Speaking and Communicating Podcast

If you're approaching a CEO, if you have a company in common, talk about that as opposed to what you want from them, because you're, again, you're treating that person as a three-dimensional person, and you're showing that you're interested in them, not the transaction.

And that's really the real key to getting people to actually connect with you, regardless of how high profile or not high profile they are.

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating Podcast.

I am your host, Roberta Ndela.

If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into.

Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development.

And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review.

Now, let's get communicating with Rob Giardinelli.

I hope I got that right.

You got that right.

That was amazing.

Thank you.

Rob is here to join us.

He is founder of Event Mindset and is here to help professionals and entrepreneurs on how they can navigate social and networking events, because that will help you with your customers, increase your confidence, and most importantly, what we emphasize, which is relationship building.

And before I go any further, please welcome him to the show.

Hi, Rob.

Hi, Roberta.

It is so nice to be here with you.

I'm glad that you're here.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

I'm guessing your name in full is Robert, right?

It is Robert in full, but I have gone by Rob for ever, pretty much.

because I get told, oh, your name is a female version of Robert.

We do both have derivatives of that name.

That now that you bring that up, that's a really good point.

Well, welcome.

Thanks for joining us.

Please tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.

Actually, before I started Event Mindset, I spent 15 years in the tech industry.

About 10 years in the bad, I met my now husband and he runs a luxury lifestyle magazine.

So basically, I had a job where I was in a regional, national, global role.

So I would travel a lot of times domestically and a few times a year abroad during the week, and then I'd have to come home and throw on a tuxedo and go to these events that my now husband did as a part of his business.

About a year into that, he asked me if I wanted to start writing about it.

So I spent those next several years writing basically about these events that I was going to these social events.

And in the States, the philanthropy scene is rather large.

So a lot of the events I went to were philanthropic events, many of which raised a million, two million, five million dollars.

I mean, they raise a very good amount of money in a night.

And the more that I was going to these wonderful events on the weekends, the more, shall we say, nonplussed I was by business events that I was going to during the week, because there was just so much that people were leaving on the table, relationship-wise, growth-wise, and just understanding the best ways to behave to really propel your career forward.

And after about five years of that, I left the tech industry and really delved into writing full-time.

And then once the pandemic ended and lifted, I had taken that time to really decide what do I want the next step of my professional journey to be.

And as I started going to things post-COVID, I realized how rusty everybody was.

It wasn't just people who had no event experience, even people I knew who were very seasoned hosts and entertainers struggled a little bit.

It wasn't like they threw awful events, but, you know, everyone had kind of lost a step.

I always like to say that basically the world towards ACL, once things started opening up again, everyone was expected to run 22 miles in their first run after their knee rehab.

I mean, that's really basically what the world was expected of them.

And I founded an event mindset because I really wanted to empower people, not just the typical salespeople, but introverts especially, because I'm more of an introvert.

And introverts add so much value to events.

And there's just this stereotype out there that only extroverts can be successful.

And I can tell you, 2,000 events later, that's absolutely categorically not true.

It's funny, you were in tech.

We started this podcast because I have an engineering background from my home country.

And I said, you know, we box tech people and engineers into this.

You're an introvert to sit on your cubicle and talk to no one because you're brilliant, but you're brilliant to the silence.

First of all, we will talk about how introverts actually contribute so much, and that assumption is not true.

But then, what did you notice where differences in your work and then going with your now husband to something completely different from where I'm standing?

I think the thing is that when you go into a room like a gala that's very different from a business is there's more of a personal touch to it.

And I really realize a lot of business events, it's all business.

But when you would see someone buy a $50,000 auction package, there has to be some level of relationship building, but it's a balance of professional and personal.

And I've just found that any successful relationship, if it's only business, it's only transactional, especially during COVID, people, the tech industry in particular, most everyone in the tech industry was remote for several years.

That only amplified the isolation.

I don't necessarily have to talk or talk about things.

So really, the big difference with business events is a lot of times, they're very transactional and you see people in a one-dimensional way.

And that's the biggest challenge I always had in the corporate world is you are so much more interesting than what the corporate world wants to assign to you.

It's why I don't really like the word team.

I don't really use it very much, especially in my practice, because to me, the word team is limiting.

It means you have this specific role that you have to do.

And I always like to say that great events are an ensemble.

And it basically means that someone who has a unique skill set can just kind of go in and slide into a role if something, because anyone who has hosted an event knows this, unexpected things happen.

And if the team is working, the team, and I'm going to use that one time here, is working in concert, it really requires an ensemble for success so that people aren't stuck in their rigid roles.

And if something unexpected happens, no one knows what to do.

