Speaking and Communicating Podcast

[00:02] Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host, Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Now, let's get communicating with our guest today. Joining us from Idaho, Jim Tracy is a Grampian, a CEO of over 30 years, fellow podcaster, and best-selling author. He's also a jet pilot. He speaks on workplace culture and will help us today to deal with uncertainty. And before I go any further, please help me welcome him to the show. Hi, Jim.

[00:58] Speaker 2: Wow, thank you so much. What an honor to be here, Roberta. Thank you.

[01:03] Speaker 1: And I'm honored that you've joined us. Thank you so much. Welcome to the show. Now, they call you the curator of culture. How did that come about?

[01:15] Speaker 2: You know, I was working with a client and, and, uh, they actually came up with that name on their own, and then they told it to me. And I was... At first, I was a bit offended because I thought, "Uh, a curator? That sounds like an old museum guy." And they said, "Exactly. That's the person. Curator comes from the Latin root word to care for. And if you care for a culture, you then become the curator of culture." And I said, "Uh, you know, I kinda like that now." So, um, it actually came from a client, and I was helping them to try to revive their culture.

[01:52] Speaker 1: Mm. I'm glad that you communicated to the client your concern about the term.

[01:59] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[01:59] Speaker 1: And it turns out that you misunderstood because that's always what we highlight, that a lot of the time, misunderstandings come from Jim says something to me. Instead of asking him to explain, I make my own assumptions, and then there's tension or we, we fight, and there's conflict.

[02:16] Speaker 2: Yeah. What I heard is this. Did you really mean that? And then, people get to open up and be direct with one another. It solves a lot of problems.

[02:28] Speaker 1: It always does, for sure.

[02:30] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[02:30] Speaker 1: So, when it comes to culture, first of all, how would you describe what workplace culture is?

[02:37] Speaker 2: You know, um, there's a friend of mine. His name is Clint Pulver, and he wrote a book called I Love It Here. And so, when you have people who you work with, and I don't have anyone that works for me, I only work with people. If you have people that you work with, if they want to come to work and they derive satisfaction from the actual performance of their duties that they're actually doing for their family, if they derive satisfaction from that because you empower them to do that, that's what I look at. When I, when I go visit businesses, people often hire me to come and say, "Hey, help our management team." And so I go in, but I don't ever go in the front door. I don't ever take the, the elevator up to the ivory tower.

[03:21] Speaker 2: I go to the loading dock, I go to the manufacturing floor, I go to the shop, where, at that point, you get to actually l- talk to the people who make the money, who do the work, and that'll tell you a lot more about a business than sitting with some CEO in a Brooks Brothers suit.

[03:39] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. You remind me of a previous guest who shared a story of, actually, the opposite of that. So, one of the CEOs that they had, um, w- they had worked with, you know, the, the company, but when they heard that the CEO actually parks far away from where everybody parks 'cause he doesn't want to interact with anyone, he uses the back elevator so that he doesn't have to say hello.

[04:09] Speaker 2: (laughs) Oh, my.

[04:09] Speaker 1: He actually avoids talking to people.

[04:14] Speaker 2: Wow. You know, one of the things I found out, um, people ask me, you know, I, uh, when, when we got... When we went over 100 employees, uh, it was very difficult to continue to touch and, and, and impact people's lives. And, and so, when we were about 50 employees, I started, uh, doing what I called the most important task of my month, and the most important task of my month was hand-writing a birthday card to every employee and then, and then mailing it to their home. And I had people who came to me, and, you know, when you get 150'd and then 200, that becomes a lot of cards. So, help- someone help me address them, and so... But I also s- I always found something that I could say that was encouraging about that person or about the job that they did or about the crew that they were on or, or the customer satisfaction that they created by something that they did.

[05:14] Speaker 2: You can always find something positive to say to someone, and when the leader takes time to put it in writing, and I mean with one of these, when you put it in writing, uh, with a pen, and you write that, and you, and you write their name individually, and you sign your name individually, I've had m- I've had men come to me, um, after, and, and I mean people that are a little bit longer in the tooth, and they come to me, and sometimes they s- even wept because it meant so much that the big boss got them a birthday card. That was my most important job. That's what retained the family feeling in a business that had gr- outgrown the family.

