Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Resentment flows are powerful. They're the breakdown of families. People come to me because their kids don't talk to them anymore because they've been fired.

And they don't think they're ever going to get that child back in their lives because the resentment flow is that palpable.

I think we want to go for cooperation, consideration, and that consideration and cooperation is a very different energy than because I have to, and if I don't, God knows what's going to happen to me.

Welcome back to The Speaking and Communicating Podcast. I am your host, Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning in to.

Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify, and leave a soul reading and a review. Now let's get communicating.

Now let's get communicating with our guest today, Katherine Sellery, joining us from Colorado. She is an expert at rewriting the parenting and leadership roles.

She helps us with our emotional intelligence and transformational communication, and is the founder of Conscious Parenting Revolution. She's a three-time TEDx speaker and is here to teach us how to communicate, lead, and live.

And before I go any further, please help me welcome her to the show. Hi, Katherine.

Hi, Roberta. Thank you. So nice to be here.

I'm so glad to be here.

Welcome. Please introduce yourself to our audience.

1:47

Effective Communication

Well, you've done a pretty good job.

But, yes, I mean, I'm passionate about communicating effectively. I mean, we can all communicate ineffectively. We have our moments.

And just the distinctions between assertive, aggressive, effective, ineffective. What does it even mean to be effective? You know, what does that look like?

I don't think a lot of people have grown up in families where they see effective communication and conflict resolution being modeled for them.

So, a lot of us struggle to figure out ways to speak up, be assertive about meeting our needs in all kinds of different environments, as we were just talking about, you know, before we got on the air, just where there may not be a reception for what

you have to offer into the conversation. And at some level, you're being marginalized, and your feelings and needs are not being treated as if they mattered.

And that thing about communication, here's the funny part. Sometimes we think we are communicating effectively, but the question is, is the person we're communicating with having that experience that we think they're having?

Because you can think, oh, I'm Katherine, I'm such a great communicator, but is Roberta experiencing me that way?

That's part of communication. I mean, communication is not about what I think about my communication. It's what is the receiver experienced as my communication because that's the message.

The message may not even be received the way that I had hoped for, but however it was received is what we're dealing with. So we have to check in. Could you tell me what you heard me say?

I mean, that's obviously one of the best ways for us to communicate, is to have a feedback loop in there.

So I can communicate something, hope that you heard it the way I wanted you to, and the only way I'm going to know is if I say, hey, could you let me know what you heard me say? And that's where we catch those breakdowns.

That's where we catch like, oh, hey, really? Did you hear me say that? Gosh, let me clean that up.

But how often do we do that though?

Do we even think that we need to take the time to check if Katherine received the message the way I intended?

I certainly coach people to do that in their conversations. I use the analogy of a letter. So your communication is essentially like a written letter.

And imagine putting it in the envelope and sending it to the other person. But you're never sure if they ever got it, unless they open it up and they read the letter and they call you on the phone and they say, hey, I got your letter.

I hear you're selling your house. That's so exciting. And you have some kind of feedback loop built in.

So if we keep that in mind, the verbal communication is not really that different than written communication. The only way we know that they've received the letter is if there's some kind of response.

Now, a lot of people are responding to communication without you having said to them, hey, could you let me know what you heard me say?

And usually we can read based on the response if it was received the way we wanted it to be, or if it was received in an entirely different way based on the response, we do get feedback. And often it's what prompts us for our next response to them.

5:07

Parenting Communication

Right.

So you spoke about communication at home. Let's start from that.

As parents, how do we model the type of communication that we hope our kids will grow up with and be emotionally intelligent and communicate effectively with other people outside the home?

Yeah, I think we have to identify what I call ageism. A lot of parents, almost, it's blindsided.

They don't realize they have this underlying unconscious belief that children are just to be seen and not heard, that they're just supposed to do as they're told, that they are not really supposed to have a voice, and that they're not really supposed

to have feelings or needs either. Because when those begin to happen, rather than being like, of course, they've got feelings and needs, and of course, they've got something they want to share about this conversation. Of course, they're human beings.

Instead of that kind of mindset, they're shocked. Don't talk back to me. Don't have a perspective or opinion on this.

You can see from the response that if they didn't have that one particular belief, they wouldn't be responding this way. So parents have these beliefs within their consciousness. Their words are filtered through these beliefs.

So we have to kind of look at what we believe about children. Do we believe that they're worthy of having feelings and needs and expressing them? If we believe that, then when they do it, we're like, fair enough.

