Speaking and Communicating Podcast

We put them in a box of, they're moody, they're giving me all this pushback, they have all this attitude.

Yet, if we frame it as in to say, hey, this is why you're like that, I understand, and I'm sharing this understanding with you, it helps them make more sense of what's happening in their head, and that opens up the conversation.

welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating Podcast.

I am your host, Robert and Leila.

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Now let's get communicating with Marcus Higgs, oiling all the way from beautiful Bahamas.

Hi, Rihanna.

Marcus is specializing in not only communication but helping business professionals who are parents of teens to communicate with their teens.

Research has shown that there's a disconnect between parents, 93 percent of them at least, thinking that there's great communication between them and their pre-teens or teenagers, whereas only 59 percent of those children feel that they have good communication with their parents.

We're going to find out from Marcus how he helps them.

Before we get into that, let's welcome him to the show.

Hi, Marcus.

Hello, Roberta.

It is wonderful to be here.

Thank you.

I'm looking forward to this conversation.

I'm so glad you've joined us as well.

welcome.

I'm looking forward to it myself.

Please introduce yourself and tell our listeners who you are.

Yes.

I'm Marcus Aurelius Higgs.

I'm a communication coach for parents of pre-teens.

I really do love what I'm doing.

Communication is my background with journalism.

I went to Oakwood University in Huntsville, Alabama.

Straightway went to South Korea, where I served as a missionary teacher and came out of that position, but still continued teaching, taught in Saudi Arabia, Spain, and Thailand.

These were the conversations that I would have in my classes, taught grade 12 and grade nine.

And as I say, I love people.

It's also true, I don't love your kids as much as you do.

So I transitioned out of the class, but still wanted to support parents in what they do.

And this was a need.

I was answering the question, how do I address the mental health challenges of the world?

Your quality of life is directly related to your quality of communication.

Please say that again.

With that, the quality of your life is directly related to your quality of your communication.

That's your ability to talk to yourself and your ability to talk with others.

And it's interesting that step that you just sit at the top of the show.

Whereas a lot of parents feel they're communicating well, yet their audience doesn't feel that.

And especially, there's a reason why I work at this particular age, preteens, because that's your formative time when you're crossing over into adolescence.

And it's before social media has gotten its hooks in, where you can still lay a foundation of trust.

I'm excited to talk about this and yeah, that's who I am.

We are excited as well.

It's funny.

I also taught in South Korea.

I went there as a teacher.

Yes, yeah.

I'm going to talk about that on a separate episode, but today we're going to focus on this.

So first and foremost, preteens, like you said, those are the formidable years.

When you're a child and you're trying to say to your parent, this hurts or this is how I'm feeling, because it's always about feelings.

This is how I'm feeling.

Obviously, preteens, they communicate differently or use a different language to how the...

Where does the disconnect begin and where do the parents miss the mark?

So, Gad Ramate wrote a book called Hold On To Your Child.

So holding them close, and it's very nurturing energy.

I call it feminine energy, if you will, but it's saying, I see you, you're seen, you're safe, you're secure, and you're soothed.

While you're experiencing this world, like you're here to be nurtured.

When you're moving into independence, I say masculine energy pushes you away because you're moving into your independence.

However, still, you're seen, you're safe, you're secure, and you're soothed, yet from a distance.

And this stretching is necessary.

Where the miscommunication happens, and there's miscommunication in all, remember the communication model, there'll always be noise.

The message will always change.

The miscommunication is, I need you to separate now.

And that is actually a part of the human experience because it's creating an understanding of you're separate, but you're a part of, and that's how the brain is formed.

That's how communities are formed.

We break apart and then we come back together stronger in the broken places.

But when this is your first breaking, you don't understand it as much.

Sometimes it's the parents pushing away.

Sometimes it's a kid moving away.

But there is conflict is described as a difference of wants.

The kid wants one thing, the parent wants one thing.

And when you don't understand that, that's where the breakdown happens.

Another axiom from communication, that's why I love talking to another communicator, is that there's always conflict in every relationship, but that doesn't define the relationship.

What defines it is how we deal with the conflict.

Right.