[05:55] Speaker 1: Mm. Because, first of all, they are seen, and you show that the work that they do matters.

[06:02] Speaker 2: Mm.

[06:02] Speaker 1: Because that's all it need... So, the ones that you spoke to that were satisfied...What is the did they actually specifically mention some of the things that made them feel that way about the workplace?

[06:16] Speaker 2: You know, um, it, it depends. If you're talking about my company, I was very, very engaged on a daily basis with the people who actually did the work. And I, I, I, I, I f-... I, I put off the stuff that, that I was supposed to do sometimes. I found somebody else to, to do the administrative stuff so I could stay with the people. Because in a service industry, the people are what build the business. All I did was, like, put the chess pieces in the right place so they could, so they could play the game. And so, when I spent time with them, that became my most important task. What I find is that when other companies that I consult with are chasing growth, that they forget about the engine that creates growth.

[07:07] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[07:07] Speaker 2: And the engine that creates growth is the people who actually do the work. And sometimes it could be out in the field. Sometimes it could be on a manufacturing floor. I've got another one, that agricultural customer, where, you know what? The, the cows don't take care of themselves.

[07:24] Speaker 1: They have a shepherd for sure. (laughs)

[07:26] Speaker 2: They do, and you know what? He needs to feel like he's important to the organization. And so regardless of what you do, there's somebody actually doing the work. And we, as leaders, need to be very cognizant that we don't get paid if they don't do their job.

[07:43] Speaker 1: Hmm. That's very true. As you said, they are the engine that creates the growth. And-

[07:49] Speaker 2: Oh, yes.

[07:50] Speaker 1: ... when you work with leaders in organizations who come to you and they say, "Jim, this is our challenge," what is it-

[08:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[08:00] Speaker 1: ... that they usually say is their challenge when it comes to leading people?

[08:06] Speaker 2: You know, um, one of the things that I have done is crafted something called the Culture Revival Blueprint. And people say, "Why do you call it a blueprint?" Well, if you're gonna build something, you have to have a design. And you have to have a foundation that holds up the rest of the thing, uh, whatever it is. A house, a building, whatever. And so I created the Cultural Revival Blueprint, which is exactly... It's a blueprint that takes you back. You take a step back and say, "What is the business that I wanted to build, and does it feel like that today? Does it feel like that to the people who work here?" And so often, I come across entrepreneurs who say, "You know what? I really don't like where our business has gone." And sometimes we have to take a step back and say, "Where did you want to st-... Eh, where...

[08:57] Speaker 2: What did you want it to feel like for people who worked here when you began the business?" And so we begin the process of rebuilding a mindset that rebuilds a framework, that rebuilds a culture, that revives the people who are actually doing the work. And it can only be empowered at this... at the, at the leader level. Because if the leader doesn't care, everybody knows. If the leader cares, everybody knows. And if they don't, we need to show 'em how to care. And if they do, we need to show 'em how to express that care to the people who are, like you said, are the engine of growth and, and, and process. And, and everything, everything good that our customers experience comes from the hands of our people.

[09:47] Speaker 1: That is very true. Now, the clients that are leaders, do any of them come to you and they say, "Jim, I thought the promotion was gonna be great. But the first thing I noticed was-

[10:01] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[10:01] Speaker 1: ... I don't wanna deal with people"? (laughs) I had a previous guest do that.

[10:06] Speaker 2: Yeah. I recently met with a guy...

[10:09] Speaker 1: (laughs) Right. Cl- sorry, go ahead.

[10:12] Speaker 2: Yeah. I recently met with a guy, and he was at the head of an organization, and he said... I said, "How are you doing? How are you... How, how is your life right now?" And he goes, "You know, my life is good, but I hate my job."

[10:27] Speaker 1: Oh, no.

[10:28] Speaker 2: I'm like, "Okay." So, but that's always, that's always fixable.

[10:33] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[10:33] Speaker 2: So, he's the leader of the entire organization. And I said, "So tell me, what do you hate about your job?" "Well, I just don't like the administration." I'm like, "Okay. So let's break that down. What are three things that you don't like to do?"

