Speaking and Communicating Podcast

# Video Title: Decision-Making Strategies: The Wisdom of Your Body w/ Stephanie Peirolo
# Video URL: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4kuESrUt3CUnbVfj6qgWzY
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Find a space where you can intentionally listen to your body. See what comes up for you. It's almost like a scavenger hunt. Like my body's trying to give me clues or like a detective story. And what I want to do is to tune into the channel of my heart, my soul, my authentic being, however you phrase that, so that I can have my
own compass. Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I'm your host, Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify and
leave us a rating in a review. Now let's get communicating with our guest today, Stephanie Peirolo, she is an author, executive coach and business badass who is a non adjacent recovering alcoholic and a powerful story that she's gonna share with us pertaining to that and before I go any further please welcome her to the show. Hi Stephanie. Hello thank you for having me Roberta. My absolute pleasure welcome to the
show. They do say that we are who we define ourselves as so when I wanted to introduce you the non adjacent recovering alcoholic part I wanted to call that a story rather than who you are. Okay. And so the non adjacent part means that I am a member of a religious community. It's called the Congregation of the Sisters of Saint Joseph of Peace. I'm not a nun.
I'm something that's called an associate. It is a group of radically committed social justice focused nuns and associates. And I'm not actually even Catholic anymore. That is not a requirement. It's been very useful for me to be part of a community. I've written this book, The Saint and the Drunk, which is giving advice. It's talking about decision making. And a lot of times when I talk about the
book, people will ask me well, they'll think of me as a self help author, which is kind of a double edged sword. And sometimes what will come up in reference to people who write what are considered to be self help books is of, who do you think you are? Or the sense of how do you stay accountable? Why do I think that I can write a book about intentional decision making and
spiritual practice? And part of the reason is because I am in a community of people who know more than I do. And that's been really helpful for me in writing the book, in promoting the book, is to recognize that I am responsible to a group of mostly women who are so much wiser and more spiritual than I that it keeps me humble and it keeps me grounded, which has been very useful
for this process. Would you call them your accountability partners? I mean, suppose all communities and relationships can be accountability partners. It's deeper than that. It's having a space where I can go in and have an orientation where I am the learner, not the teacher. And I'm sure a lot of your listeners who are leaders understand this.
Right? If we go to our jobs all day, every day, and we're the ones making the decisions, we're the ones telling people what to do, sometimes it can be easy to carry that home. Right? Like my husband and I are both in leadership positions and sometimes we'll check each other when we get home of like, I'm sorry, where do you think you are right now? And so I think it is useful
for those of us who have some authority or power in one arena to have spaces where we are reminded that there are other arenas where we are a learner. This happens a lot of times with parents of teenagers. You get a sense of yourself as what I'm doing as a parent. And then your kids hit adolescence and they remind you frequently, you know very little.
And so I think it's useful for us as leaders, particularly the more power we get, to have spaces where we are not in charge. In some cases, that's an accountability partner. I mean, I'm an executive coach. In many cases, I will serve as that accountability partner for my clients. But I think it's useful to have that in a relationship that is not necessarily
professional. Yes, I'm glad you highlighted that because you know how they say if you cannot follow you cannot lead and we always remind leaders that you don't have to know everything and it's okay to be in in a learner position sometimes. Right. And that having that, it's almost like being multicultural or multilingual, that you just shift into a different way of being when you are the one who is learning
than when you are the one who is teaching. And I think it's useful to be able to shift in those different ways, and that's what that has served for in my life. Right. Now let's talk about the philosophy you have that we need to listen to the genius of the body. So when the my book, The Sane and the Drunk, A Guide to Making the Big Decisions of Your Life is a
process for making intentional decisions. It's almost you can think of it as like a workbook. It's really focused on how to move away from what we tend to default to, which is an intellectual, rational pros and cons basis for making decisions, to really focus on other ancient modalities for making decisions. And one way of making decisions really prioritizes your embodied experience. Some people call it somatic wisdom.
