Speaking and Communicating Podcast

This podcast focuses on improving your communication skills both professionally and personally

>> Roberta Ndlela: Welcome back to the speaking and communicating podcast. I am, um, your host, Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. Now, in this exciting month of May, we have an amazing lineup of guests for you. On Mondays, our special guests will be helping us with our inner communication. On Wednesdays, we have public speaking experts helping us with becoming better public speakers. And on Fridays, our guests will be showing us how to reach global audiences. So stay tuned. Share these episodes with those who will benefit from them and log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Now let's get communicating.

Lisa Nicole Wilkerson talks to us about Broadway confidence and communication skills

>> Roberta Ndlela And speaking of, uh, leadership skills and communication skills, my guest today, Lisa Nicole Wilkerson, a Broadway alumni and NYU Stern School of Business alumni. This is such an incredible lady. She is here to talk to us about Broadway confidence, communication skills, and also how she helps leaders improve their verbal and nonverbal skills to make excellent presentations. And before I go any further, please help me welcome her to the show. Hi, Lisa.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Oh.

>> Roberta Ndlela: For the benefits of our listeners, that's a Zulu way of saying hello. Lisa was in my country, South Africa, so she's been as well. I love it. So bona, Lisa. Yeah. Pila unja ni.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Oh, my goodness.

>> Roberta Ndlela: That's. Hello. How are you? I'm fine. And how are you in Zulu? I love it. But because our listeners are global and mostly speaking English, you'll switch back.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: We'll go back to English. No problem.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Right? Right. So excited. Welcome to the show.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Thank you so much for having me. Uh, I also felt, given we were talking about communication skills, I had to greet you in your native tongue. So thank you for indulging me. I know my accent probably wasn't great, but I just.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Perfect. And here's the thing. I always say, the thing about traveling, because you don't hear your native language often. When you hear it, it's mind blowing. It's the most best moment ever. So appreciate that.

I am the only Broadway theater awarded communication strategy and presentation skills coach

So please give us a bit of your background.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Yes. So, as you mentioned, uh, I am a Broadway veteran. Very excited about that. When it comes to coaching, I utilize the Broadway experience that I have. Um, I am the only Broadway theater awarded communication strategy and presentation skills coach that I know of. And there are several people in the space who do incorporate theater into their work. But I get excited to be able to utilize my full, extensive background in the storytelling business. So I started off in corporate America, working in public relations, transitioned into theater and acting, dance, did a few Broadway shows, national tours. I actually had the privilege of playing Nala in the Lion King on Broadway as well as the tour, and also have done some extensive work in voiceovers and have then transitioned into being an adjunct professor at NYU Stern School of business, where I do teach business communication to part time mbas. And I also am a coach in the executive education program. So it's been really fun. I love the work. I love everything about communication skills, communication strategies, and whatever I can do to help emerging and established business leaders with their communication challenges. I'm, um, always there to help. It's something that's very passionate about that.

>> Roberta Ndlela: We are certainly glad that, uh, you hear, because that's what I loosened and tuned into for specifically communication skills.

When you become a Broadway actor, is there certain acting school you go to

Now, here's my question. First of all, your list of credentials. When you become a Broadway actor, when you get chosen or you audition, is there certain acting school you go to, or you can either come from juilliard or a smaller acting school somewhere else. As long as you blow them away, that's how you get the part.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Indeed. So the beautiful thing about acting, acting for a career, not necessarily just the craft of acting, is that you can incorporate everything about your life, all of life experiences. So whereas some people take the route of going to conservatories, beautiful, wonderful schools, like you mentioned, juilliard, there are others of us, like myself. I actually went to Northwestern University undergrad and was a journalism major. So I came through the medill school of Journalism. I then transitioned into theater, though I had done theater and dance growing up, but I was able to take classes at a high level once I discovered the type of acting I wanted to do. The type meaning, are we doing comedy? Are we doing drama? Like, there are different categories of acting that you can study and then also discovered what medium that I wanted to step into. So I primarily wanted to do live theater, which is. And ultimately, I had the opportunity to do Broadway a few times and national tours. So there's a very specific way that you'll study acting on stage versus acting on film versus acting on tv. They're all different types of acting techniques that you would use to express the characters in those different ways, any number of ways that you can get into the business.

