How To Protect Your Eyes From Screens w/ Dr. Roger Wu
And also, in addition to spending hours in front of your screen, getting exposed to the blue light, and just sitting there not moving, there could be a circulation issue around your prostate.
They suspect that was another cause for the uptake, the increase of prostate issues. And then if you go talk about the breast cancer, there is more tamoxifen-resistant breast cancers right now.
More and more stuff like this coming out, a lot of that is actually caused by the blue light issues.
Welcome back to The Speaking and Communicating Podcast. I am your host, Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning in to.
Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Now let's get communicating.
Now let's get communicating with our guest today. Joining us from Los Angeles, Dr. Roger Wu is an optometrist who's been practicing for over 25 years.
He has a very special gift for us that he's developed for our eye help in this very screen heavy world that we live in. And before I go any further, please help me welcome him to the show. Hi, Dr.
Wu.
Hi, Roberta. Yeah, thanks for having me here today.
My pleasure. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.
You say that screen heavy world that we live in is the new smoking for our eyes. Why do you say that?
Well, right now, okay, compared to 15, 20 years ago, we're seeing a lot more issues caused by the screen time, you know, excessive screen time. Primarily the young adults right now, we're seeing a lot more dry eyes.
You know, 10, 20, 15 years ago, we rarely, rarely see people, you know, 40 and younger getting dry eyes. But right now, we're seeing kids as young as nine-year-old getting dry eyes.
And that's all because of the amount of time that we spend on our devices. So that's one issue there. And then the second one is which is more critical is actually, we're seeing changes in the back of the eye, in the retina area.
There's this, you know, the center part of the retina. There's a place called macula. So you probably heard that macular degenerations.
So it's the area right now we're seeing some changes and potentially that's caused by the blue light generated from our screen, especially those high power, high energy blue light that we're experiencing, all the devices that generate now that can
potentially penetrate all the way to the back of the eye and causing damages there. So those are the things that, at least in the eye care industry, we knew about it and then we tried to educate patients about it, but most people in the public,
they're still not well educated as far as knowing the potential damage done by our devices. So that's why I think that in a way, that's the new pandemic that we got to deal with for the next probably a couple of decades, unless we can come up with a
solution for it. My product right now, it's one of the first products in the world that can actually deal with those issues. So that's why I think that the product itself, it will save billions of people's eyes down the road.
I'm wondering, because obviously it depends on when you first started being screen heavy and how many hours you spend on a daily basis on the screens. If somebody like me, I'm almost 50.
I grew up where TV was only like, what, six hours, and then it's off. There were no cell phones, there were no iPads. If you wanted to call me, you'll call the landline.
When you see your patients, is there a difference between someone who's older, who didn't grow up like this generation, where literally a baby at a restaurant is given an iPad so that they keep them busy?
Yeah. I mean, obviously, dry is the issue right now. And we're also seeing patients, we're talking about like teenagers, 17.
That's in my case that I've seen patients, 17 year old start developing cataract. That's how crazy it is. Cataracts, we have patients 14 year old start getting pigmentation, pigmented changes in the macular areas.
Things like this, 15, 20 years ago, you would never in a million year imagine this would happen to our younger populations right there. But we're seeing more and more of that. We have 35 year old getting cataract.
That's kind of getting more and more common these days. Dry, obviously, it's the biggest issue right now. One of the hottest topics in the IK industry at this time, you know, especially we're talking about the the screen-induced dry eye.
It's so common right now. And a lot of people would think, Oh, what's the big deal? My eye is getting dry.
Well, what happened was besides your vision fluctuates, you can potentially causing damage to the front of the eye, to the cornea, causing scarring. And those scars are primarily, they are permanent that can affect your vision.
If you are unlucky, the location of the scars right at the center. So it can affect your vision, causing halos, glare at night. And those problems are not going to go away.
So that's why there are so many multiple issues, just in the eye care industry itself.
And then if you move on to a different industry, for example, the dermatology world, they are saying that there are more cases of younger adults getting melanoma from neck up to the front head, basically your front facial area, this area.