I call it the genius of the body. It is a very ancient way that is familiar to most of us. In the English language, we talk about having cold feet or a broken heart. And those are ways of languaging the genius of the body. And I think women are used to thinking that way. We are used to, I just had a bad feeling about that person, or my
intuition was tingling. Unfortunately, in patriarchy, a lot of women's ways of knowing have been derided as being too emotional, less valid than the more intellectual, rational ways of making decisions. And so what I'm really trying to do is reclaim the genius of the body. And if we are trying to make deep, important decisions like, do I want to change careers? Do I want to move to another country?
That's such a personal decision that we need to develop our own inner compass. And it can't be something somebody else tells us. It can't be from outside. And so to start with the genius of the body can be very helpful for some people. Now, I do want to add a caveat, which is while some people are drawn to that intuitive sense, the somatic wisdom, For some people, that can be
challenging. So I think of people who have chronic pain or physical challenges through illness. Some people who have experienced physical trauma. Maybe they were a survivor of assault or sexual abuse. So what I try to present in my book are a number of different kind of modalities for tuning into wisdom that isn't just intellectual. And the genius of the body is one that most people relate to, but if
you feel resistance as you hear that, don't worry. There are others. I'm glad you bring that up. However so when you're a grown up and there's a lot of information out there, it's starting to I would say a little bit easier to try and leave that practice of listening to your body and the genius of your body. But if you grow up in a a household and you're a
kid, you just have a bad feeling about something or I don't like it with uncle so and so comes here. He's creepy. They say you crazy, respect your uncle or whatnot, and then something happens. Right. You know what I mean? So I think the older you get and the more experiences you've had, then learning about these principles will then make you start to listen to that.
But if you're still a much younger age how can you implement that especially if those around you those of influence around you do not create that kind of safe space for you to just go with your intuition and the flow and listening to your body? Well, what you're talking about is that there are people who have narratives about how valid their reactions are. The narratives that people carry is such an important
part of discernment or intentional decision making, but it's actually the middle portion of my book. I have nine chapters. Because when I started working on this content with people, with clients, even sometimes with friends, what I found is that we are tripped up by stories we were told as children and our family or by our culture that we don't recognize our stories. We think they're real. We think they're immutable facts.
And in fact, they're just something that somebody told us. But because they told us that and our mother that and our grandmother that, we all accept it as reality. And so the narratives around whether or not we should listen to our bodies are similar to the narratives of like, do our feelings have merit? And some of it has to do with age.
Some of it has to do with how you're raised. Like, I'm a grandmother. I have a grandson who's four and a granddaughter who's seven. And their mother, my daughter, is very intentional about you don't have to kiss an uncle that makes you feel creepy, and we're honoring your feelings. There's a real difference in how she is raising her children than how I was
raised. But it's not just generational. So the stories tend to be around certain topics, and everybody carries their own stories. But what I try to do is get people to look at assumptions that they're making and saying, Is this true? Is this a story? Does it serve me? So, for example, one of the chapters that I have is the idea of voice. Who gets a voice and who gets
to speak? Right? If you think of a person on a stage in authority, does that person look like you? Is the cultural assumption that people who get to stand up and hold a microphone and hold forth, does that person look like you? For a lot of us, no, that person doesn't look like us. I have a friend who is an expert in her field, like nationally recognized expert
in her field, and she is a self described fat woman. And she says for the first ten minutes she is on a stage, no one sees anything but the size of her body. And so her narratives, like she has to interact with the cultural assumption of who gets to be an expert, who gets to be an authority. And I think for all of us as leaders, particularly those
of us that come from marginalized communities, we need to do that work. What have I been told about who gets to have power? What have I been told about how much money I get to make and whether or not I get to ask for a raise? And do those stories still are they still valid for me? Do they support me? And there are narratives that can
