Speaking and Communicating Podcast

What do you enjoy? What do you naturally excel at? If you weren't getting paid, what could you do for the rest of your life?

Welcome back to The Speaking and Communicating Podcast.

I am your host Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into.

Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Now, let's get communicating.

Now, let's get communicating with our guest today, Siena Dean. She is a career strategist, a talent development expert, and a senior alumni engagement manager at a non-profit.

She has helped over 500 professionals with their career goals, with defining their purpose, and so much more. And before I go any further, please help me welcome her to the show. Hi, Siena.

Hi.

I'm so happy to be here.

And I'm glad that you're here. Welcome to the show.

1:18

Soft Skills Impact

All the careers you could have chosen. Why help people with their careers?

Yes. And great question. So for me, it started with, I had so many questions about my own career.

I led me on this path of trying to figure out, okay, how can I figure out this thing called navigating career success and trying to make the best of the time that I had in corporate America and things of that nature.

And in doing so, I realized a lot of people had the same questions. And I am all about pulling people along as you move forward. And so the more answers I received, I realized I love helping people just as much as I love gaining those answers.

And so once I found an organization where I can not only pour into myself, but pour into others, I had perfect mission alignment. And I was just like, yeah, I learn every day and I then get to share those lessons with like-minded individuals.

Yeah, and we will talk about alignment during this conversation. So you were in corporate America. Where were you working?

Which industry were you in?

Yes. So I was in clean energy. My mission always led me to be very purposeful, wanting to give back.

But then you graduate undergrad and you want to change the world, but you have no idea on how to do it. And I was like, I know I want to help people. So let me try in as many ways as possible to help people.

And so try the clean energy thing, which is very important, but it wasn't this lane for me. Before pivoting into something new, I really started pouring into myself, learning a lot about the power of communication, self-advocacy, confidence.

And I was like, these are really important tools that shaped my career trajectory more than anything else that I've done, and I'm happy to talk about that later on.

And so I wanted to be very intentional in the next role that I had, that one, it allowed me to continue to work on those skills, but also to be able to help others realize the power of soft skills.

That's what we talk about on the show, the soft skills and the communication skills.

When you say that you made the decision to work on those skills, was that something that somebody brought to your attention, or what made you come to the realization that, wait a minute, outside of just college, outside of just work, this is

Yeah, it's interesting.

My mom was in sales pretty much my entire life. From a very young age, she taught me how to turn it on. Some people might know you show different parts of yourself depending on your environment.

At a very young age, I learned those different parts of myself. As a child, I was not that good at turning the various parts of me on. I was horrible at sales.

She was like, go sell so-and-so. I'm like, but it instilled in me in a very young age the desire for those skill sets. So even in school, I would always try to figure out, okay, how can I take one step further to build my confidence?

How could I take one step further to advance my communication skills? Now that I am ready to really buckle down and focus on career, not only things can I read, but courses can I take to make sure that I was as prepared as possible.

So it started with my mom, and then that seed just continued to grow to where it is today.

That is absolutely amazing, which then brings me to my next question.

So when you help these professionals with their careers, do they find that it's general knowledge that, hey, wait a minute, in addition to what I was trained in at college or university, I need to also work on these soft skills personally?

Absolutely. My organization tends to work with the most talented individuals. So they have the book smarts.

They have the industry expertise. But where they have trouble excelling, they find themselves stuck in middle management for years, it's because they don't know how to tell their story.

And that's really where we step in and say, okay, you know how to do the work. But how do you talk about how you do the work? How do you get comfortable sharing that story with others?

You know, what points do you point out? Anywhere from preparing their evaluations all the way to making their pitch for promotion or just their impact report throughout their organization. Does anyone know your name?

All of those things is where we focus on building more of a round package for our alums.

Let's talk about telling your story, because I've had guests in the past who talk about how, especially if you look at somebody's LinkedIn profile, they'll say worked at General Motors and I did this and I did that.

They say, ah, that's not how you're supposed to write that.

Right. Yeah.

Talk about the impact that you had in doing your work. Previous year, the sales were 500,000, and now they're a million dollars because this is the initiative that I took. You know what I mean?

Because we grew up with just this thing of, oh, I worked here and I did one, two, and three, and four.

Yeah. No, you are touching on such an important point.

And how I have people that I work with think about this is, if you were just having a conversation with someone, we've all been in those conversations when someone, like it's hard to stay connected in the conversation because it all becomes monotone.

