Speaking and Communicating Podcast

0:00:00 - Michael Glassock
Teachers feel like they're often stuck in that career. The amount of expertise teachers have then manage the delivery of education. You look at corporate worlds and the HR functions. The UK we call it learning development. Now, a teacher is absolutely made for that learning development function.

0:00:18 - Roberta Ndlela
Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host, Roberta Ndlela. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are crucial for your career growth and leadership development. Whether you're about to speak in public, make a presentation at work, pitch to investors, or an entrepreneur looking to showcase your brilliance to a wider audience, you'll be glad you joined us and by the end of this episode, please love onto Apple and Spotify. Leave us a rating and a review and what you'd like for us to discuss on this show. Now let's get communicating. Now let's get communicating with Michael Glassock, oiling all the way from Great Britain. He is a career transition coach with the project management background and is here to talk to us about not only his experience, but how he helps his client with their career transition and how his insights will help you as well. And before I go any further, please help me welcome him to the show, Hi, Michael.

0:01:33 - Michael Glassock
Thanks Roberta. Thank you for that lovely introduction. It's nice to be here.

0:01:37 - Roberta Ndlela
My pleasure. Welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about where your English accent comes from.

0:01:44 - Michael Glassock
Oh, I like that. That's a really good question. So for those who are watching this visual, if they can, I'm Mixrace, my mum is Jamaican and my dad is English and born in England, and so where we were born and where I grew up was a place called East London, in particular near a place called Hackney. So for those people who know London, that's a very kind of working class area of Hackney. It's very much gentrified now so it's a bit trendy and hip, as all areas are, but back in the day it was very much what you'd compared like at your greengrocer, so the apples and pears and when they're flogging fruit and veg, that's the kind of area of London. Hence you can hear the tones in my language, and I was born in Whitechapel Hospital, so within what they call Bobales. So that makes me a Cockney and that's why my language is as it is. Whether that's good or bad, bertie, I'll let you be the judge.

0:02:36 - Roberta Ndlela
We're not judging at all, just curious. Anyway, give us a little bit of your background. Yeah, of course, of course.

0:02:44 - Michael Glassock
So simply, I went to university, I took accounting and finance. Very much was kind of chasing a career around, I suppose, prestige and money and a real stable career and what's really interesting, regardless of the business discipline of the degree, you would do the same. Four core modules and the one I absolutely fell in love with is business management and I actually swapped my degree to business management. Going forward and with hindsight hindsight's a lovely thing. It's very clear why I changed business management because I have a very much insatiable appetite and curiosity with people. I absolutely fascinated by the way people tick and the way people work and from there kind of did various careers but really had a good stint about six or seven years in health and social care and I kind of went through graduate schemes, progressed fairly quickly, so kind of year on year got various progressions, was very happy with myself, had a good little I say good little, but a very, quite good salary for my age at the time.

And then what was funny enough happened, along with various life circumstances my dad God bless his heart he received diagnosis of Alzheimer's. So I think most people are aware of the Alzheimer's condition and that really. And then we have these kind of cringe sayings of you know, live life like it's your last day and all the rest of it. But to have something that big happen into a father figure really kind of rocked me centrally and that really kind of reminded me how sacred life actually is. And because he, you know, he still has, you know he's still relatively young in the grand scheme of things Cause you know we live into our 80s and 90s now and that really made me question my life and how I spend my life, because you know that might be me in 30, 40 years and what would I have liked to accomplish in that time, you know.

And from there I kind of really dealt with me head first into podcasts and books, and I'm a naturally curious person anyway, and but I only just intensified it and I kind of realized do I just want to plod along, go up the corporate ranks and good salary?

But what would I actually feel like of a chief? What would I actually have contributed to in terms of a wider society? And that's when I actually found the world of coaching and for me and we might talk about values later on but once I had a bit more self-awareness and self-understanding for various coaching techniques and tools, I really started to understand my own values and really how that aligns to them, and from there I set up my coaching practice and I also, alongside that, still work at a university as a careers officer supporting people other post-grads and grads around their careers as well. So I kind of really had that career transition in my life, I suppose. And, being the age I am, I truly feel passionate about helping other people have that same transition and not, you know, unfortunately wait to their 40, 50, 60 to do the same thing, you know.

0:05:30 - Roberta Ndlela
So I suppose that's a brief issue of my background. Right, first of all I appreciate you for that. But at the same time I always say let's look at both sides of the coin, especially with men. We say men must grow up and provide. So if you're going to provide, go for the most money. Nobody can fault you for that. You understand what I mean.