And then in these events, one thing that a lot of people have been accused of is you just give Rob your business card.

Hi, I'm Roberta.

Here's my business card.

I coach on this and communication skills and goodbye.

And then I carry a hundred of them because I want to give a hundred Robs my business card.

What is wrong with that model?

So first, you should never start with that.

That should always be an ending thing.

And you've got to feel, if you're feeling the person, you both have to feel one another.

And a lot of people struggle at networking events because the biggest challenge that a lot of people have is, well, how do I end a conversation and how long is too long?

If you're at a networking event with 75 or 100 people, you really shouldn't be talking to anybody for more than really 10 to 15 minutes at the absolute most.

That gives you enough time to feel that you've got a good energy and a good vibe with somebody, especially if you've uncovered some business opportunities.

I never say, here's my card, because you're asking something of them instead of you giving something to someone.

So it's always better to just say, I would love for us to exchange information.

And they may say, you know what?

I don't want to give you mine, but I'm glad to take yours, but you're giving them the power and you're making it a two-way street.

Whereas, if you're just pushing and giving your information, that's a one-way street, and people are going to be much less receptive to you and much less likely to want to work with you because you're seeing them as a transaction and not a person.

Yes, let's stick to that for a second.

We're looking for an opportunity, we're looking for potential customers.

You are looking for your next job to take it to the next level in your career.

How do you get what you want without sounding the way you just said, without sounding like you just want something, you see people as transactions?

You have to see people as three-dimensional.

You have to see them as more than just what they're there for.

And that's why we have talked a little bit earlier, is that's why it is so important to mix personal and professional.

I always like to ask, I always think that this is my power question, is ask about where they've traveled.

because it's an interesting thing that a lot of people can find things in common about.

There are either places that they've both visited, but it also kind of gives you a window into their personal lives.

because they may say, you know what?

I went to the Himalayas and climbed Mount Everest.

Well, you know that they like the outdoors.

It gives you an opening and an opportunity where they feel seen and you're asking for something that's more than just the primary reason that they're there.

Right.

So that's how you start the conversation usually.

Not just about the weather, because we're always good.

There's ways to be substantive.

And you know, in my practice, I have various conversation topics that are good ones that you can use in business that allows some persona to come in, but they're not overly invasive.

Can you practice that with those you are close to, family, friends, before going to these events?

Do you have any tips, especially an introvert, who wants to practice making small talk with friends and family, so that by the time they go to the event, they're not so rough around the edges?

That's a good question.

What I would say is, be yourself.

If you're an introvert, use your greatest strength.

And your greatest strength is that you can ask questions and get information.

And that's why, especially at things like conferences, introverts are so valuable.

because if you're going to a conference, you want to get information.

And if you ask good, open-ended questions, the one thing that never ceases to amaze me at events is, one, people love to talk about themselves, and two, what they're willing to share.

And if you ask open-ended questions, look them in the eye, and engage in active listening, there's really no telling to what people have.

I'll give an example.

My husband is the textbook definition of an extrovert.

I realized this very early on within the first three to six months of when we were together, and I started going to these things, where there were many times where we'd have to go to three and sometimes even four things in an evening.

And when we'd be in the car going from one thing to the next, what did you learn at this event and who you talk to?

And I was like, well, I learned this, this, this, this, this, this, and this.

And he would be like, well, you've been there 45 minutes.

How did you do that?

because he's an extrovert and he's like, how do you do that?

And I was like, I just asked questions and listened and people just open up.

And especially with networking events, I don't want this to sound tacky, but when liquid courage is involved, people tend to be a little bit more loose lipped.

And especially if you're going to some after hours reception, it's just amazing the information that you can find either about customers or about competitors if you're asking questions and you seem engaged with them.

So an introvert should absolutely lean into asking questions.

So if you're kind of the peacemaker in your circle of friends or in your family life, you're probably already used to that anyway.

It's basically taking that same skill and conveying it over to the business sense.

And there's a lot of overlap with social and professional in terms of social behavior that I have found.

You know, and a lot of that is because I go to gala's, which is a mix of professional and that money is going to be raised.

But it's also social because you've got business leaders mixed with socialites, mixed with nonprofit professionals, mixed with the people who get those organization services.

And it creates this wonderful tapestry of things.

And in those events, if you, like I said earlier, you're still working on your career or you just started a business, so you are looking for potential collaborations.

If you meet someone who you feel is powerful or is known that is powerful, or, you know, he runs a very successful Fortune 500 company.

How do you approach that conversation without sounding desperate or without sounding a little intimidated by them or like you're fanning over them like a little celebrity?

You know what I mean?

because sometimes we're human.

