Speaking and Communicating Podcast

This podcast focuses on improving your communication skills both professionally and personally

>> Speaker A: The other one popped up and said, hey, we just want to congratulate our competition. Their candy bar is delicious. Based on the study, the candy bar that complemented the competition ended up getting like a 30% increase in candy sales. The other side did not see any boost, despite the fact that the competition called them delicious.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Welcome back to the speaking and communicating podcast. I am, um, your host, Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. Now, in this exciting month of May, we have an amazing lineup of guests for you. On Mondays, our special guests will be helping us with our inner communication. On Wednesdays, we have public speaking experts helping us with becoming better public speakers. And on Fridays, our, uh, guests will be showing us how to reach global audiences. So stay tuned. Share these episodes with those who will benefit from them, and log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Now let's get communicating.

Scott Murray is a content marketing expert specializing in consumer focused messaging

>> Roberta Ndlela: Now, let's get communicating with Scott Murray, hailing all the way from Texas, he has 20 plus years in content marketing, specializing in consumer focused messaging, content and differentiation. And he helps you improve your marketing through a focus on this is the show, communication and consumers. And before I go any further, please help me welcome him to the show. Hi, Scott.

>> Speaker A: Hello, Roberta. How are you?

>> Roberta Ndlela: I'm doing fantastic. How are you?

>> Speaker A: I'm doing good. I'm hanging in there. Which is better than the alternative, isn't it?

>> Roberta Ndlela: Oh, absolutely, for sure. Welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us.

For profit marketing is about humanizing brands for consumers

Please tell us a little bit about yourself.

>> Speaker A: I'm in, uh, Texas, and I've lived here my whole life, and I have had the opportunity to evolve content and communication strategies for the last 20 years and a lot of different media. I would say some of the humanization aspects actually started when I got this random opportunity to work in radio. And it involved the nonprofit sector, and it involved fundraising, and specifically fundraising that was struggling to get people to donate money. Went in there and turned that around. And then after three and a half years of doing that, um, I got into for profit marketing. Did that for the last twelve years. But I soon noticed that some of those strategies that I was using, that nonprofits have to use, uh, when it comes to making that human connection by the words you choose and how you communicate things suddenly started to apply for the for profit space because consumers that are out there in the digital space, as you know, are demanding that brands quit talking to them like their wallets and start talking to them like they're people. So that's what I help people do.

Both for profit and nonprofit organizations are having similar challenges with marketing

>> Roberta Ndlela: So are you saying that the turnaround or getting people to donate in the nonprofit organizations was choosing words that felt like they were talking to humans?

>> Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think what's kind of interesting about it is both the for profit side and the nonprofit side are having similar challenges. And part of it is what I just call business habituation. So there's that in our minds that just tells us this is how we do it. And then for whatever reason, the brain just locks that down. And that's the way people do it for years and years and years, even though on the outside world things are changing, consumers are changing, attitudes are changing. But it doesn't matter because we get in these kind of one track minds as marketers or content creators and businesses, and we say things the same way, we do things the same way over and over and over again. New generations come in and do it that way as well, because they've heard it and they go, oh, yeah, I remember that. That's how you say that when you're fundraising. Meanwhile, the consumers who've been listening to the station from years are like, I hear this all the time. I hear this from stations. They're always begging for money. It wears me down. They don't ever say anything different. And for profit businesses on the marketing side are having the same issue. There's a lot of strategies still being used today that they used in good old fashioned radio and tv advertising back in the eighties and nineties. And they market things constantly, like commercial commercials and promotions. And again, not only have consumers heard that for years and years and years, but now on the Internet, they have people constantly selling them stuff with that language all the time. And there isn't any way for somebody to really differentiate themselves if you're just trying to sell better than everybody else. You've got to evolve how you're saying it and the words you choose and really start to show people that you're different. You're really trying to connect with them and you're really trying to help them.

>> Roberta Ndlela: And we'll come to the Internet market for a second, but let's look at the other side of this. If you've been marketing a certain way for years, how do you have the analytics to say, if we do it this way, it doesn't land with the consumers? Because the reason sometimes people do things for decades the same way? Has anyone brought it to their attention that, wait a minute, you actually are losing this is the graphic. This is what it's showing. This is what, uh, the stats are showing. How do they know or come to the realization that, wait a minute, this no longer works?