0:05:51 - Michael Glassock
Okay, okay, yes.

0:05:54 - Roberta Ndlela
So I think sometimes we think, oh yeah, let's all leave Kumbaya. That's not how it builds, they need to be paid. And then, secondly, when it comes to coaching, sometimes the work you do, it doesn't necessarily mean that now, hey, everybody must be a coach. You're gonna need somebody to coach, so everybody's gonna be a coach. So we understand that sometimes a person can take the path that you did and then realize, wait a minute, this is not fulfilling for me. But, as I said, we're gonna be careful not to downplay. People Say I need to provide for my family. This accounting thing may not be fun, but hey, pays the bills and fits my kids.

0:06:32 - Michael Glassock
Yeah, I'd take the point, roberto, but I would push back a slightly, I think. Firstly, on the first point of the two sides of the coin, you're absolutely right. Let's not kind of bury our heads in the sand. There are key stereotypes that are still with us and still in certain societies more than others around the man being the provider. You're absolutely spot on. It's interesting how generations have moved forward. I'll tell you a little bit in terms of the man and the woman.

I'm very blessed in life that my wife is a teacher. She equally provides a hell of a good teller compared to others as well. So it's unfortunate to be in a position where there's two incomes. And I think the key bit as well for me, and if we go to that piece in terms of transitioning careers, is it's not as simple as I am an accountant on Xcelery and I'm just gonna paint pictures and sell pictures for five pound a pop or five dollars a pop. I think what you're saying is spot on. There's a balance to all things in life. It's not that we can't be combined, like you said, and I think that's why when I kind of one of the key things I perhaps preach, I would say, is taking calculated risks and hence my background.

I suppose in project management there's a calculated risk to these career transitions. You know, there's things that we I think people are more getting on board with in terms of the increase in debt and cost of living. In terms of emergency funds, now, I did exactly that. I built an emergency fund whilst I was in that high-paying role that allowed me more lead time. I didn't just quit my job and go full-time headfirst. I built a coaching practice. I went part-time. You know there's various aspects to do that, and I think it's a really good question that you pose, because we can't forget the golden handcuffs that jobs give us, you know, and we use that salary and the increase in lifestyle. So, yeah, I think you're spot on and I think, with everything you say, there's nuance, isn't there. It's always a balance. It's not just quit your job and go into the mountains, and but I think there's something you can do to live more in alignment with yourself but still have a good living.

0:08:26 - Roberta Ndlela
Yes, and then the work you do with universities. Let's start there, because that's where things begin. So if you finish high school and then you study for whatever degree you choose to, and then the career guidance coach, michael Glass, okay, university says, hey, wait a minute, what, what? What is that process like? Do you say to them hey, what you study does not align to what seems like your values, or maybe you should consider this or go for it. Your speech and drama is going to take you places. How does that work at the university level?

0:08:59 - Michael Glassock
100%. There's, I suppose, a distinction I'd make. So my role, my role, is very much more focused around functional recruitment, which really kind of helps complement the coaching practice. And functional recruitment is around practical skills that help you get jobs. So that could be anything from CVs, cover letters, linkedin profiles, interview techniques, real, practical, tangible skills that help you get the job so you might understand the career and role you want to go for. And Then that's when you start to kind of really kind of build on on myself and others to help support you on that path. So that's that's my kind of role, which really helps complement where my coaching practice does is a more clear focus on limiting beliefs, people's mindsets and all that kind of stuff. That I would say is the bigger transition in people's minds. But once we get there, let's not make it all woo-woo and let's have the practical and tangible things actually help you get the job at the end of the day, because otherwise it's not gonna be helpful at all in terms of being a coach. So that's the distinction of my role.

But the thing I would say you know, the degree thing is so fascinating because obviously I was a business discipline and Me and all our peers we would be like right if you didn't do a job that's related to your degree, your failure. That's what we thought as students and it's so funny, isn't it? Give it a couple years, you go out into the big, wide world where you actually see the reality of life and you realize to a certain extent it doesn't matter at all what your degree is. There's various you know roles. Like I said, there's nuance with everything you say doctors, lawyers, there's various kind of links, but to the vast majority it doesn't matter.

