Speaking and Communicating Podcast

People equate those communication skills, especially those soft skills, with being a good doctor or not.

So you can be a brilliant physician, you've read every book.

I knew some genius physicians, but they just couldn't communicate with patients.

And so they would tend to get complaints and just not have as good a results, just lacking those communication skills.

They were brilliant human beings, but without those communication skills, sometimes it doesn't translate well to the patients, and they just ended up not being as successful.

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating Podcast.

I am your host, Roberta Ndela.

If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning in to.

Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development.

And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify, and leave us a rating and a review.

Now let's get communicating.

Now let's get communicating with Dr.

Colonel Josh McConkey, who served his country for 22 years, is an emergency physician and an award-winning bestselling author.

He calls himself the MacGyver dog, which I thought was hilarious because I grew up watching MacGyver.

Yes.

Great show.

And my brother used to say, Oh, I love MacGyver.

He can take a pen and turn it into a bomb in five minutes.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for being here.

Dr.

MacConkey, welcome to the show.

Roberta, I appreciate you having me on the show.

Thank you very much.

My absolute pleasure.

Please introduce yourself to our listeners.

Josh McConkey, Dr.

Josh.

I'm an emergency physician and commander in the Air Force Reserves of an Andrews Air Force Base in Washington, DC.

As someone who's been leading and communicating for several decades in medicine and in the military, those communication skills are critically important, and I was very excited to be on the show.

Thank you for being here.

And here's the thing about communication and soft skills.

Why is it that college does not add that as an elective in addition to whatever it is you're studying?

You know, I had speech, there was a speech course that I took, but it doesn't talk about those really soft communication skills.

Those are some of the nuances of speech.

You know, just learning the empathy, the body language, those types of things that you kind of learn on your own.

As you progress through leadership, there should be some more courses on that for sure, because I think this generation in particular lacks a lot of basic communication skills, let alone those soft skills.

So that would be a great course.

Very much needed indeed.

So you decided to go into medicine, but then the military, why was that your choice versus just being at a hospital?

So I've always been a military history buff.

I grew up in a very rural small town in western Nebraska.

There wasn't a lot of other extracurricular activities other than sports.

I did some wrestling and some baseball, but I read a ton and I loved history.

So for me, trying to find a career that I was be able to provide food for my family and always have a job, health care.

My stepmother was a nurse and had great stories about the emergency rooms and medicine.

And so I had that push to get into health care as a career, but I love the military.

So I was able to put the two together, been very fortunate.

I had an ROTC scholarship that I had in college, but the school that I went to was too small.

They didn't have a program.

So I took a direct commission to the Medical Service Corps when I got into medical school.

And so I've been able to do both careers as a military reservist and health care.

And for me, it just brings a great balance.

When I get burned out on one, I can turn to the other and vice versa.

I've been very blessed.

You sound blessed indeed, because how many of us can see, I literally charted the perfect course for my career.

You know, I do what I love.

And it sounds like you really hit the jackpot on that.

Now, let's talk about your work and how you started, because obviously, you've been working for over two decades now.

When did you start to notice that those communication and then leadership skills were very important to what you were just trained as a physician?

So in residency, you spend so much time, you live in a hospital, you live, eat and breathe.

And I was a resident just before they started all of the work hour restrictions, those 80-hour work weeks.

So I still had some 100 hours, 110-hour work weeks in the hospital.

And if you don't learn how to communicate with people and patients and other physicians, your life is going to be very miserable very quickly.

Just being part of embracing the suck of being in a hospital for 100 hours a week, just you and your fellow residents, the attending physicians, the patients.

If you've watched the TV show Scrubs, people ask which of these TV shows is probably the most accurate as far as patient interactions and working with other physicians.

I got to go with Scrubs.

It's by far a lot more realistic.

And did you notice that some of your fellow residents, if they were not so strong in those skills or were not open to improving them, if they had in, like you said, Mr.

Polk, but what kind of actual practical challenges did they have because of that?