be supportive. Like, my grandparents came to The United States on a boat. So I definitely have that immigrant mentality of like, work hard, provide for your kids, do well in school, which has been supportive and that it has kept me going in difficult times. It's also been limiting and that I have tended towards workaholism. And so it's really just unearthing the operating system that we were told was true
for us to decide, is it still true? Is it helping me? Let's unpack that even more because I think a lot of people struggle with that. And that is why you have things like you know the stress, the anxiety, the depression because one moment you think I'm doing everything right by one why am I not harvesting what I'm supposed to And so if you have messaging that or a
background that can help you in one way but also limit you in another, how do you then distinguish between the two so that you make better decisions for yourself? Well, I think that it takes a lot of work. One of the challenges of a discernment process, which is this really intentionally tuning into what is true for you in kind of your deepest, most authentic level, is it
takes time. It takes some work. Right? So, like, each one of these chapters in my book has a whole bunch of journal prompts and questions that I invite people to sit with. A lot of times people need to explore this with friends and say, Hey, I was always told that if I wasn't a doctor or an engineer, I had no value. And is that true? Right? I mean, women who don't have
children might have been told by their family that they are less than in some way in subtle or not so subtle ways. So sometimes we just have to see them. And I think the challenge of unearthing these narratives is that it can bring up a lot of pain. It can bring up anger, but it is important to see them. It's like otherwise, just kind of walking around in the dark in a
strange house bumping into furniture. And this is just a way to turn on the light and say, oh, there is a large impediment there. How do I navigate around it skillfully? Because this process is not gonna remove those cultural narratives. It's not gonna change your family to celebrate your choices if they don't approve of them. But what it does is it helps you say, this is mine.
That's this is not mine. So you can honor what it is that is calling you to do or what it is that you're drawn to. I've read a lot of books and articles that talk about things like manifesting your dreams and following your heart. And I just want to add a caution to that is that most of us have very real practical guardrails to what it is that
we can do. So an example is, I very much wanted to be a writer. All I wanted to do was write novels. But I found myself in my 20s as unexpectedly a single parent to two young children. I couldn't go to get a graduate degree. I was not in a position where I could not make any money and travel from university to university on fellowships because I had two little kids, and
they needed braces and school and all of those things. And so I made a decision to go into a career that provided me flexibility and the financial stability to be a single mom. Now, my dreams were still there. I have written and published a book. I have continued to write. I just did it in a different way with an intentional commitment to what life
brought me, which is I have to raise these two kids. And so I do think that any decision making process needs to be firmly grounded in the reality of your responsibilities, also in congruence with what your values are. We all have, hopefully, values, ethics. We need to keep those in play as well. And so the idea of a discernment process is it's complex because you are balancing
a number of different things. And I think to say something like follow your dreams is too simplistic when you have elderly parents that you are responsible for or, you know, like physical limitations. Sometimes your dreams or aspirations might need to evolve depending on your circumstances. I'm really glad you said that because I think a lot of people do blame themselves if they have circumstances that are not conducive at the time just
as you've explained with yours but then you have these very well meaning motivational coaches and whatnot who say but Stephanie anything is possible, create your reality, know those narratives that make people think I'm really bad at this. Well and I think there's also a larger piece to this which is we as individuals often blame ourselves for systemic failings. A lot of women are told that they should negotiate more for a career
advancement or raises. Well, that's not the reason they're not moving up the corporate ladder. They're not moving up the corporate ladder because of sexism or racism or ageism. There's a systemic failing that a lot of times we don't want to look at the systemic failing. We don't want to look at the fact that like, wow, in The United States, if you don't have a job, it's really hard to get affordable
health care. And so a lot of people stay at really terrible corporate jobs because they have a sick family member or they can't afford to get health care any other way. Well, to turn to a person that's in that circumstance and say, you know, you really lack ambition, you really should be working harder, is assuming that they have individual responsibility for something that is a systemic problem.