>> Roberta Ndlela Right. And then when you're in acting school, what do they say? Just in general, a summarized version of, here's what you should incorporate in order for the audience to connect with your performance.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Very, very good question. So there are classes called scene study, and there's also character development. So, in character development, you are literally creating a complete lifetime, like a life story, for your character. So, say, for example, you have a scene. Maybe you're in a show for one scene, and the character has one task, and that task could be to convince his mother that he should go to a trade school and not to a four year university. And that's the only scene that that person's in. In order for that character to be believable, the person is doing more than just saying the lines. The person who is the actor has to create an entire life that that character, uh, lives currently and has lived to make the lines come alive, to make the character come alive, to make the character believable. So largely with acting, it's an inside out process. So you create, where is the person from? What were his parents names? Um, what does he like to do? What does he not like to do? You know, does he have a favorite color? Does he have a favorite hobby? I mean, these things seem mundane, but when you think about who you are as a human, as an individual who exists on the planet, we are fully realized people, and so our characters should be as fully realized as possible. And so those are the kind of characters that other people relate to, because, again, even when I'm coaching, I always say, you're a human being in a room with other human beings. And human beings know when human beings are being authentic and when they're not. So the biggest thing is really doing your character study, which involves backstory. And then once you know who the character is, it better informs how the character will express that scene. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

>> Roberta Ndlela: It makes perfect sense. Cause there's so many that's incorporated in the character. So they're going to show up a certain way with all that background. Just like you say, us humans, we show up a certain way because of our entire background, of our entire lives. And then after you've acted, the show wraps up. How do you, as you guys, as Broadway actors, know that we did it, we killed this, or it wasn't so great? How do you know from. From the audience's reaction that they really got it?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: That's, uh, a great question. So the first thing is, as actors, we have to know for ourselves when we've missed the mark and when we've made the mark. So if I understand who my character is, what my character's objective is in that scene or the full play, like, what am I going after? What am I trying to accomplish in that scene? Once I know what I'm trying to accomplish, then I develop tactics to try to accomplish that objective. If I have done it effectively, I will feel it internally, and I'll also understand the engagement from the audience. I'll get some kind of reverberation coming back from the audience. I always call it an energetic exchange. Even with communication in business presentations, it's an energetic exchange. So even though it seems as though from the stage, I'm projecting in one direction, we're really having a conversation. It's really a two way stream of communication. So when I get back, the laughter. Oh, I know my joke landed. When I get back, the gasp.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Ah.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Uh. They really did believe that cliffhanger. They really did believe that that situation that happened that was, you know, threatening or very tense for some reason, there are guttural reactions that your audience members will have based on what you are doing. And so then that helps you understand where you are in terms of connecting with them. But ultimately, you have to know for yourself what benchmarks that you need to make to be able to know that you have expressed the character appropriately. Because sometimes what we have to remember is that every audience member is different. So how one audience member may enjoy a presentation, another audience member may enjoy it in a different way. So one person may sit quietly, nod ahead every once in a while with a very blank face. Another person may be more animated, but those two people are equally enjoying the presentation. So you can't always get too caught up in what your audience is giving back to you in response, because that can throw you off, because you'll think, well, the person who's sitting there with a more of a blank face, who may not a couple of times every now and again, maybe that person doesn't like me, when in fact, they do. And I'll give one example. There was a time when I. So I was in Porgy and Bess on Broadway. We won the Tony, which is a really exciting experience. And most of the time, we had pretty vibrant crowd. Our audiences were really going along with us because, you know, Porgy and Bess is such an american favorite. And there was this one night where it was pretty silent in the audience. And collectively, as a cast, we weren't sure if we were hitting the mark. And then once the curtain went down, the curtain went back up for our bows, standing ovation, roaring, uh, applause. And so, again, you just never know sometimes, right?

>> Roberta Ndlela: So as long as, based on what you said earlier, just do your best. Just know that you are hitting the mark as best as you can, and know that most m of it is landing.

How did you transition from acting on Broadway to becoming a communications coach

