Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Hello, everyone, welcome to the Speaking and Communicating Podcast.

Today, I am joined by Jenay Leger.

She is a podcaster, and she has some tips and nitpicks that she's going to share with us when it comes to dating.

Now, you will admit that most of us, especially in this age of dating apps, we really struggle, of course, unless we are in long term relationships or are married.

So today, she's going to help us to navigate these dating waters.

And before I go any further, please welcome Jenay.

Hi, Jenay.

Hi, thank you so much for having me today.

I'm so glad to be here.

I'm glad that you're here.

You said that we need to talk about how communication has changed over the years due to dating apps.

What is it that we struggle with compared to previous generations when it comes to communication in dating?

It's just so different from like my parents' generation.

My parents' generation, they picked up their phone, the house phone and called, and it's just completely different now with the apps, like texting and, oh, why isn't he texting me back?

There are so many ways of communicating, which can also be not a very good thing.

There's so many options as well.

There's so many other people on it, so it can definitely be really, really hard to find your person.

Just communicating in general, like phone calls, and it's just so hard to really get someone in person.

Sometimes it's really difficult.

Communication is the biggest aspect of a real solid foundation.

I'm just really excited to get into this topic and share my experiences.

I think that like I said, because there's so many options, then we compared to our parents' generations, we no longer communicate to the other person what makes us and have what we expect.

The easiest way now is to just ghost them and move on to swiping again.

We don't actually sit down and wear things out.

So how can we go past that?

How can we, instead of just thinking we're just going to swipe, swipe for the rest of the lives, how can we go past that, learn to communicate and express and let the other person understand where we're coming from?

Yeah, so ghosting, it's frustrating.

I think if you are talking to someone, maybe you went on a few dates with someone and you're not really getting a response.

You're like, why are they ghosting me?

I think it's very rude and just so inconsiderate when someone ghosts you.

I feel like if you haven't met yet, it's not really technically considered ghosting.

I think if you have been on a date at least one date and you get ghosted, it's fair to say, just let me know if you want to continue this or if not, that's totally fine.

But I think just communicating and letting that person have the right to, you know, respond back and just say, I really liked you, but I don't see this moving forward.

So many people just ghost because it's easy, it's easier to just ignore them than tell them how they feel.

And here's the problem with that, if he ghosts and I keep messaging and saying, hey, what happened?

We were on a date, it seemed to go well, and now you've ghosted me.

Why aren't you responding to my messages?

I am called desperate, pick me crazy.

So a lot of women as well then become afraid to even ask what happened because you don't want to be seen or perceived as those things.

You have been ghosted and now there's something under this past year, which is called love bombing.

Have you heard of that?

Yes, love bombing.

I actually had the experience first before I heard of the term.

And when I was talking to a friend of mine, she said, friend, you were love bombed.

What are you talking about?

What exactly is love bombing?

It's so horrible.

But it's basically when someone is so aggressively like messaging you and sending you a bunch of text messages, just blowing you up, being overly, almost like an obsession, right?

And just very all up in your room.

Every like two days, it took me out to dinner.

Right, dinners a lot and just maybe even hanging out a bunch, just really all upon you.

And then all of a sudden, they just cut you off.

Just nothing.

Right?

How does it go from that high to ghosting?

Without even telling me goodbye, it's not a match.

I think a big aspect of it is they get so excited that they're talking to you and they're like on this love high of being so happy they're talking to someone.

And I think it's almost like the honeymoon stage.

They either find someone else to talk to and repeat with the next person.

I think a lot of people do that.

Or they figure that they might not be interested anymore, and they literally just move on.

And I think it's completely fine.

But why not let me know?

And more than anything, it sounds to me like you're saying they always have this adrenaline rush of meeting a new person.

Right.

So it's not about you.

It's just something that they keep feeding inside of them.

They must always meet a new person, fill the new butterflies every time.

Exactly.

That's just how they conduct themselves.

Anybody who's going through these frustrations, what is it that you need to look out for, that you can look out for, in order to avoid potential ghosting or potential love bombing?

The love bombing, if you notice that they're really like going a little too fast, first when you're first getting to know each other, I think that's something to be very cognizant about.

