Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Speaking and communicating podcast focuses on improving your communication skills

>> Dave Jackson: When Muhammad Ali died, when I was growing up with Nixon was president and Ali was champ, and I. So when he died, I was really bummed. He was one of my heroes. So I did an episode because I still wanted to talk about podcasts. I wanted to talk about Muhammad Ali. And I had a few people reply to me that were like, hey, he was my champ, too, buddy, because it really resonated with them.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Welcome back to the speaking and communicating podcast. I am your host, Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. Now, in this exciting month of May, we have an amazing lineup of guests for you. On Mondays, our special guests will be helping us with our inner communication. On Wednesdays, we have public speaking experts helping us with becoming better public speakers. And on Fridays, our guests will be showing us how to reach global, uh, audiences. So stay tuned, share these episodes with those who will benefit from them, and log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Now let's get communicating.

Dave Jackson has been podcasting since 19 years and has over 30 shows

>> Roberta Ndlela: Now, let's get communicating with a literal podcast maven who's been podcasting since 19 years. This year, he has done over 30 different shows. Wow. He was inducted into the podcasting hall of Fame in 2018. Dave Jackson has over 4 million downloads from his shows. He runs the school of podcasting that will teach you everything you need to know. And before I go any further, please welcome him to the show. Dave, welcome.

>> Dave Jackson: Um, Roberta, thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here.

>> Roberta Ndlela: We are really thankful to have someone of your caliber on the show, because there is so much that I'm sure that you're going to teach us.

>> Dave Jackson: I hope so.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Certainly, yes.

Dave Jackson has been podcasting since 2005 and runs the school of podcasting

But before we get into the work part, please introduce yourself.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, I'm, um, Dave Jackson. As we mentioned, I've been podcasting since 2005, and that's when I launched the school of podcasting. And along the way, podcasting has led me into a couple different jobs and opportunities. In fact, I just celebrated eight years at Libsyn, which is one of the oldest podcast hosting companies, and I'm the head of their podcast education there. So that's the day job and my health benefits. Then I do the school of podcasting as a super serious side hustle. And, uh, I've been helping people understand technology for decades. It sounds weird to say. I used to teach people how to send email, but, you know, gray hair. So I've been around a while. In fact, right now with chat GPT, I'm getting the same reaction as when I used to teach people how to send email, because I remember you would pair them up and you'd have them send an email. And I remember the one guy's like, dude, I just hit send and it's in his inbox. Like it's magic. How did that happen, you know? And so now I'm seeing that same kind of reaction with, uh, chat GPT. My story kind of quickly is I had been teaching in the corporate world, and I got laid off, and I went to get another teaching job, and my actual degree was in electronic engineering. I kind of just fell into training, and so I had to go back to school to get that degree. That said, yes, I know what I'm doing when I teach. And so I needed kind of a part time job to keep me in my phone and insurance and food and a couple other things. And so that's when I launched the School of podcasting, which is funny, because what I was doing was trying to make money quickly, which is the last thing you want to do when you start a podcast. It's not about not making money. I wrote a book about that. It's making money quickly when you have no audience. And that's exactly what I was doing, which is why I was also designing websites, playing at a band, giving guitar lessons, anything I could do to make money back then. But it got me through school, and I was in the corporate world again, teaching a lot of Microsoft office and Quickbooks and time management and all that stuff. And then, uh, when that again kind of fell through, it was like, I'd like to get a job in podcasting. So I knew the folks at Libsyn and called them up, and I said, are you guys looking for anybody? And been there eight years now, so, been very lucky.

>> Roberta Ndlela: So you what we call a hustler, kind of. You do literally everything.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, I didn't know it at the time, but I grew up poor. And so I remember this is before there were vending machines in schools. And so I would go to the local corner market and buy packs of gum and then sell them by the stick to my friends just to earn money, you know. So I was always, you know, I was the little kid on the corner with the lemonade stand. So I've always been just something like, okay, well, I want something. And my dad always taught me, you know, work hard and you can earn some money at that. So I was always, you know, washing cars or whatever it took to earn a little extra allowance. That is something that's kind of just, you know, if you want it, you got to get it yourself. So I never kind of relied on my parents, you know, if they couldn't do it, they couldn't do it, that's fine. And I would just find another way.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Entrepreneurial spirit indeed.

Back then, how did you even know there was something called podcasting

So when you were doing corporate training, first of all, back then, how did you even know there was something called podcasting?