And there's a real tendency to do that, and I understand that. We want easy answers. We want to be able to click here, buy this class, and we will within twenty minutes understand whatever the model is, and then we'll be able to move forward. And again, I say this as a person who is selling a book on decision making, but the book on decision making says, you know, this
might take you three months, six months. It's gonna be hard, and you have to stay grounded in reality. And that's a harder sell than download my free PDF and you will magically know how to manifest all your dreams. But that's not the world I live in. Yes. And I love that you used your own experiences because I think a lot of the time most who tend to
be idealistic there are times where they just use those talking points without actually having lived to those principles. Maybe that's why sometimes it just sounds a little shallow for somebody who's going through some really challenging times or have some really challenging circumstances in their lives and they just make it a little simplistic. You know, live in late stage capitalism. People like a four step framework.
They like somebody who feels aspirational. Like, look at her. She's a best selling author. She's got millions of dollars. She's a celebrity. We want that package. I think that part of what I try to do is be realistic about what my experience is. Whenever I speak in public, I say I am 63 years old.
It's funny because when I started doing this, I remember speaking at a conference in my 50s, I was talking to women about negotiating. And people did an intake of breath as if I was admitting some deep, dark secret. Because being over 50 can be challenging in the workplace with ageism. And people would come up to me and be like, You know, you don't look
like you're 50. You could lie and people would think you're 40. And I'm like, But that assumes that there's something wrong with being 63, that I should pretend to be less than 63. I am sick. I was born in 1962. That is the reality of my experience. And I have a knowledge and experience and a depth of wisdom that is of
value. You know, talking about where we are in a way that doesn't play with the cultural narratives can be really empowering. I think that's one of the reasons people enjoy reading my substack or reading my book. I published my first book traditionally, like, through a publisher last year when I was 62. I've been trying to do that. Big. You know? For you know, since I was in college.
I mean, it would have been nice if it had happened sooner. It would be nice if it was, like, some crazy bestseller, but I hope that that is an example. You can defy the cultural narratives and then show other people how to do that. The systemic failures you were talking about, that's a great example. And also that never feel like it's too late because just like you said when
you published your book last year we were 62 sometimes some of us especially us women because of those systemic failures again feel like I didn't have the opportunity in my 20s is it over for me to sign up for a ballet class or do something I've always wanted to do before I get married and had kids and life took me in a different direction but I think that especially now with all
that's available to us we just need to remember that it's never too late. It is never too late but I think it also depends on like there is a narrative about what success looks like. I think some of us need to redefine what success looks like. You know, for some people, success looks like a certain amount of money in the bank, being able to retire at 50 and travel around the
world. Some people think success looks like having a spouse and having children. So sometimes we have to reframe what success looks like. So I had all sorts of dreams about what was going to happen with my little book, Right. And I had all these daydreams and all these things were going to happen. I was going to be so famous. And that has not transpired.
I got very disappointed. And what I had to do was stop and say, Okay, I wrote this book to try to be helpful. You know, lots of people have bought the book. And how many people do I need to be helpful to for it to be a success for me? Five? 10? You know, if there are seven people out there in the world who read my book and really felt that it
helped them make a decision or tune into their inner knowing or connect with something larger than themselves, that is a huge win. Right? And I think we're so connected, or at least I am, connected to how many followers do I have, how many likes, how many people bought my book or watched this piece of content that we forget that it also, at least for me, it can count if it's a dozen
people. I do a podcast called the Bad Boss Brief with my old friend Eugene Robinson. He is a musician, and he will do a show with his band for five people or 5,000. He said, because even if it's five people, they showed up, and I'm gonna honor the fact that they showed up. And so part of it is it's never too late, but also let's be careful
about what we're thinking of success as being. Because I could be here crushed that my book has sold hundreds of copies as opposed to tens of thousands of copies. Or I could reframe the narrative and say, you know, if I had everybody that bought a book show up at my house, there would be too many people to fit in my home. And I've decided that's successful. Right.