Maybe throw a little red flag in your head of, but they're being a little too much.

And really just be aware, be super aware of all of these things that are happening.

And maybe some things are like a yellow flag, like a cautious, but not a red flag.

And just keep those in your head.

And I also think you can give someone a chance if you go on a few dates or even one or two dates and you're like, you know what, I really don't see this moving forward.

They don't want the same thing I want.

We don't vibe, we don't connect.

Just tell them, you know, I don't think it's working out for me.

As far as ghosting, if I messaged someone maybe twice and they didn't answer, I would just be like, all right, I'm done trying.

You don't want to waste your time, and they're clearly not answering, and it's just disrespectful, but you deserve better.

I've seen in the movies when somebody was ghosted and the best friend would say, oh, maybe he got arrested, maybe he got hit by a car.

Like we try to make up these stories, too.

But all he really did was ghost.

Because I remember my brother's generation growing up, we're in our 40s now, so when he was growing up, our parents used to say to them, it's not good to dump a lady.

Don't dump a woman that's mean and cruel.

So what they did was they would either ignore you or do something that is unbecoming.

The behavior will change, not in a positive way, so that you, the lady, would be fed up and say, you know what, I'm done.

So you dump them because they were told you must never dump a lady.

That just makes you the worst male person ever.

So do you think sometimes ghosting comes from that to avoid dumping the woman?

Maybe.

I think that could be a total possibility because I know a lot of people don't like confrontation, that bad energy.

I think a lot of the times as people get nervous to her other people's feelings, like I don't want to tell this girl, like I'm not into her.

But in reality, I think most would just rather just have a text.

I don't think that this is going to work out, but I wish you all the best.

Like it can be short, sweet.

That would be so much better.

What are other things that a person can look out for if the guy cancels on you, you were going to have a date and, oh, I got caught up at work.

If it happens the first time, is that a red flag or he really was caught up at work?

Just give him another chance.

So it's funny you asked this, I ran into this so much before I met my boyfriend.

I literally had dates lined up.

I got ditched so many times and I was just like, what is the point?

Why are we going to do this?

So my rule is if they cancel once, make a new plan.

If you continue to talk and you still want to meet, make a second plan.

If they cancel a second time, all right.

I give them one shot and two, I guess you could say, but that's fair, I think.

Because I think we're trying to be careful of having one mishap and giving up too soon, which could have been potentially a good relationship in the long run, but also not being played that many times.

Exactly.

You can see the red flags coming, yes.

So sometimes the tricky balance between, am I giving up too soon?

Am I red flagging something was not a red flag?

Because life does happen.

Right, 100%.

When you are navigating these dating spaces, what else should you look out for?

I would say definitely look out for patterns changing.

I think that's something I'm always very aware of when I'm talking with someone new.

You know, if you're talking consistently and then you don't hear from him for, you know, a couple days and then all of a sudden he's texting you up the yin-yang.

And I think just watching the patterns calls you every night.

And then all of a sudden he didn't call you.

And you can just be aware of it.

Do you tell him or do you ask and say, Oh, you used to call me every day for the last two months.

What happened in the last two days?

Oh, are you going to be desperate and pick me on these negative things you get called?

Because that's what we try to be careful of as well.

It depends on the guy too.

Because, you know, they might be like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.

Like I was up to dinner with the family and I completely forgot to call you.

But maybe we texted you.

Just some type of communication, I think.

Other things to look out for would just be, you know, if he's being honest with you, if he's saying he has a work trip, but he's really going to see another girl.

Just the honesty, obviously, is a huge factor.

The consistency, I think, is so key.

Don't get catfished.

That's never a fun time.

Make sure the person you're going out on a date with is the person that they look like their photos.

That's why it's met in public the first few dates.

Especially since COVID, there's always been these excuses of, oh, we cannot go anywhere.

Everything is closed.

Everything is on lockdown.

You can walk around your neighborhood.

You can walk around the park.

That wasn't on lockdown.

There's always something you can do, for sure.