So you knew the people that had the communications problems.

They didn't fit in very well with the team trying to articulate things to them.

They got a lot of patient complaints as well.

People equate, like maybe it's fair or not fair, but they equate those communication skills, especially those soft skills, with being a good doctor or not.

So you can be a brilliant physician.

You've read every book.

I knew some genius physicians, but they just couldn't communicate with patients.

And so they would tend to get complaints and just not have as good a results, just lacking those communication skills.

They were brilliant human beings, but without those communication skills, sometimes it doesn't translate well to the patients, and they just ended up not being as successful.

Yeah, you know what?

We've heard that more in the corporate space, where I had a guest who said, let's say this is your leadership level, right?

If you're a 10 as a leader, but your communication skills are a 3, you are seen as a 3 as a leader, because it's all about perception.

If you're an average leader, but your communication skills, and I'm not saying that we downplay all your academic credentials, but he said you are perceived as even better than you really actually are.

If you know how to engage with people and talk to people, they think, oh, he's a greatly old, he's all that.

So I can see how that plays out in the medical field as well, which is, as you said, some people are brilliant and it's actually sad.

Their brilliance hides in hard drives, it hides within them because they don't know how to then externally make us aware of how brilliant they are because they don't know how to communicate that.

That's the values that we place in our society on those communication skills.

So those people that are able to communicate, they can get those messages across, they can articulate plans and actions.

At a higher level, those communication skills are very critical.

So I know some great leaders that aren't good communicators, and I know leaders that might not be so great on the leadership side, but with those communication skills, they tend to be elevated and they get better results from their team overall.

So I place a lot of value in that.

And how did you see that play out in the military?

So when you served, you served as a physician.

So please explain to me, because I'm a South African.

Yeah, so that's that do-hole.

Yeah, so I'm trying to understand the dynamic there.

Please go ahead.

So as you grow in leadership on the military side, I'm a great military physician.

I served in combat in Iraq.

I flew Medevac.

I did some medical support for air assaults, a bunch of other crazy things.

I'm very lucky to be alive.

And then, but the more you grow, it's more about leading people.

So right now, I serve as commander of an Aeromedical Staging Squadron.

I don't practice as a physician.

I lead people.

So we've got critical care air transport teams, like the mobile ICU teams, they can deploy anywhere on planet Earth in 24 hours.

We have an End Outpatient Staging System that is basically the connection between hospitals and the battlefield and aircraft, people getting on aircraft.

So they have to come through my staging facility to get on a C-17 or a KC-135 or some of those military aircraft to get to more advanced medical care, higher echelons of care back in the United States or Germany, those types of things.

And those leadership skills mean everything as a commander.

Every month, you know, I'm at drill, I've got 100 men and women under my command, and that guidance and the leadership and the empathy, understanding what they're going through, it's not just about leading, it's about like listening.

Every month, I have multiple people come to me with just their life issues and problems, barriers to their service, issues with their civilian employers, family deaths.

I even had an airman get involved in a shooting incident with a road rage incident a few months ago.

Those critical skills, those soft skills of empathy and listening skills, it helps me be a better leader because if I can't relate to them and they don't feel like I'm listening, they're not going to follow.

So if they trust you as a leader, they're going to follow you wherever you go.

Those are critical leadership skills.

Because they know that you care.

When it comes to personal issues, here is the debate, especially in the workspace.

How far should somebody bring their personal issues to work?

Or do some leaders think, hey, we're here to work, the deadlines are always shifting.

Do we have time to deal with that on a not regular basis?

But do we have time to bring the personal or let's just focus on work?

There's always time for people.

And you're good leaders, those leaders that are able to communicate effectively, they're going to understand that.

It's going to help you with your bottom line.

It's going to help you with those goals and those deadlines.

Now, I don't need to know all the details.

I don't need to sit there and have all the gossip sessions and know the more intricate details of everybody's life.

But at the very basic level, like, hey, my son was killed in a motorcycle accident.