If my own definition. Yes. And I and I think it is important to recognize that, again, it's whose story of success is this? Right. Like rich and famous does not seem to be in the cards for me. That doesn't mean that I can't have a big beautiful life. And ask yourself, do you want to be rich and famous and have everything that
comes with that? Exactly. Because you like all the frills and the picture perfect looking part of it but do you like what comes with because it comes with every it's a everything is a package. Right. If you say I wanted to have kids and a husband and a house and a picket fence and a dog, if it didn't happen do I feel like again definition of success.
So my life is lacking something. Do I feel like everything that comes with that package will I choose this life or would I still crave that what I feel like I didn't have? I think a lot of the time we don't think about that. We just think, oh, look. They're all in cameras and tabloids and TV and everything. Do you want everything that comes with a package?
Right. And again, this is the story of what you have been told success looks like. And if you can really hone in on what is your motivation. And, you know, when I focus on I wanna help people. That is really what I'm I'm trying to do. And I know some things. I've been suit through some things. I have some experience, and I want to use
that to help other people. If that's what I'm here to do, then I don't get to decide how many people that is. That's kind of out of my hands. And part of that is also whether you call it a spiritual practice or an intention or whatever language you use, that is grounding for me. Like, I'm here to be of service. The results are out of my hands.
I do the work and I just put it out into the world and see what ends up happening. I love that. So Stephanie, if anybody's listening and wants to be more in tune with the genius of their bodies so that it helps them make better decisions, what can you tell them to go and do starting today? Find a space where you can intentionally listen to your body.
Take a walk, any kind of movement, and don't have distractions. So go for a walk in the forest without headphones. Leave your phone behind. I enjoy swimming. Try to do something where you're doing a rhythmic movement and just see what arises, not intellectually, but what is in your body. Sometimes you can do a body scan like, wow, there's a lot of tension in
my neck and shoulders. Is there an emotion that's attached with that? So trying to move your body and see what happens. For some people, focusing on the senses can be useful. One of the things I suggest in the book is take a sense a day, focus on hearing and listen to your favorite music, have calming noises in the background,
pay attention to what you're hearing. The next day, pay attention to what you're eating. Eat your favorite foods. Drink your favorite drinks. Really just, I'm going to be in my body and enjoy this. And really just sort of pay attention. See what comes up for you around activity. It could be around sex or sensuality. Like just anything that you're using your body to do, see what arises.
There are many times where I get in the swimming pool in one frame of mind, and as I'm swimming, all of a sudden, something comes up. And a lot of times, it doesn't have language. It's like, I'll be super angry or super sad or just kind of giddy and happy. And I think to myself, oh, my shoulders had something to say today in this
swim. It's almost like a scavenger hunt. Like, my body's trying to give me clues, and I'm gonna try to pick up the clues or, like, a detective story. Like, what does that mean? And, again, if it doesn't resonate for you, there are other ways that you can explore. But the idea is to say, you know what? The intellectual, rational understanding is probably the weakest way to make decisions because it is,
for me at least, the most influenced by false narratives and cultural stereotypes. And what I want to do is to tune into the channel of my heart, my soul, my authentic being, however you phrase that, so that I can have my own compass. Which everybody has. We have our own compasses. Words of wisdom from Stephanie Peirolo, the author, executive coach, business badass who is a
non adjacent recovering alcoholic, the host of Bad Boss Brief podcast. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much. And if you'd like more information, my website is spayrollo.com. That's speirolo.com. And you can find more about my professional coaching, also personal coaching, and more about the book and other things that I write and other places where I
speak. So thank you so much for having me, Roberta. I really appreciated being here today. It was my pleasure, Stephanie. I enjoyed it as well. Don't forget to subscribe. Leave a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify, stay tuned for more episodes to come.