I did this and then I did this. Like take them on a journey. You can still do that in written word.

Start where the company began, what you did to implement that change, and then what was that outcome. When people look at your LinkedIn, they should still feel a part of what you accomplished.

And it doesn't take a large paragraph, but what are those key bullets where they can start to paint that picture of saying, oh, okay, I see how this individual went from point A to point B.

And it's really about outlining that journey that makes all the difference.

7:38

Finding Purpose

Right.

Because that's the first part in selling yourself. And then the second thing is the purpose. You were touching on alignment earlier.

How do professionals find out what their purpose is? How did you find out what your purpose is?

That is an excellent question that I wish we were born just knowing our purpose. Life would be so much simpler. So many people, and they're like, I'm in my 50s, and now I think I know what to do.

Like, it's never too late, but wouldn't it just be so much simpler if we were born, I'm like, oh, this is where I'm going one day.

For those who know me, know I am a big proponent of family, and I am so thankful for the seeds and impact that my family poured into me, that I was able to learn a lot of these lessons early.

And that's why also I feel like it's my purpose to share it, because I didn't have to wait first with my mom and sales, but then impact and what's my purpose. So I was on the law path. People told me I would make a great lawyer.

I said, perfect. That's what I'll do. And then it was maybe the summer before I was supposed to graduate college.

My family asked me why. I'll give you the end and then go back and give you the middle. Your why will often lead to your purpose.

Why are you doing what you're doing? And so when they asked me that question, I was like, well, people told me I would make a great lawyer. And they were like, that can't be your why.

Do you think you'll make a great lawyer?

Right.

That can't be your sole motivation for what you do for the next 20, 30 years. I was like, great point. And so they set me on this journey of discovering what actually moves you.

And then once you understand what moves you, it's really important because I think oftentimes people say this makes me happy, but also you have to make sure what also will pay you.

And so trying to align not only what fulfills you, but then what can pay your bills. And the good thing about that is there's a lot more options that we are just not made aware of.

When you're attentional about figuring out your purpose, I realized very early on, I like to help people. I didn't understand fully my purpose yet, but I started plugging in to spaces where I could help people.

And then the more I feel like you're guided towards purpose when you work on yourself. What are your natural skill sets? You know, many of your listeners, I'm sure, are very talented, very brilliant.

You could probably be successful in a lot of things. But what I think many people's key differentiator are, is where they have natural skill sets. Like, where do you naturally excel at things?

So for me, I am a people person through and through. I can connect very well with individuals. And I can even connect with large spaces.

And so I knew, when I like to help people, I do really well with communication and building relationships. And so once you start to build those pieces, then you can look for that career alignment.

And so even though my career will continue to have shifts, I still have that North Star of like, okay, these are the key indicators that I need to look for and everything that I do to make sure that I will be successful.

Because if you put me in a space where I naturally excel, one, it doesn't feel like work, so that makes it easy.

And then two, let's say you're having a rough day or even a month, my 80% is still, many people's 100% in the spaces where I naturally excel.

And that is when you know you are aligned in purpose, when it seems somewhat like a superpower, where people, thankfully, since it is helping people, I've learned how to articulate what I do.

But when you can't really place it, why this works so well, and people are like, how does she do what she does? I don't know, but I love it. Then you're in your purpose.

And so, you know, try to work on yourself. And then you can figure out where to pour into others and figure out what spaces to pour into. But I think it really starts with self.

Once you know yourself, you can find your purpose.

I'm glad, first of all, that you highlighted the paycheck part, because, you know, that's what a lot of parents concern is. Oh, my son just loves art. And you're thinking, are you going to be able to pay your rent, son?

It's amazing with, you mentioned, I've been able to help over 500 individuals in my career thus far.

And none of their careers are anywhere, anything alike. And the amount of exposure to roles that are out there, like what I do, to think that, you know, I would have the opportunity to help people excel in corporate America. Who knew?

Like, that's not something you say, I want to be when I get older. Purpose can likely make you money.

It's just being really intentional in the spaces that you look once you figure out, you know, what you really are good at and where you naturally excel.

It was a winding road. It was something that you eventually got to on your way to your purpose. Also on the purpose part.

So you said you knew that you wanted to help people with the communication skills and you were good at relationship building.

I think the people who suggested that you go to law school, if you think about it, when you're a lawyer, typically you help people. Obviously, they're outliers, but that's a different story.