And that's what I want to help the parent to understand that breakdown, and also understand how to mend that, how to work with it.

Which then brings us to what we were saying earlier, that you think you're a great communicator, but how others experience you is more important than what you think.

Oh, I speak eloquently.

Or, I've expressed my feelings.

Or, I've asked Marcus what he thinks.

What more do they want from me?

How they experience you is the most important thing in this equation.

A lot of people miss the first point of communication.

That is understanding your audience.

And really what that is is another way we could say that in sociology is empathy.

Understanding what's relevant to them, why they're there in that communication.

There's a beautiful book by Charles Duhigg called Super Communicators, where we enter into a conversation and it's, is this person looking for social connection?

Are they looking just for information?

Understanding our audience is what a lot of people miss in their communication.

Yeah, I agree with you.

And that's actually what it is with kids and teenagers.

They miss that.

Like we always say, shout out to parents, they do the most difficult job in the world.

Is then the solution to give the preteen what they are looking for at that moment to solve the problem?

And does it solve the problem?

If you feel that this conflict you mentioned earlier is either not being resolved, you don't just seem to get each other, because parents got to go to work, they got responsibilities.

Are we going to communicate all day?

I got a job, Marcus.

If I'm a parent, yes.

How does that work?

Well, if we touch on non-violent communication, all of us have needs, and all of us need to learn how to communicate our needs, and all of us need to be responsible for our needs.

Other people aren't responsible for meeting them, but we are responsible for communicating them.

However, you have to understand, a pre-team is new to the game.

They don't know the rules of life yet.

So it's how do we support them and teach them these things, while also giving them the ability to express themselves.

Is a parent supposed to communicate all that?

Well, you can't communicate.

That's another axiom.

However, we can help them make sense of what's going on in their head.

Because when the outside doesn't match your inside, that's one definition of crazy.

And that's what our feelings are when it's just like, oh, there are these expectations or this is what's going on in.

But I'm expecting this.

This doesn't make sense.

They don't know who to look to.

That's when we need to come in or another trusted adult inside their life and help make sense of their inside world as it relates to the outside world.

I don't know if you know Lisa Nichols.

She was in The Secret.

She lives in The Bahamas.

I'm very familiar with Lisa's work.

She's one of the teachers of The Original, The Secret.

When she started her company, it was called Motivating The Masses.

She worked with me.

She said a lot of the time, here's what happened.

The parent and the teen would come there, do a consultation with her, and she will say something and it clicks when the teen is listening.

The parent would go, why is it you, the stranger?

It clicked the first time.

I've been saying the exact same thing, exact same words for the past 50.

Why does that happen?

Why does a different voice saying the exact same thing suddenly make sense when the parents have been saying the exact same thing at home every day, and it doesn't stick?

So you ask, I can tell you.

I can tell you all expected.

The reason I work with parents is to establish trust at an early age.

Everything that the parent has been saying up until then has been gospel, meaning life is black and white, and whatever your parents say from 0 to 10, it's like, oh yeah, I'm taking it in.

I'm taking it in.

When you understand their other perspectives in the world, you start to get skeptical and you're like, I'm not going to trust everything that you say.

I'm going to go look at what these other people have to say.

When you hear it from another source, especially when you have skepticism towards this source, you're going to listen to it more so.

Now, it is possible to maintain that trust as a parent.

It is possible, but when they hear it from another source and it clicks, I mean, it's not anything personal.

That's how it is in communication.

You have to trust your source.

And if you don't trust your source, there's a pretty way do you lose trust of your parents?

Where we lose trust with a lot of people is when they start to judge us.

And that comes out of psychological safety.

It is, can I be authentically me without fear of threat?

And let me say it as a metaphor.

If someone comes to your house every day and they flip over your chairs and they wrestle up your sofa and they track mud inside your house, you're not going to invite that person over anymore, right?

Now, let's say there's another person who comes by, they come with some food and they help you straighten up the place, help you make sense of it, clean it up.

It's like, oh yeah, no, I'll open up the door next time.

Now imagine if the first person comes by even when you don't want them to and they're intrusive and it's just like, you can't avoid it.

