Speaking and Communicating Podcast

>> Speaker A: We may shut down these parts of ourselves, these important parts of ourselves, and then we learn that we can only be accepted if we're nice or if we're getting good grades or if we're performing well at work. That's how I get accepted. That's how I get love.

>> Speaker B: Welcome back to the speaking and communicating podcast. I am your host, Roberta and Leila. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. We are currently looking for professionals or entrepreneurs who would be willing to discuss their communication challenges on this show. All the details of booking a spot.

>> Speaker C: With me are found on the show.

>> Speaker B: Notes, and by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review.

Noel Clunes is the founder of Volition Counseling

Now, let's get communicating.

>> Speaker C: Now, let's get communicating with Noel Clunes all the way from Utah. Hi, Noel.

>> Speaker A: Hi, Roberta. Great to be here with you.

>> Speaker C: Thank you for being here. Welcome to the show. So, Noel is the founder of Volition Counseling. Sorry, volition counseling. He helps adults, teens, families, and couples with their mental health needs and so much more that we'll talk about on this episode. So welcome. Tell us a little bit where you are and how it is there.

>> Speaker A: Thank you very much. Great to be here with you. And it's, uh, not a surprise that you, Roberta, are doing what you're doing and doing it so well and connecting with so many people. Um, I'm glad to be one of the people you're connecting with. So what I do is, I'm a clinical mental health counselor here in Utah, in, uh, the Salt Lake city area. And as mentioned, I work with, uh, adults, teenagers, their families. It's been interesting with COVID and kind of the shift that Covid has made and how it's exposed some mental health vulnerabilities or needs that we, as people have. And so I'm working with a lot of individuals and families, trying to help them move through things with their mental health so that they can grow as human beings, but also be better and do better and get their own needs met in relationships as well.

>> Speaker C: Let me just clarify for our listeners when you said you're not surprised by what I do. Nola is an old friend. We met 20 years ago, I think, in South Africa.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, about 20 years ago. Yeah.

>> Speaker C: Right. So that's why, in case someone is wondering why you made that comment. And thank you, by the way. Yes. Mental health, especially since COVID When did you start your work through volition counseling.

>> Speaker A: I started volition in, uh, 2015, just kind of on the side, getting my own business going and creating, uh, being able to express some of my own ideas and approach, and working again with individuals and families. And all the while I was working with primarily in, uh, long term treatment facilities, whether it's wilderness therapy or what's called residential treatment centers, where people come from all over the country and spend a decent amount of time really working on their mental health to expand and to grow in the areas that they need to grow in in order to kind of move forward well in their lives. So that was more intensive. And now I've gone fully to focusing on volition counseling, but also know retreats from time to time, typically like a five day retreat here in the mountains of Utah, near Park City. And so I do those from time to time as well. So it's nice getting a little bit of a different forum. Yes, getting into the therapeutic depths in both arenas, so to speak. But it's a little bit different being with someone for many hours of the day, for five days, or a group of people, versus typically working with someone once a week in therapy. So each one have their value, and I like a little variety in my life. So mixing that up here and there.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. Here's the thing about mental health, and I hope I'm not sounding ignorant if you say I feel that I have a mental health challenge right now before it obviously gets worse. And it's so apparent. What, uh, are some of the signs a person starts to experience, or how do you start to feel when you think something is not okay for me mentally?

>> Speaker A: Mhm, great question, and I'm with you, as in getting ahead of it. If we wait till something is full blown, then that's a pretty difficult time to begin working on it. And so seeing the early signs can be very valuable. Some of the early signs are, depending on the personality, you may find yourself avoiding certain things. It may be avoiding social engagements, it may be avoiding work, it may be avoiding old hobbies that you've enjoyed. For specifically depression. People tend to feel what's called a lack of pleasure, doing things that have historically given them pleasure, like a great meal, or, uh, having a fun time at the game or the amusement park, or whatever people enjoy doing where those things that previously gave them enjoyment, they've just kind of flatlined. Like it's neutral. It used to be my favorite thing, and now it's just hum drum. That can be an additional sign. Another way we avoid speaking of the avoidance we may avoid by overworking, overdoing it, over exercising, and through that, we may be avoiding some important things that may be coming up often emotional things that may be coming up. So we distract. Right. We avoid, through distraction, overworking, over exercising, over socializing, binge watching Netflix or whatever it may be. And so we don't have to or attend to that thing that is agitating us. So these are a handful of kind of the early signs for adolescents.

