Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Communication and leadership are crucial for your career growth and leadership development

>> Roberta Ndlela: Welcome back to the speaking and communicating podcast. I am your host, Roberta Ndlela.

If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are, uh, crucial for your career growth and leadership development. And speaking of leadership, this exciting month of April, we have a special leadership series where every single guest will be a leadership coach, a leader in their own organization, and they will be helping us become better leaders ourselves. And to top it off, we have three episodes per week instead of the usual two. We will be publishing three episodes per week, Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, instead of the usual two episodes a week in this special leadership series in April. So stay tuned, become a better leader, and log on to Apple and Spotify to give us a rating and a review. And let's get communicating.

Carlos Davidovich talks to Roberta about the five brain leadership

>> Speaker B: Now let's get communicating with medical doctor TEDx, speaker, executive, one coach, and neuromanagement expert Carlos Davidovich. He's here to talk to us about the five brain leadership. And yet you were here thinking you only have one brain. Before I go any further, please help me welcome him to the show. Hi, Carlos.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Hi, Roberta. Thanks a lot for the invitation. I'm delighted to be here in the show.

>> Speaker B: Thank you for being here. I'm excited as well.

Neuromanagement is a blending of business and neuroscience

Welcome, and please tell us a little bit about yourself.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Okay, just in a nutshell, I mean, born and raised in Argentina, I'm MD, and I was working as a medical doctor for many years. Then I also was working in pharmaceutical business, biotechnology. Quite niche. And in one moment, I decided to move to Europe and had to reinvent it myself. I ended working in what I'm doing today. So, uh, working in an area quite specific that is called. There is no other word called neuromanagement. That, in few words, is how to bring all the practical tips, how the brain works in organizations and business, and that's what I do. So I try to bridge these two worlds from science without being so scientific and, um, with human behavior, mainly in organizations, in the way we connect and we talk to each other, in the way we communicate with each other.

>> Speaker B: It's your topic, neuro, um, management. So we've heard neuroscience, behavioral science. So now you combine those two. How did you put those two worlds together, basically?

>> Carlos Davidovich: Well, to be honest, I didn't invent it. The word was invented 2006 in Korea, to be honest, by a professor in the university. And he was the one that found out that there was the only way to find a word that was connecting the two word, uh, business and neuroscience. I took it because I thought it was a good idea and applies differently. I mean, it's not just, uh, leadership, it's also marketing. And its economy is neuro economy, neuromarketing, and neuro leadership. That's the three pillars of neuro management.

>> Speaker B: It's interesting, you mentioned Korea was there for a decade teaching English.

>> Carlos Davidovich: I know that. I read about you. Oh, my God.

>> Speaker B: Yes. Everything is so texas scientific. Everything is an app, everything is automated. It's the most amazing place to live it. Uh, yeah.

One of your goals is to help companies build great relationships

So let's talk, first of all about you say that one of your goals is to help us build great relationships.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Yeah.

>> Speaker B: So when you talk about marketing teams, leadership, everything, all of that includes being in a relationship, whether with a customer.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Absolutely.

>> Speaker B: Even personally. So how does neuro management work? Or how can we apply the science behind that in order to better our relationships?

>> Carlos Davidovich: In this point in particular, and you already mentioned the five brains. What I want, uh, was just a framework, a model I like to use to give a clear example of the different characters that we have inside. We are not one person, to be honest. We have different voices inside and depends which one is in charge, is how we will connect with others. So what I want to, the model of the five brains is just to, in a very practical way, to understand the different components of our personality. Instinct, intuition, emotions and rationale. Yeah. And, uh, we have more than one emotional brain. That's the point also to understand that as a human being, we are mainly emotional beings. We like it or not, we accept it or not. I mean, human brain is not prepared to make a hundred percent rational decision. So the switch to make a decision in human brain is physically located in the emotional brain. Therefore, our decisions are always influenced or affected by some kind of emotions. And that is the way that we connect with others. So communication implies many things. I know that you are an expert on this, so I will not get into your territory.

>> Speaker B: No, please, you need to.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Communication is not to be the best version of myself. Communication is my capacity to speak your language. So communication is about the other person. It's not about me. If I want to communicate with someone, I will find the way that communication is going to happen. To give you a very practical example, Roberta, if I will. I want to be the best version of Carlos. With words, with sentences, with quotes, with jokes. I only will speak Spanish. That's my language.