What is a practical skills and tangible skills you can apply from that degree. Like history is a prime example. The amount of research Capacity that you have to employ in history degrees that could apply to research associates in mental health Could be applied to research consultants, in that the consultants face is so many practical skills you can pull from degrees. So hopefully that gives you a bit of a taste of the distinction between, say, my role at the university and perhaps how a coach can properly help you rather than selling you this, this woo woo of you know what's your values? Is it alignment with your degree? There's far more nuance, I would say.

0:11:06 - Roberta Ndlela
Hmm, I really like that because we talk about soft skills, which are the transferable skills. Yes, you need to study for your trade, your technical, your subject matter expertise, but when you go to the real world, as you said, then those skills come in handy. Yeah, and that's why you can transfer and transition careers if you learn to harness them over time.

0:11:34 - Michael Glassock
No, I'm 100% and you know, if I take an example, I know quite a lot of in terms of the world of teaching. You know teachers Feel like they're often stuck in that career. So they kind of you're either you're a teacher for life almost, and teachers often struggle a lot with transitioning careers, so other roles. But I think the amount of expertise teachers have in terms of that, soft skills, I suppose so clearly organization, I mean they're managing kind of five lesson plans all on one day. They're gonna have to kind of go from task to task like that. They have to manage behavior, then manage lesson plans, then manage the delivery of education to different levels because different levels you're having the class, so some are what you call a star students to your lower level, so more educated than others. You'll be organizing trips. You might have budget responsibility. If you're head of year, you've got to have a head of a lot of emotional intelligence to understand how.

What is it like to be on the receiving end of me? And there's even a dynamic between male and female teachers. If it's a male student and a male teacher, that can be more combative. Where's actually female teachers? They can't shout and scream into, you know, other students to make them discipline, they have to pull another different techniques and other skills. So that's just teacher. That's five minutes. I've barely touched the surface of a teacher. And there's so many skills that you can transition and apply to when you're going into an interview For another job to say that I might have not been the exact key industry, but these are all the skills.

This is what I've done that will really apply to the day-to-day duties and the day-to-day responsibilities of this role and that will give you a hell of a head start to actually transition into another jobs.

And likewise with degrees, you know what some of the skills and education requirements that you've learned in that degree? How can you pull out those soft skills, like you say? So, when you get out into the real world, into reality, and apply for jobs, I would go as far as saying the soft skills are probably more important than some of those kind of pieces of little Paper that we get in terms of educational requirements in order to rest of it, because I would sure as hell Appoint someone that's got the right personality, the right drive, the right work ethic and can talk to people like human beings, then someone who thinks they know it all and they've got the highest and highest of scores, and because that person in the real world is actually gonna fly and you know, as opposed to someone who thinks they know anything and can't be taught anymore. But I don't know, what's your experience with her, with them?

0:13:52 - Roberta Ndlela
If any teachers are listening, I hope they actually do realize that, because I have teacher friends. Well, when I taught in South Korea I actually had a business degree. It's just that if you come from a native English speaking country and you have any degree, even if it's an arts, you can teach, and therefore I never studied teaching. But I find that a lot of my teacher friends they think there's no way they can transition. If they needed to go to the corporate world they would hope go back to university and study business. But the way you just explained that I'm not sure how many of them are aware of how they are day-to-day work actually prepares them for it.

0:14:31 - Michael Glassock
Absolutely, absolutely, and we take would be really obvious. We get a really obvious link, a really obvious correlation. You look at corporate worlds and the HR functions of most businesses, they will often be and there's various terms. In the UK we call it learning development so a function that's purely helping your staff perform at their best, you know, allow them to facilitate them, to have growth and to do the best results. Now a teacher is Absolutely made for that learning development function. That's just, and that that's a real obvious link, I would say.

But you'll tell that to some teachers and they still won't realize how like, well-suited they are for that role. And In terms of being a trainer and a facilitator, I mean they have to be in front of classes 20, 30, 40-odd students, and I get it's adults and students, yes, all the rest of it. But there's killed key soft skills there They've been building for years and years and years and the resilience you know there's not talking even about the behavior of young pupils and young students. You would hope it'd be better with adults, but you know who's to say.

0:15:30 - Roberta Ndlela
It'd be surprised when you teach adults, because I did. But anyway, back to Interview prep, which is one of the things you do you help your students with at universities. What are some of the key areas you help them with? Because I've had guests on this show who are in HR and they now give the behind-the-scenes look at why didn't somebody get the job but they had a pluses from Harvard. What are some of the key things you help them with in preparing for interviews?