And again, like we said, my heart always goes out to parents because everybody's doing the best that they can.

I really honestly believe that.

Sometimes we come off judgmental even when we don't intend to be, right?

And when I say judgmental, it's criticizing the person who is falling short of expectations.

And in the framework that I present, the show framework, H is whole space for critical thinking.

But when kids had go-through problems, they don't know what it means to be an adult.

So they don't know what it means to make mistakes and bounce back and so on.

But they often think, what's wrong with me?

I'm falling short.

What's wrong?

How do we come in as a trusted adult in their life to say, nothing's wrong with you?

I want to hear what you are experiencing about these problems, active listening, and I want to help you solve them together.

And then you move it forward with collaborative problem-solving or autonomy supportive parenting.

That's a good question.

How do we break the trust?

It could be a myriad of ways.

But how do you build it over time and by being there for them to support them?

Let's talk about your framework because I'm very curious on how at that age, you get to help them with all the stuff that you've talked about, with trust and being able to communicate how they're feeling, expressing themselves in a healthy way.

Because throwing your toys and breaking glasses is not what we're talking about, obviously.

Let's hear more about your framework.

Tell us about it.

I actually think this framework works in all human development, but I am focusing on pre-teen.

I help the parent put their oxygen mask on first, or take care of themselves first, while they deal with their teens or help their teen regulate.

S is it starts with a strong identity.

All behavior comes from identity.

When I say it starts with a strong identity, I'm actually speaking to the virtues and values that everybody has.

Virtues come from positive psychology, VIA, virtues in action, 24-character strength set.

All faith believes, all cultures have, ancient and modern-day science, speak about these characteristics that are with everybody, and your values are what's important to you.

It could be your faith, it could be your family, it could be anything, right?

When you speak to a person's virtues and values, you're speaking to their higher self, and people move towards your expectations.

It starts with a strong identity.

When people see you, like what do they see?

And you know those certain people is just like, oh, they see something higher in me, right?

And they treat you with dignity, they treat you with that.

To us holds space for collaboration and critical thinking.

That means empathy, taking on their perspective, and then supporting them through their problems, looking for solutions.

And when those solutions fall short, it's just like, nothing's wrong with you, but let's come up with something else.

Always opening up communication.

Without being preachy, you can pass on your values, I believe.

And that comes through storytelling and other ways to talk to a preteen at this age.

It's not long conversation.

It's shorter conversation.

It's a model called brief, but they're different frameworks on how to communicate at this age.

And the last one is wonder and explore this world together.

It's project-based learning, but we're both going to do something hard for an extended period of time that is self-directed.

We chose it.

And so this comes from Angela Duckworth's book, Grit, her and her child and husband.

They both commit to doing something long-term that's effortful and they can't give up on it.

And it gives you a place to talk with your child about what it means to develop.

For you, it could be a podcast, your business or so on.

For your kid, it might be language, sport, something like that.

And the last one, this is the last part of the framework, it's unveil your potential.

It's where we celebrate, gather together to honor.

When I say it starts with a strong identity, when you live into your identity and you say that's like me, it's like I applaud you for doing something that's in alignment with your identity.

Because one thing that a kid's going through at this stage specifically is they're looking for who they are, trying to figure out who they are.

So you're reaffirming their identity again.

So that's the show up framework.

Yes.

And at the stage while trying to find who they are.

If a parent hasn't worked with you yet, so they don't have these tools, so whatever best way they know how.

The thing about pre-teens and teens, we've just become this society of, oh yeah, they're moody, they get frustrated.

That's how we have boxed them, right?

And so if you're a parent and you haven't met Marcus yet, what can you do in the meantime to put out these fires and do your best to build this trust and open up this communication between you and your pre-teen?

Oh, what can you do without meeting me?

I'll start with prayer.

But then after that, you know, there's no meaning without context.

That's one thing again from communication.

I love how you said that's what we box them.

There's this beautiful book by Ellen Galansky called The Breakthrough Years.

And the reason I'm mentioning this book is because we put them in a box of they're moody, they're giving me all this pushback, they have all this attitude.