>> Speaker B: Right.

>> Carlos Davidovich: But communication will be zero. I will feel great. But what for? So communication is not about me. Never is about me. It's about us. It's about the other person. It's about how can I bring bridges in the way the other person will understand what I want to say. Also, m we need to understand because this is a very important component. My intent in my communication, not necessary, is aligned with the impact on others. So all the time, my goal is to be aware, uh, attentive of, uh, what's going on with the other person. But it's not the same to communicate from my rational brain, from my emotional brain, or from my instinctual brain. This is a classical, I will say, even though there are a lot of discussion in science, if it's right, it's wrong. I really don't care about that. I still think that the triune model dividing the reptilian brain, very old, the emotional brain that we inherited from big mammals and the rational brain is still valid. Now, there is a new theory. We talk about the adaptive brain. Always the brain was adaptive, that's no doubt. I mean, we always adapt ourselves to the circumstances so one, it doesn't discharge the other one. The only thing I want to say is, let's learn first how to communicate or how to lead. My internal team, my internal team has five members, let's say the five brains, right? And depends which one is talking, is how the conversation is going to follow and if I will arrive to a good outcome or not. If my reptilian brain, my instinctual brain, is in charge, there is no agreement. There will not be agreement. Is I win or lose, period, is a zero sum game. And you can see this also outside, you can see this when people communicate with each other, who is talking, I mean, who is talking in that communication, where that sentence is coming from. As a human being, we are very clever. We can try to, let's say, to show ourselves as very rational, but not necessarily is rationality. What is behind my thoughts many times is that instinctual brain, in another word, I want to win. I don't want that you will be better than me or whatever that will be in charge. And I will try to justify my instinctual reaction. Makes sense what I'm saying. So communication is about understanding languages and to learn how those languages, what is the narrative of each of them at the moment attentive to this is very simple. To catch up what brain is talking and how people are connected among them. So to take the communication to the highest level, it's important to know what is the real intent behind, right.

>> Speaker B: The real intent, which is then you understanding how to communicate with the other person. The example that you give of the language, you speaking Spanish and mean or understanding Spanish is, like, an obvious example of communicating the language I understand because it's that literal that when people are speaking the same, both speaking English or both speaking Spanish, what they want to understand is how do I communicate in the same language to Carlos, so that they call it the platinum rule, so that I communicate in the way he wants to be communicated to. How do I structure my lingo, how do I. My tone, everything so that he doesn't have a barrier up or is defensive or. You know what I mean? Those things that people suddenly. That instinctual part you're talking about suddenly kicks in.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Absolutely, absolutely. And, uh, you talk about something that, uh, for me, is like a mantra. The platinum rule, let's stop projecting ourselves on others. Why? The other person will like what I like or will want what I want. No, no, no. I need to be attentive. What they want.

>> Speaker B: Right.

>> Carlos Davidovich: That is the secret. That's, again, Roberta, you are, let's say, confirming what I said before. Communication is not about me. Communication is about the other and how I can really connect with the tone of voice, with my body language, with the words I'm using, even though speaking the same language. And you know better than me, Roberta, uh, we don't give the same meaning to the same words in the same language.

>> Speaker B: In the same language. And you can tell me and my friend here the exact same thing, and we're going to interpret it differently.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Absolutely. It's so crucial that one of the things I coach, that's my work, coaching mainly people, leading people. Let's call it like this, because leaders are quite high work, important.

Roberta: The human brain is quite complex in communication

What I'm trying to say is, many times they tell me they are mad because the team didn't respond in the way they wanted, you know? Okay, did you explain what you want properly to them? And the typical response is, I told them. And always my answer is, so what.

>> Speaker B: I told them means, hey, Carlos, I communicated.

>> Carlos Davidovich: And, um, the answer is absolutely no. And then my next question is, what did you do to confirm that that person understood what he wants? And the answer is, 90% of the time is silence. There is no confirmation of the message. Therefore, you cannot say that you really told them because, again, intention versus impact. Because I told you doesn't mean you were listening or you understanding the way I think you will understand.

>> Speaker B: Oh, were you clear enough when you told me that I understood it the way you intended for me to understand.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Exactly. That's why it's so complex, communication. The human brain is quite complex in communication, let's say. And I know that. I'm sure you know, but the brain has something that we know through the cell phones. We talk about the auto correct function, right? I mean, when you write a word, cell phone will complete the word. How many times that completion is wrong, you know, and even it's funny or.