[10:47] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[10:47] Speaker 2: And he said, "Well, uh, this, this, and this." And they were all administrative in nature. I said, "So do you think that there's anybody in your organization who could do the first one, like the one you hate the most?" And he- he's like, "I don't know." "Well, let me tell you, there is, because if you're doing a terrible job at it, I can find somebody who'd do it."

[11:06] Speaker 1: Right.

[11:06] Speaker 2: "We..." I can find a, I can find a clerk that would do that and then maybe hand it off for your review, but I can find somebody to do that job. And number two, the same thing, and number three, the same thing. So if you're a leader and you hate your job, everybody knows it. So let's fix that.

[11:22] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[11:22] Speaker 2: And the way we fix that is... I always talk about when, when we were growing our business, I was really worried I needed to bid every project. I needed to stay involved and engaged. And so when I created those bids to do telecommunications infrastructure, I made sure that we made the margin. I made sure I was in control, and guess what? I was the bottleneck. And then I figured out that when I handed it off, and pretty soon I was, like, going, "You know what? That guy's doing a nice job on those bids. As a matter of fact, we're actually picking up a couple points of margin when he bids it. He's doing a better job than I did." And then the bids got bigger, and s- pretty soon I was saying, "You know, if it's not over a million dollars, you guys just handle that." And then I was off doing what I was supposed to do instead of what I didn't want to do anyway. And they did a better job at it.It was wonderful.

[12:15] Speaker 1: But you had to discover that they would do a better job, because I think a lot of leaders, also, when they get promoted, they think, "Are they gonna be able to do it as well as I would?" (laughs) 'Cause you usually get promoted 'cause you're very good at your technical skills, right?

[12:32] Speaker 2: Correct, correct.

[12:33] Speaker 1: And so it's very hard to trust handing it over, delegating it to your team, and say, uh, "Uh, are, are you gonna be as good as I was (laughs) when I was doing this in your position?"

[12:45] Speaker 2: Exactly. And, but most of the time, what I find is with leaders, they need someone who has a little outside influence and doesn't have, uh, what we would call a dog in the fight. Um, it's not important to me that whether you do bids or not, Jim. I'm just telling you, you're the bottleneck. And from the outside looking in, it's a lot easier to see. And when you have a leader that's looking for help, then they're open to change and they're open to listening.

[13:16] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[13:17] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[13:17] Speaker 1: Now let's talk about, you call it management by cliche. What do you mean by that?

[13:25] Speaker 2: (laughs) Okay. Um, I, I, uh, um, I, I wrote my first book called Building Men, and, and, and the publisher came back to me, and they said, "This is awesome. What's your next one?" And I'm like, "I (laughs) have no idea." But I'd been collecting a, a list of proverbs, business proverbs that had worked over time. And then we, we, we added ones as we built our own business. And so these are ... There's a book coming out, hopefully in February, if I can, if I can get my act together. Um, there's a book coming out in February called Management by Cliche, and it's business proverbs that worked. And there's a lot, a lot of business proverbs out there. These are ones that have actually proven themselves in the marketplace over time, and we're so proud of this work. And, uh, the publisher has actually made the decision to make it a hardback now, because it's more of a, more of a, uh, it's an educational book.

[14:31] Speaker 2: And so on, on one side of the, of the c- of the page will be the proverb, and then who said it, where I ... 'Cause I, most of them, like any good idea, they're stolen. And then on the right side-

[14:43] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[14:43] Speaker 2: ... will be the story about what I learned and where I learned it from with that, with that proverb.

[14:50] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. We're gonna look forward to that. Management-

[14:53] Speaker 2: All right.

[14:53] Speaker 1: Management by cliche. The proverbs.

[14:57] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[14:57] Speaker 1: Okay. When it comes to general, generational harmony ...

[15:03] Speaker 2: Mm.

[15:03] Speaker 1: Uh, some of the things that we've addressed on the show are the communication aspect. We grew up, when we entered the workplace, the, it was very formal communication, writing, you know. (laughs) You put the letter on the letterhead and it sounds very professional.