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, I mean, for most of that, there wasn't. This was back in the early, late nineties, two thousands. But I had been teaching websites and things like that. So I'd started a website for musicians because that's another one of my hobbies. And I knew this guy, and he'd started another website for musicians, and he had gone to this big marketing event, and he said, uh, and again, this kind of dates me, but I kind of missed the whole MySpace thing back then. And he said, you know how you missed MySpace? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, don't rub it in. He's like, I know the next big thing. And I go, what? And he said, podcasting. And I googled it, and there was one and a half pages. And I go, wait, how do you spell this? And he's like, it's just, you know, pod casting, the way it spells. Like, dude, there's only like a page and a half on this. He's like, yeah, it's brand new. And so at the time, they were saying podcasting was going to be huge and membership sites were going to be huge. And I was like, well, let's see what happens if we put those two things together. And, uh, that's how the school of podcasting was born. But the big thing that really pushed me over the edge is I took what was a newsletter for musicians and just turned it into a podcast. And within about two weeks, I had a voicemail from a guy in Nuremberg, Germany, and I'm in nowhere, Ohio in the States, and this guy's on the other side of the planet. I couldn't imagine that. A, he even found my show, and then, b, he liked it enough to send me a voicemail. And I just went, oh, I see what's going on here now. And I just, I grabbed my flag and claimed podcasting in the name of Dave. I was like, this is my jam. Because back, uh, then, you kind of had to be nerdy. And that's kind of my nerd side. I got to help people. And then there really are no rules, there are best practices. But you can be as creative as you want. So it scratched every itch I had.

>> Roberta Ndlela: So it made you realize you can connect with anyone across the world, which MySpace was kind of doing at the time.

>> Dave Jackson: The other thing was, I'm doing this show for musicians, so I'm reaching out to people. I grew up listening to all these old eighties bands, and at that point it was, you know, the late nineties. So they were grunge had kind of killed their career. But I saw where, like, the drummer of Ozzy Osborn had put out some m sort of drum like course, online. And I have no business talking to this guy. He's played with everybody. And I reached out and I said, would you like to come on my podcast? And of course, back then they all said, what's a podcast? And I'm like, it's kind of like an Internet radio show. And they're like, okay. And so I ended up talking to all sorts of people that I grew up listening to, and I couldn't believe it, that they'd be like, you want to come on my show? And they're like, okay. But the other thing was, I did find the best time to get a guest that you can't get is wait till they have something to promote. And that's when I was like, ah, uh. They can always find the time when they've got a way to make money.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Because at some point they're going to feel, okay, this is for my benefit. If I'm on Dave's show, people, his listeners that I couldn't reach otherwise, will be able to know about my new song, whatever it is.

>> Dave Jackson: In the case. That guy's name was Carmine and Peace. He's teaching drummers, so I have drummers in my audience, so it made sense for him to take, uh, the time.

You said that music was your passion, and that's why you created a podcast

>> Roberta Ndlela: You said that music was your passion, and that's why you sort of created a show around this music, newsletters, if anybody's listening, because a lot of people always ask, how do I decide if I launch a podcast, what it's going to be about, and what am I going to talk about?