So you help people, you communicate in court while you're defending your client. And then the relationship building part, yes, you build relationships with the client, you keep the confidences and things like that.

So in a way, I think that they noticed that about you, but it doesn't necessarily mean that those are all the traits, the skills that you need in order to make a great lawyer.

Lawyer, absolutely, because there's still people that tell me, like you should go to law school.

And I think to that piece where I have certain components, but it wasn't until I was on that path and realized lawyers spend a lot of their time writing, researching, you know, those are the things that don't really fill my cup.

I'm trying to keep as close to purpose as possible, where you're never going to love 100% of what you do. But my goal is to love at least 70%, right?

And so oftentimes, those are the people that suggest that I go to law school and pursue becoming a lawyer. Don't really understand what a lawyer is. They just see, like, what's on TV, of course?

Yes, TV does tend to glomerize a lot of things which don't necessarily translate into real life.

Is there an exercise? Is there something you can do in order to have that clarity about your purpose so that you are more confident in stepping into it? Because you understand yourself enough.

14:33

Career Pivot Strategy

Yeah.

So what I would say where I have people start is going back to, what do you enjoy? What do you naturally excel at? If you weren't getting paid, what could you do for the rest of your life?

If it's a short list, top five. And it can be as complex or as vague as possible, like as you make it. When I just started helping people, that was very vague.

You can help people in so many ways, but have a list. And then thankfully with technology, you can put that right into an AI and say, okay, here are the things that I naturally excel at. Here are things that naturally fill me.

What career options are there? And this is great, even if you are in your purpose and you want to make a career pivot. There's so often people come to me and they are like, I have no transferable skills.

Yes, you do.

Especially since we're talking about soft skills. Even I've uncovered some that I didn't know. Hey, wait a minute.

This is transferable. And I can change careers. You'd be amazed.

Absolutely.

Completely amazed. There's so often I hear people's stories, careers, I could do that. Like I've never heard of this before, but that sounds like something I could do.

And that's one of the wonders of now having this type of technology at your fingertips.

Once you have that list and have that real conversation, it's important because sometimes we're just like, oh, we think about in the back of my mind, what will make me the most money.

You are more inclined to make more money when you're good at something, one, and then it naturally fills you because you're going to put in the extra time. Having conversations like this, I can do it from sun up to sun down and still have energy.

So you're enjoying yourself.

Right. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So I'm like, when you find those things, you will, money will come. So have that real conversation with yourself. Outline that list.

I wouldn't do anything too, too long because then you're probably going to confuse the AI, but maybe top five of some things that could naturally fill you, you naturally excel at.

And if you weren't being paid, you can show up in this way for the rest of your life. Once you have that list, you can plug it in and just say what career options. And then research.

You know, there's podcasts, listen to people that work in that space, right? So often I'm doing like anytime I'm interested in the industry, I hop on and listen to a podcast and like, oh, okay, learn the ins and outs, right?

Because it's important to not just look at what is glamorized, because then you might end up again as a lawyer.

And thinking it's TV, that's right.

Right, exactly. And then you're like, wait, how did I get here? And so once you have your list, do your due diligence, look up what it really will entail, hear other people's experience, and then you can naturally start building those tools.

Oftentimes, people think they need to enter into that space before they build in tools necessary to be successful. When I was working in clean energy, I was ready working on the skills that I needed to be in the role that I currently am in.

Volunteer. People are always looking for people to give back their time. Figure out what courses you can do.

I have a natural entrepreneur spirit. So create your own thing. If you can't do it right now, if no one's looking for it, create your own thing.

If you know, okay, this is where I'm trying to go to, try it out, and then talk to other people in that space of saying, am I on the right path?

So that one, it shows initiative, and then shows, do you have the true desire to continue to work on whatever, that skill or be in that space that you think you want to be in?

I think that would be a great way to step into your purpose, start on that journey to really making sure you find your purpose and then stay in your purpose.

Because this is something you can always work on, even if you are at the job that you're not excited about right now. It's something that you can do after hours and start working towards that. Is there an age limit?

Because you know you have retirement age. Is there an age where you think, it's a little too late for this person to start pivoting and taking detours and changing careers?

I honestly have a little bit of a controversial thought around this.

I think it is better to, if what you are doing no longer fulfills you, it is better to leave and open up a seat for the someone that that work does motivate and fulfill them and you find your next thing.