[15:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[15:20] Speaker 1: But now-

[15:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[15:21] Speaker 1: ... you have a generation that grew up with texting language. Th- it's a little more informal, and when they enter the workplace, you have the age of Jim and Roberta, but then you have-

[15:34] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

[15:34] Speaker 1: ... a Gen Z joining our team.

[15:38] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[15:38] Speaker 1: And there's this huge communication gap. How do you handle that? And have you had clients who come to you and say, "Jim, what are we gonna do with these kids?" (laughs)

[15:49] Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You know, and, and in all fairness, I have to look f- at a b- with a broader perspective. Um, and in Building Men, I look at, uh, in, in that book, I looked at my grandfather. He was the first one I looked at, and he was born in 1903, so he was part of the Greatest Generation. And then there's my father, born in 1925, part of the Silent Generation. And there's me. I'm a Baby Boomer. My, my oldest son, Ryan, he is a, a, uh, Millennial. And then you got Gen Y, and now you got all, uh, g- it's G- Y and Z and all the way now to Alpha. That's my grandkids. Well, I had two quin- granddaughters born this year, so that's 2025. And my grandpa was born in 1903. That's 122 years of experience. I got along with all of them. And people say, "Well yeah, but that's family." I'm like, "Well, let me, wait a, let's take, dial that back a minute." If you talked to the people who were the Greatest Generation, do you know what they said about the Silent Generation?

[16:53] Speaker 2: They said, "Their music's bad, they dress funny, and I don't like the way that they're disrespectful." And then those people, the Silent Generation, what did they say about me?

[17:04] Speaker 1: Uh, ous.

[17:05] Speaker 2: The, the, the Boomers, the hippies. They said, "They wear those bell bottom jeans and they listen to that s- terrible rock and roll, and, and, and they're lazy." And then what did the Boomers say about the Millennials? "I can't stand that heavy metal music. I abhor the way they dress, and they're so disrespectful." What are the Millennials now saying about the next generation? They're saying, "That rap music, and those kids don't know how to dress, and they're so unbelievably lazy." And it's gone-

[17:36] Speaker 1: I'm sensing a theme, a pattern. (laughs)

[17:39] Speaker 2: The kinda pattern has been set. So-

[17:42] Speaker 1: Right.

[17:42] Speaker 2: ... what we have forgotten is people don't care what you know until they know that you care. And when they know that you care, um, I, I, I, I use my hand as an example. There's three fingers. The first, biggest thing that we need to do, the biggest finger in the middle, is to listen. We generously listen with people. And then the ring finger is to remind me that we need to build a relationship.

[18:10] Speaker 1: Mm.

[18:10] Speaker 2: And we do that by gifting our time. And then the third one is about respect. And the question I always ask-... large crowds in particular from the stage is, is respect given or is respect earned? And half the crowd, usually the older half, is gonna say, "Well, that's gotta be earned," and the younger half usually says, "Well, it's gotta be given." And I s- And my answer is yes. So if you give respect before it's earned or you earn respect before it's given, who wins? You do.

[18:47] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[18:49] Speaker 2: You do. But also they do.

[18:52] Speaker 1: Right.

[18:52] Speaker 2: Everybody wins. Everybody wins. If they... If I give them respect and they do a great job, I can give them a pat on the back. If I give them the respect to do this task and they mess it up, I get to go coach them on how to do it right.

[19:10] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[19:10] Speaker 2: See, if somebody who works for me makes a mistake, it's not their... It's not on them, it's on me. I get to go... I get an opportunity to say, "There's a lesson, not an error." And I'm really happy, 'cause at the end of this, you're probably not gonna make that mistake again.

[19:25] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. That respect back and forth, I think, you know how if there's conflict and then there needs to be reconciliation, everybody wonders, is Jim gonna reach out to Roberta first or is Roberta-

[19:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[19:40] Speaker 1: ... gonna reach out to Jim first? So is the respect earned or should I give it first and then they earn it? There's always that who goes first.

[19:49] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[19:49] Speaker 1: It's almost like a, a power struggle. If I go first and I reach out and, uh, you know, for reconciliation, for, for, uh, for giving respect, am I losing power in this dynamic?