Parents may be concerned about their teenagers, how they're doing

If I can touch upon that.

>> Speaker C: Yes.

>> Speaker A: Please know, for all the parents out there, they may be concerned about their teenagers, how they're doing, what's going on. I mean, you can look at a number of things. One is you may notice a drastic change in friendships. All the friends you used to hang out with, you're not hanging out with them anymore and you're hanging out with a new group, or you're spending a lot of time at home, which for teenagers developmentally, their world should be expanding, right. Including and especially socially. Right. Expanding and friendships and relationships with romantic potential. Adolescence is this time of expansion. And so if they're spending a lot of time at home, hunkered down, perhaps on their phones, that can be a sign that they may be struggling in some way. You may notice things at school, like if they've been a strong student, they may be shakier. Uh, or getting lower marks. Yeah, grades. Right. See what I did there? I went to marks. That's a south african, but yeah, here in the US. Grades or marks? Whichever.

>> Speaker C: Both, yes.

Avoidance is an adaptation, so it's not necessarily bad

Avoidance. Does that mean every time you avoid something, it's because it's probably traumatic, it probably triggers something in you. Is that why you avoid it?

>> Speaker A: Not necessarily. Of course. We're human beings and we like some things and we dislike some things. And lending to your question, sometimes we dislike things because of a deeper, more important reason. Or maybe we like things for a deeper, more important reason. Yeah, there could be a number of things. The worst part about my job is paperwork. It's the paperwork I have to do. Right. I haven't had any traumatic experiences, really, that I can recall with paperwork, but it's just kind of the drudgery of it. And so I have some avoidance around that, but there's not necessarily anything traumatic with it. That said, certainly we can avoid things, especially thinking of it not necessarily as avoiding a specific activity, but we may avoid a certain emotional state, how we.

>> Speaker C: Feel when we do the thing we're thinking needs to be done.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And anxiety is a common emotional state with a common behavior of avoidance. We may go to social, um, anxiety, as an example. So we may go to this social event, we may go out, and we may experience some anxiety just being around people in a moderately chaotic place. And what many people do is they retreat, avoid, and then they kind of habitually avoid the distressful, uh, or anxiety inducing situation. But I'll propose that it's not necessarily the situation that is causing the anxiety. What I propose is the anxiety exists within a person because of possibly unresolved trauma, possibly different things, and it manifests, it finds a target. So it may be, oh, I'm anxious about going to class. I avoid going to class where the anxiety exists, and then it finds the target in, oh, uh, class is making me anxious. Or this social activity, or doing a chore, doing a task, doing my taxes. This is causing me to be anxious. It may be contributing in some way, but many of us have experience anxiety, and then it finds its targets. So the important thing is to perhaps take care of ourselves. Avoidance is an adaptation, so it's not necessarily bad. Right. But the important thing is to perhaps dig in and understand why we're anxious. Why am I experiencing anxiety? Of course, in these different situations, but really doing some deeper work to understand that about myself, rather than, uh, avoiding certain situations and making my world smaller and smaller, which happens, tends to happen with anxiety. The world becomes smaller and smaller. But learning to do the deeper work.

>> Speaker C: Yes. Because here's the thing about anxiety. One, as you mentioned, the different scenarios, some things we may consider not such a big deal, and then you'll have somebody being anxious about flying, which a lot of us are. I love traveling, don't get me wrong, but every time I go to the airport, there's always that little thing. But obviously it's not to the extent that you described, which some of your clients deal with. Now let's talk about how, when you realize that this has become a pattern in your life, what do you do next? When you realize it's not just that I avoid this or this triggers something in me. I've realized that it's really becoming a pattern. I need to do something about it.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, great question. That's where I invite everyone I work with to try to practice bringing a heavy dose of curiosity to their own experience. And I can unpack that a bit. Versus we often are very self, uh, critical. If we find we're habitually doing things that aren't healthy or aren't working for us, or we may feel shame around it. Uh, we're often self critical. We criticize ourselves. Oh, I'm so stupid. I'm doing the thing again. Oh, how did I get here? I'm in the same pattern. So curiosity, sincere curiosity, is the antidote to criticism or being judgmental. So if we can, uh, be curious with ourselves and say, ask sincerely, why am I in the same pattern? Perhaps what's contributing to this? How did I get here? And what may I need to work on in order to disrupt the old pattern, the old habits that I have? And of course, it helps to do that with another person. Here's a little shameless plug, like with a therapist, right where you're gaining insight, because all of us do foolish things, silly things, objectively, we all do. We all do, and we all do them for good reason. There are good, solid, understandable reasons why we do the things we do once we take the time and effort to actually understand ourselves and others. But it takes work and time in order to do that, in order to understand, why am I doing the same thing? Why am I always getting into choosing the wrong partner in a relationship? Why am I always.