>> Dave Jackson: For me, when I first started, every hobby I had had a podcast. So I had something about music. I had something about building websites. Anything I did, I just, because I love to talk about it. And I remember when I was married, I went to my wife's Christmas party, and some guy walked up and said, oh, you're the podcast guy. And she just rolled her eyes and she looked at me and said, I'll see you in 20 minutes, because she knew that guy had pulled my string, and I was just going to talk and talk and talk about podcasting. So I always say that's one thing. If you have a lot of passion about it, about any subject, that's a good place to start. Something you would talk about for free because you just love it. The three things you have to figure out is, why am I doing this? Because if you don't get your why, you're going to end up burned out. So, for me, I started off. I wanted to earn money, and that didn't really work, and it kind of burned me out a little bit. But I started to. To, um, learn about marketing and all sorts of other things, and it kind of became this project. So you have to know your why, then you have to know your who, and that has to be really detailed. Let's say I'm going to do a show that's geared for widows, right? Well, yes, you've cut out a bunch of people, but there's a big difference between Karen, who was 37 and lost her husband at 42 in a car wreck, and Mildred, who lost Harold at the age of 104, because, well, natural causes. When you can really figure out who your audience is or who you want to attract, then it makes it easier to figure out, okay, what can I talk about that's going to hold their attention while actually moving them towards my why? And that why could be I want to be seen as an expert. I have, uh, a friend of mine right now at the school of podcasting that he's trying to get speaking gigs. And I was like, this is a great way to do that, because every episode is kind of a nice little showcase that you can put together a subject and talk about it in an intelligent, entertaining way. There's that. A lot of people like to use it for their business because it's a great way to build a connection with your audience. Some people just are creative. They just want. It's my art, man. I want to put it out there, and I'm like, it's, you know. And then some people just want to be heard. It's a joke, but it's not a joke. Sometimes it's the best, you know, dollar 15 therapy you can get, because you just want to put your voice out into the world. So there's all sorts of reasons as to why you're doing this. You just need to know what it is so that you can gear your content so that it entertains the audience you're trying to attract, as well as kind of scratches your itch. You know, once you get the ball rolling, it's just a matter of talking with the people who do show up and go, okay, what else do you want to talk about? What do you want to hear and go from, um, there? It takes a little while. I mean, if you're an author, you have rough drafts. If you're an actor, you have dress rehearsals. If you're an athlete, you have preseason. And so I always say, a lot of people will fight their way through that first recording and then put it out in the world. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second. Like, when I was a guitar player and I learned the c chord, I didn't run out in the street and start asking people to give me money to play the c chord. Might get some feedback on that, because parts of that are going to be really good, and there may be some parts that maybe need a little bit of, uh, refinement. A little bit. And I always talk about, Ron Howard is this really famous movie director. He's won all sorts of awards, and he did a movie about the Beatles. So, you know, there's a built in audience right there. And he still did a screening where he sat in the back and watched because he knows when people are supposed to laugh and when they're supposed to gasp or cry or whatever. But if he's not getting the reaction that he wanted at the time he wanted, he knows. Wait, we need to go back and edit this. And I always say, so when you first start out, and really, when you keep going every now and then, just find some people, not name mom. Cause you know your mom's gonna tell you it was great.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Of course, everybody's special to mom, so.

>> Dave Jackson: Find some people that'll tell you, hey, this part was really good, but you lost me when you went into this thing and then figure out if you need to tweak it or not.

>> Roberta Ndlela: I think that's the same strategy that comedians use. They will try a joke the first time at an open mic somewhere local, and then they realize, okay, that's not funny. We didn't get the reaction. Let's go back to the drawing board and edit the joke so that the next time we try it again, we'll see how people react. Yes.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah. When you're watching Chris Rock or Seinfeld or Kevin Hart or whoever, and they're doing these big, giant concerts in a big stadium or an arena, that's not the first time they're doing that material. That's material that's been honed for quite a while.

Daniel Lewis: Podcasting is a great way to meet thousands of people

>> Roberta Ndlela: Another question is, because you said, it's somebody who wants to express their thoughts, their, uh, passions. What if someone is thinking, I'm an introvert, I'm afraid to speak. Does that mean I could never be a podcaster?

>> Dave Jackson: Oh, the beautiful thing about podcasting, it's a great way to meet thousands of people without meeting thousands of people. Like, you could actually record. Like, right now, I'm in a spare bedroom that I've kind of turned into a little studio. And if you want to do a solo show, you don't always have to do interview shows. You could just do your own show and talk about whatever you want to talk about. And then the only way people can contact you is, however, you've given them an avenue, whether that's email or voicemail or whatever they want to do. And at that point, if you never leave the house, you can meet all sorts of people online. Now. You always get a better connection. I always say, if you can tell me the eye color of your audience, you will have a much better engaged audience, because we're just connecting on, um, more levels. But it's one of those things that I always tell people we all have. I shouldn't say all, but, like, 70% of people have imposter syndrome, where you're thinking that, well, nobody would listen to me. And there are people like Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, uh, Sir Brian May, the guitar player of the band queen, that all are like, ah, we're just frauds. My favorite is Garth Brooks. There's some sort of documentary on Netflix, and Garth Brooks, you know, mister country guy, is in the heart of New York City, not exactly known for its country music, and he's going to play Central park, and he has locked himself in a hotel with all the blinds drawn because he's just convinced himself that nobody wants to hear country in New York City. And so, finally, a tour guy comes up to him and says, uh, garth, he goes, nobody's out there, right? He goes, no, Garth, there's 850,000 people out there. And he said, wait, what? And he goes, you're telling me that there are 850,000 people out there to hear me perform? And he goes, no, Garth, I'm telling you there were 850,000 people 20 minutes ago. And so by the time he actually took the stage, he was really close. He might even been a little over 1 million people. But Garth Brooks was convinced that nobody would want to hear him. Just, I always talk to that one person because people think about, I'm starting a podcast, and all these people are going to listen. I'm like, not when you first start off. That takes a while to build that audience. You know, a lot of youtubers are start off and they're like, hey, guys, look, you do you. But for me, I'm always like, thank you so much for tuning in. I'm so glad you're here. I talk to one person when I record my podcast so that they all.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Feel like you are talking to them individually. Yes.