[20:02] Speaker 2: Hmm. Do you know what I find the mo- two most difficult words in American business are?

[20:07] Speaker 1: Hm.

[20:09] Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

[20:11] Speaker 1: Most difficult?

[20:12] Speaker 2: Mm. Most difficult. I'm sorry. To admit your mistake, your error, your fault, your weakness in American business is to take your ego and tuck it away where it doesn't belong, in a pocket where people don't get to look at it, and you get to go, "You know what? My bad. I really would like to make this better. Let's work together to make sure that we can, that we can make this something that's mended rather than something that's broken."

[20:42] Speaker 1: Hmm. Would you say that it's usually those in upper management or leadership who struggle with that, or just in general, everybody?

[20:52] Speaker 2: I'll tell you a story. There was a... There was a f- conference that I was at and, and I was with a friend who was actually in The Book Building Men. And, and, and I, I, I, I wrote about him because he's so fantastic. Here's one of the reasons why. We were standing at the back of the conference room, and there was a very arrogant man giving a speech, and he was talking about him and his company and his group and his process and his illustrious career and why he was so much better than anybody else. And we saw these two little old men at the table in front of us, and one of these little old men, they scribbled a note, and he slid it over to the other one, and, uh, the other one looked at it, and he nodded his head to his friend, and then he folded the note and put it back on the table.

[21:41] Speaker 2: And John said to me, he said, "I'm gonna find out what that note says."

[21:44] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[21:44] Speaker 2: "We got something to learn." So we waited until the room cleared out, and we went and we looked at the note, and there were three words on it, "Ego blocks wisdom."

[21:58] Speaker 1: Ooh.

[22:01] Speaker 2: Mm. Ego blocks wisdom. And from the, from the, uh, opinion of the people who were listening, both me and my friend and the two men at the table, it certainly was blocking wisdom, wasn't it?

[22:20] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[22:21] Speaker 2: Yeah. And so that, that can, that can come from anywhere. It can come from any level of leadership, but it's something that needs to be n- Uh, when, when, when you're w- when you're... think you're so important that you edge others out, you're really in a bad place. You're really in a bad place. And, and-

[22:43] Speaker 1: And what's there to learn? 'Cause like you said, it blocks wisdom.

[22:47] Speaker 2: Hmm.

[22:47] Speaker 1: If your ego is telling you that you've, you, you know, you've got it made, you know everything, obviously not gonna learn anything new.

[22:57] Speaker 2: Yeah. And information is certainly important, but it's different than wisdom.

[23:03] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[23:03] Speaker 2: Wisdom is simply the application of knowledge. So we take in information to give us knowledge, but then in order to actually make it useful, we have to apply it in real life. And if we apply it in real life and no one listens, it's useless.

[23:20] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[23:20] Speaker 2: But if we apply it in real life in a way that people can take it in and use it and utilize it, it's a wonderful thing. It's called mentorship.

[23:30] Speaker 1: Yes.

[23:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[23:32] Speaker 1: Yes.

[23:33] Speaker 2: You know, and-

[23:33] Speaker 1: Like we were saying earlier. Sorry, go ahead.

[23:35] Speaker 2: Yeah. In the culture today, I think if you look back at that silent generation to the greatest generation, they mentored one another. And then to s- to... Much the same way, my generation, we still had apprenticeships in the boomers.

[23:50] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[23:50] Speaker 2: And we still had ways to learn, and there were processes that we could use that were predictable to get ahead. And then the generation behind us was the first group of children who didn't have anybody at home. They called them latchkey kids. So when they got home from school, there was no one there. They were kind of on their own. And then to fill that void, then we introduced electronics, and now we've got another generation coming up, especially in the Gen Zs. They have never known life without a super computer in their hand. They have all the information. We can't add any information to what they already have.

[24:30] Speaker 1: Mm-mm.

[24:31] Speaker 2: But what we can do is teach them how to apply the information. That's what they're lacking, and that's what mentorship is all about.

[24:39] Speaker 1: And that's where the wisdom will come from.