>> Speaker C: Because dating. Um, sex. I'm kidding.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, there it is. There's the simple truth. Enough said.

>> Speaker C: Listen to me.

>> Speaker A: Enough said. Yeah. Or why am I always the doormat at work? Why don't I share my opinions? Why do I, uh, talk over people? Or why do I get so angry with these little things? Or whatever it may be? Those are great questions. If we come with sincere curiosity, I propose they're not great questions. If they're just criticisms wrapped in a question, but they're actually criticism.

>> Speaker C: You feel worse then. Yeah.

On your website, you write about emotional and psychological needs

On your website, you write about emotional and psychological needs. Is there a difference between the two? And then we'll get to the six psychological needs.

>> Speaker A: No, just the same thing. It can just be used interchangeably. So psychological needs, emotional needs, the same thing. I prefer psychological needs because it's more inclusive. Psychological, uh, can include mental, emotional, perhaps even spiritual needs, uh, that we may have.

>> Speaker C: And are they common no matter which part of the world you're from, no matter which culture you're from? Or are they psychological needs specific to Americans that, as a south African, I might not be familiar with or relate to?

>> Speaker A: We'll see right now if they resonate with you. But in my experience, they're very human for not just american or canadian or south african or korean or elsewhere, that these fit us as human beings. These are essential for us to function well in life and to feel as though we're doing well and possibly even thriving.

>> Speaker C: Mhm.

>> Speaker A: And so I'm happy to list these and dive in.

>> Speaker C: Yes.

Psychological needs are foundational piece for effective communication, right

>> Speaker A: Please ask you next if now is a good time. And so, as I list these and unpack these, your podcast is about speaking and communicating, right? Effectively, clearly in a variety of settings, including at work and professionally.

>> Speaker C: Hm.

>> Speaker A: And, uh, these psychological needs are kind of the foundational piece for effective communication.

>> Speaker C: Right.

>> Speaker A: So I'll list these probably several times in the next few minutes, just because repetition helps, uh, us learn.

>> Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.

>> Speaker A: So the first is understanding where I have a sense of being understood. Right. And it's a subjective sense, as in I have this inner sense where I either feel understood or misunderstood or partially understood. But the first psychological need, feeling understood. Second, feeling accepted. Third, m connection. Fourth, a sense of safety and security. Fifth, a sense of power and control. And 6th is a sense of mastery, mastery being. I sense that I'm good at some things in my own life, like, oh, I'm good at that. I have a sense of that. And also this sense that, oh, if I work at something, if I study, if I practice, I can improve. Yeah, I can do these things, I can grow at it. And so all of these are subjective within us, as in, you can tell me all day that you totally understand me as I'm speaking, but I won't truly believe you unless I sense that.

>> Speaker C: Within myself, that's with you first.

>> Speaker A: Exactly. And, uh, with these six psychological needs, we, uh, ideally meet them both personally and interpersonally. What I mean by that is going with acceptance. One of the psychological needs is acceptance. Can I practice self acceptance? Can I accept these parts of myself? Like I mentioned, avoidance, right? Repeatedly. That's one of my adaptations. One of these things I'm working on therapeutically. I have this avoidance of certain things. And so can I accept these parts of myself? Not necessarily that I agree with them or want them to stay the same, but I can accept them, right, as they are. And then, of course, to let go.

>> Speaker C: Of judgment of those things in you.

>> Speaker A: To let go of judgment. Yeah. Well said. Well said.

>> Speaker C: Okay.