So now let's translate those teachings, experiences, lessons into the public speaking arena. Uh, first of all, how did you then transition from, I'm, um, acting on Broadway, to I now am a communications coach?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Well, first, I actually went into public speaking prior to coaching because I have so many stories that I felt were interesting to tell, and people were expressing to me that I should tell my story. So I had opportunities to actually speak at different arts organizations, that there was a dance organization in Jersey that had a graduating class of dancers, and so I had the opportunity to motivate them as they moved on to their next elevation in life or their next chapter in life, I should say. I had the opportunity to go to Orlando and be a guest speaker there at a learning conference. It was a conference all about learning. It's really fascinating. But all that to say, I realized that one of the things I enjoy doing, and I'm really good at, is teaching. So I've taught many, many, many dance classes. I've taught many acting classes. And because the through line, for me, from my education in northwestern as a journalist going into corporate America and public relations going into theater, the through line is storytelling and communication skills. So I thought maybe I could parlay this into coaching people, because I really have a unique way of integrating all these different parts of the storytelling industry. And one thing led to another. An opportunity came where I had a, uh, chance to coach mid level executives at an organization called Council for Urban Professionals and went over really well. They asked me to come back the next year, and I thought, I think I really like doing this. I really like coaching this particular cohort and this particular style of coaching. And so I just never stopped. And that was probably around, yeah, 2017. It has really advanced to where I'm actually in academia now, which I hadn't planned to do in this capacity, and it's been great. I love it.

What do you think makes stories so powerful when presenting

>> Roberta Ndlela: What do you think makes stories so powerful when presenting?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: More than anything, the thing that makes stories more powerful is when people can relate to what is being conveyed, but I think they can relate when what's being conveyed is crafted for them. Because one of the things, when it comes to audience engagement, is you have to know who you're talking to so that you can craft a message that's appropriate for that audience. And when an audience feels as though you're speaking to them, nine times out of ten, they're going to be with you. They may or may not agree with what you're saying, but they'll be engaged at stern one of the things we do is really, we delve deeply into a strategy that helps our students to understand the importance of crafting a message that's specifically for your audience. And the audience could be a person who you're pitching to over a dinner meeting. It could be a presentation in a boardroom. It could be a TEd talk.

First and foremost, you have to know what you're doing

>> Roberta Ndlela: Can I ask one question? Lisa? Sorry to interrupt you. We hear that a lot, especially because you teach MBA students. Can I ask you for one specific example? Let's say you work for Pepsi, Coca Cola. Whatever it is you say to me at work, I must learn to tell stories when presenting. What does that look like? Okay, I got my 50 slides. What does that mean exactly? What stories do I tell?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: So what that means exactly is, first and foremost, you have to know what you're doing. What is it that you are trying to convey, and what we call that is intent. The intent is your objective. What do you want the audience to do, think, or say as a result of listening to your message? And once you know what that intent is, you identify what the intent is. Then you study, who is this audience so similar to? When you ask me the question about your own character, how do you express a character effectively? You ask those same questions about your audience. What do they like? What do they not like? What do they know already? Because a lot of times with audiences, please don't tell them what they already know, because that's a surefire way to have someone check out what do they need to know and how do they like to be communicated to? Those are like the five basic questions. And then you can go much deeper, especially if you're in advertising and sales. Like, you really have to go much deeper into the psychology of your audience members. Once you know that, then you will craft a message that is congruent with that audience. You know, I always say you don't speak to a five year old the same way you speak to a 15 year old, the same way you speak to a 25 year old. Those are different demographics. And so once you know your intent, you have a very clear objective and you express that. What do you want them to do, think or say? As a result of hearing your message, you craft a message that is very specific to that audience. It is a lot easier to then connect to them and have them connect to you because they feel like you are seeing, hearing and validating them. There's somewhat of a psychology element to this. People like to be seen, heard and validated. And if you've done that, you've done your job and then you can measure if the message has landed, if they've actually done, thought or said what you've asked them to do.

One thing you can do is have an understanding of what type of persuasion tactic needs

>> Roberta Ndlela: Okay, so, like, you train leaders, and you say you help them make excellent presentations or compelling presentations. If they incorporate a story into the presentation and they need to present to the board because they must show how the numbers have grown or declined or whatever it is, do they tell the story of the numbers to the board?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Oh, that's a very good question. A lot of times when you're dealing with numbers, it is a lot more compelling to personify, and also, you want to consider what your persuasion tactics are. So, again, it still goes back to who the audience is, if it's, um, a presentation to your finance team, and you have to show if your numbers are going up or going down based on a certain type of product or service that the company is offering, one thing you can do is have an understanding of what type of persuasion tactic does this audience need. How does that audience typically talk and speak to them at their level? Speak to them how they would speak. So, for example, if this is an audience that needs to have this more of a straightforward message, then you don't want to get too deep into, I don't want to call it fluffier things, but more emotional types of elements. Adding more emotional types of elements to your presentation, you want to cut to the chase. You want to make sure that you're giving the information that is more straightforward, that they can understand, and that they can absorb to be able to then make decisions based on your presentation. However, you may have other leaders who will tap more into a personal story, something that they can connect to as a human being, because they can understand an experience they had in their lives prior to that. So one example is, when I start a class or a workshop, uh, I'll often bring in objects, and I'll say to people, pick an object that seems to resonate with you, and then just tell a one to two minute story about this object. And then I'll ask the audience what stories resonated with you. And depending on who they are and how they best listened to stories, some people will say, the personalized messages resonated. Other people will say, I was excited when they got to the punchline. So, again, it really does go back to understanding who your audience is and incorporating those types of persuasion tactics for them to tap into what you're saying, so that they will then connect and continue to engage. And if they don't understand, then, of course, if there's a q and a. They can ask questions, but really, it always goes back to knowing who you're talking to and invalidating who that person is, who that group of people are.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Right.