>> Dave Jackson: If I'm lucky enough to meet somebody at a conference or someplace where I'm speaking, I've had people come up and say, I kind of feel like you're talking to me. And I just look at them and go, because I am.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yeah. That is one thing that us podcasters need to continue to master. I'm sure Garth Brooks must have thought, did they fly in all these people from Tennessee?

>> Dave Jackson: Be a lot of planes, right?

>> Roberta Ndlela: But also, when you started, there were not as many podcasts, obviously, as we have now. So now the challenge is more what will distinguish me from the other hundreds of millions podcasts that are out there?

>> Dave Jackson: Sometimes what makes you different is just the fact that it's you. You know, we all have had whatever shaped our lives, our parents, our, uh, situations, the environment, whatever. So we all have our own little different perspective. So that's always going to be something different. One of my friends, Daniel J. Lewis, does a show called the Audacity to podcast, and Daniel, just the way he is, is so detail oriented, like, he goes way deep into the weeds. And that's fine. That's exactly what Dan. And if I want details, I'm going to Daniel my style. Even when I was teaching, I've always tried to call it kind of edutainment. I want to educate you, but I want to have fun while we're doing it. And not that Daniel isn't fun, but he's just the facts kind of guy. And it's funny because we have cross promoted each other, and he's had people say, you know, I tried to listen to that Dave guy. He's a little too goofy for me. And then I've had other people go, man, that Daniel guy is dry as old toast. But some people like him. It depends. And likewise, some of his audience likes me.

Just being yourself can set you apart from everybody else in podcasting

So just being yourself, I have a member of the school of podcasting right now. He's an accountant. And so, you know, how many different ways can you count numbers and talk about taxes and things like that? He started doing themes on his show, his Sunday theme was a faith based thing. He's a Christian. And I said, oh, so you're a Christian? He's like, yeah. I go, have you ever thought of, like, really leaning into that? And I said, because that could be something that sets you apart. Everybody else is talking about how to save money and don't spend as much and make more money. But if you throw in your christian faith, I go, you're going to attract other people that may think and feel the same way you do. I said, so you could be like the christian accountant guy. And he's like, okay, he just started doing that. So sometimes it's just a little thing that can make a difference. And I mean it. Uh, maybe your show is ten minutes long where everybody else is 30. Maybe it's three times a week where everybody else is once. There are all sorts of different ways you can mix things up. And a lot of that goes back to your why. If I'm just trying to keep my brand in front of you, maybe I'll do a, uh, quick ten minute show five times a week so I can just keep hitting you with my website. But if I want to position myself as a thought leader, maybe I'll do a show once a week for 20 minutes where I just show you how smart I am and do a deep dive into a subject. So it all kind of starts with, why am I doing this and who's it for?

>> Roberta Ndlela: It's funny when you explain it that way, especially with the accountant example.

>> Dave Jackson: Mhm.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Because sometimes the thing that could distinguish us from everybody else is what we are afraid of the most. That's where the impostor syndrome kicks in. Like for instance, when I started, I'm in the United States, but I have a zulu surname, which is challenging even for South Africans to pronounce, so let alone me trying to get an american guess what is your surname? How do you say that? And when I started, I did not mention my surname. I will just say my. I'm Roberta, your host. I did not mention my surname. I used to think it's going to distract from the conversation. It's going to be the focus of, how do you pronounce this? I thought, uh, let me not complicate anything. Let me just say I'm Roberta, and let's keep it moving. And then when I started to get comfortable, say my surname, I found that it was such a good icebreaker as well. And sometimes it would lead to a story that one of my guests would ask and times tie it in with what they're coming, especially a leadership one because of my zulu tribe and heritage. And this is the thing I was trying to hide, thinking it's going to complicate my podcasting production here.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. One of the shows you mentioned how I'd done so many, many of them I just do as a test. So I did a podcast called the worst podcast ever. I don't think it's online anymore, but it was me. And I was playing a character of a grumpy old man and I made my audio horrible. I swore like a sailor and I would curse at the audience. Why are you listening to me? You're stupid. I don't know. And what I was laughing about was I would start off, first of all, that kills my throat to do that. And I would go on and all of a sudden I'd be talking like this and all of a sudden Dave would start to come out. It's really hard to be somebody you're not. So I was just saying, just be yourself. Some people will try to be NPR and they're going to talk like this, but that's not the really, you know, like, nah, just be yourself. It's easy to be you. It's hard to be somebody else. So just lean into what you got and those that like you will like you and those that don't, that's really the hard part. We want to be liked by everybody, but you're just not for everybody and that's fine. And the people that love you will love you more. And it's easy to do that because, well, you're just being yourself.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Not only you cannot be loved by everyone, my friend always says, you are not money. Okay? Once you make peace with that fact, money is loved by everybody else. You. That shouldn't be the goal. You're not money.