We fall into that trap.

I'm really glad you asked that question.

So it kind of goes back to what I said earlier about any person.

They want to be seen three dimensionally.

And I'll give you an example.

And this is especially true of celebrities.

So I've had the good fortune of talking with many, many celebrities over the years.

The thing is, is that if you fan out and you go up to them and you talk about that, it is something that they have probably heard 20,000 times before.

They're not going to want to engage.

They're going to feel guarded.

And again, they're going to feel one-dimensional.

And I remember one time, this was several years ago.

I was at an event.

Everyone knows who this person is.

And I had seen this person on a vintage game show, on the game show network, before their star really rose, before they kind of became this iconic name.

I started with that because one, you're letting that person kind of go back to earlier in their career, which was kind of when they probably felt less guarded anyway.

And they opened up, and we had like a 10 or 15 minute conversation with them, to the point where by the time someone else came over, I didn't even get a photo.

And that's kind of the other thing too, is if you're having a good conversation with someone who's high profile, especially if it's more social, don't ask for a photo unless it organically comes up, especially events with celebrities.

If you're having a good conversation, there may be an event photographer there, and they may ask to take a photo, and then you're not even doing it, and then you've got this great photograph that you can use and utilize.

And also, like you said, if everybody fans of them and you act differently, they're probably going to remember you more than everyone else.

Absolutely.

They'll actually remember that conversation.

Whereas if you just say, I love you for this, same thing.

And like if you're approaching a CEO, LinkedIn is a wonderful thing because you've got everyone's kind of professional list there.

You can look at their profile before they go.

And if you have a company in common, talk about that as opposed to what you want from them.

Or let's say you're passionate about animals, and that CEO was on the board of some animal advocacy organization.

Start with that because you're, again, you're treating that person as a three-dimensional person, and you're showing that you're interested in them, not the transaction.

And that's really the real key to getting people to actually connect with you, regardless of how high-profile or not high-profile they are.

Right.

because there's that quote that says, if you are interested in them, they will find you interesting, right?

Absolutely.

That is probably the ultimate hashtag, and that really is, I would say that phrase is the one thing that I have learned over the last 15 years doing this.

And then you and I are meeting virtually.

This is not an in-person sort of networking event.

What are some of the extra tips then if we're meeting on Zoom, and I want to apply those same principles that you've shared today, but this is virtual?

Look at their LinkedIn profile first and foremost.

Find that common denominator.

So there's one thing that applies.

Every single good host I've ever met knows how to be a good guest.

And all good guests are good dot connectors.

So you want to find the dots that are connecting between you and that person that are more than just the transaction or the reason that you're meeting.

You want to establish that connection.

So I went on your LinkedIn profile, Roberta, before we were on today.

See, we both did it.

So I saw you were from South Africa, but I also saw that you spent a couple of years in Korea.

And I'd be like, what was that like?

Tell me about what it was like.

I'm fascinated by you went from South Africa to Korea, and now you're in the States.

How did that happen?

That to me is a very interesting path.

And uniquely you, you get to be seen that way, that it's like, oh, you know what?

This person's actually taking an active interest in me because they want to know how I globetrotted the world, which is basically what you've done.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

I also went to yours.

That's how when I did the intro, I literally got it from your LinkedIn profile.

And speaking of that as an example, that would be very different from you just saying, oh, hi, Roberta.

Can I be your podcast?

I see you've done over 200 episodes.

I want to talk about networking.

It's a very different way of introducing yourself versus, you're South African who lived in Korea, and now in America.

What's that about?

You see?

No, it's not about that.

How did you get there?

See, I always like to ask kind of in really open-ended ways.

I have found, especially after COVID, people parse words.

So you want your questions to be as broad as possible so that they feel comfortable asking, especially because since COVID, a lot of people face social anxiety.

You want to ask questions in a way that's the least triggering way possible.

And I think it's going to be a little while longer.

I am encouraged that I've even read articles that Gen Z is not wanting to use apps as much to date and things like that.

They want to do more in-person things now because I think the isolation has been...

I've read two or three articles in the last six months about it.

So I hope that that's a trend and not three isolated incidents that some national publications did.

But that's the case.

I'm very encouraged for the future and that hopefully that people are not as triggered as we get further and further in the rearview mirror with the pandemic.

I'm glad you mentioned that because we talk about communication, which this is literally what you do.

And the problem with lack of in-person contact is there's so many misunderstandings, even when there's in-person contact.

But at least it's minimized if I'm with you in person versus talking on the app, the texting.

There's so much miscommunication, there are misunderstandings, and that's why people are always triggered and offended and fighting all the time.