I really appreciate that you're able to share your perspective with me. I hadn't thought about it that way.

Well, why don't we sit down and figure out like, when are the best times for you to do your homework after school, or you're going to come back from your friend Laurie's, or whatever it may be, where everything is done on the basis of children are

reasonable and they want to please you. Some children are more willing to risk your displeasure in order to be true to themselves.

Kids that are true to themselves rather than just paying lip service out of their fear of you, is a very different thing than someone who's acting out of fear of repercussions. It's also incredibly different than doing it out of consideration.

So I really like to cultivate this idea that children have feelings to, that parents who can include not just their own feelings and needs, but those of their kids as well, are going to have better relationships.

And the more that we allow our children to speak about what's going on for them, the more information we have about what they're going through, and the more likely they're going to turn to us when they need support, rather than a peer group, for

Which would be much better, because at least that's how I was raised, that my parents have my best interest at heart.

So it's always better to go to them first, if I'm young and I need advice, versus if I ask my peers, they're as clueless as I am if we're all 13.

Yeah, it's much better to have your parents have your back. And I think you're fortunate to feel that way.

But do you think it's a cultural thing as well that you just described, which is in some cultures, the parents say, hey, just listen to what I have to say, you don't have a voice or is it universal?

So I lived in Hong Kong for 35 years. I coached pretty much every nationality you can think of through the expat school systems. And I would say without a doubt, the power over method of do as you're told is universally popular.

Not because it works, not because it cultivates good relationships, but because it's what happened to almost everybody, is that we grew up in a culture where it was like obedience and compliance. A good girl is somebody who does as she's told.

A good boy is somebody who does as he's told. So anybody who has another experience of something else going on inside of them, in most of our family systems, we weren't allowed to speak. We weren't allowed to bring that up.

We didn't know how to have conversations with the powers that be. It was really about, you know, call it the patriarchy, call it the matriarchy, just call it about power over.

It was about, for whatever reason, you just do whatever this person who's in charge of you says to do.

9:33

Power Versus Guidance

I think we want to go for cooperation, and I think we want to go for consideration. And that consideration and cooperation born out of a deep, heartfelt desire to make a contribution is a very different energy than because I have to.

And if I don't, God knows what's going to happen to me. Some privilege gets taken away or worse.

Yeah, that's the fear that until I'm 18, I need to abide by the rules, otherwise I'm going to be kicked out of the house, and I don't have the power to pay rent for myself until then.

Yeah.

So it's compliance, yeah.

Yeah, obedience and compliance is the cornerstone of an authoritarian power over method of parenting. So I do what I'm told I have to do because I'm afraid if I don't, I don't know what's going to happen to me.

So the cornerstone is based on fear and dependency, where a guidance approach is based on cooperation, and it's based on wanting to, out of consideration of other people's needs, my behavior and my choice to help out in the kitchen or to clean up the

table or to clean up the house or to get ready in the morning on time. I do that because I want to do it for me, and I have agency over my actions and behaviors, and I'm also being considerate of my mom and dad, and I want to pitch in because it

matters to me too. We get in the way of what I think is natural and normal, and we get in the way when we start using power over, because then we activate retaliation rebellion and resistance, which is responsible for 75% of behavioral disruptions.

So if we want to have more and more problems to deal with secondary problems, then just keep using power and control, and keep activating the three Rs that you wanted to see changed, any of those things I was talking about before, picking your toys

up, putting your clothes away, putting the dirty clothes in the laundry, whatever it may be, everyday, day-to-day type of experiences that you're getting so exasperated by not having done. So then you start using power and control.

If you don't do that, no TV, no phone, no games, no what, no this, no play dates. You start using all of those mechanisms. What we didn't ever kind of understand was, well, what's getting in the way of them doing it in the first place?

Like if I were to make a different assumption of people actually are pretty okay pitching in, then what's getting in the way of them not?

And then when I start adding those kind of ways to get to make them do it, I may get them to do it because they're afraid of me or what I have the power to do over them. But now I'm getting it out of the fear thing.

And then they may retaliate, they may rebel, they may resist. So resentment flows are very powerful. And we know we can get obedience and compliance and behaviors on the basis of perfunctorily if they don't do it, something happens.

But not in the spirit of wanting to do it. Not because they chose it at a certain level. They're choosing it, but they're choosing it for the wrong reasons.