>> Dave Jackson: I love that line.

Not everybody's going to like your podcast. So make peace with that

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yeah, you are not money. So make peace with that. Not everybody's going to like your show. That cannot be the goal. That means even when you focus on who your listeners are going to be, when you started, it was those who love music. The trap we fall into is we try to be everything to everyone, especially if we are coaches, because we think then everybody's going to feel like I can help them. I'm attracting more customers, which then has the opposite effect.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, I went to a family birthday party at a pizza place, and so there's twelve of us, and then we get around. We're trying to figure out, uh, what kind of pizza are we gonna get and who wants what and this and that and my aunt and my niece had the best time ever because they're the kind of people that want everything on their pizza, whatever it is.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Even pineapple.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, uh, anything. And so they're both like, yes, and mushrooms. Yes. And green peppers. Yes. And they're like, yes. And so they had the best pizza ever where, like, I like pepperoni pizza. My brother likes it, but he wants extra cheese on him. He's like, well, can you handle extra cheese? And I'm like, yeah, that'll be all right. I'm fine. So it wasn't my favorite pizza. It was good enough. It wasn't bad. And so we want our podcast to be somebody's favorite. Like, holy cow, has this person been reading my diary? How do they know exactly what I need to hear? And when you try to be everything to everyone, you end up with people going, well, I mean, it's not a bad show, but that's not really what we're going for. We're not going for, well, it's not bad. We're going for, wow, I can't believe another episode is out. I was hoping there was one coming out today, you know, and then they stop what they're doing and hit play. We want really to be somebody, just to be, uh, we want to be.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Their favorite back to you want to. You want them to feel like you're talking to them individually.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah.

You run the school of podcasting and offer courses and coaching

>> Roberta Ndlela: So you run the school of podcasting, and obviously, courses get paid for. So I'm not going to ask you to share information that your clients pay for. But just in general, if someone hears school of podcasting, what is that and.

>> Dave Jackson: What do you teach the first class? I point even people who join who've already launched their podcast, I would say go back and go through planning your podcast. And we kind of talked about that a little bit here. The your why, your who and your what, and then other things about that, because so many people don't realize their why. Like, they thought they were doing it for this, but really they're, uh. Well, I'm just doing this for fun. So there's that. But everything from that to choosing the right gear, because you don't have to spend a million bucks to sound like a million bucks. I have, some people don't have a website. They're brand new to really, the Internet in some cases. So how to build your own website and then how to get into Apple and Spotify and all those other fun places. And then if you want to monetize, I have a course on that and promotion. There's all sorts of things that people do sometimes that, uh, I have a person this evening that I'm going to be working with. And when you go to his website and you click on play, it takes you to another website. Now that's not a huge thing. It's a really easy fix. I'm like, why not just put a player right there? Why are you sending somebody to another website? Just have it right there. So all those things from planning to world domination, whatever your goal is, there's that. And my favorite part though is we have a community of people that are all helping each other and a lot of times are networking with each other. So that's a big part of it. And then I do group coaching. Like every Friday we do lunch with Dave. So we all get together, just share what we're working on and what's working and what's not. And then last year it dawned on me that I was spending an insane amount of money knocking on doors, trying to get hired as a consultant. That was like my big ticket item. Like, ooh, I make, you know, hundreds of dollars doing that an hour. This will be great. Well, not if it takes you 10 hours to get one person to say, yes, I'll hire you. And then we spend an hour, I answer all their questions and then they go away. And I was like, well, I really love coaching. That's my backbone. So what I did was I like, well, I have a whole group of people here that are already paying me money. I said, what if I make it so in the future it'll be a little more money to join and then I'm just going to offer unlimited one on one coaching. And that's what I did. And people said, but Dave, that doesn't scale. Eventually it'll be too many people and you'll burn yourself out. I'm like, you know what, I'm going to jump off that bridge when I get to it. But I also know that by doing coaching, people are sticking around longer. So that big ticket item that I somewhat lost, although I still do that, I still offer it to people, but that is now people are sticking around longer. So the actual value of a customer's lifetime, uh, in my company went up and I get to coach. People think its crazy because ill work my eight to five at Libsyn and ill get off and ill eat a quick dinner, id spend 30 minutes on a treadmill and then I come back and hop on Zoom or whatever Im doing to uh, help podcasters. And my sister in law, shes like, youre always on the computer. I go realize most of that is fun. Im scratching every itch I have. So thats really what the school of podcasting is about, its courses, community and consulting.