I think so often we have a lot of people at the top of organizations that are just there because they're scared to find something else. But what would our society look like if you didn't feel like it was too late to start over?

I think honestly, then you will only have the people, one, who are motivated, capable, and excited about that work in those spaces. And so often those are the people leading the organization.

Then you talk to them and they're like, yeah, no, I'm here because it's too late to leave. That's a little nerve-racking.

But so I would say definitely, if you are no longer motivated and you no longer feel that you're in your purpose, and sometimes life can happen to you where your purpose completely shifts. I know for me, when I became a mom, I had a shift in purpose.

And I am now in the process of realizing, okay, how does that align to where I'm going next? But if I waited and just said, well, it's scary to move, yes, it is. And it gets scarier the older sometimes you are.

But you also take that wisdom into a new space that can excite you. And then I honestly feel like that's how you continue to live and are motivated by what you do. Quick story, I was just talking to this man earlier today.

He had a marketing company for 25 years. Ranley, he switched into stem cell revigoration. And he told his story.

But it was like a kid in a candy store, how excited he was about this work.

He found his purpose.

He found his purpose. And he was doing excellent. Like he was actually one of the speakers there talking of, you know, it's not too late.

And so I just wish more people did not feel like it was too late to switch. It is never too late, long as you are healthy and you're probably more financially stable in a place where you can make that shift later in your career.

I'd say, yeah, go for it.

It's never too late. I mean, especially now with all the options available, like you said, you can literally go to AI and say, this is what I'm good at. What are my career options?

You can always switch careers. I'll be honest. I also have not been in the same industry since I left university.

Really, we are anymore.

The days of like, lifers? No, that time is over. Continue to seek your purpose and it will re-inspire you, you know?

Doing anything for 20 years, that seems daunting.

My parents' generation, yes. And then after 35 years in the same company, they get that park up and not anymore. There's so many options and it's now okay.

It's not looked down on, because at least back then it was looked down on to switch careers, but it always looks like you're starting over.

No. And honestly, if you are a little concerned in jumping to the same level, go to a smaller company, right? Because again, you're sharing the wisdom.

You have learned things, again, to these soft skills. You have the knowledge, no matter where you pivot to, that will be valuable to an organization.

So if you don't want to jump from, you know, one Fortune 500 company to the next, find a startup or find one of these smaller organizations where you can try things out and share your wisdom. They will be the better for and so will you, I think.

Yes, because I remember I once worked with a huge company for five years.

And then when I went to the small one, I found that my skill set was more enhanced because, you know, in a big company, there's somebody just dedicated to the photocopying machine or just delivering the mail.

Whereas when you work for a small company, they don't have the bandwidth to pay those kinds of people on a full time basis.

So you find that, yes, you know your job description and what you do, but there's so much more that you do as well in addition to that. And nobody thinks any task is beneath them just because of the title.

And I found that there's so much knowledge that I gained by being at a small company.

Yeah, I recommend Ebb and Flow. I think oftentimes we glorify the big companies and that's our end goal. Like if I just make it here, I would have made it.

But really, I think it's about making sure your life feels fulfilled at the end of the day. And where can you really gain that fulfillment? There's times where, you know, that Fortune 500 will give you that.

But when you want to slow down, but still learn, there's organizations that will allow you to do that. Yeah, keep your options open.

Right.

24:23

Network Future

Talk to us about that network of 10,000 professionals that you created or overseen.

So I manage a network of 10,000 professionals. We have 1,500 executives, so at the C-suite, that are a part of that, and anywhere also from early career, fresh out of undergrad. One, it keeps me busy.

But two, it really has showed me, you know, the sky is the limit and the power of connection. So a big part of what we do is learning and development, but also community building.

How are we really creating spaces for our alums to share their stories, so that when people are just graduating, they don't feel like the only or the road is too long for them to even get on it.

It has been so impactful to not only our mid to senior leaders, but also our early career of saying, like, I can't find a role right now.

But this executive also told me, you know, when they graduated and it was a recession and they couldn't find, and now they're there, right? And so it puts a lot of the things in perspective.

And it's such an inspiring space to be a part of because people are learning, growing, and building together. And it's unlike anything that I've ever seen outside of being in like a university, right?

Where everyone's pouring into each other and the students are all there to learn and cultivate one another. But now I'm able to help people find that in just their day to day.

They know there's a space they can plug into where they can find that fulfillment and gain new skill sets.