>> Speaker A: Well, I think it obviously depends on the business in this situation. A lot of times in recent years, I've noticed that it has a lot more to do with, we're doing okay, but we're not really elevating. We're kind of stuck. We keep having that meeting every year about, this is the year we're going to take things to a new level, but then we keep doing things the same way. And then we're wondering why the next year we're saying, okay, this is the year. So it could be doing well and not realize how much better you could be doing. I've used the analogy before that it's kind of like going on the price is right, which is, you know, been a popular game show for many, many years. So you want to talk about lots of generations that have seen those contestants go on there. And it would be like going there with a chance to win $10,000. And, you know, when people win $10,000 and the price is right, they, you know, act like crazy fools on, on the stage, jump up and down, scream and yell and do all kinds of stuff. But imagine if someone had a chance to win $10,000, but they won $90 and had the same reaction to winning $10,000. You'd be like, wait a minute, what's going on here? And that is really the analogy I use. You might be successful enough to maybe be slightly profitable or doing okay, but you're leaving a lot of money on the table by not evolving and at least attempting to, uh, go with the times. When it comes to exactly what's happening out there, both with consumers and content, you really don't realize just how much better you could be doing by aligning yourself with what's happening out there today.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Which then begs the question, how do I know what the consumers are thinking?

>> Speaker A: Well, there's lots of stuff to tap into there. I mean, that's what's kind of funny about digital marketing, creating some of the challenges they're creating and why habituation is such a problem, because that's just breaking out of our habits. I mean, when you look at digital marketing, when everything changed, you know, we weren't relying on tv and radio all the time. Now, the Internet had social media and video advertising stuff. We as marketers, we had a lot of stuff to figure out. Not dating myself too much, here. But, uh, I was doing stuff before the Internet became what it was today. And we had to figure that stuff out. We had to figure out, you know, what worked, what was going to engage people, how we could make the Internet work for content in our business. And then Google got involved and consumer behaviors changed and things like that. However, when we start talking about things that we need to figure out, when it comes to consumer behavior, I mean, there are books on consumer behavior and psychology books written on consumer behavior and sociology books written on consumer behavior that fit why people respond to messages, interpret messages the way they do. And then of course, there's a lot of really good studies out there today and books out there today on consumer behavior and how they're changing things. In fact, this book behind me is, uh, was written by Mark Schaeffer and a bunch of his friends, including myself. And it's all kinds of marketing topics. And my, my topic in this book was actually about how consumer behavior is changing our marketing world today and specifically some of the ways they're doing it. And part of that is changing things that marketers have always thought that consumers are now saying, yeah, great, that doesn't matter to me. Here's what does matter to me. And there's a lot out there that'll show you that. And then of course, the other aspect is trying to interview your own consumers, your own audience talking to them. And sometimes it's not just scheduling a call, it might be a customer that you get a chance to talk to after they bought something. Or if you have events, you can ask questions or send out surveys and they'll tell you what they think and you can develop some content around that too.

Scott Murray: Marketing needs to humanize its content to make people feel

>> Roberta Ndlela: Now, like I said earlier, we were going to come to the Internet marketing section. There's always these templates. Everybody's sounding the same.

>> Speaker A: Mhm.

>> Roberta Ndlela: If everybody sounds the same, what is then going to differentiate? Because there's even coaching programs that say, oh, Scott, I'm going to sell you the template so every ad looks the same, exactly the same. What's going to differentiate you if you just a template?

>> Speaker A: Well, I think we're going to talk about that here in a little bit because I've kind of developed a simple way to kind of think through some things in order to be able to break out of the language used in that template because that's the other element of marketing that's become kind of one track because a lot of templates are also aligned with the idea that, okay, we just drop this in here and we're going to send this to 5000 people.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Right.

>> Speaker A: But we also generally know as marketers, we almost have it pretty much accepted that we know we're only going to get about a one to 2% response out of 5000 people. So the question becomes, why aren't we doing more to personalize or make those messages more personal to the people that we know are fans of the brand, know they care about the content we're sharing with them and figure out ways to talk to them in a more humanistic way. I mean, how many times have you gotten an email blast you a can tell it went to a bunch of people, not just you. And the other thing you can tell is that if you were to read that out loud, you probably sound like a radio advertisement instead of somebody actually talking to you. So that's what that's all about. We got to get away from templates that tell us what to say. There's nothing wrong with templates. I think that give us a format to make sure we're not putting just text walls in front of people. But there are things that we have to kind of tweak a little bit to fit the people that we want to talk to.