Now let's talk about community. What does that mean in podcasting

>> Roberta Ndlela: Now let's talk about community. You mentioned earlier that there's going to be this thing called memberships, which there's every not just podcasting, but memberships are literally everywhere. What does that mean? And how does anybody whose podcasting start to have or create a membership?

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, I mean there are all sorts of tools. I have a show action on this that kind of has gone on. Hey, it is called grow your community show and there's a bunch of resources for that. I use a tool called Heartbeat. And you kind of have to have some sort of centralized focus. So our centralized focus is even though we're all doing podcasts about different things, we're all trying to grow our audience, or at least have some sort of impact on our audience. And so in some cases, if somebody's launching a show, they'll be like, hey, I just had three different designs for artwork. Which one do you like better? Or they'll say like, hey, I'm getting ready to launch. And I remember I talked about, you have to get feedback from people who will tell you what's good. And maybe one needs a little polish. So there's some of that going on in there. But I love the fact that I have Chris Stone, uh, from castahead.net, who actually is a podcast consultant. Technically he's my competition, but he's much more of a video guy than I am. So we can kind of pull on his knowledge. And then I have, brenda's a psychologist, we have two ex pastors, we have a comedy writer, we have all sorts of different people. So when it comes to different questions, somebody like, oh, you know who we need to ask? You know, brenda, oh, we need to talk to Zeta or whoever it is. So it's a great community of people that were all there to help each other and grow our podcast together, you know? I know uh, Brad Miller lives in Indianapolis. He does a show called Cancer and Comedy, and he did a little local podcast meetup and he's about 4 hours from me. So I drove down and did a talk at his event, and somebody drove from Louisiana. It's not a long drive, but it's not a short drive. But he was a member of the school of podcasting and he and Brad are, are now very good friends. So I'm doing this myself. I'm in a few communities where you join to learn a subject. I'm in a group right now to learn ecamm live. It's this live streaming tool, but everybody in there is an entrepreneur that's all trying to get their message out. So you end up with like minded people because you're all trying to grow your podcast. So that is the fun. And just seeing the different ways people are using podcasts to achieve whatever their goal is.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Um, I think it's really beautiful in the way you put that, because, one, they do say that podcasting can be a lonely journey. And also, if I'm thinking, okay, how do I do this? Yes, I can go to YouTube and it says, how do you do this on a podcast? How do you edit your episode, whatever it is, and the information is there. But to bounce ideas off other people who are on the same journey, and the more that you meet, the more they know your history, your story. And just combining ideas together like that is so, so beneficial, Jeff.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah. And I always try to end. If somebody asks me a question and I'll be like, well, based on this, I think this, this, and that. And I always try to end with, what do you guys think? Because just because I'm the head of the school of podcasting, everybody again has their own little bubbles and circumstances that they're living in, and they may have something I've never even thought of. So I. I love to poll the group sometimes and go, what do you guys think? This is what I think. But, you know, maybe there's a better way. So I try to make that community to where anybody can voice anything, you know, because it might not be the best idea, but that might trigger somebody else to go, ooh, that's not bad. But what if you did this and then somebody goes, oh, you know what would be even better? So it's just a really safe community. We don't talk politics. We don't talk any. We're here to talk about podcasting and connecting with your audience. So it's a great time. And, uh, I know I look forward to Fridays because I'm like, oh, it's lunch with Dave day. So I always look forward to it.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Especially because you love people, as we can tell from your personality. Yeah.

>> Dave Jackson: Uh, it's funny. When I was 16, I got fired from my first job because I was painfully shy. Just I was.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Cause I was just, I could not.