[24:42] Speaker 2: Yes.

[24:43] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[24:44] Speaker 2: And es- especially if you do a... If you have a repeated application of, of knowledge that's successful, then you're... now you're stacking. Now you're stacking. You're going good on top of good on top of good. And then you learn that there's reward for that.

[25:01] Speaker 1: Right.

[25:03] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:03] Speaker 1: Yes, definitely there is... There can be generational harmony, as you just described-

[25:09] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[25:09] Speaker 1: ... that, you know, you, you can get along with everybody. (laughs) And it seems as though-

[25:13] Speaker 2: You have to.

[25:14] Speaker 1: ... (laughs) it seems as though each generation judges the next. Most of it baseless, I would say. I think it's-

[25:22] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

[25:22] Speaker 1: ... more a, you know, as humans we have this comfort zone of, "I want things to remain the same."

[25:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[25:28] Speaker 1: And so when the next generation starts to do things differently, that's when we start with all the criticism you just mentioned earlier.

[25:35] Speaker 2: And how fair would it be if I took... if I went to someone in the generation older to me and I started doing a stunk because they didn't know how to use this computer that I knew how to use?

[25:45] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[25:45] Speaker 2: It would be like one of my children or my grandkids handing me a Apple phone. I don't have an Apple. I have an Android and I don't know how to use an Apple, but, uh, they, they can't really get mad at me because I don't know how to Apple. But they can teach me.

[26:00] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[26:00] Speaker 2: They can show me. They can help me. So... Um, and I can do the same with them. There are some things that I know, like the ge- okay, Gen Zs is the second generation that doesn't really have the skillset of reading a tape measure.

[26:18] Speaker 1: Have you ever done it in school?

[26:21] Speaker 2: They say, "Oh, that's seven and five little lines." Was that 5/16 or is that 5/8 ? They don't know. They've never been taught. They never really grabbed ahold of fractions because they all had calculators. So our generation has to teach them in the construction business to use a tape measure. Should we do that harshly or should we do that gently?

[26:45] Speaker 1: I just assumed that, you know, math teachers still do that in school despite the calculators and the iPads and-

[26:53] Speaker 2: Nope.

[26:53] Speaker 1: ... everything. Okay.

[26:55] Speaker 2: Nope. Yeah, they, they understand the decimal part of it, but they don't really understand the fraction part of it.

[27:00] Speaker 1: Mm. Interesting.

[27:02] Speaker 2: And you can't build a house without understanding a tape measure. Otherwise it's gonna end up pretty crooked.

[27:08] Speaker 1: Oh, no.

[27:09] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[27:09] Speaker 1: And no architect will be able to take those measurements and do something with that. (laughs)

[27:14] Speaker 2: There you go.

[27:15] Speaker 1: Right. Now, the last thing I wanted us to just find out quickly from you is, you say that uncertainty can be our friend. And I don't know if you've heard of the VUCA concept. Volatile, uncertain, complex, and this ambiguous environment that fi- leaders especially find themselves in. How can we make uncertainty our friend?

[27:40] Speaker 2: Well, um, I, I have, uh, a speech that I give that's called Embrace Uncertainty, and it was really a favor to me because I was gonna do a speech for a group and they said, "Hey, Jim, you're a great speaker. We want you to come and talk to our group and there's gonna be 700 of us in a room and, and, and, uh, uh, what speech do you wanna give us?" And I said, "Well, I think, you know, I, I do a terrific one that would... Most of the people in your room are leaders, that I should talk about leadership." And they're like, "No.

[28:12] Speaker 2: We don't want you to talk about that."

[28:14] Speaker 1: (laughs)

[28:14] Speaker 2: And I said, "Why? I, like, uh..." But much... Uh, I'll give myself a little pat on the back, I decided to listen instead of talk. (laughs) And, uh, and I said, "What would you like me to speak about? What, what are your concerns? What are the pain points that you're finding in your industry?" And they said, "Well, there's, uh, interest rates and there's inventories and there's layoffs and there's this." And they listed about seven different things and I said, "It sounds like a pretty uncertain environment." And they-

[28:47] Speaker 1: Hmm.