>> Roberta Ndlela: And I believe you have developed something called a stamp program that is going to address just that. Would you like to walk us, uh, through it?

>> Speaker A: Sure. And stamp. The reason why I went with stamp is because I feel like when it comes to certain things about humanization, there's going to be things that obviously overlap, is going to apply to everybody. But when it comes to the way your brand speaks, the way your brand humanizes things, there's an element of your style that is really about putting your stamp on it. So, but really what I wanted to do with the letters is, I mean, I'm sure members of your audience have heard people say, you got to humanize, you got to personalize, make people feel.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Like they can connect on a human level with your message. Yes, exactly.

>> Speaker A: How? But how? Exactly? And that's usually the question. I get it. Sometimes it's challenging because you also have to know a little more about the business. But I've worked really hard to try to help come up with a way where people can maybe just ask themselves some questions or think about some concepts. Almost like a checklist. And this is a checklist that can help you either evolve existing content and make it more human, or it can help you create a checklist that will help you kind of create content right from the starting point by addressing these things.

Your content online has to be kind of a two way communication

>> Roberta Ndlela: Right.

>> Speaker A: So in stamp, the first thing we have is we have self awareness. Now think about that. I know here you are doing a great show on communication and even person to person communication and leadership communication, there's that important thing of self awareness and that's being self aware of what we're saying, how we're saying it, and understanding why and what we look to achieve when we're speaking. That's the same thing we need to do with our content now. We need to be able to say, okay, why am I going to blast this out to 5000 people? And if the answer is because I, I just don't want to write anything else for the rest of the day and I just, you know, 2% is good for me, well then there you go. Something where it's like I'm self aware to know that I'm just trying to do this for me. Well then it's a self defeating prophecy. And really what you need is the ability to be able to step back and go, okay, I'm really only thinking about me here. I'm really only thinking about the sell here. I'm really only thinking about hitting this number in my marketing ah, spreadsheet instead of what the consumer wants from me, which is proof that I'm genuinely here to help them. I'm not here to spam their inbox or spam their messages or spam anything else. I'm here to actually help them. And I know that I need to speak to them in a way that is going to break those barriers that consumers have about people's intent when they get that stuff in their inbox or they see that content online. The t in the um, um, in stamp is two way communication. And that's critical to what we were just talking about a second ago. Because back in the days of eighties and nineties, tv and radio, all we had to do was get the tv and radio commercials to do the talking for us. And there was no way the consumer could say anything back because it was captive audience. It was people sitting in front of their tvs or sitting in front of their radios. So what's happened is people that were in that industry have gone to social media and says, oh well, that's what we'll do. We'll just do what we did in tv and radio on social media. And then they suddenly realized that wasn't going to work because now the consumer can say something back or they can ignore it or they can block it or they can just keep scrolling and.

>> Roberta Ndlela: There'S so much of it to competing with your message.

>> Speaker A: That's right.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Mhm.

>> Speaker A: That at least is a way to be aware that you need to create things that are going to generate responses, create conversations, especially in social media. Andy Crestedina and his company orbit Media did a great study with question pro not long ago where they asked brands, why do people follow you on social media? And the brand said, well, to subscribe to our content because our content is so good. And then they went to the consumer and they said, why do you follow brands on social media? Guess what? They didn't say, because we're subscribing to that great content. They said, we do it to keep in touch, we do it to have conversations, and we do it to form connections. So knowing that, that's why your content online has to be kind of a two way communication. It has to invite the ability for somebody to have a conversation, to make a connection, to keep in touch. So that's two way communication.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Just on that point, a lot of us do intend to have that two way communication. What do we do wrong when we just post? But there's no engagement.

>> Speaker A: It just means that's not what your audience wants. So you got to test things out a little bit. That's something that will never change in marketing. We have to experiment. We have to try things. You know, I remember working for a company not long ago that was constantly promoting and they felt like they always had to have a link back to their page for everything they shared or a graphic. And I said, actually, you know, first off, link back, you know, at that point in time was definitely hurting them because LinkedIn doesn't want you leaving their platforms. You know, it might be a little harder to get visibility there. But I also took a very important piece out of that blog and wrote it, framed it in a way where it was just text only on LinkedIn and it was just highlighting a key important point. They were making this blog that was actually valuable to people and just left it alone. And I showed them how the engagement and the text only post with this really insightful point from the brand did ten times better than just sharing the blog, saying, hey, check this out. Because it wasn't a link back to them, like it was almost every time, and it wasn't something insightful. It caused engagement, it caused people to react to it because it was interesting. It also allowed that brand to say something, you know, where they were taking a stand in their industry. So sometimes, as simple as that, or asking a question or creating a poll, just things to generate conversation. There might be some opportunities there where you can get answers from people, you know, if you ask something about their challenges and they respond and they tell you that might be a good way to even help create the next piece of content or social post to provide a solution or an insight about something they say is a challenge.