Do you find that the C-suite executives are willing to sometimes be mentors to the young ones?

Oh, yeah, definitely. Yes, especially because we have such a diverse community. They know what it's like to be the one of you.

And so they want to make sure that that changes. So they're like, let me share what worked so that not only you can get here, but you get here quicker. And you don't have to go through as many of the pitfalls.

And you know, I think it's that same pulling people up as you climb. They want to make sure that the next generation has an easier climb. And so they are very willing and often are asking us.

We have the desire for more sometime mentors than we have for mentees.

Because sometimes that is a good problem to have. I like that.

It is. Sometimes when you're young, young and scrappy, you feel like you can do anything and everything on your own. Like, I will take on the world.

And it's not until the world knocks you down a few times, then you're like, wait, can someone tell me how to do this? So yeah, it's a great problem to have.

I'm so glad that they're so willing, because, you know, obviously, they're busy. They have enough on their plates. That really means a great deal.

And then you say that you also work with developing children. How do you have time to do all this?

That's an excellent question. That's to my earlier point, we're purpose shift, right? And so I'm still very passionate about the work that I do.

But when I became a mom, I realized that so many of our children don't get the skills that they need to actually be successful until they graduate. Even though we have K through 12, K through college.

And I'm like, what would it look like if we were pouring into them early? And this goes back to my life. I'm able to get so much further than many of my peers, and I'm able to do this work because I learned those skills necessary.

I want to make sure that the next generation has access. So I'm actually in the process of building a learning and development platform for adolescents in the moment. It's important about those soft skills.

It's important to figure out, how do you even start to begin to understand yourself? We live in a time that can feel very isolating.

I have very, very young babies, but I also am an older sister, and my sisters are telling me, I already feel defeated, and they are in middle school right now. I watch the news. They tell me, AI is taking all the jobs.

They're taking your jobs. What will life be like? So kids are really smart.

They are paying attention to where the world is heading, and it can seem nerve wracking, but I think it's really important to be intentional about using this technology to pour into people versus using it to exclude.

My sweet spot right now, actually since I became a mom, is children. How are we preparing that next generation so that they don't have to deal with the same hurdles, and we can use this technology to help them figure out where they excel?

Imagine a space where technology allowed you to reach your fullest potential as early as possible. The sky really would be the limit, and I think that's where we should be going to, is investing in people versus anything else.

I think the general ethos should be the technology is here to either help you with the work you're doing and make some things be done more efficiently and faster versus the sphere tactic of it's going to replace your job, you're not going to have a

job. Because I don't think that there's a point where the human part of it, it's going to be human enough. We talk about soft skills, communication skills, that it's going to be human enough to really just everything robotic around the world.

I may not be as tech savvy, but I think that these kids need to be guided in a sense to say, hey, wait a minute, do not give in to the fear.

This is here to help you just do some of your work efficiently, or let you know what other options are there in the world, but it's not going to replace you and you're suddenly not going to be able to pay your bills.

Yeah, no, I, you know, we are people. I don't think there will be a time where people will prefer not to engage with people on a large scale. I'm like, that sounds, you know, very lonely.

And even when, you know, I think we all love efficiency, but there's something about human and human interaction that I don't see being replaced.

Or if you do write a report and you ask AI to help you, you know how if I know you long enough, I know how you sound. I know how an email or a summary from Siena is phrased versus if she just copied and pasted what Chachapiti said.

It just sounds a little different, if you know what I mean.

Oh, yeah. No, it sounds way different. I'm like, I have never heard you use any of those words in your life.

Yeah.

So no, I can give you the idea, but you paraphrase and you make the idea your own.

So any last words of wisdom for somebody who feels that they're not happy in their careers, but they don't know what the first steps are in basically brainstorming and trying to see, analyze their own skill set, their gifts, what brings them joy so

that they start on this path and finding what they truly love and is their purpose. Yeah.

No. Excellent question. What I would say is don't just look at your career, look at your life.

And I think that is where you'll find a lot more examples. I tapped into what motivated me and made me happy even before I was pursuing a career. So what did I enjoy doing in middle school?

What did I enjoy doing in college, in high school? Whatever the case may be. Or even outside of work, right?

Because a lot of times, thankfully, what I do professionally, I'm also doing outside. But figure out, you know, do you spend a little bit extra time volunteering in certain spaces? Do you naturally gravitate to a certain environment?