One of the biggest challenges for leaders is when their presentation begins

And is there anything else that when you coach leaders, that you find some of their biggest challenges and how do you help them with that?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Yes. One of the biggest challenges and also ways that I incorporate the theater aspect is I'll always ask, when does your presentation begin? And it often throws people off, because typically a person thinks of their presentation beginning on a time clock level. My presentation begins when we set this meeting, and then I say, no. Your presentation begins at something called the moment before. And this is something we do in theater. There has to be something to propel you into the space, propel you into the leadership Persona that you have to take on to be able to effectively give your message. So if you put yourself in that leadership Persona space prior to entering the presentation space, it's much easier for your audience to engage with you because they see it. There's an aura. You don't just walk, and you're not just speaking a presentation. You are presenting a presentation broadcasting everything you're saying with everything you're doing, everything you're not doing, and also the energy that you have when you walk in. Do you have a conversational face, facial expression? Are you using conversational tone? Are you speaking quickly? Are you speaking slowly? These things matter. And so if you can set yourself, prior to you walking into or standing up from your chair, your presentation, who you are as a leader in that space, in that moment, then it makes the presentation flow much easier.

Breathing slows down your sympathetic nervous system during presentations

The other thing that we talk about is breathing, I think, because we all breathe all the time, because if we didn't breathe, we wouldn't be alive. We discount the power of breath. Breathing slows down your sympathetic nervous system. It helps you to stay out of fight, flight, or freeze. It helps you to think, it helps you to focus, and it also helps you to enjoy the process more because you're actually breathing. So I often will give breathing exercises with our leaders, and it's interesting, when I have a group of people, how you can feel a collective relaxation across the room when we do, ah, just one or two breathing exercises, because I think we're in such a fast paced world, and oftentimes, I mean, honestly, with some of these presentations, you may be asked to present the next day or in a couple of days, you need to give a presentation to a certain group of people at the office. So breathing is really important because it's something you can do anywhere at any point. And if you can do it prior to stepping into the space and also allow yourself to breathe while you're in your presentation, it makes everything go much more smoothly. It allows you to be present while you're presenting as opposed to having an out of body experience and then all of a sudden having stage fright symptoms. And it allows your audience to also stay calm because you're calm, because your audience is going to take cues from you. If you're calm and you're presenting in a way that's grounded and pleasant, they will take that in as well.

Every part of your presentation should coincide with every other part

>> Roberta Ndlela: And speaking of presentations, I know Elia made a joke about 50 slides. Do you think audiences, no matter where they are, incorporate? Are people looking forward to 50 slides because Lisa's presenting and you're going to prepare 50 slides?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: That's a good question. Honestly, it's not necessarily what you do, it's how you do it. If your slides tell a story, because your slides are also a tool to tell your story. If your slides are pleasant to look at, if your slides are not competing with you, because a lot of times what happens is the slide will compete with the presenter. It's either too much information, the font is too big, it's too small, the color scheme is off. Like, there's all these different ways in which you can look at a slide and either connect with it or not connect with it. So it's really how you do it. So you can have 50 slides as long as you've practiced, and you know how to make each of those slides flow very smoothly while you're speaking, then I think it's fine. But if it's 50 slides for the sake of having 50 slides, then I'm sure you could edit that down to maybe half of that and have a more compelling presentation. In that way, you don't want to kill people with your slides and then they walk away, not having taken in the message that you've been trying to convey.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yeah, because I had a guest before who joked around and said, I don't think anybody dreams about, oh, Liza's going to make a presentation. I can't wait to see the 50 slides. Like you said, they compete with the speaker and we can came there for the speaker. They're just an accessory. You know what I mean?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so that's why, again, every part of your presentation matters and every part of the presentation should coincide with every other part. So just like your slides should complement and not compete how you're dressed, how you energize yourself. The subject matter congruent with how you're presenting the subject matter. All of these things matter, and each of those elements of your presentation really needs to be thought about so that when you present it feels seamless. That's another reason why I bring up Broadway a lot. Because Broadway is literally the quintessential place for storytelling. It's not just theater, it's theater in excellence. Because every single aspect of the storytelling process is completely, thoroughly thought through. And that's how we need to also approach our presentations to be as effective as possible.