And those patients are not one that spend hours and hours outdoor playing sports. Those are the office workers sitting in front of a computer, you know, eight hours a day.
So, because the blue potentially, that blue light can cause those issues right now.
And if we go back to other industry, even the oncology, there's a study talking about it right now in the oncology field, especially there is a big article in Spain talking about younger male getting prostate issues, believe it or not, prostate
cancers. So they believe that the blue light can destroy, you know, your melatonin within your system. Melatonin is actually very, very potent antioxidant, it actually can pre-minimize the chance of getting cancer tumors.
So they're seeing young male adult getting prostate issues. And also in addition to spending hours in front of your screen, getting exposed to the blue light, and just sitting there not moving, there could be a circulation issue around your prostate.
They suspect that was another cause for the uptake, the increase of prostate issues. And then if you go talk about the breast cancer, there is more tamoxifen resistant breast cancers right now for those post-breast cancer treatments.
And you can look into those articles. More and more stuff like this coming out. And a lot of that is actually, we all suspect it's actually caused by the blue light issues.
Blue Light Explained
So why is blue light so concerning, so scary? Everyone knew about the UV light, right? 30 years ago, some people think that's marketing.
The ultraviolet light, and we...
Yeah, ultraviolet light.
So coming from the sun, people think like...
But it used to be more SPF in the sunglasses, and you're going to be fine.
Yeah, but if you look at the wavelength of the UV light, it's actually between 200 to 400. The blue light from our screen actually starts at 400. Between 400 and 500, that's blue light.
But the one coming from our monitor, our cell phone, iPad, what have you, is actually between 400 and 450. In other words, right next to the UV light. So that's why we know about the UV damage right now.
And the wavelength is very, very close to the UV light. They think that it's also wavelength, the high-energy blue light, meaning the one between 400 and 450 nanometers, those are the one that's causing the issues right now.
So it's very, very concerning. And we also have sleep apnea issue.
People are having difficulty falling asleep right now because they are exposed to the blue light, and then the blue light will destroy your melatonin, your natural secreting melatonin within your system.
That's why more and more younger people are having difficulty falling asleep, couldn't get a good night's sleep, they get woken up easily. So all those issues are all caused by the amount of time we spend on our devices.
Can I start with the sleeping one? Then is it recommended that you just switch off everything, phone, computer, everything, before you go to bed?
Ideally, in the perfect world, yeah, number one, when you charge your devices, put it as far away as possible from where you sleep, and then you try to avoid using those devices one to two hours before your bedtime. That's in the perfect world.
But we don't live in the perfect world, and most patients just don't follow that. Yeah.
And then the second one is this blue light.
I'm wondering, because some of us ladies, we go for these manicures, and then once they've painted your nails, they put your fingers under this, they call it the UV light, I think, so that it dries up quickly. Is that a similar light?
I'm not sure the exact wavelength of that nail-drying UV light, but I'm pretty sure it's between 200 to 400 nanometers. So blue light is just slightly longer than that, between 4 and 450 coming from your devices.
I'm pretty sure you don't go do your nail all the time. So exposure from it, I think it's pretty minimal.
Right. So it's the devices at home that are high risk. So those are the eye and the physical impact of the screen.
Physical Strain
Is there anything else, you've talked about the eye, the potential cancers, are there any other negative side effects physically that come from us always being on our screens?
Psychologically, there are studies, but it was a much older studies. They were talking about people who spend a lot of time for near work, everything up close, your iPhone, your iPad, whatever.
If you spend a lot of time looking at things up close, mentally, it can affect your thinking as well. That's why people get a little depressed, looking at things up close. You're supposed to be looking things far away out the windows more often.
That's one thing. And also you have to realize that our eyes, if you look at it from the mechanics' perspective, our eyes are not exactly designed to look at things up close all the time. You're putting tremendous stress on your eyeballs.
They're a tiny little muscle. They have to keep pulling. So that can cause headaches, neck, shoulder issue, that's another thing.
And since I just mentioned the neck issues right now, it's funny that, because I was doing a presentation at NASA, talk about when your eyes become tired, become fatigued, human nature is to lean forward. We don't lean back when your eyes get tired.