And I just think having your life goals and always on the top of your mind, because when you are going on dates, you want to make sure that your life goals align with theirs.

And so think about yourself too and say, could this person be into my life?

Will their lifestyle match mine?

Maybe you don't want someone that works nights.

That's your time that you really enjoy and you want to spend time with them.

So maybe don't date someone that has a nighttime job.

If they have a job that requires them to work at night.

Some people like the outdoor stuff and you might be an indoor girl.

Yes.

Hobbies.

That is a big one too.

Make sure you don't have to do every single thing.

And I think it's healthy to have different hobbies in some cases, but make sure you're not like you were saying, oh, I love hiking.

And you're like, I would never go on a hike.

Some like to just stay home, Netflix and chill.

But for you, the minute you wake up, even if it's not a work day, you have to get out of the house.

You just don't like being at home.

Some people really are like that.

And that's what brings joy.

So if you have those two extremes, they might not gel.

Yeah, that's a good one for sure.

I've heard of the phrase, you are what you attract.

What do you think of that?

That's an interesting one.

So I think that if you're content in yourself, if you're confident, if you're exuberant and you have this great energy around you, and you're meeting new people, I really think that that will vibe off.

And I think other people will be attracted to you.

And I think more of a low-key person, and maybe you're not as outgoing, and you're more of a shy person.

You might attract someone.

That's kind of in that realm as well.

Like another shy, reserved person, you know what I mean?

Introverted.

Introverted, yeah.

It's because I'm super extroverted.

So like I had to date someone that was also extroverted.

And I just, when I met my boyfriend, I was like, I knew, like, okay, this is gonna work.

That's interesting because sometimes I hear what you're saying and agree to a certain extent, but sometimes they say, have you seen those married couples where the husband might be the introvert and the wife is the talkative one, or the husband is always talking and the wife is the more reserved, feminine lady-like one.

You can see that they have great chemistry, but there's this complimenting each other due to those things in the personalities being pulled over.

Sometimes it could work, but I think we need to be careful not for it to be too extremes.

Yeah, sorry, carry on.

Oh, I was just saying sometimes opposites do attract, but I think like exactly what you're saying, it has to kind of like balance each other out.

Like maybe one person is just like super bubbly and they're totally fine with that, but their partner is kind of more reserved and likes to just kind of sit and hang out.

But they're fine with their partner going to talk to everyone.

I think the balance of that and like making sure that both parties are fine with what the other one's doing, I think.

And then what about, so now that we've established that this generation struggles with communication, one thing that has come to mind for me is the vulnerability aspect.

I think more than anything, we're just afraid.

We've been hurt, we've been ghosted, we've been love bombed.

What is it that we can still do to open up again, to communicate, risking being ghosted, love bombed, hurt?

Sometimes you would hear stories of where a couple was dating, a particular celebrity couple, and the wife was talking about this, and I won't mention names, but she said they had been in a lot of relationships.

So she broke up with her now husband that were dating at the time.

They broke up.

He went on to date someone else, and she actually wrote a letter and cried in front of him and said, you hurt me.

I thought this was going to be us.

And she really poured her heart out.

I remember the first time hearing the story, I'm like, I could never do that.

She's so brave.

I could never let a guy see me and how much he hurt me to that extent, which funny enough, when he tells the story, he wasn't aware first of all of how much he hurt her.

And her opening up to him like that touched something in him.

I don't know how to describe it, and made him see things differently.

And that's why today they are now married.

Interesting, wow.

To go to that extent, I think a lot of us, me included, I'm so scared of going to that extent if we are still just dating.

But for her to be that courageous, to be that vulnerable is what made him realize that this is the kind of woman I want in my life.

She's that real, her heart is that open, but it being that open, it's open to hurt as well.

It could have gone either way.

We open up ourselves again and let you cast that magic.

I would say definitely vulnerability is a very, it's very, very hard and breaking down those walls.

And I think one thing to always keep in mind is love is a risk.

It really is.

There's, it sounds simple, and I know it's very, very complex, but I think if you are in a good position in yourself, you feel good, you're confident, you're ready to move on into your next relationship.

Did the work on yourself like we were talking about, loving yourself.