Improving as a presenter is completely possible because it's a skill

>> Roberta Ndlela Any last words of wisdom for a professional leader entrepreneur who thinks, I'm, um, not good at storytelling? I just know how to tell people what I do and what I'm good at.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: I would say this number one, improving as a presenter is completely possible because it's a skill. These are not talents where someone's just born into being a perfect presenter. These are skills that are honed over time. So if you're open to learning new skills and honing the skills that you already have, you can definitely become a better presenter. That's the first thing. The other thing is to remember to have fun with this. Remember that you're a human being in a room with other human beings. And your human beings you're in a room with typically want to see you succeed. Most audiences really want for the presenter to be good because they don't want to feel like they've wasted their time while they're there. So understand that most of the time people are actually rooting for you. So that also helps us understand that if I know that I'm in a room where people want me to succeed can may help me feel like I have the capability of doing it. One thing I always say is that everything you need, you already have and everything you have is good enough. So if we remember that what we come to the table with is good enough and that good enough can also be built up over time, we can build these skills, then sky's the limit, honestly.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Mhm.

Lisa Nicole Wilkerson is the Broadway actress confidence and communications coach

And is there a strategy to start practicing storytelling on a daily basis?

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Oh my goodness. Well, I think it depends on what you want to work on. There's so many different elements to storytelling and presentations that I would say depending on what your biggest need is, uh, pick one thing, work on that until you then have more of a mastery of that thing and then move on to the next. So, for example, if someone has a challenge with eye contact when you are at work, practice making better eye contact with your colleagues when you're not in a presentation or when you want to practice a presentation, maybe have a friend, have a spouse, have your son or daughter do a faux presentation with someone at home and work on actually looking people in the eye, because a lot of times people get afraid of that, especially in today's day and age, where we're used to just being behind screens and texting everything. It's hard sometimes for people to be in a room with other people and actually look at them in the eye. Um, if you want to work on your pacing, there's so many different elements. I would say work on one thing at a time, hone that, and then add that to the arsenal. The last thing I'll say is this. What I always tell people that I coach and teach is that you didn't get to this point by doing everything badly. What I like to do is identify the areas where you are strong, because obviously you've done some great things to get to this point in your life. The areas where you're strong, we enhance them. We either leave them alone, maintain them, or we enhance them. And then the areas that are less effective, we then turn those around, add some, um, tools and tactics to help you improve those areas so that you're just moving up, as opposed to completely breaking down everything you've done, which can cause confusion, and it's counterproductive. I want to make sure that people are empowered to know that they've done great things to get to where they are and that they can do other things to help enhance where they are.

>> Roberta Ndlela: And also that stories don't have to be something complicated. They can just take note of their daily experiences and know that they can make stories out of that. Thank you so much. Lisa. Uh, the Broadway actress confidence and communications coach who coaches lead us to make excellent presentations. Please give us your social media or website details before you go so we know where to reach you.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Yes, absolutely. You can always find me on linked and Lisa Nicole Wilkerson, and also on YouTube at Broadway confidence and the numeral one. So that's Broadway confidence, the numeral one. I have videos of, uh, that help coach you on different aspects of communication and presentation skills that I hope you find helpful.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Lisa Nicole Wilkerson, the NYU Stern School of Business adjunct professor, Broadway veteran. Thank you so much for being here today. It's always a pleasure to have a chat with you.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Oh, the same. Thank you so much for having me. Roberta, your podcast is amazing, and I'm so grateful that you took the time to allow me to come on.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Thank you so much, and thanks for the kind words. My absolute pleasure. As you can see, you're a perfect fit for the show, and I'm sure our listeners are going to really enjoy your insights. Thank you, Lisa.

>> Lisa Nicole Wilkerson: Uh, certainly hope so. Take care.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Thank you for joining us on the speaking on communicating podcast. Once again, please log on to Apple and Spotify. Leave us a rating and a review and what you'd like for us to discuss on the show that will be of benefit to you. We encourage you to continue to get communicating and let us know how communication skills continue to improve your life professionally and personally. And stay tuned for more episodes to come