They're choosing it to get out of experiencing some painful thing that I'm going to do to one. Not because it gives them great joy and satisfaction to make a contribution.

A lot of this boils down to, do you feel like kids would pitch in if you didn't use power?

Do you think that if you didn't use power and you tried the methods that Katherine has coached you on, if they don't cooperate, then what next? Then what's the alternative?

Because think about it, not every parent who tries something more calm and communicates in an effective manner, it doesn't always mean the response is going to be the kid gets on board.

It depends on how much they built up their resentment flow. It depends on how much that child has begun to resent you for your power over them over however many years.

If you're talking to me about an 18-year-old kid who has grown to hate you so much because all you ever did was keep forcing your demands on them and never took the time to even wonder what was going on inside of them that prevented them from wanting

to do it in the first place. So if you're talking about a 6-year-old, a 4-year-old, a 3-year-old, a 12-year-old, every age is different. But resentment flows that have been built up over many, many years? No, of course not.

You have to heal the resentment flow. They have to be seen, heard, and understood from their perspectives for the 10 years before that that you never bothered to ask. Resentment flows are powerful.

They're the breakdown of families. People come to me because their kids don't talk to them anymore because they've been fired. They don't think they're ever going to get that child back in their lives because the resentment flow is that palpable.

It's just extraordinary how painful, like nobody starts out in life having children because they think that it's going to be anything but warm and loving and fun and we've got each other's back and we're gonna go play games together and have

holidays. It's really the juice, right? I mean, for those of us who have kids, it's why we do it, right?

I mean, I don't have kids, but, you know, I've watched my siblings, cousins with their spouses and their children, especially. Do you remember the TV show Supernanny? I don't know if they're the one from the UK.

Yes.

Absolutely.

I have found that if those methods are implemented earlier on, and even though it may look very tough, like a four or six-year-old, it looks like this is not working. They still do the same thing even though I'm applying Supernanny strategies.

But over time, through repetition and huge patience from the parts of the parents, it then starts to click. They then start to have this routine.

They then start to say, remember what we said, if you feel like you need to take a breath, whatever it is. But it's not something that the change doesn't happen overnight.

I couldn't be more different than Supernanny, right? Supernanny is all about getting a behavioral. I'm not a behavioralist.

A behavioralist doesn't care how you got the behavior, and it doesn't really matter to them the price they had to pay. So if you hate me, but I get the behavior I wanted, I got the behavior. Do they ask the question why I got the behavior?

Of course not. They don't care why, they just care that they got the behavior.

Is the outcome.

That's a behavioralist. A behavioralist is looking for a behavior. I wanted you to pick up the table, you're picking up the table.

Great. That's what I wanted. I wanted you to pick up your clothes, you're picking up your clothes.

Check the box. I got it. I know this because I've been doing this for 25 years.

They also got a resentment flow. So they got the quote unquote thing they wanted done, but they got it with a really heavy price. They got it with a resentment flow where the kid feels so resentful.

But still, they do it because of all the power you have over them. I mean, we can't dispute the fact that parents have the power to not let me go on my play date, to take my cell phone away, to not let me use the car.

I mean, parents control everything. We already have all of this power. It's how we use it, is what I'm talking about.

Do we use it to understand each other, to understand what resistance is? I asked somebody to pick up their toys. They don't pick up their toys.

I can go to one, two, three, and they all know at the end of three, that I'm going to spank their bottom and put them in their room and close the door. So all of a sudden, they're terrified.

And maybe they'll start doing it because I have instilled the fear of God in them. I was very effective at that. So that's a whole parenting modality.

That's the predominant culture, right? It's through the use of power, control, fear. I mean, all of those mechanisms.

But if you become a little bit more interested in like, why people change their behavior. I mean, I've spent my whole life wondering why people change their behavior. Why do people change their behavior?

Well, for sure. I mean, we know this torture, power, control, fear. I mean, those are all handy little tools.

You can use that box. Then the question is, is that who you are? I mean, does that make you feel good about you?

At some point, somebody must wonder, are kids just bad spirited? Or could there potentially be reasons why they're not doing these things?

And aren't those methods also, don't they all have a short term result? Because I don't think in the long run, that behavior stays just because you use power.

I agree. Yeah, I think that the point is that when you use a behaviorless approach, you get a change in the moment, but not over time, unless they're really terrified of you.

But then you will pay a huge price for it, which is when you can tell like they don't share. I don't know what's going on in their inner world. Their inner world is completely walled off to me because I've never cultivated in them the trust.