>> Dave Jackson: If my 16 year old self saw me now, they'd be like, wait, what? I'd gotten a job through school at a grocery store, and I got fired. And he said, you don't talk to anybody. He goes, that's not going to work in this job. So I get back to school, and my teacher is like, yeah. He said, you're too shy. And I go, well, I kind of am. And he's like, all right, here's what I want you to do. He goes, act the way you want to be. And my best friend is like, total monkey hour, mister extrovert. And he goes, be more like your friend. And in my head, I'm like, I might as well grow a third arm. That's just never going to happen. And he said, act the way you want to be, and someday you'll be the way you act, which is basically, fake it till you make it. I was like, okay, I'll try. And luckily, that year, there was a speech class in high school that I had to take. I was like, oh, uh, this is going to be horrible. But because I like to make people laugh, my very first speech, I had a couple jokes in it, and they landed, and I was like, oh, wait a minute. This might actually be fun. And so I slowly came out of my bubble. There's still times I remember I went to an event, and I was at a dinner for just speakers. And I was like, well, if anybody in here needs a podcast, it's speakers, right? I was like, and here I was way over in the corner, separated from everybody else, and I just kind of in my head was like, okay, idiot. You know? And then I just looked up and said, okay, there's. There's that girl right there. She's the closest one. Can you walk up to her and say, what brings you to the show? And in my head, I'm like, yes, I can do that. And I walked up and said, what brings you to the show? And that led to a conversation. But there's still times when I was married, occasionally my ex wife would look and go, oh, don't, don't, don't.

Dave was asked to do stand up comedy last year

Don't be Dave. Don't be shy Dave. I don't want to be with shy Dave tonight. Come on, come out. So, yeah, it's still in there. Yeah, I'm much better, obviously, now than I was back when I was 16.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Absolutely. Uh, I couldn't picture shy Dave at all, which means there's hope for introverts. When asked us, can I be a podcast? I'll say, look at Dave.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, we kind of have a running gag at the school of podcasting that nobody's going to punch you in the face because, you know, they're listed in their car, so there's really no harm. And so I just slowly, over time, would try this and then try that and like, oh, this worked. That didn't work. And just last year, I was asked to do stand up comedy, and I've never done that. Don't consider myself a comedian by any means. And it had to be clean. And I was like, well, he's like, just like five minutes. And I was like, uh, yeah, I think I can come up with something. Cause I was asked to speak at a high school reunion, uh, fairly close to that. And I was like, I'll take some of that material and put it up. But I was so incredibly uncomfortable. I was just sweating. And I just remember at that time thinking, remember how this feels? Remember how uncomfortable you feel? Cause you're the guy that's like, oh, come on, start a podcast. It's no big deal. And that person is like, I am so uncomfortable. But I tried it. I wasn't great, but I wasn't bad. You know, I scored a couple ones there, and I was like, all right, well, I don't want to do it again, but I've got the t shirt, I've got the experience. I always say when you start a podcast, you're either going to end up with a great podcast or a story about that time when you started a podcast. And in this case, I was like, well, I'll either knock him dead trying to do comedy, or I'll have a great story about that one time when I tried to do stand up. So nobody's going to punch you in the face.

>> Roberta Ndlela: No. And it's a story that we love listening to as well.

With engaging your listeners, how do you invite them to give feedback

One last question, Dave. With engaging your listeners, how do you invite them to respond to whatever episode and give their feedback and what they would like to hear or anything, anything at all? How do they communicate with you?

>> Dave Jackson: Uh, yeah, you want to make it super clear and super specific. And so if I ask somebody, so what do you think of the show? Very generic question. You will get an answer that's very generic. Like, that was good.

You answer the question of the month on schoolofpodcasting. com

Okay. And I always slightly get really nervous. I do it every month. I have a question of the month, and it'll be like, this month is, there's a thing called podcasting 2.0. And I'm like, it's new. We've been talking about it, but it's kind of hard to explain. So I want to know, what do you know about podcasting 2.0? Because once I know where my audience is, I can figure out where to start on how to explain it, and then I always say, be sure to mention a little bit about your show and your website so I can link to it in the show notes. So there's their incentive. If you want a little promotion, just come over and answer the question of the month. So it's a very specific question. Then I give them a very specific way to answer it. So if you go to schoolofpodcasting.com question, you can answer it right there, you can record it right there, or if you've already recorded it, you can upload it. So it's a very specific question. I tell them how to answer, and then I tell them when to answer. I'm like, I need your answer by this date. And then, uh, so far, knock on for a micah or whatever you got in front of you. I've always had people answer the question. I think that's a key. Sometimes we just go, well, let me know what you thought about this episode.

Sometimes only 3% of your audience will respond to your podcast

Well, what was the episode about? I know we know it was about communication, but you could say, do you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert? And if you're an introvert, how did you overcome it? Or are you still an introvert? Let me know. And then most people have whatever their website is, slash contacts, like, so for me, it's schoolofpodcasting.com contact, and then it's easy to remember. It, uh, reinforces your brand, right? So whatever your website is. And then the thing you have to get your head around. And this is a horrible stat, and I wish it was true, but if you're doing really, really good, maybe 3% of your audience will respond. Every time I've talked to anybody, I just heard a show this week where somebody said they got up to 4%, and I was like, well, that's.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Which is a new high.