I had one of my airmen, God, just terrible, and sit down and talk with them and some phone calls.

Number one, just to check in on him personally, like, how are you doing?

I can't imagine losing my child, but that's something they're going through.

Just being able to demonstrate that you care, that you can listen, that you have that empathy, that obviously had a huge impact on his military career and that job in the military as well.

I don't need to know all the intricacies of people's divorces and all the crazy family drama that goes on, but just the very basic level, I want to know how that affects them and just listen.

Sometimes they'll get into some details and say, hey, I don't need to know all the details.

I mean, I really do care, but I care about you as a person and how this affects your life and your output and what you bring to our squadron and safety, those types of issues.

It's really important to put people first.

I don't need all the details.

Of course, but I understand that balance, that, okay, we're going to take care of it so that you're okay enough to continue, but not that much detail at least.

That's why you believe that people are your best resource, essentially.

Any community, any country, the best resource is always people.

In my book, I talk about teachers, coaches, volunteers, families, those community of leaders.

That's the best resource we have in this country.

I'm glad to be a part of that.

Yes.

Thank you for saying that about teachers.

Yeah.

My wife is a teacher.

My mom is a teacher.

My mom has just retired fairly recently.

Those are really hard jobs.

But I love it.

Like you said, because of community, I love the impact.

When you listen to those stories of my fourth-grade teacher, made me realize how good I am in this, and some of the impact that teachers have, and coaches as well, of just having that imprint on someone, and they just take a different life trajectory just because you believed in them, or you show them where their talent lies, or what their gift is, the community, and you do believe in education and community.

So if you are not an actual qualified teacher, can you also participate in contributing to your community?

Absolutely.

Those are some of the most critical roles.

I've worked with special operations in the past.

I've worked with men and women that do just amazing things, jumping out of helicopters, kicking down doors, doing crazy stuff.

That type of confidence, they didn't develop that on their own.

So every one of those individuals has had a teacher or a coach or a volunteer that gave them that amazing confidence, their families.

So get out there and coach, little league, T-ball, soccer, get involved in your church, go volunteer at your school, or even getting in and volunteering at your local animal shelter.

Everybody has something to give.

I don't know if I could be a teacher.

Well, I am a teacher.

I was a Duke professor and I teach a lot of residents and physicians, obviously.

But in today's school system, my hat goes off to teachers.

I think they work in a very resource-constrained environment, and the expectations are a little unrealistic that you don't empower them to really keep these kids accountable, but yet you hold them accountable with all the grades and the testing, but you don't empower them all to actually hold the kids accountable.

It's kind of crazy right now, but just the stories I hear from my mom, those are critically important.

I'm glad you brought that up, because you are also on a mission to build the next generation of leaders.

So back to not holding kids accountable.

As I said, I'm South African, and some of the things I've noticed here is the differences in parenting, which then transfers to the school environment as well, because I could be wrong and please correct me on this, but there's just this element of, I'd say, allowing of things that I know my African mom, there's no way she could, or just my mom, for example, she'll say, that's not the path you're going down on, or in this house, these are the rules and my dad will fully support her on that.

Do you know what I mean?

So I don't know if it's this generation, is it the tech, because we didn't grow up with tech, is it just parents maybe being overwhelmed and feeling, I just don't have time to teach all this life skills and accountability and making sure that I follow through with whatever I said the rules of the house were.

What is actually going on now?

It's multifactorial.

So you had the whole COVID generation from Gen Z.

So this is a generation that you shut out of school for like two or three years, you shut out of schools, you shut out of churches, and they grew up around that technology just with iPads and iPhones.

So they already had difficulties communicating with other human beings because they'll sit that right next to each other and they'll text each other, you know, text each other messages like you're standing right next to them.

And they text back and forth with one another.

This culture of everybody's special, everybody's a winner, everybody gets a trophy.

That's not real life.

In real life, you do have winners and losers.

And losing is not a bad thing.

I mean, it motivates.

That fear of failure is a good thing.