[28:47] Speaker 2: That's it. So I crafted a speech to embrace uncertainty and, and, and here's the premise of it. Are you worried about interest rates going up or going down?

[29:00] Speaker 1: Going up. 'Cause then it's gonna cost more, especially if you have a mortgage in this country. It's gonna cost more.

[29:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, but what if you're a banker? What if you're a banker and the rates go down? Then you don't make as much. See, here's the point.

[29:15] Speaker 1: It depends where you are. (laughs)

[29:15] Speaker 2: If you're worried about interest rates going up or down, you're right. They will. They're going to change. And so if you prepare for change in going up or going down, then are you ahead of the competition who's gonna sit there and fret about it? Or, or are you planning in advance? And now uncertainty becomes an advantage, an obvious advantage for you over your competition. What about... What about raw material prices? Are they gonna go up or down?

[29:51] Speaker 1: They usually go up.

[29:53] Speaker 2: Yep. Yep. They... One way or the other they're gonna go up or they're gonna go down.

[29:56] Speaker 1: They're gonna go up.

[29:56] Speaker 2: What about customers who want... Do they want lower price or higher price? Well, they usually want lower price.

[30:02] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[30:02] Speaker 2: Then we have to pass it along. But, but you know that, so if you're trimming and you're looking for ways to become more efficient and scale your business before you need it, are you gonna have an advantage over your competition?

[30:18] Speaker 1: Of course.

[30:20] Speaker 2: Of course you are. Okay. And what about COVID? What, what if there's another COVID headed our way? Um, should we be worried about that? No, we should prepare for it. How do you prepare for it? You think about it, you create contingency plans, you talk to your people about it. People are gonna bring you great ideas. And what if our only supplier says, "Hey, I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm gonna get out of this business." Well, what do we do?

[30:48] Speaker 2: We prepare to replace them, either by vertical integration and doing it ourselves or by finding another supplier and saying, "Hey, let's share the wealth."

[30:58] Speaker 1: Mm. Hmm.

[30:59] Speaker 2: All of the things in life are tremendously uncertain, and if we do an adequate job of preparing and embracing uncertainty, if we're, if we're afraid of it, then we tend to shut it out and ignore it.

[31:15] Speaker 1: But it's not-

[31:16] Speaker 2: That's not an appropriate response.

[31:17] Speaker 1: ... gonna go away.

[31:17] Speaker 2: It's never gonna go away. So the only thing that we should be embracing is change.

[31:23] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[31:25] Speaker 2: And change is uncertain, and people don't like uncertainty, but when they learn to embrace uncertainty, guess what happens? They win.

[31:34] Speaker 1: They have the advantage, yeah.

[31:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[31:36] Speaker 1: Because it's almost like uncertain ... Yes, we know change is for sure, which means uncertainty, we know it's not ... I, I have no guarantees yet, except for death and taxes. But anything else is not guaranteed.

[31:52] Speaker 2: (laughs)

[31:52] Speaker 1: (laughs) That's all I'm saying. So if I know-

[31:54] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[31:54] Speaker 1: ... anything else is not guaranteed, that means I should just constantly be planning and making those contingency plans.

[32:02] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And watching ahead. You know, many times, um, when, when we think we can't see things in advance, actually there's a lot of tells out there that show us what's coming. And it doesn't matter whether it's an industry. I, I was part of a, I was part of an industry where they had, they, they put together this, uh, it was an original equipment manufacturer supplier, and they put together this product and it was, like, super wonderful at first, but then we realized that as time went on and as vibration happened, it wasn't so great.

[32:38] Speaker 2: And so we realized this before the customer realized it, and-

[32:43] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[32:43] Speaker 2: ... and one of the guys in my book, Building Men, said, "Hey, we have to come up with a way to solve that problem before the customer figures out there's a problem." And he did.

[32:53] Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good one. So be ahead of it, yes.

[32:56] Speaker 2: Yeah. And so what he did was he went on his own money and he got a, a, a sample product for them to test in case this problem that he knew was coming-

[33:09] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[33:09] Speaker 2: ... would ever present it to them. And they were like, "Wow, that's awesome." And they wrote him a purchase order on the spot.