So when you lean forward, our head weighs about 10, 12 pounds. I'm not sure you have picked up a 12-pound bowling ball.
Yes, yes.
If you pick up a 12-pound bowling ball and just hold it there for five minutes, your arms will be so sore, your muscles will probably start to burn. So imagine that you do a 10, 12-pound bowling ball, basically that's the weight of your head, right?
You lean forward, just by leaning forward 15 degree, which most people do, 15 degree, you're putting 30 pounds of forces on your neck and shoulder. So 15 is really not a lot. If you lean forward 30 degree, the number became like 45 to 50 pounds.
That's why people are getting neck shoulder pains right now. And they all start from our eyes, eye fatigue. It's just, unfortunately, that's the human nature.
And then if you go out next time, if you are in the public, look how people use those mobile devices. A lot of people lean forward, I don't know, 40 degree, 45 degree.
Imagine the amount of stress you're putting on your shoulder and neck and the back muscles. Physically, it can cause that, but it can also go back to just simply because the amount of time we spend on our devices is causing this eye strain.
Unfortunately, that's a technology that's ruining, affecting the health of modern day society.
Right. Speaking of leaning back, pushing the device further, my mom does that. And I always thought it's because, you know, she's almost 70.
That means her eyes are not as good as they used to be. Is she becoming farsighted? She picks up and she wants to read it.
She will push it further back and extend her arm.
Yeah. It's actually a good thing for your eyes.
Oh, so she sees the right thing.
Yeah. The further away the object, the more relaxed your eyes will be. Yeah.
So that's a good thing. I mean, I'm assuming that she could still read the things that she should be reading.
She now pushes it further back. And we, as her kids, think, Oh, our mom's eyes are not as good as they used to be.
Yeah. Yeah. The closer you are, the more straining, the more pulling power the muscle needs to exert to get things in focus.
So further away, the better. That's why desktop is better than laptop computers. Laptop is better than your iPhone.
So the bigger the device, which means TV is literally...
Further away.
Yeah. TV is actually the better thing. Yeah.
We were lied to saying that when we were little, we shouldn't be watching too much TV. But as far as your eye health, your ocular health, your eye straining goes, it's actually the best option right now.
Compared to everything that's available for sure. Yes. Speaking of desktops, you have people who are on their computers the entire shift, whether it's trading, whether it's the YouTube all day.
So some people, it's just their job, whether they work from home or remote. So they're thinking, what else can I do? I still want to have good eyesight, but this is my job and I do this every day, Monday to Friday.
You mentioned that there's actually a very funny thing that happened.
Right? I was doing a presentation and there's a lady, I don't want to name the company, it's a huge company. She's the head of the economic department.
She came up to me and then she looked at all the information I presented. She got really scared because she was on six monitors simultaneously at work. She sits in front of a computer at six, seven hours a day.
She's the head of the ergonomic department. And ideally, okay, right now, I'm talking to you, right? So ideally, I'm looking at the screen.
The center of this screen should be 10 to 15 degrees below your eye levels. That's the ideal height of the monitor. She's using six monitors.
She's looking out like this. Six monitors, big monitors. She explained that to me.
That's why she's getting tremendous neck problems, dry eye, everything like this. And she was afraid to mention that to anybody because she's the head of the ergonomic department. So wouldn't that be funny?
So she came up to me like that.
Yeah.
So it's just one of the things that the viewing distance of the object is very important, but also the location, the position of the monitors, another thing that people sometimes didn't even mention that.
So you have to pay attention to the position of the things that you're looking at, the height and also the ambient lighting, the lighting around you. That's very important too.
That's why you don't want to use your device in the dark because in the dark, our pupils dilate, pupils get bigger. There's more blue light gets penetrated all the way to the retina.
So you need to make sure that the room lighting is bright enough, but you don't want to be too bright, causing a lot of glare on your screen as well. That's why the angle of the screen also is very important.
You need to minimize the glare bouncing back directly back to your eyes. So there's so many little details that you have to really look into it to make sure that you continue to have your good eyesight for the long run, yeah.