>> Speaker B: My name, I'm, um, Roberta. It always writes Robert. Exactly. Like a male.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Exactly. Because it's. Yeah, because it's about catalyst, you know how many the probability the brain has an auto correct function? Hundred percent of the time. What I want to say with this, our brain never, never will listen the whole story when somebody's talking to us. What the brain does is to hear the first two or three words and, um, the brain will speed up the rest of the sentence. Try to complete the sentence in my brain. That's how the brain works. So then when you ask me, Carlos, did you understand what I say? My answer would be yes, I understood. I understood when my brain was building up. Know what you told me?

>> Speaker B: Filling in the blanks the way I.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Exactly. The brain will always fill the blanks. That's what the brain does. Because the brain hates uncertainty. And another concept I like to share, Roberta, if you let me do it. Our human brain don't care about what is true, only cares what makes sense. When the brain is facing uncertainty. Something that is not clear. Somebody you're telling me is not clear. What the brain does is exactly what you said is filling the blanks. Filling the blanks with, I believe, is understandable. Nowhere you want to tell me at, uh, the moment I'm filling the blanks, the only objective my brain is that fill in the blank, that sentence will make sense. Not that will be the truth. I gave you another example, Roberta. Let me. Let me try to explain myself better. What happened. The pandemic, okay? Something that all of us, I mean, one way or the other, we suffer, right? The pandemic was the maximum expression of uncertainty. Nobody knew what's coming. Nobody knew what's happening for years, for months and years, what the brain start doing when the uncertain situation is so, is taking so long. The brain will start building stories.

>> Speaker B: Mhm.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Because needs to feel somehow calm, somehow safe. But the building stories is the origin of fake news, conspiracy theory. All the stories. Because the brain doesn't care that the story is true. The brain cares. That makes sense. Tell me if I am able to explain myself with this, because it's very important.

>> Speaker B: It makes sense. Yes, it does. It certainly does. Yes.

>> Carlos Davidovich: One of the biggest enemy of the brain is uncertainty. The brain always needs to have a plan. And the brain will build plans all the time. It doesn't matter. It's going to happen because the brain needs to feel safe having a plan. I know what to do. I know how to protect myself if the situation is uncertain. I need to build whatever story that can make me feel come.

>> Speaker B: Is this where we sort of ignore the instincts because you spoke about the five brains? We ignore the instincts or the intuition, because at that moment, if your intuition is whispering something, usually it doesn't make logical sense because intuition doesn't work with what we call facts, the stuff in front of us that the brain uses to make a conclusion or fill in the blanks. So sometimes intuition might kick in and say, roberta, go this direction. And you think that doesn't make sense right now? What are you talking about?

>> Carlos Davidovich: Intuition and instinct are, uh, two different things, right? Instinct is survival. Instinct is I need to feel safe. So only three options. Attack, to fly away or to freeze.

>> Speaker B: Mhm.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Instinct is survival. Basic instinct. Okay. Yes, survival.

Intuition is a different process. Sometimes people call it the gut feeling

Intuition is a different process. And I will follow your example. Intuition is. Sometimes people call it the gut feeling. It's an intuition. So some information comes to me that I don't know the process. I don't know how I arrived to that conclusion. Intuition is a. It looks like it comes from nowhere. That is not true. Intuition is the most sophisticated google ever.

>> Speaker B: Wow. I, uh, like that.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Intuition, more experience we have. Intuition will work better. Intuition is what happened behind the scene. So our body, in our guts, in our brain, upstairs, our, uh, body is always gathering information, information of everything that happens around us. And, um, let's say that we, we have a. Something to solve, a challenge, whatever problem, whatever. And we start thinking about, try to solve rationally, you know? So we go through processes a plus b plus c. That is a logical process. It's okay. And sometimes we are not able to find a solution. And then a friend of us will say, hey, sleep on it. Um, and let's see tomorrow what happened. It sounds magic. It's not. When we sleep, our rational brain is the main part that is sleeping. The rest of the brain will start connecting dots to find an answer and more experience. We have highest the probability that the answer will be correct. I don't want to complicate the situation. I want to make it simple.