There's nothing wrong with failing.

If you're not failing at something in life, then you're not really pushing yourself hard enough.

But there's a large contingency of parents that don't understand that.

And so you see the helicopter parents and even worse, the lawnmower parents, right?

They just mow down every obstacle in their kid's path thinking they're going to make their kid's life better.

And what they're doing is they're not allowing them to make mistakes and learn from mistakes and learn resiliency.

So you get these kids, they're 18 years old, you throw them into college, you throw them into the work world, and they've never had to encounter an obstacle in their life, and they just fold.

They quit, they don't have their resiliency skills, let alone the communication skills.

And as an emergency doctor, that ends up coming to see me with anxiety and depression and suicide.

And then as a military commander, this younger generation of airmen, there's a tendency to lack a lot of leadership skills and the communication.

And that lack of resiliency, and it puts us in a position where it affects our national security, because this is the future of our country.

And I was so concerned enough that that's why I wrote the book.

Dr.

Josh, I'm not a parent, so sounds to me like the most difficult job in the world.

But as I said, my parents used to say their job is to prepare us for a life that if something were to happen to them, we will still be able to thrive and feel that we have the wings to fly.

You know what I mean?

So part of that, what was necessary was, like I said, if something happened, they taught us choice and consequences because that's how life is.

They love us, but they know that also if we step outside the house, nobody loves me like my mom and dad.

I need to be prepared for that.

Why have parents, like, why aren't they giving that?

Or do they feel it's not loving to teach my child to discipline them, to say there's choice and consequences and that kind of thing?

I think it's a bit of a cultural shift in society.

I was raised in probably a more strict household in rural Western Nebraska, so definitely much different.

So that probably carries a lot into how I parent.

Parenting is an extremely difficult job because there's so many changes in the technology and the dangers that are out there.

You know, the media, social media has been horrific on children's development by a long shot.

Australia went a little on the overkill side where the government's now stepped in and said, there's no social media for children over 16, jail time and fines.

You know, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not really a big fan of governments kind of telling us what we can and can't do.

I think it probably needs to be a parent's decision.

And for me, like my children do not have social media for that very reason.

I don't need a government to tell me that.

But there's so many changes.

It's very, very difficult, but it is the most rewarding job out there.

Now, in developing this Future Leader, so what can any parent listening, what can they do if a nine-year-old has a phone or an iPad, but they're thinking, okay, let me try and follow this advice.

I want to do things differently starting today.

How do you then take it back?

Or how do you start having a different set of rules and more boundaries?

Well, there's a lot of education.

And so you sit down and you talk with your children about some of the dangers that are out there.

There's plenty of medical studies out there.

Not that the kids care the slightest on something like that, but the American Academy of Pediatrics has some great guidelines and some policy statements out there for social media use in children.

I've been a big proponent of limiting age.

Certainly under age 16 does not need to have social media.

And I liken that to the dangers that now the data that supports the increased depression and suicide rates in kids that are on social media at those younger ages.

Would you hand your child a loaded gun?

You know, when you talk about risks of death and morbidity and mortality, when you're handing your child social, you get like a nine-year-old or a ten-year-old social media and free range on a telephone, you're increasing their risk of death.

I mean, you might as well just hand them a loaded gun and tell them, hey, just be real careful, go out there.

It's very dangerous.

It's very well studied.

The data is crystal clear.

So if you wouldn't give your kid a loaded gun or give them the keys to your car, hey, just go drive down the street, be real safe, wear a seatbelt.

We would never do that.

So don't give your children social media at that young age.

Once they're of age, parents make their own decisions, make sure there's time regulations on there.

Like my kids, they've got access to their iPads for chatting and some video games and things, but only from defined time frames, usually on the weekends, like a couple hours at a time.

Kids will fall down those rabbit holes.

It's super addictive.

They'll spend days and weeks living on those things.

That's not real life, for these kids, that becomes their life.