And I think that in both parties, of course, there is always a risk to get hurt.

And I think just really getting to know someone to the core and asking the hard questions up front and early, so you kind of know, okay, maybe this guy doesn't want to have kids and I really want to have kids, so this is not going to work out.

Or I really want to live in California.

I'm on the East Coast now, but I really want to live in California one day.

And this guy is like, absolutely not.

I want to live in Canada.

I want to live in snow.

Right, like that's just not going to work.

So I think as hard as it is, sometimes you might have to have the tough conversations about getting to know someone.

What are your life goals?

And getting down to the big, big aspects of life.

But also I think another layer of this is sharing only what you feel comfortable with, right?

Like you might not share like some deep stuff in the first couple of dates if you continue to get to know someone and they're accepting and open to you expressing these things about yourself, but they should also do the same.

They should be telling you stories about it may be something traumatic that they went through and kind of share.

Right, matching.

And I think a big red flag would be if you keep sharing some things and they're not.

He barely says anything.

Oh, that's small talk.

Right, understanding that they do something or say something and it rubs you the wrong way or upsets you or maybe is disrespectful.

I think sharing that right away.

If something is that is said, you're gonna nip it in the bud right away because then they're gonna continue that.

If you don't tell them.

No one's a mind reader.

You have to tell men sometimes, hey, that really hurt my feelings.

Or when you-

I think the reason we don't or we are afraid to is we're either gonna be called crazy or we are afraid to chase them away.

I know some of my friends, if they feel like they've spoken too soon, it's too early in the dating relationship.

If they upfront ask the tough questions, they feel like he's gonna be driven away.

He's gonna think I'm too, it's a lot too early, too soon.

Nobody seems to know the right balance.

No, I agree.

As long as you lay out what you want and see what they want, take it slow and just really take it day by day, as hard as that sometimes is, and just share what you're comfortable with.

I would say that's a big one.

Don't over share too soon, but definitely share those big life things that you want.

So what are the two key things that make the relationship work and stays long term?

I would say loyalty and honesty.

Loyalty and honesty, okay.

Okay, hence being that vulnerable.

I think that's the honesty part.

And therefore, just before we conclude and ask for your social media handles, what's the last thing that you want, especially women, because I'm speaking for a woman's point of view, and a lot of my friends are in the same position.

What is the one thing you want for them when listening to this to take away?

Always stay true to yourself, I would say.

That's a huge thing.

Make sure if you are ever getting out of a relationship of any sort, make sure you have your me time and just focus on you.

Take yourself out to dinner.

Go buy yourself those flowers.

Literally have yourself and just do everything for yourself because now you'll learn so much more about yourself through all these actions.

The self-awareness, yes.

Self-awareness is unbelievable when you're just alone and single and can really focus all your energy on yourself, not anyone else.

And give yourself grace, like learn to love yourself, try new things.

You never know who you're gonna meet or if you're invited to events, I should say.

Whether that be birthday parties or anything, like going out to dinner with your friend.

I think saying yes to those things because you never know who you're gonna meet, right?

And also let other people know, people you're close with, hey, I'm single, let me know if you have any guys out there that you could hook me up with.

Like I think your friends and family will know you the best.

And so letting everyone know, hey, just be aware and let everyone know what you're looking for.

I think that that's the best.

Despite all the hurt, the ghosting and the love bombing, get back in the ring.

Yes, absolutely.

And enjoy the process.

I think that's the most important one.

Just enjoy the process.

Just enjoy the journey.

Jenay Leger, before you close, we wanna hear all your social media handles so we know where to find you for more dating advice.

Yes, so you can find me on my podcast Instagram, it's My Naked Mindset, and then personal Instagram is JazzyJenayMay, at JazzyJenayMay, M-A-Y, that's my middle name.

And Jenay is spelled J-E-N-A-Y, right?

Yes.

On Instagram.

Thank you so much for the much needed dating advice, Jenay.

We are going to go back to the ring, despite being ghosted, love bombed, hurt.

Just let those go and enjoy the process, because at the end of the day, it still is an enjoyable process.

Thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you so much for having me.