18:30

Connection Over Correction

I guess it's better if you want to look at it this way.

When you get resistance from your kids after you've asked for them to do something, instead of going into that one, two, three, you can stop for a minute and go, God, I wonder what they're saying yes to inside of themselves. They're saying no to me.

They're saying yes to something. I wonder what that is. So what is going on that they're saying yes to that and they can't pivot and change and do the thing that I'm hoping that they would do?

So curiosity, it's a good starting place. Also looking at it, not as disrespectful. Instead, you're looking at it as, huh, I wonder what's going on there.

I have a story about my dad when I left my daughter with him. We'd come home to the United States for a summer. I said, you know, dad, would you look after her?

And he said, yeah, sure, no problem. And I came home and, wow, where is she? Well, I sent her to her room, honey.

She was disrespectful. And this is a child who'd never been punished and sent to her room. She was absolutely apoplectic and didn't know what had happened.

I said, what are you talking about, dad? Well, I told her that, you know, I had made lunch and it was time to come to lunch. And she did not come.

And she was disrespecting her grandpa. And I was like, wow, okay, that's how you saw it. So I went downstairs and I said to my daughter, you know, honey, what's going on?

I can see you're really upset. And grandpa said you disrespected him. And she said, I don't even know what that means, mommy.

She was like six years old and she's choking her tears back. I was finishing my drawing. I was just about done.

And then I was going to come over and join grandpa. And then he exploded and he got so mad at me. And then he put me downstairs and I've been here the whole time crying.

She had no idea. And of course, disrespect was never in her heart. All she was doing was finishing her drawing.

And because she didn't come fast enough, because he couldn't wait for her to finish, because he wasn't curious why she wasn't there immediately, that was disrespect. So who disrespected who?

It reminds me of my parents had my baby brother. I was 23. So we have a 23 year gap.

Oh, wow.

Big gap.

It's huge. And when he was born, I remember just like your daughter, I used to say to mom, we need to get going. Why is he still, and my mom says, he's working on his own clock.

I said, you never had this understanding for us when we were growing up.

Wow, that was very insightful.

Yes. So if he was doing his own drawing like your daughter, my mom understood. I don't know how, because we used to comply.

You're a great mom.

Yes.

And she said, because of his age. So I think that your dad, because of the era he comes from, it's almost like when my mom was raising us versus when she was raising my baby brother.

For sure. And the beautiful thing about this story with my dad, my dad was born in 1915. So at the time he was, I don't know, maybe 85 or maybe even older.

But I came upstairs with my daughter and I sat down between the two of them. And I said, you guys, I'm sorry you've had a breakdown.

I said, dad, I understand that from your perspective, when she didn't get up right away, that you went to her being disrespectful.

And then I turned to my daughter and I said, honey, I understand from our conversation that you were just finishing your drawing and about to come over and meet grandpa when he started getting really upset with you and you didn't even understand why.

And I looked at the two of them and I said, I hope you guys can work this out because it'd be a shame for you to have this big breakdown. And they each kind of went around and did their own thing.

And then a couple hours later, my dad came to me and he said, honey, it's a better way.

And so the short term gains of compliance, but if we communicate and have the patience to say, the curiosity as well, as you mentioned, to say, I need to establish why you're not coming to the dinner table now as expected.

Well, expected by me. Yeah, or demanded by me. I mean, we haven't even talked about this whole type of communication style, which is called request or demand.

So people who hear demand language over and over again, generally stop liking being around that person. It's very difficult to just have demand after demand after demand without anybody ever thinking about, like, what about you?

What's going on for you?

Do you even care what I think or you're just demanding, demanding, demanding?

That's, I think, the experience of kids most of the time. Do we care what I think? I think I hear that a lot, where kids will say to their parents, do you even care what's going on for me?

Do you even care what I think? Do you even care what's happening? Like a lot of kids, school is exhausting and they come home completely tapped out just to recover from that hard day at school.

And for some kids, it can be really hard and for others less so. I mean, there's so many factors that go into it. Groups and teachers and feeling supported or not supported, or bullies or social situations and awkwardness.

And there can be all sorts of things going on that make that day that kids are experiencing a great day or not so great.

And so when we then instantly go into the negative view of children and assume the worse that they're being bratty and disrespectful, then it's just one more thing on them.

When we could have chosen to see them beautiful, we could have chosen to look at that as, you know, Hi, I wonder if they had a tough day. I wonder how that's going. I wonder how much support they need for me.