Everything is about social media and iPads and being on the phone playing games, but get outside, get some sunshine, go talk with your friends, get some face-to-face time with human beings.

That's a generation that it's got a real challenge for.

It's difficult as a parent, but you have to hold firm on that.

You're not there to be their friend or their buddy.

You're there to be the parent, and sometimes you got to make those hard decisions.

They might not like you for a while, but it is the right thing.

As you said earlier, with regards to the communication skills, even some of the recruiters or even companies, company leaders are saying, this new generation, and you did mention that at the AMR as well, they just don't have the skills.

They don't look you in the eye during an interview because they're not used to talking.

They're always scrolling, and so they're not used to face-to-face communication.

They don't know how to engage in a back-and-forth conversation because of all this.

So it affects a lot of their development, and you are cultivating future leaders.

So what can corporate America, the military, what can they do to now bypass those challenges and help this new generation to develop those skills?

So realize that even if you don't have children as a community leader, as a military leader, as a business owner, this is 100 percent your problem because these kids are coming to you at age 18 or they get out of college 22, 23.

They're plugging into the workforce.

They're coming to talk to you about getting a job.

If you have done nothing to help out, and that's why I'm a big proponent of getting involved early.

Get involved in your community, engage your community, volunteer, be a mentor, coach a little league, coach soccer, volunteer in a school, do something to get involved and help teach this generation now.

Because if you wait until they turn 18 and you show up on your doorstep looking for a job, wow, you are way behind the eight ball.

You have a ton of work to do.

It's difficult to really have success.

This generation doesn't have the attention span to see something out for six months or a year or two years.

They want it immediate.

They want it now.

And they want to be really involved and part of that team right now.

That's what I've seen.

And that's just some of the lack of resiliency.

And the instant gratification, the instant gratification.

So if you're trying to start from zero, from scratch, like at age 18 or 22, you probably missed your window there.

So the earlier you get involved, the better it's going to be for you as a business owner or a leader, which then fits into the conflict resolution skills as well.

100 percent.

Yes.

Now let's talk about your book, Be the Weight Behind the Spear.

What was the motivation behind writing the book?

The things that we have talked about has been the motivation for that book, Gen Z COVID Generation.

Over the past three to four years, I've seen a crazy, there is clearly a mental health crisis in this country.

So anxiety, depression, and the suicides, I tell you, the suicides always rip your heart out.

That's the hardest part of the job.

You have to walk in, you talk to a family, parents, maybe it's one of the children, grandparents, and you sit down with that family, and you cry with that family.

It puts things into perspective, so there's clearly a mental health crisis.

Then that same generation, as a military commander, these are the same ones that lack the resiliency skills, they quit at a moment's notice.

It's been a difficult couple of years as a leader.

I had to learn to grow and how to deal with this.

I was concerned enough to write the book.

This is my prescription for the problem, for people to engage their communities and help this generation out now.

Very much needed.

Speaking of community, again, looking at the differences between where I come from and now being here in the States, I come from a place where if I locked myself out, my keys, I can just go to my next door neighbor, they sit there, they give me coffee and wait until the locksmith come, opens for me.

You know what I mean?

There's that, I can always go to some, even if I live in a different town from where I left my family, if I go to Johannesburg.

Yeah, we have that.

What city did you grow up near, Johannesburg?

I grew up in Durban by the East Coast, by the Indian Ocean.

However, most of my corporate jobs are in Johannesburg.

I spent a little time in South Africa.

I was there for the 2010 World Cup.

Yeah.

Yes, my mom had a bed and breakfast.

She hosted, oh, I can't remember the team.

Was it Argentina?

Some of the Argentina players, when they came to play in Durban, King Shaga.

And then she hosted another one as well, when they then moved to another city to go.

Oh, yes.

You are the girl.

I love that.

Yeah, I spent time in Rustenburg, Johannesburg, Nels Pruitt.

I was heading down to Bloemfontein.

I was going to spend some time there.

And the US won the group.

So I had to turn around and go back to Rustenburg.

