my facial expressions always been there, but my students used to think my facial expressions are the best thing they've ever seen. Yeah. Somebody's doing something at the corner.
27:22
And this shrunk face, everybody, look at your better teacher, look at your better teacher. That's so funny. It's almost like that's the first time there's been someone with this special expression up close. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. True. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder if across cultures, if there's a difference in how expressive, you know, we are taught to be.
27:44
In our culture, I'm also very facially expressive. I make a lot of express, sometimes more than I should. And I don't realize what I'm doing, right. And people get messages that aren't correct. And then I wonder if in certain cultures, you should be more subdued. That's really interesting. I found that with my co-teachers and they were wonderful. And I've always been like, it would ever work. They worked with wonderful people. Maybe it could be a cultural thing, but even though they were fun as people.
28:11
There's a reference about studying and academics that I find they had compared to my country, at least I don't know how it is in America, but they held academics to such a high standard that it's time to be serious. Yes. So when I had a co-teacher, that would be the case. And then it was my turn to teach and I'm animated with my face. They used to just think it's the best thing in the world.
28:35
But at the same time, they wanted you to lead a fun class. So that was your way of doing it. I mean, you make it work. It works in the end. If people are having fun, they're going to learn. That's what it comes down to, especially adults. We can't force adults to sit in a room and study. They have to pick up that podcast on their own and it better be good. It better be fun. That I think is one thing we take for granted. Sometimes we think adults don't want to be subdued and serious.
29:02
It's just kids. I must remember to have fun when it's kids that I'm teaching, but it's not the case at all. You spoke on leadership earlier and how we can create connection. You want to talk to us about that? Yeah. Well, I think, you know, it all comes back to the deeper value, the why. So if you are running a company, so I own All Ears English and as the owner of All Ears English, I am always keeping my team on board, motivating them by letting them know what we stand for.
29:27
Back in 2020, we did an exercise where we went through and figured out what our five values were as a company. And we tried to review them as much as we can to make sure that they're still in line with how we're working, you know, the way that we are going through the world. You're a leader for a reason, and there's something deeper of what you're trying to do. And then you can take your team along with you because people want meaning in their lives. They don't just want to show up to work, punch the clock.
29:52
and then leave. They want to impact the world in some way, but not everyone wants to run a company, obviously. Right. So give them that chance. I mean, my team's been with me for a long time and they'll stay with you for a long time. They'll be loyal to you. They'll help you build your company. That's so important. They deserve that. How do you think that has changed since the pandemic? We've had everybody's in the office and the cubicles and then you go to your boss's corner office if you have a problem or you want to submit something.
30:20
Now you speak to your boss through the computer. Yeah. Well, I think the responsibility is on the bosses, the leaders to come up with new systems to check in. So we adopted a program called 15 five. It's one five F I V E.com 15 five, where all we do is my team fills out a very simple five minute survey every week. And it's just a check-in like on a scale of one to five. How are you feeling today?
30:47
And then it generates random questions. I don't have to come up with these questions. An example would be, what is something you'd like to know more about your colleague? It just gets a gauge of how things are going. You can give people a high five based on their work that week. So it's a way of checking in. We need to implement tools like these due to the pandemic. We've never been in the same physical presence though, as a team, we were born online. You know, I'm in Denver, Jessica is in Portland, Michelle's in New York and Aubrey's in Arizona.
31:16
We've never been in the same location. We've done live events in Japan together, but we've never worked in the office together. That's the power of technology, which we really appreciate. Yeah. Because there's this new concept now of digital empathy. How do we communicate, not just about work, but that connection. Cause as we say, verbal counts for 7% of communication. Totally. The eye contact, the body language, tone.
31:43
Everything else is the rest of it. So how does that translate through the computer screen? Yes, exactly. We have to do a little something more as the leaders to make that happen. Any last words, Lindsey, before I ask for your social media handles?
31:58
Oh, wow. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on the show today, Roberta. This has been great. It's such an important topic. And I know so many of your listeners and people around the world are wanting to get better at this, that public speaking at leadership skills. So it's so important to be talking about these things and especially that deeper vision, right? Why we're doing this. Sorry. My voice is cracking a little bit. Please. We're not going to edit this. We're all human. Exactly. Exactly. My one is right here. I know.
32:28
Ready? Let's do this. Okay. Lindsay McMahon. Thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate all the things that you've shared and we've had so many similar experiences since you and I was in Korea. Yeah. This has been great. Roberta. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I really enjoyed it.
32:44
So where do we find you after this? Yeah. So we can, you guys can go ahead and check out the all ears English podcast. You just need to type into the search bar wherever you listen all ears English and you will find the yellow. Our branding is very yellow. So there's two of us there on the podcast cover art and you will find the show and just hit follow. We publish four days a week. Wow. Yeah. Hello. All Ears English.
33:10
Yes. Thinking of the sun and brightness and happiness. You got it. That was Lindsay McMahon, the CEO and founder of All Ears English. Thank you so much for listening today. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review. Thank you so much, Roberta. Take care. Thank you, Lindsay. Bye.