>> Dave Jackson: I know one person that got five, but especially if you're trying to get somebody to buy something, but even just sending an email, it's always kind of fun how just getting them to do that. I know sometimes personal stories. When Muhammad Ali died, when I was growing up, Nixon was president when I was a little kid, but Nixon was president, and Ali was champ. And the more I grew up, there was so much more to that guy than boxing. And he stood up for what he believed in. And I. So when he died, I was really bummed. He was one of my heroes. So I did an episode because I still wanted to talk about podcasts. I wanted to talk about Muhammad Ali. So I'm like, here are something like eight things you, every podcaster can learn from Muhammad Ali. Number one, always promoting. Number two, totally unique. Number three, really talented. Number four, stood up for what you believed in, even if it wasn't popular. So I went through this whole list and I had a few people reply to me that were like, hey, he was my champ too, buddy, because it really resonated with them. And once I get that email now we got a conversation, I'm like, hey, thanks so much for listening. I really appreciate it. Uh, how did you find the show, by the way? And is there anything else you'd like me to talk about on the show? And now it's just back and forth and back and forth because I always want to find out how they found me because I want to do more of that.

>> Roberta Ndlela: I ask especially I had an example of someone who approached me.

>> Dave Jackson: Mhm.

>> Roberta Ndlela: And I said, please tell me how you find me so that I do more of whatever you did to find me. My sister says she found you. I said, okay, please go ask your sister where she found me. So I do more of that, whatever it is. She said she forgot it was some google thing. But I also want to know because it helps me know this works. This not so much. Do more of that. Yes.

>> Dave Jackson: I haven't done one in a while, but I need to do because, uh, you can make a quick survey at, uh, using Google forms and that's free. And in some cases you could do something as simple as, hey, listen to this episode. Did you make it all the way through? If not, how far did you make it and why did you stop? And then on a scale from one to ten, where ten is everybody, how likely are you to share this with a friend? And if you get anything below a seven, you need to find out what's going on. You know, plenty of times when people stop halfway through because they were listening to you on the way to the store or the dentist or wherever they're going, and then they get back in and turn something else on. So it's not always if they don't make it all the way through. It's not always that your show is awful, but you need to know that. Yeah. So you can do a survey of people and find out what's going on. And those that really, you know, like the show will tell you, but also those people sometimes will tell you, yeah, this whole thing with the cat that you do at the end, I wish you would lose that. I don't like that. And you have to be okay with that.

>> Roberta Ndlela: So of course, of course, whatever the feedback is, because it's not about us. It's about the listeners, for sure.

Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting shares some advice on starting a podcast

Any last words of wisdom? Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting.

>> Dave Jackson: Yeah, you just said it. Uh, really, any kind of feedback you get, it's not really about you. It's about them. Maybe they had a really great day, and you just complimented it all the way. But I always talk about when you get those negative comments. I just did an episode on this about how do you stay motivated? Because people was like, you've been doing this so long. How do you stay motivated? And I'm like, well, number one. And I read, I have, um, like four or five one star review in Apple, and I read them all, and I said, I have a name for these people. And people thought I was gonna pour out some expletive. And I go, not my target audience. I go, again, you have to be okay with people not always liking what you do. I appreciate the fact that they gave it a try. But, uh, the one guy, I guess in the middle of my show, I tell people about the school of podcasting for 60 seconds, and to him, that was too much. And I was like, well, you're not the target audience then. So the bottom line is, you don't have to be great to start, but you do have to start to be great. Zig Ziglar said that the sales trainer, and, uh, I always liked that line. So, yeah. Thinking of starting a podcast? Come see me.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yes, come see Dave Jackson. Indeed, words of wisdom from Dave Jackson, the podcast consultant who's been podcasting since 2005 and has been inducted into the podcasting hall of fame. Thank you so much, Dave. You really did take us to school. Thank you so much for sharing all this wisdom and experience with us.

>> Dave Jackson: Oh, uh, thank you so much. I really do appreciate it.

>> Roberta Ndlela: My pleasure. Before you go, please share with us again all the online tools and where to find you.

>> Dave Jackson: There's two, really. One is, obviously, we keep mentioning the school of podcasting. That's just@schoolofpodcasting.com dot. But I have had people say, Dave, you have more than that show. Where can I find all things Dave? And that is@powerofpodcasting.com. dot. So between those two websites, you can.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Find everything I'm doing, schoolofpodcasting.com comma, powerofpodcasting.com all, uh, from Dave Jackson. Thank you so much.

Speaking on communicating podcast focuses on improving your communication skills

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