Just kind of start looking at them as people. Children are people too.

And one of the ways in which we teach emotional intelligence at home, if I need your cooperation, there's a way in which I will communicate rather than demand or use my power as a parent to say, I need the outcome.

Precisely. So with the Guidance Approach to Parenting, it's not about not having your needs as a parent for cooperation and support around the house. It's about how you communicate your needs.

You know, when we talked about, is it effective or ineffective communication? Well, effective communication is where you haven't damaged the relationship.

So everything pretty much that we've been talking about, that is the playbook often, is ineffective communication because it is damaging the relationship. And whenever you damage a relationship, you're paying for it.

Even if you really just care about behavior, I say, I don't know if I really believe that. I believe people want the behavior that they want. But I also believe that they're concerned about why they're getting it.

I don't really believe that people care that it's okay if it's out of fear. I think that they don't want it to be because of fear.

I think they want them to be considerate, thoughtful, kind, and to be doing these actions and behaviors because they care, they want to make a contribution, they are thoughtful, they are kind, and the communication or failure of the communication to

take them into consideration so that they learn what it looks like for an adult to say something in a way that takes the other person into consideration. Hey, Johnny, Joey, Jill, Jack, I'm really, really struggling today.

I've got so much on my own plate. I could really use some help. Would you guys be willing to pitch in and help me today?

Then you may get a variety of different responses. Somebody might pop out of their chair and say, yeah, I'd love to. You know this.

You're a teacher. You've seen it.

Yes.

You offer kids opportunity to help you.

They will look after you.

Falling over one another because they actually do want to make a contribution. Same thing at home.

If you take out of the atmosphere, all the things that have developed that created the resentment flow in the first place, then they're going to do the same thing they do to you as a teacher. They're going to run over, what can I do, mom?

How can I help? And on the days when that doesn't happen, you have the opportunity to go sit by them and say, hey, everything okay? Are you all right?

Want to snuggle for a little bit? How was school maybe? Or you can wait on that question.

Because sometimes they don't want to talk about it right away. They need to fill themselves up. But if we see them beautiful, then when we get a little bit of resistance, we don't go to disrespectful.

We usually go to curiosity and then compassion and then understanding and then empathy and then more communication about it. And then before you know it, they're in the kitchen with you, putting the dishes away.

Because they see you as someone who cared so much about their soul before the behavior, that you cared more about connection than correction. Everything is about that connection and feeling close.

If any parent is listening and there's already the resentment flow, how do they then, after hearing you, start on this path of the connection and the collaboration? How do they start communicating differently?

Because I'm sure even the kids are thinking, mom sounds different compared to any other day. What's going on? You know how they are sometimes.

You are right on the money, girl.

You are right on the money. I've had clients say to me that their child said to them, you're not my mommy.

I can't believe it.

Because they're used to yelling and demanding and foot stomping and all the rest of it. The first thing I guess we need to do is a lot of self-compassion and just being kind to oneself.

Whenever we begin to have an aha, did I generate this resentment flow because of the way that I've been dealing with conflict? Then all of a sudden, we recognize that, wow, this resentment flow was activated by my controlling form of discipline.

The beauty of that is that number one, you can change it because you can change your way to resolve conflict. You don't have to keep cultivating the resentment flow. You can completely change that.

The second is that you are going to have to take the time to recover from the resentment flow that's there.

And that's going to really require a child beginning to recognize that you really have changed and that you're more concerned with the connection than with that particular behavior.

Your focus now is more looking at how do I repair my relationship with my son or daughter so that we are good again.

So it can spontaneously come from the inside out these deep desires that they have to just pitch in and help out and be a part of the family.

I mean, if you have a highly autonomous child, which is the one that's prepared to risk your disapproval in order to stay true to themselves, those kids, even if they had wanted to do the thing you asked them to do, on principle, they can't do it

now. Because if I do it now, it's going to look like I did it because you have power over me. And I won't ever let you think that you can control me. So fine, send me to my room, I'll spend the rest of my life there.

No problem. They won't let you feel like you can control them. So that subset of autonomous kids are the ones that push back.

They're the problem child, highly spirited. There are lots of books written about these kids.

The predominant culture in childhood and adulthood, everything, 70% is usually the number I hear, are people who are concerned about what you think about them. The belongers, sometimes they get this terrible thing called people pleasers.