Whereas if you misunderstand anything I said and we're in person, at least there you can read my body language and not likely go that direction, at least far down that rabbit hole.

Absolutely.

And I think I read something once that basically only 8% of what you actually say are the actual words, and the other 92% are all the other intangibles, we'll just call them.

Your non-verbal cues, the way you're looking at somebody, the way you're dressed, all those other things come into play with that.

So that's kind of why in-person is so important.

It gives people the understanding of context and what they said and why they said it, as opposed to just a written word that's there, that people may get upset about.

And the fact that when you're in person, it's only 8%, but we put 100% on it when it's not.

There's a lack of balance there.

And we start telling ourselves horror stories about what Rob thinks of me is not gonna happen.

You know, precisely.

And you know, it's really important for people to stop and think with that, especially when they're triggered with words.

I know people that are very terse in email, but they're lovely people in person.

So, you know, you have to decouple that sometimes.

And it's because they do really well at the other 92%, and they don't do so great with the 8% when you're in person.

But that can kind of come across as cold or unfeeling or abrupt when it's in a written form.

So having an understanding of that person, because every single person has their preferred method of communication.

And some people, it's in person.

Other people, it's text.

Some people, it's phone.

Some people, it's email.

Every single person is different.

And it's a really important thing for people to keep mind of.

Absolutely.

You've been to over 2,000 networking events.

I'm curious now from an audience member's standpoint, when it's a fundraising event and the person who's speaking is asking the audience to donate money.

What is it about them?

Do they do anything special to encourage the audience to donate to whatever philanthropic cause that they're promoting?

That's a really good question.

And the answer is, it's not a one-size-fits-all strategy per se.

So you'll have some organizations that will do a video, and then they'll do a direct appeal after the fact.

Other organizations might do a live auction where you're bidding on experiential packages.

So a lot of it really kind of depends on the audience and what that particular audience wants.

Like the Dell Children's Medical Center here in Austin has a foundation, and they raised over a million dollars just on appeals in a room of 500 people, or less than 500 people.

So they got the right people in the room, they knew who was going to give, and they did a very emotional testimonial and video about how that organization has helped children in their backyard, and that compelled people to give.

Other organizations, like Matthew mcconaughey does a gala.

It raised 16 million dollars this past April.

They have auction packages that are experiential that go for seven figures, like several million dollars.

So a lot of it is knowing and understanding your audience, and when you're communicating with people, each person's an individual audience.

So keep that in mind.

I believe everyone's equal, but at the same time, everyone has different ways of communicating, and you've got to tailor how you're communicating to connect with them.

Exactly.

Yes, everyone's equal, but people are going to respond in different ways because we're human beings, we're not robots.

So you've got to keep those things in mind when you're communicating with them, and understanding your audience, whether it's an audience of one or an audience of a thousand, keep that in mind because you'll build more connections if you follow that rule.

And it's very much a golden rule.

Yes.

We call it the platinum rule.

So golden means I treat you the way I want to be treated.

Platinum rule is I like communicating a certain way, but I must communicate the way Rob likes to be communicated to.

I wouldn't say must, but someone has to be first in that effort.

So if you're the one making the effort to do it, if they're a person that you develop a long enough relationship with, if it's a true two-sided relationship, they'll adapt to your communication style as well.

Right.

If they're an active listener, like you said.

Absolutely.

So please, just one last thing, because I think sometimes in promoting that we need to communicate more, communicate more, we do, especially if you're an extrovert, tend to miss some cues.

How can we improve on our active listening skills, especially as extroverts?

That's an excellent question.

And kind of think about it this way.

I've been to over 2,000 events.

I've never been to a successful one that does not have both extroverts and introverts.

So think about it this way.

If you only have introverts, there's no oxygen in the room, and if there's no oxygen, I see a lot of plants behind you, the plants won't live.

If you only have extroverts in the room, there's too much oxygen in the room.

Everyone knows if there's too much oxygen in the room, things will explode.

So the one thing is that if an extrovert is there and they're holding court, stop for a moment.

Just let your mind stop.

Ask somebody a question.

Sometimes people are thrown by it, but if someone's particularly engaged and you see that as an extrovert, just stop and pay attention and see who's looking at me, the most interested.

Stop and ask them a question because like you said earlier about to be interesting, you have to be interested.

It has to be a two-way communication.

And yes, celebrities, that's a little bit of a different thing because again, people kind of come up for that same thing and some of them will either regale about it or others will just shut down about it.

You know, just keep in mind to stop, ask a question, and then get one in return.

And that really shows that not only are you an extrovert, but that you pay attention to things around you.

You know, with events in particular, extroverts can sometimes even have a harder time than introverts, because extroverts are giving information.