So look at the full picture, start to understand like, okay, I'm naturally excited. I naturally feel a spark when I do X. Take the time, journal about it, figure out that why, like, why does that excite you?

It might just be the people that you're doing it with, but there's times where you can say like, no, it doesn't matter who is there. As long as I'm doing this, I find excitement. And then that's when you start tugging at that string.

Okay, so what is the essence of that? It's interesting. My husband's in data.

Even if he was not paid a day in his life to research and understand how things work, he would still be doing that. So for him, he is naturally inquisitive. He always is connecting the dots.

Dots that I don't even see. I'm just like, oh, I'm living life. And he will tell me the end steps I missed of how things connected.

So once you start pulling at those strings, like, okay, I love doing puzzles. I love whatever that case may be, figuring out those through lines, and then start to say, what would a career in that look like?

And then once you have that list, research that career is really important. Say it's a major shift, right? You're in education, how do you get to data?

One, you can start doing projects on your own and see, like, okay, you know, what does entry-level data, entry projects look like? Is there a way I can plug into doing that in my organization?

You know, maybe you ask the tech team if they have any projects for you or whatever the case may be, or you can volunteer. Are there any local shops or, like, mom-and-pop businesses that want to become more data efficient?

See if you can plug in there. There's so many spaces where you can start to gain the skills. And then, you know, we didn't really get a chance to talk about if you have a fear of communication today.

Please, yeah, take the time to highlight that point.

So if you have a fear of communication, because we've emphasized a lot on how you sell yourself, how you use the transferable skills. So if you have a fear, please carry on.

Because oftentimes, I'll talk to individuals. I see their eyes getting bigger. You want me to do what?

You don't have to start there. I tend to be one of those people that step into the fire. And I'm like, let's see if I get burned, right?

And so I'm like, if you want, there's also approaches. So then you can take the more equally valuable individual route where take courses. You know, there's LinkedIn, there's YouTube, the University of YouTube, right?

Yes.

I am a big proponent of that.

There's a course for everything on YouTube.

Everything, you know?

So when in doubt, go to YouTube. There's that path that you can also take until you gain more confidence. But I think it is exceptionally important.

If you're not ready to make the pivot, if you're not getting entryway, try to step outside your comfort zone, even if it's just a half step, right? So I will share a very quick story.

When I knew I wanted to help people grow in their career, well, I built a whole proposal of what this could look like in the whole structure if an organization wanted to move in this direction. I'm not saying you have to do all of this.

And then I would go to different organizations and pitch. Then eventually I was recruited by this charter school and I helped their national alumni population and build out what it would look to support their alums.

That's again stepping into the fire where I was like, okay, I want to understand what this looks like. Then I want to be able to say, can I actually teach it to others?

And that's why I created the proposal and the outline of saying, like, how confident am I in this skill set? And then I'm a part of selling it. But it doesn't have to be that large.

So even if it's just one step, is there something you can do within your organization? You talked about how in large organizations, you're only doing that one thing. But people still need help.

Ask someone in an industry that you might be wanting to pivot to if you can take on a project or get a mentor in that space, right? And talk to them and see if they know someone else.

If you're entering in a new space, get comfortable being uncomfortable first.

Because I find that when you're into the interview, you'll be able to sell what you're trying to do a lot with a lot more confidence versus if you only did it in a silo, like you only ever talked to yourself about this, you only took online courses.

It's a lot different when you're now trying to convince someone else that you can make that jump versus saying, I did this, but then I tried to see how it would be applied with this individual. They gave me feedback.

You know, I kind of going into the wild, I would suggest if you're still having trouble making that pivot after you do these courses or you know, you research and start to understand things online.

Very, very true. Words of wisdom from Siena Dean, the career strategist, talent development expert who has been helping us find our purpose and align with our skills and gifts. Thank you very much for all the insights you shared with us today.

We really appreciate you.

It's truly have been my pleasure.

Mine as well. Before you go, would you like our listeners to find you online and where?

Yes, please connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find me at Siena Dean on LinkedIn.

I am always on there, always happy to have a conversation or give some advice or receive advice from you, because I'm sure there are other career experts out there in your community. So I would love to hear from you.

Yeah, absolutely. We'll learn from each other. Siena Dean on LinkedIn.

I'll put that on the show notes. Thank you very much for being on our show today.

It really has been my pleasure. This was fun.

I know it really was. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a rating and a Review on Apple and Spotify and stay tuned for more episodes to come.