>> Speaker B: No, this is absolutely beautiful, the way you explain that. Is that why sometimes, as you said, we sleep on it? And then you find that when you wake up in the morning, you suddenly go, huh? Huh? Now I know what I need to do with this.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Exactly. But that's no magic. It's a process. It's a process that we are not conscious of. So. But it's a very complex. I tell you, the best way to explain it is Google. It's the same thing. You write a question and in one moment, boom, you have tons of answers. And that's not magic. It's just an algorithm. Our gut brain works through an algorithm. It's exactly the same.

The most successful leaders are those able to listen and to decode properly intuition

And, um, it's interesting because, again, I work mainly with executive people, leaders and companies. Higher. The leader is in the position in the organization more understands about the power of intuition. It sounds like a counter intuitive, right? No, in my experience, and then I read research on that. The most successful leaders are, ah, those able to listen and to decode properly intuition.

>> Speaker B: This is the first time out of all our leadership discussions that we've covered that or even discussed that type of research. But to say that they tap into their intuition more, this is the first time we've heard that.

>> Carlos Davidovich: I tell you, Roberta, the typical comment when I start with the five brains, my first fear was that talking about emotions and talking about intuition, people in organization will feel I was trying to go to a touchy feely territory.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, the mushy stuff that they run.

>> Carlos Davidovich: In my experience, after, uh, many, many years, hundreds and hundreds of people, absolutely never a leader told me, I don't know what you're talking about. M the typical comment is, I don't know what you mean with intuition. I have it. I tell you what happened. My team did all the rational analysis for x situation, and they say, we need to go right. I know we need to go left, and I'm convinced that we need to go left. The problem is that they asked me why, and I don't know what to say. And then when I'm coaching them, I say, don't try to explain it, because the Alphabet is not in your gut, it's in your brain. So just wait a couple of days when the information will go there, and then you will find the why. Don't try to explain it now, and I try to confirm, please follow your intuition. I'm, um, not saying intuition is right 100% of the time, but also the rational analysis is not right 100% of the time. More sources of information, more probability to find the right solution.

>> Speaker B: Intuition sometimes does not have the logical step by step process on how it got there and how you suddenly have that thought process.

>> Carlos Davidovich: That is a problem, because we are talking about highly analytical people, analytical mind, and when they don't know the process they don't trust. I use a specific assessment, doesn't matter, but an assessment identify intuition. People that really has this gift. And it's fantastic, because when I found people highly analytical, highly intuition, that, uh, is a superpower. Mhm. If they can combine both.

>> Speaker B: So if we want to tap more into the intuition, because the logical, we use it so often, what are the strategies in order to do that? Like you said, the more experience you have with it, the more you can identify it when it says something to you.

>> Carlos Davidovich: The first step is stop questioning what you cannot understand logically, because that means it's wrong. Step number one is to believe people with high intuition. They don't have any doubt, any doubt. They just listen. The information is coming. Let's call it God feeling. I don't know exactly if that is like that, but the information that comes from nowhere, that is not nowhere, is an algorithm. What they do is exactly listening, and they already learn how to decode that information. So, step number one, I always say people are very skeptical. I say, okay, just give me a favor for a while. That information that comes from nowhere, write it down, don't follow it. Just write it down. And then let's see what happens when you solve XYZ situation. And, uh, what happened in the short term, they start connecting dots after. Because, Roberta, you said, I don't know where this information came from. That sounds logical. It doesn't sound logical because we cannot see the big picture. M but certain part of our brains, different brains, they can see better than us, let's say, better than our conscience mind. Okay.

>> Speaker B: Our limited knowledge of the situation at the time period.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Exactly. Bingo. Correct.

>> Speaker B: And so we need to write it down and see what happens when we act on it. And also going back to the logical brain, like you said, it's here to protect us when a situation is stressful or we are panicky about something. Is there a way to calm down and not immediately give in to that survival instinct mode and find a way to see if that intuition can kick in at that point?

>> Carlos Davidovich: It's a fantastic point, Roberta. That depends on the level of self awareness. What I try to work with my coaches is, I said, in a funny way, I will teach you languages. Uh, you will learn different languages. At the moment, they can understand that what part of themselves is talking, then they can decide what to follow and what not. And when people are panicking, survival mode. There's no other way. But some people can control the panic attack, let's say. And then they can say, no, no, no. This is not correct. Let's wait until I'm out of this emergency mode. Because always the emergency mode is quite limited. It's just run away, fight back, or freeze period.

