Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your leadership skills, your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast for you. Today I am joined by Jessica Malone. She is the founder of NachoAverageFro, and she is a life design coach. Before I go any further, please help me welcome Jessica. Good to have you here, Jessica. Thank you so much for having me. I am very intrigued by your story. And we're gonna talk about that later, especially the culture that we're in. Tell us first of all, a bit of background about you. Sure, so I am a Texas native born and raised in the state of Texas. And I think that my story is one of a breaking free of expectation. I grew up on a track. I always performed in school. I did everything that a person was supposed to do. graduating top of my class, getting into a fortune 10 company, excelling through corporate America, internships, study abroad, I did all of the things. And I came to a point in my life where I realized that I wasn't really living the life that I wanted to lead. And so I feel like there's these two distinct parts of who I was as someone who was always thinking about how to uphold expectations and who I am as I think about choosing the life that I want to leave and living more. And so part of that journey, the second phase of my journey is entrepreneurship, van life, which I'm sure we'll talk about more, and pursuing a life of simplicity as a minimalist. So I can focus on the things that really matter to me. How did the light bulb moment come when you decided, huh, this is not the person I want to be. This person was just meeting expectations. Yeah. So I feel like it really happened in phases. I can remember it happening as early as college. When I got ready, when I graduated from high school, actually, I really didn't have a strong interest in going to college, but it was something that had always been talked about in my household. I graduated in the top 10 percent of my high school class, partially to get a scholarship to go to school. That was something that my parents and I had always talked about. So I knew that was the expectation, but I never felt this strong desire to go. And after I graduated, I remember coming home to my parents and saying, I want to be a bartender. I don't. really want to go into corporate. I graduated, you know, top of class there with summa cum laude graduate in college. And I was like, I want to be a bartender. Like I want to take off time. I'd be so confused if I was your parents. Oh, they were. My parents were like, absolutely not. We didn't put you through all of this to go and tend a bar. But I think that for me, I didn't realize what it was at the time, but I think I was already tired, exhausted from. just the focus that I had put on school, it was never really something that was super important to me. It was something that I think was really important to my parents. And I understood how performing academically could benefit me in my life. I understood intellectually why I'm doing it, but I don't know that it was ever something that was really important to me. And all credit to your parents. Every parent wants what's best for their children. Who goes to them for that. Absolutely, absolutely. No, I think I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for them. But I can recognize that it wasn't something that I was driving, if you know what I mean. Right. I think I've always been someone who really enjoyed more creative pursuits. And I think that's where that desire to just do something else came from when I graduated from school. So that was the second time. Then I went into corporate. I did end up getting a pretty high paying corporate job. When I got there, I didn't feel very accepted. I had just gone natural. I had just cut off all my permed hair and started wearing my hair in its natural Afro. And I had a boss who was not comfortable with that. And she told me, you know, you need to be thinking about how you can make people comfortable and it's really important that, it is a black woman, which made it more surprising for me. Oh, that is surprising. Yes. And so she was. really grooming me. And again, it was one of those things where intellectually, I understand what you're saying. I understand that you want me to- How the world works. Exactly. But now it's again, another example of, well, I don't really feel like I can just be myself. I don't really feel like I can just be who I wanna be. And throughout corporate America, I didn't have as many issues with my hair after I left her leadership, but I did just find myself not being valued. The skills that I brought to the table weren't valued all the time from my management team. Do you know why just in general? Obviously there would be specifics that you're not aware of. It's hard to say. I think that in some instances it was, I don't know if jealousy is the right word, but I had a boss once who told me she thought I was lucky to get paid what I was making. Despite my credentials, she had taken me through the wringer. I wanted to be promoted. She told my former boss that she would bring me to her team, but she wanted to have kind of a trial period. So she tested me out. blew it out of the water, got a raise. Congratulations. Thank you. And then I got two raises in about six months time. What she didn't realize was I was actually being underpaid when I came to her team. And so HR informed me, you're being underpaid, we need to bump you up. And then a few months later, she had to give me a raise just because it was time for performance