You have to be able to adapt. The a is adaptability

>> Roberta Ndlela: Right. Let's go to the next one. The a.

>> Speaker A: The a is adaptability. So we were talking just about that. You have to be able to adapt. It's so funny. I was talking to Robert Rose on, uh, my podcast, and, you know, Robert is with the Content Marketing Institute. And the Content Marketing Institute just partnered with the american marketing association to provide the 2024 version of the professional certified marketer course to give you the PCM title. So it's a very credible title from both of those organizations. And so we talked on the podcast about all the elements of modern marketing that Robert teaches in the course for you to get that certification. We talked about the future and how, you know, there are things that are, you know, you really have to be able to keep up. And he said that content marketing is not a project, it's a process. So that automatically means that you're constantly having to evolve. But the other funny thing about it was they wanted him to add in this last little part in the course about AI and all these trends that are happening now with tech and some more advanced things. He said, nope, not doing it. Because as soon as I do it and it goes out six months later, it'll already have changed. The ink would have dried by the time, uh, I wrote on it. And you're going to have to erase it. So you have to be aware of some of the things that are going on out there. And that's one of the things that's making it challenging for companies today is you get locked in on one thing and things are changing and you're still throwing this stuff out the way you did five years ago, and it's not working real well. And it's because there are things out there that are happening that you haven't adapted to.

>> Roberta Ndlela: I have a cousin who studied computer science.

>> Speaker A: Mhm.

>> Roberta Ndlela: You would be at university for four years while studying certain programming languages. And somebody who goes on bootcamp is learning the latest one for seven months.

>> Speaker A: Yes.

>> Robert Sandleila: And then by the time you graduate, they are already ahead because they were just keeping up with, because there's a new programming language every day. There's a new software program every day.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. And I think marketing's having some of those challenges as well. You know, it's not uncommon to maybe even get a degree in marketing. And look, I am 110% about education, 110% about going and getting that degree. But you have to be aware of what you're getting out of that degree. And, uh, depending on the program, you might be getting a solid foundation. So you come out of college with that foundation, and then now what's good is, like you said, boot camps. I mean, that's a great example about boot camps and how they're a little more ahead of the times, and that's one of the reasons why they're so popular. And there are digital marketing boot camps as well. Uh, but there's also really good thought leaders out there that are sharing stuff all the time on places like LinkedIn. And you can learn a lot from those people as far as modern marketing is concerned, because they're posting every day. They're not holding on to something that's been part of their curriculum for six years.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Which means then part of adaptability is the honors being on you to keep up, even if you are in college, at university, which you encourage, but to keep up with what's going on outside of what your curriculum is teaching you.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, Mark Schaeffer, you know, who was the lead author on this book, you know, he's been doing this for a long time, and he's gotten really good at figuring out stuff that's going to happen before it does. In marketing, he says something that I like to quote all the time, although I usually end up paraphrasing it, but it's something to the effect of, you know, today is like the slowest day of change in your life.

>> Roberta Ndlela: In the truth, yes. Be adaptable, and because at the end of the day, you don't want to be, uh, a codec or a blockbuster. You want to keep up. Um, for sure, yeah. Be adaptable.

M is meaningful language that helps people connect with content

And then let's go to the m.