[33:16] Speaker 1: Of course. I would also want-

[33:18] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[33:18] Speaker 1: ... my supplier to be solution-driven to even see-

[33:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[33:21] Speaker 1: ... the problem before-

[33:23] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[33:24] Speaker 1: ... I, I notice it. Yes. Any last words of wisdom?

[33:26] Speaker 2: 'Cause a lot of problems are s- are, are unforeseeable.

[33:30] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[33:30] Speaker 2: But they're not ... Unforeseeable does not mean you don't know they're coming. It means you can't see them where they are, but they're-

[33:37] Speaker 1: Right.

[33:37] Speaker 2: ... still coming. And the closer they get to you, you have to recognize them as far away as you can and then respond to them. And make it a game.

[33:48] Speaker 1: A game?

[33:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, have y- have your staff come up with something that can improve a product, that can improve a process, that can improve your performance, and, and, and all of that is gonna, uh, is, is gonna be able to address the change that's coming. And all of a sudden, they're looking down the road and, and you're not the only one responsible for it.

[34:09] Speaker 1: Right. That's where the wisdom is, the collaboration-

[34:13] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[34:13] Speaker 1: ... and as a leader, just knowing that you don't have all the answers. That's why you have a team.

[34:17] Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly. (laughs)

[34:20] Speaker 1: (laughs) Any last words of wisdom? Anything that I haven't asked you today you were hoping to share with us?

[34:26] Speaker 2: Well, I have a wonderful podcast called The Grampian, and I have some guests on there. I have, uh, uh, a guy who was on today with me-

[34:33] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[34:33] Speaker 2: ... and he talks about cybersecurity. And I learned so much from him.

[34:39] Speaker 1: Wow.

[34:40] Speaker 2: That, that, uh, that, uh, I think that the new information medium that you, Roberta, are proffering is helping people. So I wanna say thank you to you, because you helped me learn just like he helped me learn today. And I encourage your audience to subscribe and like. (laughs)

[35:01] Speaker 1: Yes. The Grampian podcast hosted by Jim Tracy. Thank you so much, Jim. And then your book, Building Men, do you think that any of our, uh, female listeners who think, "Why were we excluded from Jim's book?"

[35:19] Speaker 2: Um, you know, that is the first, that is the first response I got, but I'm gonna tell you, uh, if you open the ... Here's the book, Building Men, and if you open it-

[35:30] Speaker 1: Right.

[35:30] Speaker 2: ... to the, to the front, to the very front-

[35:36] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[35:37] Speaker 2: ... there's an acknowledgement in here, and the first thing that I wrote, "The hand that rocks the cradle, is the hand that rules the world," William Ross Wallace, 1865. "This book is dedicated to the women who shaped my life into something better than I deserve." And I talked about-

[36:01] Speaker 1: Thank you. (laughs)

[36:01] Speaker 2: ... my wife and my daughters and my granddaughters. And this book-

[36:05] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

[36:06] Speaker 2: ... uh, the first bestseller I got on Amazon with this book was with single parents.

[36:13] Speaker 1: Wow.

[36:13] Speaker 2: So the moms out there are crushing it, and hopefully I can do a little bit with Building Men to encourage them and help them.

[36:23] Speaker 1: Absolutely. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Jim Tracy, the CEO, podcaster, bestselling author and the Grampian podcast host. We appreciate you being here today. And before you go, where can our listeners find you online?

[36:40] Speaker 2: Um, the best place is thejimtracy.com, T-H-E, thejimtracy.com. There's more than one of us, unfortunately. (laughs)

[36:49] Speaker 1: Of course. (laughs)

[36:49] Speaker 2: So if they go to that, there's where they can find me, and it's easy to contact me.

[36:54] Speaker 1: Okay. Thejimtracy.com. I'll put that in the show notes. Thank you so much, Jim, for being here today.

[37:01] Speaker 2: Roberta, I am so grateful for your time and for the time your audience invests in you.

[37:06] Speaker 1: Appreciate that. Thank you, Jim. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify, and stay tuned for more episodes to come.