Yet if we frame it as in to say, hey, this is why you're like that.

I understand, and I'm sharing this understanding with you.

It helps them make more sense of what's happening in their head.

And that opens up the conversation.

We hold a different conversation when it's, you're going through something right now and you need to let time in.

And I'll be here when you finish going through it.

And, hey, you're going through something right now.

This is what you're going through, why you're going through it.

And I'll support you through it.

Yeah.

It's all new for them.

It's all new for them.

One thing that she mentions in the book is, one way we describe as adults, teenagers, is immature.

And when you think about it, it's immature to what?

Immature to being an adult, right?

However, you don't describe a toddler as an immature child.

And you don't describe a child as an immature teenager.

You understand where they are developmentally, and what's expected at that age, and then you learn how to meet it.

And I will let you know, teenage years are more challenging because it's that balance of, I'm trying to give you freedom, trying to give you trust and autonomy, and I'm not sure if you're ready.

And yes, it is more effortful, I will say.

Another book is Brainstorm by Dan Siegel.

Anything from Dan Siegel is beautiful.

When you understand again what's happened to the teenage brain of, they're now parsing or paring down their brain.

During their childhood, everything was spaghetti stuck to it.

But now when they're trying to specialize, they're losing parts of their brain, where they're hyper focusing on one part.

And they're trying to make sense of this while their body's changing, while their social interactions are changing.

What can a parent do without meeting me as a consult now?

Empathy.

If you're falling short of something, it means you don't have the skills or you don't have the support.

So either look for the support where you are, or if you want to develop the skills.

I know I mentioned a lot of books, but that's where you develop your skills.

There are 14 conversations before age 14 by Michelle Eckhart.

That will teach you how to converse with this age.

Ellen Galansky's book will tell you what's going on.

Not what's going wrong, what's going on, and how to work from there.

And then Dan Siegel, The Power of Being Present also shows you how to show up.

Like, what can a parent do?

Put your oxygen mask on first to regulate yourself.

Easier said than done, but that will help you in relating to a person who's dysregulated.

I know I said a lot.

I hope there's something in there.

I like the support part especially.

Here's why.

I grew up in the Tics of Village in that era, where my mom was a stay-at-home wife, dad went to get bacon.

If I bunked school to hang out with boys during school hours, just because my mom went to town, so she won't see me, the neighbors are going to see me, and they are parenting me the same way my mom would.

So the support system is very important.

And back to Lisa Nichols as well, that sometimes the kids just need a different voice instead of hearing mom every day.

So a neighbor, another parent of a preteen, just form like a support group as well in order to help each other out.

Because I think it's really important, like I said, not just for the teen to only hear the voice of the parent, because that's where they think, ah, again, again, it sounds like a remix and you don't want to hear it anymore.

And somebody else is the exact same thing.

In the studies, it's called Aloe Parenting.

But yeah, we weren't meant to parent by ourselves.

We meant to parent in pods, in community.

That's why you have coaches, teachers, trustworthy parents.

You're absolutely right.

Absolutely.

Let's talk about your book, Inspire Life Through Word Singers.

Hey, yeah, I'm a poet.

This is something that's just more personal.

I don't necessarily promote it, but it's something for me that was written by me when I needed it and I come back to it often.

This is the first in a few series.

The others inspire life through words for our shared human experience.

But yeah, I believe our words make our world and they breathe life into us.

Absolutely.

Words of prophecy.

What you say, that's exactly how it's going to manifest.

And then you personally, you come from a multicultural family.

Like you mentioned earlier, we've both been in South Korea at one point of our lives.

How has being in a multicultural family, has it had any communication challenges?

How has that been like for you?

What lessons have you learned?

If you can share with us briefly.

Oh man.

If I could share with you briefly, I'll share with you my life.

Yeah, you know, there will always be miscommunication.

Even before there's multicultural.

And then when you come in multicultural, always remember, everybody has virtues and values, and values means what's important to them.

Different cultures have different things that are important to them.

And when you're mindful of that and you're curious of that, you can understand people and be more gracious towards them.

You can understand when you don't connect with people also.

I guess again, be gracious to people.