>> Speaker A: And then, of course, interpersonally as well, especially by those we care about. It's like we want acceptance by those we care about. And so both personally and interpersonally, that's how we come to thrive in life and how we feel like content. And that's also how we may have on a resume. We all hear about people who are super wealthy, super well connected, super accomplished, who are maybe severely depressed or who have drug and alcohol issues or are otherwise struggling. And, uh, the place to look is, how are you doing with your psychological needs? That's essential. And so with speaking and communicating, whenever we're communicating something and making requests with our friends, our family, our coworkers, whoever it may be, foundationally, are we helping them, our teammates at work, or whoever it may be, are we helping them to feel understood? Are we helping them to feel accepted? Are we feeling connected with them? Um, do they feel safe and secure in this space and relationship? Do they sense that they have a sense of power and control, both personally and interpersonally? And then a sense of mastery. It's like, oh, you're growing. You're growing as a person and you can practice your strengths and be encouraged to do that. And so understanding, acceptance, connection, safety, security, power, control, and then mastery just to, uh, repeat.

>> Speaker C: It's funny you said that because I'm thinking, if I don't have a Lamborghini, does that mean that something is missing in my life? And should I feel like there's, of.

>> Speaker A: Course you must have a Lamborghini. I need a lambo.

>> Speaker C: And here's the interesting part about these needs. Like you said, if you think, uh, of, and I know when you're in South Africa, you went to all parts of my country just like any other country. You've got rich people, wealthy people, you've got middle class, you've got ones who are struggling. And sometimes it amazes people that people who literally have nothing materialistically are, uh, some of the happy, some of them are some of the happiest people. I mean, they may go to the city and feel like my life is missing something, but when they're back in their villages, there's that level of happiness that some of us, even city dwellers, don't experience sometimes.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And I experience know in Umlazi and Guadabeca and uh, elsewhere where people who are, what can we say, lower on.

>> Speaker C: The socioeconomic, what you consider working class in first world countries. Yes.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. But they're well connected in their communities. They're often family oriented. Their doors, uh, are often open in m a matter of speaking like, to neighbors. And with your experience, you've lived for, uh, decent periods of time in three different countries, right?

>> Speaker C: Mhm.

>> Speaker A: And uh, if I remember correctly, of course, growing up in South Africa and then South Korea and m now in the, I mean, with your experience in these countries, did you experience with the question and what you're describing, were some of these people who did not have lamborghinis or maybe who didn't have a vehicle at all? Did you see people who were getting their psychological needs met through a sense of being understood, accepted, connected, safety and security, power and control and mastery. What was their life like? How were they doing as far as their well being?

>> Speaker C: As we mentioned earlier, so I grew up in, uh, apartheid. It ended when I was 18. So the first 18 years of my life, I lived. The names that you mentioned earlier, that's what they call the township equivalent of what they call the hood in America. So the shops were very far. You needed your dad to take. To come back from work and take you guys, if you have a car, unless you take the bus, to do groceries, but the little things before the end of the month for the family, groceries, if you run out of sugar, if you run out of rice, whatever it is, beans, you take a cup and your mom says, go to the next door neighbor, and they happily, happily give you a cup of beans that your mom's going to cook for you for dinner. And then on a different day, they're going to send their kid to your house for a cup of sugar because they've run out of sugar before the end of the month, and dad gets paid and we go do groceries. So that level of connectedness, community spirit, and more than anything, there's no sense of judgment because I feel that the more materially m we achieve, there's always a lack of satisfaction with what we have. We always feel like we could have more and do more and earn more. And so if you live in that environment, you don't have that. I just got to keep doing more. I got to keep doing more.

Roberta: Acceptance of the other requires a lack of judgment

You are very quick to be content, if that makes sense.

>> Speaker A: That makes a lot of sense. And if I'm hearing you, a lack of judgment, or perhaps, in other words, acceptance of the other. Acceptance of the circumstances, acceptance that, oh, today you need a cup of beans, and then tomorrow, next week, I'll need a cup of sugar or some potatoes or whatever it may be.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. And we don't judge each other to say, you're so poor you can't afford beans. No, it's not that. We focus on different things, on different human connections during that era, rather than what do you have? Let me compete. What do you have in your house that I don't have? We did not have that. It's not even something that crossed our minds. I don't know if that makes sense because we were focused on different things. It's like, even if you go to those villages today, you know how sometimes people say, I'm going to feed the starving kids in Africa. We were not starving. And they go to those very remote villages, um, where literally it's by the border of another country. And those people are happy. They don't have much, but they're happy. You can see they're not faking the happiness, you know what I mean? And so back home, I remember when a few years ago and would hear things like this celebrity had anxiety that Hollywood person, uh, committed suicide. You know what I mean? We barely have low suicide rates. And we used to say ourselves, with all that they have, what could they be missing for them to get to that level?