>> Speaker B: Hm.

>> Carlos Davidovich: So it's very, very narrow minded. If I can control myself and not decide on the spot based on that, then I will have more resources to solve whatever situation. But I need to wait.

>> Speaker B: So don't make life changing decisions while in that mode.

>> Carlos Davidovich: That. Bingo. That's it. Uh, I tell you one more secret of the brain.

>> Speaker B: Please do.

>> Carlos Davidovich: The information that we receive from outside affects, uh, all the brain will, uh, reach the five brains with slight detail of difference nuances. The brain that receives the information first is the reptilian brain, the instinctual brain. There is a delay that reaches the emotional brain. And, um, there is a delay to reach the rational brain. Why is very simple. If there is a fire in a place that you are, the reptilian brain, or the instinctual brain will catch it and, ah, you just run away. That's what you need to do. Of course. But if you can wait, let's say when you are in panic mode, the information will get the emotional and the rational brain. And then you will have the possibility to work with all the brains together. That's the best way to lead your internal team.

>> Speaker B: Makes sense. Work with all the brains together.

With a positive emotion, the rational brain works the best

Yeah, because they all serve a purpose. I know sometimes when we talk about the instinctual brain, we think, oh, no, I wish the other brain was more active. So, no, that's not what this is about. So make them all work together.

>> Carlos Davidovich: The secret is being able to put myself in a positive emotion. Positive emotions doesn't mean everything is okay. Um, that is not to be positive. That to be, let's say, could be in denial. Being positive means I will try to solve whatever happened as many times as I need it. So this is called the growth mindset attitude.

>> Speaker B: Mhm.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Being positive is okay. I have this challenge. I will do something. I will try something. With a positive emotion is when the rational brain works the best. Because the positive emotion release one. Doesn't matter. Neurotransmitter called dopamine. And dopamine activates the rational center of learning and the rational center of problem solving. So when I can stay in a positive emotional state, I can leverage better the rational brain. That of course, is the one, is very powerful. The rational brain.

>> Speaker B: Yeah.

>> Carlos Davidovich: It is the problem that is too slow. We need to give, um, it time.

>> Speaker B: Right. Even if things don't go well, you try to be in a positive emotional state. Remember, earlier, we were talking about how it fills in the blanks. It makes up a story. So if emotionally you feel okay and positive, it will likely fill in the blanks with a good story. But if emotionally you're a wreck and you allow yourself to be a wreck, it will then start to justify that by filling in with a bad story to justify your feelings at that time.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Yeah, that is totally right. Depends where you are is how you will fill the blanks. Exactly.

>> Speaker B: That way, no matter what the circumstances, try and feel emotionally positive. And then earlier, Carlos, you were talking about how the rational brain also absorbs all the information, everything around us, and it absorbs.

Being in the present is the most productive way of being

Can you talk to us more about being present, being mentally present? Because a lot of the time, we have so much going on in our brains that we don't even pay attention to our surroundings. We don't smell whatever is around us. We don't even realize, uh, I don't even realize I'm touching this pen. You know what I mean? I'm not thinking about the fact that that's what I'm doing right now. What is the impact of that?

>> Carlos Davidovich: I will bring another component to explain this because it's very practical as well. I will talk about anxiety, to be anxious. You know, anxiety.

>> Speaker B: Okay. Yes.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Sorry for my Spanish, but it's.

>> Speaker B: No, that's okay. Don't apologize. Yes, go ahead.

>> Carlos Davidovich: So anxiety has one characteristic that we didn't know. When I can keep myself in a present time. Exactly what you said. I'm closing the door for anxiety. There's no way to be anxious in the present time. The door to let anxiety get in is when I'm thinking in a negative way about the past or in a negative way about the future. Those are the way to open the gates to anxiety. Going back to your question or your comment, being in the present is the most productive way of being. Have you heard about the state of flow? Right?

>> Speaker B: Yeah.

>> Carlos Davidovich: The state of flow is being in the present hundred percent here. When I can keep myself hundred percent here is when I can leverage the best, all my capacity. This is easier to say than to do because the brain goes to the past, goes to the future. I'm anxious because something has happened that, uh, I'm not prepared. Something happened in the past that was not correct. So what I'm trying to say is all these fashion today in a positive way. I'm saying about mindfulness. I guess you heard about mindfulness. Now they came to the mainstreaming organization. Mindfulness has one objective, is to teach you five techniques how to be in the present time. That's it.