They're not getting information.

So while they may be able to close a deal, they may not necessarily be the best at gathering intelligence to help you get a competitive edge.

Just like you said about your husband, that you gather a lot of information from an event than he does, because that means a lot of the time he's just doing the talking.

Exactly.

So you balance each other out, yeah.

Very much.

And he's very good about, like if I haven't talked for a while, he'll be like, and Rob has ex.

Like if we're both together talking to somebody, he knows well enough to know, I've talked for a while, now I'm going to give the spotlight to somebody else for a moment.

That's a good extrovert.

A good extrovert is comfortable and confident enough in their own skin that they don't need to have the spotlight on them at all times.

And that's the difference between being an extrovert and being a grandstandard.

And I think everyone knows a few grandstanders, everyone on the planet does, but that's the difference between someone who's an extrovert and extremely charismatic versus someone who grandstands.

That is so key, especially when a lot of work went virtual.

We used to ask, how do you include those on the screen of the 20 of us who don't say anything?

You know, in some cultures, people are more quiet.

So if they work with Americans, Americans just take over the conversation.

I was in South Korea, so they tend to be more naturally introverted.

You're more quiet a colleague.

How do you bring them in?

Are you even aware that they have spoken for an hour?

I know an extrovert who is an extremely good host, and in the middle of a conversation, we'll turn and be like, oh, you've been here 30 minutes.

Oh, Rob, tell me about this.

So a good host is going to be able to, on Zoom conversations, just say, you know what?

So and so, I haven't heard from you yet, and especially because if you've had one-on-one conversations with them, you know that they've got a lot of interesting things to say.

Just say, you know what?

I haven't heard from you in a while, and I would love for you to share.

That's the key to being a good host is a good host realizes that everyone's got value.

Otherwise, they shouldn't be on their list.

Let them show their value, and that's a really good way if you're moderating or hosting something to just shift the focus, especially if you know that it's something that's just been spoken about that that person can add a really good contribution to.

That's something a lot of us, while we own Zoom meetings and masterminds and all that, that we need to be cognizant of, especially, like you said, if we're extroverted.

Any last words of wisdom, Rob?

I'm going to start with the one thing that I said pretty much earlier on here, and that is every single good host knows how to be a good guest, and every single good guest knows how to be a good dot connector.

So just remember those three dots of dot connector, good guest, good host, and think of it kind of as a line with three little dots on it.

Keep that in mind.

And lastly, if you're an introvert, you belong.

That is the last thing I want to say as a guest here today, because so many people tell you that you don't, and I can just tell you from my experience, I wouldn't keep getting invited back if I didn't bring value as an introvert.

So remember that you have tremendous value.

Use your natural tools to allow yourself to shine, others to notice, and you'll get invited back to more things as well.

I've never heard anybody say that that's interesting, that they make introverts feel like they don't belong in some spaces.

Sometimes they do, especially in a competitive corporate environment.

The charismatic salesperson is always who gets invited to X.

They're great with that one account, and I knew plenty of introverted salespeople during my time in tech.

They would also make Presidents Club frequently because they were excellent listeners and they were excellent managers.

And sometimes those people can get overlooked because the person with the most charisma and the loudest voice in the room gets the most attention.

And that does happen in the corporate space.

I've seen it happen all the time where there's overlooked people that if they just looked at this is a conference and this is really about information gathering, it's not about backslaping and glad handling.

That person is the person I should be sending in my organization, not the extrovert who is just going to command and draw the room and give information, but not get any.

Even though we do observe that, I think sometimes we're not aware of the impact that it has.

Thank you so much.

You, by the way, have been an excellent guest.

So if you were to have a show, you'd be an excellent host too.

Thank you, Rob.

My pleasure, Roberto.

It was wonderful to be here, and you were an amazing host.

So thank you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

And before you go, please tell our listeners where they can find you after this conversation.

Absolutely.

You can go to eventmindset.com.

You can download a PDF I have, which is called Six Ways to Gracefully Exit Any Conversation.

And you can find me on Instagram or LinkedIn at RobGiardinelli.

Six Ways to Gracefully Exit Any Conversation.

That's one thing some extroverts might struggle with as well.

And people are thinking, when should we live, when should we live?

They don't know when to end the conversation a lot of the time.

So I've got much experience with that.

So, right.

eventmindset.com, Rob Giardinelli on LinkedIn.

Thank you so much.

This has been such an enjoyable conversation.

I'm glad that you were here today.

Thank you, Roberta.

This was an absolute pleasure.

My pleasure as well.

Thank you for joining us on the Speaking on Communicating Podcast once again.

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