>> Speaker A: That's a great question.

>> Speaker C: So it's back to what you said. These psychological needs, uh, are internal, and they start with you internally. If you don't accept yourself, no matter how much acceptance I display off you, it's not going to be received because it hasn't started with you first. You're not even going to recognize that Roberta is acting like she's accepting me, right?

>> Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well said. And if we don't accept ourselves, all our parts, all our whole selves, then, uh, we often play a role, or we put on a mask of some know, growing up male in the United States, as an example, it was not socially acceptable to show, uh, to express sadness, embarrassment, disappointment, or emotions like that. That was not socially acceptable. Do you know what was socially acceptable growing up as male in the United States? To show anger. Right? You can be angry, but if you're sad and you're crying about something or disappointed or embarrassed, there's like, don't do that. Especially in sports growing up, that's interesting.

>> Speaker C: Because sometimes anger does lead to you crying if you feel like, oh, um, I'm literally blowing up, right? Mhm.

>> Speaker A: It's, you know, males were showing anger, expressing anger was socially acceptable. But then on the other side, for girls growing up in the United States, showing anger not acceptable, like the social message was, often, you need to be nice, and being angry is not being nice. So you can be, uh, all these other emotions, but you can't be angry. And that's not accepting, not accepting the emotional state. Like, of course girls get angry, of course boys get embarrassed. But if we don't allow them to be fully expressive, we may shut down these parts of ourselves, these important parts of ourselves, and we become less whole. And then we learn that we can only be accepted if we're nice or if we're getting good grades or if we're performing well at work. That's how I get accepted. That's how I get love conditional, which is a sad message. That's a hard message. That many of us are dealing with. All of my clients have some, and I deal with well functioning people. I deal with people who are doing well at work. They're in relationships, all these things. From the outside, it looks like they're succeeding well, and they are to a great degree. And there are some deeper, more important things going on. In my opinion, that's all of us, all of us, those of us who we may appear to be doing well and all of that, we still have many things going on and to work through. And so meeting these emotional, these psychological needs, again, both personally and interpersonally, is like the game changer. Understanding our psychological needs. It's often helpful to look at the opposite. Look at the opposite with these six psychological needs. So, understanding, acceptance, connection, safety, security, power, control and mastery. What's our experience with feeling or having a sense of being misunderstood? Do we have any experiences there? What about instead of being accepted, being rejected, or being left out, or instead of connection, loneliness? Uh, I'm, um, the od one out. What are our experiences there? What are our experiences when we have not had our psychological needs met? Well, and we all have missed out at times on getting our psychological needs met? Safety and security. Have we had times where we felt very unsafe or insecure, or in danger, or power and control? Have we felt out of control or as if we're being controlled? Or the sense of powerlessness, or instead of a sense of mastery, have, uh, we had a sense of failure? Have we had a sense of chronic or ongoing failure? Like, whatever I do, it doesn't matter. No matter how hard I work, I can't budge, I can't move forward. I can't get over this hump. Looking at the opposites is very important because that's the recipe for traumatic experiences.

>> Speaker C: And that's when you actually, if you ask the right questions, you might peel the layers and start to get to the root cause.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. And again, that can be very helpful. It can often be hard to do just as an individual, although meditation and spending time in nature and sometimes prayer can be helpful with that. But if we're really going to do that work, it's often interpersonal. It's like with someone else, if nothing else, a confidant, but someone who can guide us somewhat and be curious with us and help us explore these areas and unpack these areas with acceptance, understanding and connection.

>> Speaker C: Right.

How do couples cope if one or both are struggling with internal psychological needs

Which begs the question, if those are the challenges you are having internally, how do you counsel couples when they come to you? How do they cope if one or both are struggling with the internal psychological needs we've spoken about, even if the other spouse is busy giving you that stuff, uh, trying to fulfill those needs.

>> Speaker A: With couples work, my opinion and experience couples work must have individual work. Each of them must be doing their, or have done a significant amount of individual work where they can come together as a couple and do their work, some of their work together. If they're not, uh, either somewhat mature enough or therapeutically advanced, if those terms don't sound too pretentious, um.

>> Speaker C: We fully get you.