>> Speaker B: Right.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Because they already learned. It's a very old. Comes from a very old tradition, a buddhist tradition, a specific meditation that being in the present is when we really, really can be our best self regarding productivity, regarding effectiveness, regarding connection. So I just confirming what you said, training myself to be in the present is gold if I can. Uh, but I need to train myself because not easy, especially lately with so.

>> Speaker B: Much going on and things that we feel like we have to juggle.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Absolutely.

>> Speaker B: It's an actual exercise. You need to put in the energy effort to be mentally present where you are physically.

>> Carlos Davidovich: And you're right. We start acting automatically and, ah, doing whatever without thinking. It's not always useful.

Most successful leaders higher up in organizations use intuition, you say

>> Speaker B: Now, m that we've learned from you that the most successful leaders higher up in organizations, they use intuition. What are your last words of wisdom regarding that? If any leaders are listening in the.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Pyramid of leadership, let's say at, uh, the top, there are two components they cannot escape from. Number one, they will never have the whole information about to solve whatever situation, because the amount of information is endless. And, um, leaders, not necessarily. They know about everything, so you will never have the whole information. And second, you will never have enough. At the moment that time and information is not there in the ideal way. The only thing that you can do is to rely on, uh, all your power, inner powers, on all your insights and all the sources that you can get information from. Your people, of course. But insight is your intuition, your rational thinking, your experience.

Today we talk about the AQ, or adaptability quotient

If I will say something, I will apply one concept that today is slowly coming to the mainstream called the new cue.

>> Speaker B: Please explain that.

>> Carlos Davidovich: We, ah, know the IQ. So about intelligence, we know the EQ, about emotional connection. Today we talk about the AQ, or adaptability quotient is. No, resilience is more than resilience. It's how I can change to grow, not only to adapt myself. Adaptability quotient is one of the workshops I gave as one of the most requested, because it's quite new. But the only thing I want to comment, Roberta, is the key component of adaptability. Caution. The key parameter is our capacity to.

>> Speaker B: Unlearn, which means the stuff we've programmed ourselves before. To let some of that go.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Absolutely. Because what was useful in the past, not necessarily useful in the future. The person that created this concept, he says, be aware that your past success will not interfere in your future success.

>> Speaker B: You don't use that to predict what the future is going to be.

>> Carlos Davidovich: No, you already said it. I mean, life is so unpredictable. And, um, everything is about a vuca world, you know, volatile and certain, you know, ambiguous. Um, and all this stuff that we need to be prepared for that not to pretend or expect that I will know what to do because that is wrong. I need to know how to learn and to let go things that are not useful anymore. When I give a talk, a lecture on coach, my magical question is, okay, what are you going to unlearn, uh, today? And of course they get confused, you know, or no, what do you need to unlearn now? Because everybody thinks that is having more and more and more. No, no, no.

>> Speaker B: Make, it seems go. Especially since the pandemic. There's so much we've had to unlearn, uh, to adapt to.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Yeah, yeah.

>> Speaker B: So, yes, what do you need to unlearn today? Words of wisdom from Carlos Davidovich, the medical doctor turned executive leadership code and neuro management expert. This has been so educational. So much to digest. Thank you so much, Carlos, for being here today.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Thanks for your invitation, Roberto, it was really a pleasure.

>> Speaker B: My absolute pleasure as well. And before you go, please tell us where we can find you online. Okay.

>> Carlos Davidovich: LinkedIn. I put Carlos Davidovich is on my profile and I have a website that is. Carlos davidovich.com is the easiest way.

>> Speaker B: Exactly. Very easy. Carlos davidovich.com.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Exactly.

>> Speaker B: Yes. And I will put that on the show notes. It's going to be very easy to find.

>> Carlos Davidovich: Thanks a lot again. You're welcome.

>> Speaker B: It is my pleasure. Thank you for accepting the invitation. Thank you for joining us on the speaking on communicating podcast. Once again, please log on to Apple and Spotify, leave us a rating and a review and what you'd like for us to discuss on the show that will be of benefit to you. We encourage you to continue to get communicating and let us know how communication skills continue to improve your life professionally and personally. And stay tuned for more episodes to come.