raises. And she told me, you know, you're really lucky to be making this kind of money at your age. Most people don't make this kind of money. Where you are. What have most people got to do with you? Nothing. And so I felt like I came here and you put me on this trial and I performed well. And I feel like this compensation is a reflection of my performance. And yet I'm being told, you know, I'm just lucky. Is it a question of, this is how I started at this age. If you're a, why do you have to be up here? Yeah, I think it was a little bit of that. Maybe, again, I don't know if jealousy is the best word, but. You know, people are always, they're not really responding to you, but more or less how what you do exactly makes them feel. And I think that I made some people feel uncomfortable. Did you change your perception of corporate life or just that one particular individual? Definitely my perception of corporate life. Working under her leadership was when I decided that. I've got to do something else. That's when I started thinking seriously about entrepreneurship because I was really tired of not being accepted or not feeling like I could just be myself, be valued for who I was. And that's when I started thinking, what else can I do? Where else can I go? What skills can I turn into a business? And so what was the next part of the journey? The next part of the journey was launching what is now known as Not Jarvage Fro. It went through a couple of iterations. I had a food blog for some time. It was called Tex Mex with Jess and I traveled and ate Tex Mex food. It was terrible for my waistline. I put on a lot of weight. And so I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna have to do something else. And I realized that blog. was really about escapism. I was not happy. And so eating created this distraction and calling myself a food blogger was a distraction. After the weight gain, I found myself just being even more unhappy with my life. And that's when I started thinking, okay, how do I create a life that I really love? And that's when I stumbled upon minimalism and I just started sharing my minimalism journey. I did a 30 day challenge, started sharing it on Instagram. And that was the basis for Not Your Average Throw, which has now become this lifestyle design company. Here's what I'm curious about. Yeah. When it comes to minimalism. I've been in this country for about two years. And when I visit some of my friends' apartments, people just have a lot of stuff. Yeah. Some of them have clothes, they haven't won, they still have price tags, but they're still buying more clothes. How do you decide to be a minimalist in a culture where people just have a lot of excessive? abundant stuff. I think it was because I had achieved so much so fast for my age, I looked around and realized all of the things people are striving for generally in our society have not brought me happiness. I had a lot of money. I was making nearly six figures before I was 26. So I had money. I was single, no children responsibilities, anything of the sort. I had the nice apartment. I mean, I drove a decent car, but it was paid off, you know. I had all of the things that people wanted, the electronics, the clothes. I used to take my mom on shopping sprees. I really had what everyone hopes for in a lot of ways. And I just wasn't happy. And I think that's what made minimalism feel so welcoming to me that it was like, there's really nothing for you in this world of materialism. We have to seek out something else. We have to get back to our core values and what is important to us and build a life that is a reflection of that. when you started the 30 day challenge, how did it make you feel different when you had less stuff in the house? Oh my gosh, I was so emotional. I cried a lot actually when I first started. Yeah, it was really hard because like I said, there were so many things in my life that I did because that was what I thought I was supposed to do. I'm an only child also, so it was just me and my parents. Whatever they said, I did it. I was a very obedient child. And so it became this tug of war. I recognized that. There are so many great things that happened in my life that are the result of my parents' expectations, but there was also this part of me that wanted something different. And so I felt guilty and in some ways ashamed because I knew there are people who would kill to live the kind of life that I'm living. You know what I mean? And so I was very, very emotional about it because it made me feel ungrateful in the very beginning. Why would you walk away from all of this, after everything your parents did for you? thinking about all the people who would love to be in your position. I just had to come to terms with realizing like, this isn't what I really want. There is somebody who wants this and I love that for them. I don't love it for me. We are not the police. Anyone who's listening, we never knock anybody being ambitious, striving for more. Kudos to you. Go with it during it. But sometimes if you feel like it's not for you, that's still okay too. Absolutely. So yeah, it was very emotional, but. Over time, liberating. It was so nice and freeing to let my desires be the highest authority for my life. Say that again. It was freeing to let my desires be the highest authority for my life. Extremely liberating. Moment of silence for that. That's a powerful statement. Have you found that, like you said, liberating? When I was home in South Africa, I used to have a lot of... clothes and everything. And then you come to