And they are not going to risk your disapproval. They will forget about their own feelings and needs, abandon themselves completely and do what you want, even if it's not in service to them.

They won't even think about speaking up for themselves because they've had that drilled out of them.

30:34

Dangers of Compliance

And this to me is the greatest harm. The greatest harm is when we teach our children that they don't matter and they begin to believe us. And they forget how to advocate and they lose their voice and they stop speaking up.

And they don't even think about rocking the boat. That is the greatest harm. And that is one of our key reasons why we would never want to teach someone obedience and compliance.

And we would always opt for teaching consideration and kindness so that they can learn to be considerate and reasonable.

And it's because they've been treated considerably and treated reasonably and made to believe that their voice matters and taught how to use it so that they can say something about their feelings without risking all of this word vomit about being

disrespectful because they're never supposed to speak up and have feelings or needs when that's part of the human condition is that no matter what your age is, you're going to have feelings and needs, of course, of course, but you can teach somebody

they don't through obedience and compliance. You can teach them to bow with the powers that be. And that begins in the family.

And then it goes out into their communities and into society until they're completely muffled and they just go along obediently and compliantly. If you want to dominate a culture, start at home. Teach them how to be dominated.

Teach them how to be compliant. Teach them not to speak up for themselves and they'll learn it for the rest of their lives. They will struggle as adults to find their voice.

They will not use it if the person around them is reactive, because they were trained by a reactive parent and they've learned. And now you see where people in society become mute in the face of not being considered.

They don't say anything because they were trained not to.

Even as adults.

Very dangerous. I mean, child sexual abuse, all the studies, you can look at them. They're all about kids that do as they're told.

They've been taught to do as they're told. They learned well.

And therefore, they don't speak up.

They don't.

When that happens.

That's right, because they've been trained not to. So your kids having a no and a really good connection to their no, applaud it. Encourage it.

Support them. Don't take it personally. When they say no to you, they're saying yes to something inside of themselves.

Get curious. You know, hey, I'm getting the impression that this is a solid no from you. All right.

What are you saying yes to? What's going on in there?

Right.

Well, I'm not done with my drawing. Do you need a little more time? Please.

Could I have five more minutes? Of course you can. You think that's enough?

Yeah, I think it's okay. Sure. Go ahead.

Finish it off. And then they finish it off and they come over and they help you. And you avoid breakdowns and disconnections because of your mind that told you that they didn't like my dad.

They don't come now. It's because they're disrespectful. No, it's because they're finishing their drawing.

There was no mind around it. He made the whole thing up.

And we tend to do that.

We all make it up all the time, which is another skill to say, am I lying to myself? Am I making up a narrative that's not even true about this situation, this person? And of course, you can see that this applies way past parenting.

Right.

Right.

This is human dynamics in all of our venues, at home, at the workplace, in our families, as adults, in friendships, in friendships with our neighbors. It's all the same stuff. What am I telling myself about their motivations?

That's key. We spend a lot of time making up stories about other people's motivation. Very rarely are they true.

Most of our thoughts, I can't remember what the percentages are, negative. And of those negative thoughts, 99% are untrue. We make up a lot of stuff, and then we believe it.

It's like we're looking at it.

And then we look for evidence for it, and we find it.

And we look for evidence. That's right. And now we're in a total overreaction.

We look for evidence. We call everybody we know. We form alliances.

And it's all, you know, as Shakespeare said, me thinks he doth protest too much.

Yeah.

What are you lying to yourself about? That you're trying to get everybody in the neighborhood to agree with the lie. Why is the truth so dangerous?

Why is the truth so dangerous indeed?

35:17

Resources and Farewell

Words of Wisdom from Katherine Sellery, the EQ and Transformational Communications Coach, who rewrote the rules of parenting and leadership and three times TEDx speaker. Katherine, do you still have the quiz on your website?

Yeah. Yeah. The quiz is on our site.

Please give us details.

I will send that to you.

Yes.

Okay. I'll put it on the show notes. Thank you so much.

And I also, if people want to go to freeparentingbook.com, at freeparentingbook.com I give away my Amazon Best Seller 7 Strategies to keep your relationship with your kids from hitting the boiling point.

freeparentingbook.com.

Thank you so much for that gift. I will put all those details on the show notes. Thank you, Katherine.

This has been very eye-opening. And I had so much fun. Yes.

We had lots of fun. Thank you so much. Thank you.

My absolute pleasure. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify. And stay tuned for more episodes to come.