>> Speaker A: So m is meaningful language, and we were just kind of touching on that a moment ago about how you can send out an email and it reads just like a radio spot. I wrote my LinkedIn newsletter just here recently and talked about on the podcast that, you know, people have voices in their heads when they read things sometimes. And I think when I shared on LinkedIn, I even used the emperor from Star wars, because I love this meme that has the emperor, and it's from Return of the Jedi. So he's sitting in that chair on the meme. It says, you read this in my voice, didn't you? You're like, yes, I did. You know, if something sometimes reads like an ad, we've been bombarded with so many spots and ads that it's possible they might, assuming they're reading it, they're reading that ad as if it were a radio spot, you know, especially if it opens with a typical radio type question like, are you struggling to do this in your business? And you're like, yep, that's how I'm reading it. And if I have that voice in my head, I'm m probably going to delete it and not read anymore. So we have to find language where it really does sound like, hey, you know what? I'm not a company that's trying to sell you, or I'm not just sending this to you because it's going to benefit me and my business. I'm doing this because I understand you're a person or you're a business that needs help. And I'm here to connect with you so that I can provide you solutions that you need. But I want to take time to get to know you and provide you with value. So when that time comes where you need something, I'm here to provide whatever it is that you need. But in the meantime, I'm going to keep trying to provide you with value and things that are helpful to you. Uh, so we have that connection. I have a colleague that talks about maybe you make those connections on social first.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Mhm.

>> Speaker A: So that way when you send the email, they already know you. So it's less likely that they're going to delete because they're like, oh, that's that person that engages with me on LinkedIn or Facebook or X. The example I use for meaningful language in the newsletter is the Truman show. So if you've ever seen a Truman show, you have that moment in Truman show where Jim Carrey just wants to have a meaningful conversation with his wife, but what does she do? Turns around and tells him, you should buy this cocoa, and it's this, that and the other, and sounds just like an ad. And he's looking around going, what are you talking about? So when people get things in their email boxes or they see content that looks salesy, when they're really looking for a meaningful connection and a meaningful conversation about something they need, and they get an ad or something that sounds like one, they're going to have that same reaction as Jim Carrey. They're going to look around and go, what do talking about? So, so meaningful language is really, really key. We have to see if that language that we're writing or producing in our content sounds human. Does it sound like something we would say if we were standing in front of them at a conference, or does it sound like an ad on the Internet?

>> Roberta Ndlela: I like the relationship building aspect and what you touched on, delivering value. Heard that people who give so much of free stuff of free value, that's usually the content creators that people come to and say, I want to know more about your services.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I think about the first conference I went to, and that was the social media marketing World conference, which has been out now for, I think, 1012 years. They just had it recently, um, in San Diego. They always have in San Diego. And Mike Stelzner has done a really good job of bringing some really smart people to that conference. And how did I learn about this conference? And better yet, why did I go? How did they get the money to go? Fortunately, I was able to go to my boss and say, hey, can I go to this? So it was. So I was able to go because the company sent me. But how did they get my company's money? Well, I was listening to their podcast, and their podcast didn't spend all day saying, you know what? We got all this stuff that you want, and you want to go to our conference and you want to buy it, you know, buy tickets to it and all this. It's because they demonstrated the value of what was going to be at the conference by showcasing experts on the podcast that I was going to get to eventually also meet at the conference and learn more from at the conference. So it made it very easy for them, after I've gotten all these insights from these professionals, for them to say, hey, you want to meet them? You want to learn more from them and then have a whole conference pull of it. We're going to have that. It was a no brainer, because like you just said, I had already gotten free value from them. So I was thinking, well, if it's this good for free, imagine how good it'll be when we pay for something, right?

Scott: At some point you have to go and pitch. Are they doing it wrong?

>> Roberta Ndlela: But let's look at the other side of that, uh, coin. When you build the relationship, which I've received. I don't know about you, Scott, online, it's, oh, Roberta, I love the content. I love the content. I love the content. And then boom, um, this is where it's been leading to, which means, by the way, your SEO or this or that, and they're all starting to sound the same, which is even the way that they engage with me in the relationship building phase. It's starting to sound similar as well. I don't know if I'm, um, painting a scenario that you can picture.

>> Speaker A: Are you saying that they've connected? And maybe some of the early connections seem genuine, and then suddenly the more they talk to you, the more salesy it becomes.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yeah. So they will connect. And I'm thinking, oh, great. And I would even ask, I'm like, what is it that you like? So we talk more about that topic, and then in the next one I say, oh, this is great. I'm thinking, oh, wow, I have a new list now around the fifth email. And then they pull the trigger, by the way.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Well, you know, people talk about that kind of thing on LinkedIn, too, you know, and you think, oh, well, we have some common interest, or maybe they put out that first communication to connect, and it sounds like, you know, we have something in common. Let's connect. And then, yeah, within 24 hours, you've got a message going, hey, I just want to let you know about my service or let you know about this thing.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Look at discovery call. Yes. So are they doing it wrong? Because at some point you have. But Scott, at some point you have to go and pitch. You have to look for clients. Are they doing it wrong? And you said yes. Is there a better way?