South Korea, they give you a furnished apartment. So the only thing you move in with is your clothes. So I had to now downsize because you need the 23 kilos, the two, 23 kilo suitcases, and you'll carry on and that's it. So everything I have needed to fit into that and I had to let things go. And when I was there, every time, even if something is on sale for 10 bucks. Every time I was tempted to buy something, my first question would be, is it going to fit into my suitcases? Or he actually trained me to do that. Like, you're going to be throwing this at the airport. Yeah, like you said, it's liberating. You have less stuff to deal with. Yeah, for sure. It's less responsibility with less responsibility. You get the option to choose where you want to put your attention, where you want to put your focus, especially for that time in my life, that was so important to me because I was just starting an entrepreneurial journey. And I needed to be able to make that choice and have that freedom to choose. How did you start being an entrepreneur? So it started with sharing the minimalism journey online. And I had a weekly series called Minimalism Monday. I did it for, I think about three years, every Monday showed up live on Instagram to talk about what I was decluttering or how minimalism was impacting my life. And as I started to grow a following. I realized that there was something that really attracted people about my talk track and how my perception, I would say, on minimalism. I'm very intrigued by and connected to the emotional and psychological impacts of clutter. That's what I would talk to people about. And I cried a lot. So I knew that it was more than stuff from the very beginning. And so I started creating eBooks and guides to help people identify what psychological and emotional connections they had to their clutter. And over time that grew into a workshop and then now a coaching program. That's amazing. You know, Nisi Nesh, clean house. We have cleaned house. We have clean lives. You know? I used to watch that show and I used to think to myself, is that for TV or do people really have that much stuff? They can't even walk around their house. Yeah, people really do have that much stuff. I've seen it all over the spectrum. I am a firm believer that clutter isn't always about the amount of stuff that we have, but I have seen people with homes where they can't move, or they have things from decades old just collecting in their garage, or in a second bedroom, in a closet, that they haven't touched in years. And the psychology behind that is just in summary. Yeah, it varies by person, but... Generally, we are purchasing things to overcome our own discouraging or limiting beliefs. We are hoping that the stuff will fill the void of the thoughts that are occurring in our mind. Wow. Yeah. My thing was always that I wasn't enough. You know, my life had always led me to believe that. Although it's not true, just the stories I've shared with you so far, that was what I felt my life was reflecting back to me. So I accumulated things to feel worthy and valuable. which is what everybody's looking for. Exactly. And it's not just in our homes. Clutter shows up in our money, in our time, in our relationships, in our work. So at my job, I was constantly outperforming everyone because I thought that my achievements would equate to value and worth in my friendships. I did the same thing. I was always trying to be everything to everyone. Talk about that a little more. With my parents, they wanted their daughter to... be a certain way in a sense in my mind. They never really said this to me, but in my mind, there was a certain kind of person they wanted to be able to brag about. The girl who had the growing 401k. Hey, my African parents too. Extended family and the neighbors that, hey, my daughter achieved this. Yes, yes. It's normal. Yes. And so, yeah, you know, I felt like there was a person I needed to be in corporate because I thought that that's what my parents wanted so they could talk about their daughter and her achievements. And with my friends, always being there for them when they have problems being a listening ear, even if I didn't feel like I was being heard or if there was space for me in the relationship, I was always there. Oh, oh, God. The relationships felt one-sided? In a lot of ways. I didn't always feel like it was reciprocal. I would be there no matter what, even though I felt I don't really get to express myself. Back to the sense of worth. Absolutely. If my friends said, oh, I want to go on a diet, I might start looking up stuff. Oh, you should try this, you should try that. Or I went vegan for some time. If a friend said, I'm thinking about being vegan, I would create a whole Pinterest board of recipes for them. I was always just trying to support them in any way possible in hopes that made me valuable in that relationship. On the self-discovery generally, have those friendships been affected? Yes. Some friendships, they don't exist anymore. Some friendships are still there, but they have evolved. I think the more that I step into my own, the more that I also have boundaries, speak up for myself. I'm more open with my friends and the things that I'm willing to do and the things that I want to participate in, as opposed to just going with the flow. Because I wanted just to be there for them. Yes, wanted to. have somebody around called a friend. Right. My relationship with my mom has changed a lot. We used to shop a lot together and we don't do that anymore. And I think- And then Malicenio