>> Speaker A: No, if they're not therapeutically advanced enough, then the same patterns that they experience in their relationship will just, they'll experience that in the therapy office. But if they do their own work first, it can be very much complemented as they do couples work. Or to your question, that's where we can reflect and question, am I fulfilling my own psychological needs to a great degree, or am I relying fully, very heavily on this other person to fulfill all of my psychological needs? That can be a tricky kind of imbalanced situation. If I'm relying all on you, uh, to help me feel understood, accepted, connected, safe, secure power and in control, and then mastery, then that's too much responsibility for you. And that's a recipe for you to fail in some way and for me to crash and perhaps become resentful towards you because you're not fulfilling all my emotional needs again, both personally and interpersonally.

>> Speaker C: Mhm. So in a way, sorry to interrupt you. In a way, it's kind of not my spouse's job to fulfill those needs if I don't work on them myself first to feel fulfilled before they come into the equation.

>> Speaker A: Ideally, I'm working a lot, uh, on that, on my own, and then certainly having contact points. Do I want to feel understood by my significant other and accepted and connected? Of course. This is so important in relationships. And, uh, whose responsibility is it to fulfill my psychological needs? Mine. It's my responsibility to fulfill my psychological needs. And again, ideally, I'm doing that both personally and interpersonally, as in perhaps making requests. If I have something important or something heavy that I'd like to share, I may come to you and say, roberta, can I share something with you? And, uh, as I share it, will you just try to listen and understand?

>> Speaker C: Right.

>> Speaker A: That's a little request from my end, right? It's like, will you just try to understand me? It's like, will you help me fulfill at least one of my psychological needs of feeling understood? I mean, I know you're an excellent listener.

>> Speaker C: I wish, but thank you.

Let's talk about how you communicate to your spouse

And also, let's talk about how you communicate to your spouse. Because you know how sometimes you are angry by the time you make the request, you either say, you never make me happy, you never do what I say, versus what you just said now, which is, will you help me get to this point? Maybe it's the languaging of the request. Not that, uh, it's a bad request at all.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, certainly. Language is important, and you know that. And you're teaching that the way we request something matters. That's the difference between demanding you never do this for me. You must do this right now. And I don't care if you're doing whatever you're doing that's important to you. You need to be here for me right now. I mean, that's different than, uh. Are you willing to listen to me for a few minutes? I'm struggling with this thing that happened at work, or whatever it may be. It's different. Right?

>> Speaker C: Hm.

>> Speaker A: But I can also add that there's a reason why we may blow up or be frustrated or almost have, if this isn't too strong of a word. It's as if we're having a tantrum, even as adults. Like, oh, you're not doing this. You're always. You're never. You're this or that. Almost as if we're having a tantrum. And that's often. Because if we're to that point, it usually means we may need a nap or we may need a sandwich. Where we may be deprived in some other essential way, including we may not be feeling understood. We may not feel accepted, uh, connected. A sense of safety and security, power and control or mastery. Because it's similar. It's very similar. If we're sleep deprived, we'll get irritable. We'll make mistakes. We may become resentful. If we're really hungry babies, we blame it on the babies. They're a contributor to sleep deprivation for sure. But it's the same thing. If we're not properly nourished with our psychological needs, we'll become resentful, we'll become desperate. We'll become, perhaps bitter. If it goes on kind of chronically, we'll become nihilistic. Right? It doesn't matter. Who cares?

>> Speaker C: Apathy different. Apathy indifferent.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. Because I've been trying so hard to get my, um, psychological needs met and nothing's working. Why would I keep trying?

>> Speaker C: Do your teenage clients know how to articulate their emotions like that when they come to you?

>> Speaker A: Mostly, no. However, um, I'm generalizing. Adolescent girls tend to be more articulate and more in tune with their inner state. Boys tend to have a harder time with that, both understanding their inner state, their emotions, and being able to articulate it. That's a generalization, but.

>> Speaker C: It'S more the girls being able to say, this is my problem, this is how I'm feeling.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. Girls tend to be more introspective and articulate. They tend to get there a bit quicker than boys.

>> Speaker C: Right. Any last words? Anything I haven't asked you you were hoping to share with us today?

>> Speaker A: Yeah, actually, just emphasizing the same points, but perhaps in different areas of life. Right.