>> Speaker A: Well, I mean, yes, because at some point in time, like, let's look at the example of social media marketing world. You could say, you need people to go to that conference. You need listeners to go to that conference. So why aren't you hitting them up all the time about going to the conference, you know, and all these things? Because they knew that the content they were offering for free was good enough to make the pitch for them. They didn't have to keep pushing it on us because the value was already there. And at some point, you have to start really having faith that the relationship you're building, the content you're providing, is developing trust to where when you do have to make that pitch, it's a better timing for it. Or maybe they've reached out to you. But everything we're talking about here is if you make that pitch, we have to have all these elements and stamp because we have to make sure that we are writing something in a way that doesn't come off the way you were just mentioning, where it feels like, dang, we just connected, and he already wants something from me. So if we learn that that doesn't work, then maybe we need to rethink about when that pitch takes place, the language we use when that pitch takes place. And then what are we doing in the meantime to stay in touch but not feeling like every time that we have to make a pitch, because that's the old school thinking, is if we're not keeping our product and our pitches in front of them, we're going to lose them. But the consumer behavior today says something different. And by the way, when I say consumer, I also mean B. Two B. Because you're still trying to connect with the person.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yes, yes, absolutely. So, meaningful language.

Marketers need to stop thinking like marketers and start thinking like consumers

And what's the last one? Uh, what's the p?

>> Speaker A: So, P is predictive intelligence. One of the things I said very early on when I went on my own was marketers really have to stop thinking like marketers, because what ends up happening is, and this kind of goes back to the one track mind a little bit, what ends up happening is we get in that marketing mindset, and, you know, the very definition of marketing has the word promotion in it, and I think sell. So what are we doing all the time? We're promoting and selling. And what does that mean? That means we end up creating content at work that if we got home and saw that same content, we wouldn't engage with it in a million years.

>> Roberta Ndlela: You'd be channel surfing.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. You'd be like, well, I'm not looking at that. They're just trying to sell me something. So we have to remember that we're also consumers, you know, and start thinking about things that would resonate with us, especially if we have some things in common with our target audience. But the really important thing about predictive intelligence and really, what I mean by it, is predicting how our audience, based on what we know of them, is going to respond to this piece of content I just produced or wrote. And we can make that prediction based on what we know of them, but we can also jump to some conclusions as well, based on what we know of just humans and people. I think of an episode of the Big Bang Theory. Can you tell much pop culture I use and stuff.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Hey, Sheldon.

>> Speaker A: So the big Bang theory had this episode where Sheldon is learning how to meditate from Raj. And so they're sitting there, and they've got the candles lit, and Sheldon is sitting there, and Raj goes, okay, now close your eyes. And Sheldon says, okay, but don't punch me. And Raj is like, what are you talking about? He goes, well, when I was growing up, my sister would always tell me to close my eyes and I'd get a surprise, and then she would punch me. And he goes, I'm not going to punch you. And he said, well, that's what my sister said. Right? So consumers get punched by things on a regular basis. Clickbait is a punch to the face. Spam is a punch to the face. What you just said, it looked like this guy that reached out to me had great intentions, but then he punched me in the face because all he wanted to do was sell me. So, because that happens to people, their experiences have created walls to protect them from, uh, I'm not going to click on that. That's probably clickbait. I'm not going to do that because they're probably just trying to sell me. They land on a blog and they see that companies link to themselves in the first paragraph. Okay, well, that's clear why this was written. This is to benefit them and not me. So they already have that cynicism. We all have that cynicism. It's like when we walk on a car lot and that guy says, hi, how you doing? Yeah, he's smiling. Were thinking, he doesn't have my best intentions in mind. You know, it's the same thing. We have to develop language and communications to break those barriers, to tell somebody that we're different. And if we sound like everybody else and look like everybody else is trying to trick everybody into clicking on something or buying something, we're not going to be able to do it. So we need to be able to look at our content and try to predict, okay, if I'm hearing this on a podcast, if I'm watching this on video, I'm reading this as a consumer, how would I feel? And do I think I'm doing a good job of lowering some of those cynicism defenses because we're saying it this way instead of this way. That's a huge part of what we have to do if we're serious about making a connection.