I was planning on them taking second, but they actually took first in the group over England, which was a shocker.

Wow.

Yes, because England is...

I've never tipped the US as a soccer playing nation, so I was also very surprised at how well they did in the 2010 World Cup.

Yes.

I was there for the Ghana match that we lost 2 to 1.

I watched it in person in Rustenburg.

That was rough.

Yeah.

But back to, we had that sense of community.

Do you think that the mental health crisis here, you know, with social media as well, but it's also because you don't have that, I can reach out to the next person, my neighbor, you know, unless it's my family or somebody I grew up with and was friends with since kindergarten.

People here don't have that sense of, because back home, you can stop at a traffic light and say, Hey, my brother, how's it going if he's selling Coke cans at a traffic light?

You know what I mean?

Like, we have that community spirit.

Is that also a contributing factor to people feeling alone?

It certainly contributes, and there's a large difference in your urban and suburban versus very rural areas.

So there's some different dynamics to each of that.

I think growing up in some very rural towns, you probably had a little bit more sense of community like what you experienced.

And you know, the larger the city gets, the more group of people, the more almost isolated you get, let alone just the technology where people just, I mean, people didn't even do interviews in person for years.

I mean, we're starting to get back to that right now.

But so much of this has just been over video cameras and the telecommunications technology has been great, but it doesn't necessarily lend itself towards that community feel that people thrive in.

And so they do feel that, you know, instead of talking to someone I can trust, because that sense of community does give you the feeling that somebody has my back, even if they're not in your family, which you need.

You know, they say it takes a village.

It's not just people that are in my family.

Otherwise, I've nobody.

I don't think that's the way to live.

It definitely takes a village.

Any last words of wisdom on how to build this next generation of leaders, especially with the challenges we're facing?

It's an overall accountability.

If you don't feel like this is your problem, you're not going to do anything about it.

This is everyone's problem.

You, me, teachers, coaches, community leaders, everyone needs to own this problem.

Take pride in what you do and know that what you do every single day matters.

Everyone has different gifts.

Teachers, coaches, volunteers.

If you don't want to coach a little league sports, get involved in schools.

Even when you talk about getting involved with animal shelters, right?

Maybe you don't like working with people at all.

After 20 years in the emergency department, there's days where I definitely do not like being around other people.

I kind of see everyone at their worst.

But get involved in your animal shelters.

Those animals are going to be comfort and emotional support animals for somebody else later.

Just everything matters.

It all fits together in your community.

Even the smallest little thing can make a difference.

So you have to realize that one, you can be part of the solution.

You have to recognize there's a problem.

And what you do every single day matters.

Life is a team sport.

This is a team sport.

We need everybody.

You have a part to play in that.

Every person matters.

That's absolutely true.

Life is a team sport.

Would you say that when you do those things as well, how do you feel when you help someone?

Because they say it makes you feel better.

You forget your problems for a second and you realize that there's so much good in life versus what I thought at first.

That sense of purpose is incredibly powerful.

You'll see lower rates of anxiety and depression on people that are more engaged.

That joy of helping someone else through one of life's problems or coaching, or just being involved in your community, that sense of purpose is very powerful.

Every bit as much therapeutic as popping a pill for an antidepressant.

Words of wisdom from Dr.

Josh McConkey.

Life is a team sport.

Professor at Duke University, emergency physician of over 22 years, served the military, and is an award-winning, best-selling author of Be the Weight Behind the Spear.

Thank you very much for this conversation.

I enjoyed it immensely.

Ms.

Mamme, an absolute pleasure.

Thank you for having me on the show.

My absolute pleasure indeed.

Before you go, would you like our listeners to reach out to you and where?

Oh, please.

Online, our website is weightbehindthespear.com, so W-E-I-G-H-T.

On Twitter slash X, it's McConkey007 and Instagram is joshmcconkeymd.

weightbehindthespear.com, Josh McConkeymd.

Thank you very much for being on the show today.

Thank you very much.

My pleasure.

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