That's interesting that you say that, Dr. Wu, because you know how we love the cinema feel of the screen, and then everything goes dark, you get your popcord. So we try to recreate that at home as well.
We darken everything whether we're watching TV, we binge watching on our computer screens.
Yeah. So stop doing that. So I can tell you.
TV is actually okay. Yeah, TV is because it's much further out. So I don't think it will affect your eyes that much.
But screen, obviously, you need to have the light turn on.
And obviously, the glare, if you can see reflection of your windows, next time before you turn on your monitor, looking at the black monitor, and then see if you can see a reflection of the windows or the room light, the ceiling light.
If you can see a reflection from the monitor itself, when the monitor was off, basically, there was a glare, there was a reflection bouncing back into your eyes. So you need to adjust the angle of the monitor to minimize those glare.
Because glare, pretty much by definition, it's a very, very low power flashlight shining directly into your eyes. So you need to minimize that.
Eye Care Products
Are there glasses we can wear while working on our screens so that we minimize the damage to our eyes?
Not just reading glasses. Some people really are reading glasses, which is understandable. But for us who think, oh my goodness, I'm listening to Doctor Wu and I'm worried.
Is there a certain type of glasses we can wear to protect our eyes?
Yeah. That's what I'm wearing right now. I don't really need to wear glasses when using a computer, but I'm wearing this to filter out the blue light.
Yeah. So right here, at least in the US, there are so many different brands. They all claim there are blue light filtering lenses.
But we have an instrument right here that can actually measure the amount of blue light being filtered out. We have seen a lot of lenses. A patient brought it in, we test out those lenses.
A lot of times, they only filter 2-3% of the blue light, and they claim they are the blue light filtering lenses. That's just kind of unfortunate because, well, number one, FDA doesn't regulate that.
And number two, when they go out and advertise, we have a blue light filtering technology, but they only filter out 2-3%. You give the consumer a false sense of security.
Say, I got this pair of blue light lenses, I can still use my computer for 10 hours, I'll be okay. But reality is, hardly does anything to filter out the blue light, to remove the blue light.
So if you can find a doctor who's equipped to measure the amount of blue light that's being filtered out, that would be fantastic. Otherwise, just kind of dig in and do your own research, see which one works the best.
So right here, the one I'm wearing, I don't get paid by this company. It's actually made by Kodak. These lenses, they filter up to 80% of the blue light.
Wow.
That's pretty much the highest on the market right now.
They're relatively pricey, but I think it's worth it.
Definitely.
Yeah, my kids wear them as well. So these are the only one I recommend. Yeah.
Definitely.
Especially if you're working on screens, that is a lot. So please walk us through the 90-day pilot study that you did.
That's the beverage, the eye drink that I created. We used the formulation that's based on the vitamin called ARAS-2, A-R-E-D-S-2. That's pretty much like the gold standard in the eye care industry.
If you want to take a vitamin to protect your retina, protect your macula, ARAS-2 is the vitamin to get. So our beverage is just formulated based on the ARAS-2 formulations.
And on top of that, we added the Omega-3, essential fatty oil to minimize dry eyes. So there's EPA, DHA, and then we used the algae-based triglyceride from Omega-3, so it's vegan-friendly.
I recruited a total of probably like 44 patients, and then they started with conducting these pilot studies. Most of them basically drink the beverages religiously. That's the key word.
They have to be very compliant by drinking the beverage, at least one bottle a day. And we measured before they started to drink and participate in this program, we measured their baseline score.
It's called MPOS score, N-P-O-D-S, MPOS score, and this actually stands for Macular Pigment Optical Density. You actually measure the amount of pigmentation in your macula. So why is that pigmentation so important?
The macular pigmentation essentially works just like the sunscreen, you know, sunblock on your skin. So that pigmentation can actually absorb the harm for UVM and blue light.
We have a baseline score and everyone has to have a relatively low score to begin with. And then they go home and start drinking the beverages. By drinking this every day for 90 days, we brought them back and measure their MPOS score again.