>> Roberta Ndlela: It's like holding up a mirror and saying, if this was me, how would I feel about it? So then don't create it for other people.

>> Speaker A: We are in a very do unto others era in marketing.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yes. Or as they call in communication, the, uh, platinum rule, because the golden rule from the Bible says, treat Scott the way I want to be treated. But the platinum rule is, treat Scott the way he wants to be treated.

>> Speaker A: Ah, even better. That's right.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yeah. So please give us again the five stamp concepts from what you've discussed today.

>> Speaker A: Sure. The stamp is, remember, even as you learn this and develop this, there's still an element of your stamp, your voice that you're putting on this. These are just guidelines to kind of help you evolve the content or create content to make those human connections. So we have self awareness, two way communication, adaptability, meaningful language and predictive intelligence. So that way we know where we're coming from, we don't lose sight of the audience, and we put ourselves in a much better position to write content that provides contrast and, and clarity and connection.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Because connection, at the end of the day, is exactly what people are looking for.

Scott Murray: Content creators need to keep evolving to stand out from competition

Any last words for any content creator who's thinking, how do I stand out?

>> Speaker A: Well, first off, thanks for asking the question, because that's the key to everything today. But you'd be amazed at just how many people are still doing old repetitive stuff. That's really what this is about. There's a great communication theory, or it's kind of a theory called, uh, coordinated management of meaning, where they were tying everything together as to where people, uh, will coordinate the meanings of messages and communications. And one of the key elements of coordinated management and meaning is mystery. And I like the use of mystery when it comes to content, the communication and content, because that's what we want, that mystery. You know, we see all this repetitive stuff, but what's that one thing that makes us scroll past old stuff, same stuff. Then you go, whoa, what's that? What's that mean? That's not what I'm used to seeing. I need to learn more about that. There's that mystery. And if you're constantly creating content that everybody else is out there creating, then you're not generating any mystery. There's no reason to stop. And you'll notice that especially in the small business sector, you know, and like a, uh, software as a service or, you know, b two b company, they're all writing blogs about their product the exact same way, using the exact same language. And some of those guys have been in the industry for six, seven, eight years. So the Internet's already loaded with that language, loaded with that type of content. And if you add it eight years later, I mean, the consumer's already read it six times. So you've got to figure out a way to do something different. And with all the changes happening in SEO right now, where it's just ten times harder to rank and all that stuff, especially if you're a small business, you have other opportunities to get leverage on your competition by just going and looking at what they're not doing instead of trying to outdo them on what they are doing. I'm telling you, there's definitely things not doing, and that's where you can stand out and gain some leverage pretty quickly, sometimes a lot faster than, um, um, you know, the time it takes to do things like rank.

>> Roberta Ndlela: So do what your competition is not doing. Words of wisdom from Scott Murray, who's been a marketing expert for more than 20 years and is specializing in content creation. This is very eye opening, but even more so, I think that, as you said, marketing is a moving target. So the most important message from today, I think, is that we just need to keep evolving.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. Because consumers are, they've already changed the rules two or three times, four or five times. One quick word about the competition. I'll tell you something. Um, from this book, the most amazing marketing book ever, one of the examples I use for how consumers have changed the game. You know, we were just talking about obsession with the competition, right? Uh uh. Which has been a long standing marketing thing. Right. What are they doing? Uh uh. Well, the consumer a doesn't care about your rivalry with the competition. In fact, they would prefer to see you be nice to your competition. You want to talk about communication? So there was this study done that I highlighted in the book where they decided to take a couple of candy bar names and create fake tweets. And what they did was they had one share a tweet that said, hey, start your day with our treat. It's really good. And then the other one actually popped up and said, hey, we just want to congratulate these folks over here. Our competition, for being in business for now, 25 years. And by the way, their candy bar is delicious. Well, based on the study, the candy bar that actually complemented the competition ended up getting, like a 30% increase in candy sales. The other side did not see any boost, despite the fact that the competition called them delicious. So what does that do? First off, it ruins the automatic marketer response that if we complement our competition, and everybody's going to buy competition. Nope. Because they don't care about the rivalry. They saw warmth and humanity from that brand, and that's what made them want to buy their stuff. And the reason why they decided to do this is they noticed that when Xbox and PlayStation complimented Nintendo for the release of the switch, it just skyrocketed their engagement. So being nice to your competition these days can actually help you with sales. And that's just by showing a little humanity in your social media posts.