Are my psychological needs being met well? Are they being

If we're feeling worn out, if we're feeling exhausted or powerless or just unfulfilled, a great place to start is with the question, are my psychological needs being met well? Are they being met well? Am I nourished psychologically? Again, I, uh, know I'm on repeat here, both personally and interpersonally. Do I feel understood in my life? Do I feel accepted by those I care about and who care about me? Do I feel connected with them? Do I feel connected with myself? Do I feel connected perhaps with something greater than myself? Do I feel connected with perhaps nature or a greater purpose or the, uh, divine or the universe or whatever it may be? And, uh, do I feel safe and secure in my own life? Do I feel secure in my relationships? Do I feel safe? Like I can make a mistake and still be okay in a relationship where I don't need to be perfect in order to be accepted? Do I feel a sense of power over my own life in healthy ways, again, both personally and interpersonally? Am I connected and working as a team or, uh, at work or in my community or with my family or friends? And then, uh, mastery, of course. It's like, do I feel like I'm overall succeeding in my own life? Am I growing? If I want to do better, do I have a sense that I can put effort into that and grow and make improvements and move toward that goal and do better and be better and all of that? This is the psychological food, this is the psychological sleep. This is the psychological oxygen that so many of us are deprived, uh, of. And many of us are trying to fulfill that need through social media, which is like trying to fulfill our nutritional needs by eating cotton candy, for the most part. Uh, yeah, I'll just get nourished by eating cotton candy.

>> Speaker C: I'd love my nourishment to come from cheesecake, but I know the effects of that and how much work against me.

>> Speaker A: Where we know we're getting something, but it's not nourishing, it's not filling us up, it's not taking care of us. And then we become malnourished and desperate. And we may try to get our emotional needs met in unhealthy, uh, ways, through substances, through unhealthy relationships, through a desire for power and control. And I know I'm being long winded, but focusing on power and control for just a second, where we've seen this play out horrifically and tragically throughout human history, where, ah, people try to fulfill this need of power and control over other people, right? Including with apartheid and, uh, in many ways, exercising power and control where it's unequal. It's like, we have power over you. We have control over you. We feel powerful because we're right into our law that we are better than you. Or in the early days of the United States, that people of african descent are only three quarters of a person, or that women are only three quarters of a know. This is like exercising power over. This is an incredibly unhealthy way to fulfill our emotional needs. But this is what we do if we're not careful, us as human beings, it's this incredibly important responsibility to fulfill these psychological needs in healthy ways, both personally and interpersonally, because history is full of examples of trying to satiate our emotional needs in incredibly unhealthy, violent, murderous ways. So I can't emphasize the importance enough of taking care of these. Making sure we're nourished, eating our psychological kale and blueberries and pure water. That's my long winded last rant, I suppose. Thank you for indulging me.

>> Speaker C: Wisdom from Noel. Oh, we needed to hear that. We certainly did. Thank you for those words of wisdom. My friend of 20 years, Noel Kunz, who is the founder of volution counseling, helping teens, couples, adults and families with their mental health needs. Thank you for all those psychological needs, dietary requirements that we will be working on. We appreciate you being on the show today.

>> Speaker A: Thank you very much, Roberta. Pleasure to be here with you. And thank you to all your listeners as well.

>> Speaker C: My pleasure as well. Before you go, where can we find you? Online?

>> Speaker A: Yes. At volitioncounseling. Uh.com. And perhaps you'll provide a link, because that's, uh, a long, difficult one to spell. But I can spell it if you want.

>> Speaker C: Yes.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. And so that's my website. That's where you can also find more information about psychological needs, including suggestions on how to fulfill these in healthy ways, both personally and interpersonally with, uh, a handful of suggestions for each. Or you can email me at Noel spelled noel@volitioncounseling.com and I'll be happy to speak with any of your listeners further about this topic or otherwise.

>> Speaker C: Quick question, since COVID do you also do online consultations?

>> Speaker A: I do. Yeah. Covid kind of really opened the world up to more video like, right? So, yes, definitely, definitely put that on.

>> Speaker C: Show notes as well. Okay.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. Happy to connect through video.

>> Speaker C: Excellent stuff. Uh, thank you, Noel. Don't forget to thank you again. My pleasure.

>> Speaker B: Thank you for joining the speaking and communicating podcast once again. If you are willing to be on the show to discuss your communication challenges and see how we can help, please book a slot on my calendly and the details, uh, are on the show notes. We are so glad that you've joined us. We have more special guests who will be sharing more leadership tips and strategies on this show in this month of February, in addition to our first couple interview, who will be discussing the role that community Keishin has played in their marriage. So stay tuned for more episodes to come.