Out of those 44, there's only two, two patients that didn't see improvement. Everyone else saw improvement. And those two that didn't see improvement, they claim they've been drinking it, but they're younger kids, so I'm assuming they have.
So it's just one of those things that we have the data to back up the efficacy of our beverages. And that's one thing to measure the pigmentation of your macula.
Second one is actually, we're in the early stage right now, there's a questionnaire for dry eye. Dry eye questionnaires go OSDI questionnaires. That's kind of like the, again, like a gold standard in the dry eye studies.
Any pharmaceutical companies, before they launch a dry eye product, usually OSDI questionnaire is the one that they use to measure the efficacy of their products.
So we have patients come in, we have them do the questionnaire, and then 90 days later, they came back and then do an OSDI questionnaire again. And the majority of them, the score went up. The higher the score, the worse your eyes are.
So the majority of them actually improved. There are OSDI questionnaire. The quickest one, my patient, she's actually a banker down the street, pretty close from here, not even one mile from here.
She'd been seeing me for, I don't know, 10, 15 years. Always came in complaining about dry eyes. And she was one of our participants, not even a week.
She felt that her eyes, they're definitely a lot less burning. She's much, much more comfortable toward the end of the day. And she was kind of a unique case because she only started drinking the beverage, not even a week.
And she drank, on the average, two bottles, basically in the afternoon. She didn't drink any of our beverage in the morning. But after lunch, she started drinking it.
So she drank about two bottles in the afternoon. So by five o'clock, six o'clock, her eyes definitely feel a lot better. She was actually one of the first, came in and told me, said, hey, look.
I know it's kind of crazy, but she's not sure whether it's actually psychologically, that she feel better, it's placebo effect. But she said that definitely that she feel a huge difference after she started drinking the eye drink.
So I think this is very interesting, very unique product. And all the ingredients that we put into the beverages, it's all scientifically based. I didn't start throwing ingredients in there, see which one stick on the wall, kind of in a way.
We're not selling a snake oil, so to speak. So if you take the beverage and show any eye doctors, they will say, oh, interesting. They didn't know that it's even possible to put the ingredient into the beverages.
So we did. It took us two years to come up with the final formulation, but definitely worth it.
Yes, the eye drink, and we're going to put details of it on the show notes. If anybody, especially, you know, some children start wearing glasses at like first grade because something is wrong with their eyes.
So if you've been wearing glasses for that long, and now you're a grown up, will the eye drink still make a difference once you start taking it?
No. Be honest. Yeah.
The eye drink is to protect your macula and also to minimize dry eyes. It's not going to alter your prescription at all.
If you have this strabismus, basically the eye-turning things, like a lot of kids are starting wearing glasses because they have a basic coccyle, a cross-eye, so they have to wear glasses. The eye drink will not help those. Yeah.
The eye drink is pretty much we target for anybody who spent at least two hours a day in front of their devices every day to minimize dry and protect their retina. So who doesn't spend two hours each day with their devices?
They spend a lot more.
Yeah. So if you want to continue to have a very, very healthy macular pigmentation score, and also basically you don't want to have it trying to minimize your dry issues, then the eye drink is the best solution right now.
Yeah. So that's what the purpose of it is. You're not here.
I'm glad that you're clarifying that you're not making claims that you can cure any vision. Yes.
Screen Habits
So what are some last words, screen survival tips for those of us? Because it looks like literally the entire world is on screens right now.
I know. I know. The only thing I pretty much tell all my patients is trying to spend as little as possible, especially younger kids.
And I told all my other patients that I try not to give them a cell phone unless they're in high school. I have seen kids, come on, second grade have their own cell phone. I mean, that was just crazy.
Is it for safe?
Because some parents will say, oh, just in case there's an emergency at work, the kids at school, so in case of emergency or safety.
I'm not sure. I've heard that before. But a lot of parents would actually come up, you know, excuses to justify their actions.
But you got to realize the cell phone, the smartphone didn't get invented until like 20 years ago. So how do we survive?
You grew up without them.
Right? Yeah. And then if you look at, if something did happen to your kids at school, usually the school, the nurses would call.