>> Roberta Ndlela: That's why they say collaboration is better than competition.

>> Speaker A: I like that, too.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Yeah. So being gracious actually makes you rich instead of competing.

>> Speaker A: You know what it reminds me of? You know, here's another pop culture reference just to shove that, uh, one more in there.

Macy's hires Santa to be Santa at their store during the holidays

So, miracle on 34th street. Have you ever seen Miracle on 34th?

>> Roberta Ndlela: I've heard of it. Not seen it, though.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, the whole premise behind a miracle on 34th street is this guy dressed as Santa is telling him he really is Santa Claus, and it just becomes this big thing on whether he really is or not. But it just so happens that Macy's hires him to be Santa at their store. So all the salespeople are like, okay. So when the kids come up, you know, make sure that you tell them that they can buy this toy from us, this toy from us, and this toy from us. So while they're there talking to Santa, they also stay and buy stuff from the store. Well, this is really Santa Claus, though. So Santa Claus, you know, he's like, I just want parents to make the kids happy. So instead of doing what they want, this kid comes up and he's like, you know, hey, I want a fire truck. And, you know, I've been looking for it everywhere, and I just really hope I get one for Christmas. And mom's like, don't say anything, because I hadn't been able to find that truck anywhere. And so Santa says, oh, yeah, you can find it at this competition. You can find it at this store over here. The mom's like, oh, okay, thanks. And meanwhile, the salespeople are like, what are you doing? What are you doing? You're telling people to go to another store to buy the toy. Well, then that mother comes up to the salesman and says, hey, are you guys in charge of having the Santa Claus, you know, tell people where to get stuff? And they're like, yes, ma'am. And look, he goes, no, no, no. Let me just tell you. I love the fact that your company is much more interested in the happiness of the customer than your own sales. So I will be a Macy's customer for life because that's what you did for me on the holidays. And I think that's a great example that could be very, very fitting today, you know, what's in it for us? And not realizing that, showing warmth and showing, really what it means to maybe take that extra step to help someone else instead of ourselves first, and how that can actually pay off without having to make the sales pitch every time.

>> Roberta Ndlela: It certainly does. And that's why most of the coaching programs that I help people do a certain thing, solve their problem. That should be the focus of this entire exercise.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. And you think about the world we live in and how divided it is, how we see stuff on social media all the time, people yelling and screaming at one another and things like that. We could really use some brands with presence online, showing humanity, showing care, showing connection, giving people something to belong to. That's a really good opportunity for business, because when you look at those stats that come out every year about how, how much people trust things like the media and politicians, those are really low on the spectrum. But businesses are still in a decent space, so take advantage of it while people still trust you at a decent rate to do things that others aren't doing. The world could use a lot of good, empathetic humanity today, and businesses can provide that through content, and we certainly.

>>Roberta Ndlela: Do need the humanity.

Scott Murray shares his thoughts on communicating on the speaking on communicating podcast

Scott, please tell us about the book and where to find you online after this conversation.

>> Speaker A: Sure. My website is scottmurrayonline, but I'm also on LinkedIn. I'm always engaging with people there, sharing content there. Uh, the book behind me here is the most amazing marketing book ever. And we, uh, called it that because it's got over 30 authors in it. So the lead author is Mark Schaefer. The other authors are from all over the world. They all did their own chapter, and each chapter is formatted exactly the same way. So it's an intro with ten takeaways. So you figure you got 30 authors, all of them sharing ten takeaways about something in marketing. So that's like 300.

>> Roberta Ndlela: 300 takeaways in one book.

>> Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. And again, mine is on how consumer, um, behavior is changing and evolving our modern marketing era. And it's on Amazon and it's got all the formats that people like.

>> Roberta Ndlela: Absolutely. We will put all of that on the show. Notes scottmarie.com thank you so much for being on the show today. You've taught us so much as especially about marketing.

>> Speaker A: I'm glad. It was a pleasure to get to talk to you and your listeners. Thank you so much for having me.

>> Roberta Ndlela: My absolute pleasure as well. Thank you for joining us on the speaking on communicating podcast. Once again, please log on to epilence, Spotify, leave us a rating and a review and what you'd like for us to discuss on the show that will be of benefit to you. We encourage you to continue to get communicating and let us know how communication skills continue to improve your life professionally and personally. And stay tuned for more episodes to come.