I like the challenge of miscommunication, because for me, that's where the puzzle is.

And I'm a patient person.

I say miscommunication, misunderstanding, because whenever there's a misunderstanding, I'm like, what is it that I'm not picking up?

What is it that I'm missing?

And I guess as a communicator, having had so many conversations, so many interactions, I feel confident in approaching that.

I can see how other people back down from it.

But for me, I'm just like, I know there's something that I'm not getting and I'll try for it.

For me, I enjoy entering spaces where I don't have the full understanding.

And again, culturally, I'm speaking about traveling and meeting people from places.

Would you say you're a naturally curious person?

So you wanting to know or understand is the reason, which also is the reason you're a communications coach, because I find that a lot of the time, that's usually the personality associated with people in communication space because you're always trying to understand that person.

You've worked in different continents and different countries including my country, South Africa, which we'll talk about on another episode.

But like you said, being in a space that you're not familiar with.

So those same principles, pre-teens are entering a space they're not familiar with.

This, my body is changing, I'm now becoming an adult.

What is this new stuff?

Do you want to form a parallel there?

Yes, go ahead.

So two points I want to touch on.

As a third culture kid, this has been my lived experience since I was a child, of being other in shared spaces.

So one aspect of third culture kids is that they are very introspective, they are very comfortable being by themselves.

It either makes or breaks them and that they think, well, who am I?

Or they think, I know who I am and I'm not like the others and I'm okay with that.

That's the first thing I want to point out.

It's not that they're lone wolves, but it's just like I'm comfortable in the skin that I am in being different.

The second thing worth pointing out is, I've done it longer than a pre-teen.

I think this is a shared aspect of life, this shared humanity.

We're all different from other people and we realize that at a young age.

When we realize that, again, think what's wrong with me.

But I've done this so many times, I know there's no greater privilege than to be who you are.

I've come into that wisdom.

A pre-teen hasn't necessarily come into that wisdom and that's what I want to share with them.

Right.

Such a brand new experience.

They don't have the wisdom, they're still very young.

There's just a lot of support that they need, especially during that period.

Marcus, do you have any last words for parents of pre-teens?

Something to take away from today's conversation?

Yes.

It's not personal.

It's not permanent.

Some people say it's a marathon, not a sprint, but it's beyond a marathon.

Also, there's a point after independence.

It's called interdependence.

But it's, I promise to take care of me to be there for you.

If you promise to take care of you to be there for me.

And that's what society ideally is working towards.

And when you have that with your preteen in your family, and you've invested in that, planted the seeds at a very young age, it's a beautiful thing.

Certainly it is.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for sharing this with us today, and especially all the resources that parents can tap into when dealing with their preteens.

Marcus Aurelius Higgs from Bahamas.

We are so privileged that you've been able to join us today.

Thank you very much.

Okay, it was my pleasure.

And before you go, please give us your website and share the title of your book again, and where people can find it.

The website is marcushiggs.com.

I hang out on LinkedIn.

That's where you'll find me.

And the book is Inspire Life Through Words of Well-Being.

Inspire Life Through Words of Well-Being.

And they can find it on Amazon, your website.

It's on Amazon, not necessarily at my website, but it's there on Amazon.

I don't promote it so much.

You'll understand why they say it.

Marcus Aurelius wrote a book called Meditations, and this was my form of Meditations, a book for me, by me, but it is published.

And if you want to have a look in depth how I use my words, feel free to look.

Right.

Speaking of meditation, do you ever suggest it for preteens?

I suggest it for everybody.

And the reason I say for everybody is because, for me, what meditation means, it is being introspective, to understand what's happening in this space.

Oftentimes, you see our mind going.

It's a point to be still, to observe.

And that's where you learn non-judgment approach to life.

Yeah.

I encourage it for everybody.

Absolutely.

Thank you so much.

marcushiggs.com.

And the book, it's inspired life through words of well-being.

Thank you for being here today.

I knew we were going to have a wonderful time, and this has really been a wonderful conversation.

I enjoyed it immensely.

Thank you, Marcus.

Excellent stuff.

Thank you for joining us on the Speaking and Communicating Podcast once again.

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