said no. Not anymore. And I think it was hard for her in the beginning, but what I did was I introduced her to this idea of gifting experiences. And so now we go and do things rather than just buy things. So we might go on a trip together. We might go to a concert together. We might go to the spa. Even though we're still spending money, we're doing things that create stronger bonds and memories than the shopping trip. Cause I'm going to leave the shopping trip with clothes, but did we really talk about anything? You know, were we really able to communicate and get to know each other? Not really, but traveling together and having these shared experiences creates stronger bonds and better memories. And so in that way, I've seen my relationships grow. It's like, Hey, there's another way to do this. And I just keep introducing the people in my life to that. And it's had great results. I mean, my mom started a business after I became a minimalist through work together. She was my first client. And so she now has a business and she's decluttered her money. And so it has had a huge impact on her and our relationship as a whole. So now mom has bragging rights. What are you complaining about? Absolutely. That's awesome. I love that. I just love how things turn out, living your true self, your best self, and everybody around you supports who you choose to become. Absolutely. Do you have one story you can share with us about one of your clients? You don't have to give details, but just how your business transforms their lives. Absolutely. One of the stories I love, and you can check it out in more detail on my website so I can kind of give you the short version here. One of my clients came to me when she was in the middle of... attempting to launch a business. She was working full-time, wanted to start a business on the side and she had already gone through a lot of the steps to get things going, but she found herself just kind of in this start and stop. and procrastinating. And so when we came to do our work together, we decluttered her kitchen. And through that, she learned that she often, like me, would do what other people expected of her more so than what she truly wanted. And so understanding that she recognized this is how I'm creating clutter in all these other aspects of my life. And so then she started putting her needs first. If I put my needs first, what would that look like at work, in my relationships, at home? Three months after we did our work together, she opened the doors on her business. She went to her job and she got a change in her schedule. They actually allowed her to work less hours so she could focus on her business launch and increased her pay because they recognized the value that she brought to the company. Yeah, and so I just love her story. It reflects back that idea of, you know, sometimes we're afraid to be who we are, do what we want, let our desires lead. But when we do that, it really always works out to our benefit. It does. It sounds scary and it sounds like it requires a lot of courage in order to step into that. Yeah. But I feel like just like your client, we teach people how to treat us. When she realized her value and her worth, look how the job responded. Right. Exactly. She's a big story. And I have clients, there's so many things. I've seen clients have huge weight loss, monetary savings, getting into new relationships. I mean, we declutter and they really decide. where it's most important to them. And I just help them to understand how they're doing things and how it's keeping them from the life that they really want. Okay, so in these five aspects, I'm going to ask you to give us one tip for decluttering. Okay. One tip for health. Identify what you love to eat and build a nutritional plan around that. Okay, one tip for wealth, finances. Let go of one thing that is misaligned with your goals. One tip for mental decluttering. Declutter your nightstand or whatever you see when you first wake up or when you go to bed at night in your bedroom. Including your phone, computer. That could be, yes. I don't keep my phone or my laptop in my bedroom anymore. Oh, that's a big one. Relationships. That one's very intricate, but I would say give. Time and energy to the relationships that were built on solid ground. The relationships that are the result of trying to fill your own void. Let those fall to the wayside. Declutter those relationships and lean into the others. And the last are spiritual decluttering. Ooh, that's a good one. I would say declutter your time so that you can spend time in silence. That's a good one. Yes, Jessica Malone, thank you so much. Nacho average fro. And before you go, all these nuggets, we want to hear more about them. You're going to have to tell us one by one on the interwebs where to find you. Absolutely. So you can find me at nacho average fro.com that's N A C H O like a nacho chip average fro.com. And it's the same on Instagram at nacho average fro. And that's pretty much it. There's not a lot of places to find me. I try to keep it simple. Okay. Just website and Instagram. Correct. We all need to declare no matter where we come from, no matter what stage of life we're in, it can only benefit us. Absolutely. First of all, we wanna be on a journey of self-discovery. Any last words before we go? I think to repeat what we said earlier, allow your desires to be the highest authority for your life. That's the most beautiful statement I have today. Thank you so much Jessica Malone, it was so good to have you here today. Thank you for having me.