Yeah. You don't have to wait until the kids to call you. Second grader having their own iPhone, I thought was crazy.
A lot of time, the parents themselves, if you're not setting a good example, basically for your kids, if you're using your device all the time, kids will do exactly the same thing.
Right.
Yeah. So that's another way. Try to use your device as little as possible.
Make sure you turn on the light and try not to use it in the car and try not to use it while you're walking. You don't want to have this vertical motion when you're using your devices.
And obviously keep it distant, but those handheld devices is possible to keep a proper distance. You just don't hold your devices 40 centimeters away from your face. People just don't do that.
Yeah. So those are the little things. And obviously, take your vitamins, kale, eating your spinach, replenish your lutein and zeaxanthin, all the major pigmentation in your macula or drink DI drink.
And speaking of melatonin, should you supplement on that too?
Because I know this is a digression from the point we're talking about. But as you mentioned it earlier, some people say don't take those melatonin supplements. Your body just produces it naturally if you struggle with sleep.
Yeah.
Our body will secrete melatonin naturally. But the problem is, well, our pituitary gland in our brain is supposed to secrete the melatonin.
But the problem is people are spending so much time on our devices, on our cell phone computer, and the blue light will destroy your melatonin. So people have a lower level of melatonin these days.
That's why they have to take some supplements for that. Unfortunately, that's just the case. Personally, sometimes I take magnesium.
Once in a while, if I do go out traveling, jet lag, I'll take a melatonin.
But other than that, if you don't want to become basically in the habit of taking it every day, become dependent on it and change your device, your screen habit, that's probably more important than anything else.
So in conclusion, it's better for me to binge watch my show on TV rather than on the computer. Yes. Much better for my eyes if I do that.
Yes.
Any last words of wisdom, anything that at least is their habit, we can adjust because we're still going to be on our screens.
Let's be honest.
That's right. Yeah. Number one, invest in a good pair of BlueLight filtering lenses.
If you really have to spend that much time on your devices, then it's worth it, worth the money. Personally, I don't spend a lot of time on my own frame. The cheaper frames or the qualities are pretty good.
I invest heavily into the lenses itself. I spend a lot of money on these Kodak lenses. So invest a good pair of lenses to filter out the BlueLight.
And still, even with these lenses, you still don't want to spend too much time with the device and keep it proper distance. Of course, it is very important to turn on the light around you. The ambient lighting is critical.
And start eating your spinach and drink the iDrink.
Drink the iDrink, which was going to be my next question. Where online can we find the iDrink, Dr. Wu?
Right now, it's only available in the US.
We have a website. It's called www.theidrink.com. You can purchase there.
We have people try to order it from India. I'm not sure how that went. It's a record.
We just launched the product. But you can still buy it directly from our website, www.theidrink.com. If you have a friend's family here in the US, you can be more than happy to place the order and have the beverages shipped to them.
And then they can somehow ship it to wherever you are. That's probably another thing to do. We did have people from Canada.
They ship it somewhere in Michigan. And then somehow they managed to bring over to Canada. That's another thing.
Because right now, we only focus in the US market.
Okay. So the idrink.com. Easy to remember.
Yeah. We'll put the details on the show notes. Is there any other way in which our listeners and viewers can find you if they would like to stay in touch?
Probably the best way is go through LinkedIn.
Okay. I do have a profile there. I do have a marketing team.
Manage my social media. I don't spend a lot of time on my social media. So don't be surprised if they're the one actually responding to some of the things, some of the questions.
But if there are certain more critical things, questions they didn't know how to answer, usually they would just basically let me know. So I'll personally log on and try to respond to those inquiries. But LinkedIn is probably the best way to find me.
Excellent stuff.
Dr. Roger Wu, the optometrist of over 25 years, founder of the iDrink who's helping us with our eyesight and eye health in this screen heavy world. Thank you very much for being here, Dr.
Wu, and for sharing your expertise with us. We will continue to follow up on this.
Thank you.
My pleasure. Don't forget to subscribe, liberating, and to review on Apple and Spotify, and stay tuned for more episodes to come.