0:16:05 - Michael Glassock
Yeah, 100%. So for students and with the people I kind of coach, so it's the same core skills. So it doesn't matter if you're a student and adult, it doesn't matter, it's the same applyable skills. The number one word I would shout to the rooftops is tailoring. So tailoring everything you do to the job you apply for. And it sounds so obvious. But people have a and I think some people get the concept with tailoring with cover letters or resumes. So cover letters where usually it's one to two pages and it's free text, you write why you think you'll be suitable for the role. I think some people got the idea that they need to tailor, that they can't just have a default one that they send to 10, 30 different jobs, pardon me and the key bit in that is something like the free wise. So why you, why the company and why the role? That is just an easy starter for 10 that anybody hopefully listen to this podcast can take away and when they apply for that next job, have a clear paragraph, make it really easy for yourself. Why you, why the company? Why do you want to do accounting and finance at PWC? Why not Michael Glasser concern? Why is it PWC over my? I think Michael Glasser, it sounds a lot better to be honest, but anyway, and then why the role? So why do you want to be an account system? You know, is it? You can work in so many different roles in that organization, but why is it an account system? So that's.

I think a lot of people are familiar with tailoring in the cover letter, now the CV, your curriculum V, tie. Often, depending on the industry, you'll have a personal profile, so like your first paragraph, of why you think you're good and suited for the role, and then your various educational requirements and perhaps sometimes skills, work experience and other other bits and bobs. But even in your work experience, so you might have three, four jobs, you might only have one, you might have only done volunteering. But regardless of the job you're applying for, make sure when you have your work experience. So Tesco so let's think of a student. So Tesco is a retail where you get your, you know, your fruit and veg and your kind of food and stuff like that in the UK. So right in there, what were some of the duties, the day to day responsibilities you did at Tesco that relate to the role you're applying for? You know, is the role you're applying for heavy on customer service, heavy on communication. How can you make sure you sing that to the clouds in that work experience to show them? Yes, you might not be worked in the financial industry but you used to deal with clients and customers 50, 60, 70 every single day. So you're amazing at dealing with people's concerns, at your triage in their concerns. If someone has a concern about a certain thing, you can put it to the right member of staff to deal with it and problem solve, and that's the two.

The biggest thing is the takeaway, honestly, which people don't do enough is if I receive and obviously I've now I've been fortunate, I've been both sides of the coin, so I've been employed, but I've also been the employer recruiting people, quite a lot of people, kind of loads of senior level positions, and if I see a CV or cover letter that is not tailored, I could look at it and it could apply to any company. I'll chuck it out straight away. And that's the biggest thing. If you want to finish your CV and cover letter, if you look at it and you could take out, say whatever the word is, whether it's goldsmiths or what, goldman Sachs or whatever it is, you could take out the names of the organization and it could apply to any company. You know something's wrong, you know you haven't tailored enough. So that that's the biggest single handed thing.

And the thing is well, I would say which I think is a real no brainer not a lot of people do is most job descriptions will always have a link of someone to contact, like the recruiting manager. Now, I always, even if I know I definitely could apply for the job, I will send an email to whoever that contact is and say hi, there, I'm considering applying for the job. Be really good to have a conversation about the role and then, like this, just like this podcast, I'll get in front of someone, an actual human being, not a ATS or like a computer, and I will talk to that person and they will basically verbalize my CV and cover letter and say this is the experience I've got. This is kind of things I've done, this is the outcomes I've delivered. I just want to make sure I'm a good fit for the role and if it's worth me applying now I will know I'm good and I'm worth applying for the role.

But that will automatically build a rapport for me and the recruitment manager and then, once that little application comes through and I'm wearing some do blind applications. We don't see the name, and some do you see that? Everything for when it comes into your system they'll go oh, Michael Glassock. Oh yeah, I had a chat with him. That's the bloke a water glasses. Oh, he's the one with the healthcare background. He did it.

Yeah okay, that's cool and I've already built a rapport with that person. So those are just two things I'll stop routing on, but those are the two biggest bang for your bucks. I would say. If you tailor and you reach out to that person before you even get in the room fingers crossed to have an interview, you already have a rapport with that person.

0:20:54 - Roberta Ndlela
My HR guests have said that they spend maximum eight seconds on a resume. Like you said, sometimes you just check it out. So if that's the case, the cover letter, how do you make sure that you grip the attention will get to the part where you come face to face with them as well? How do you make sure that your cover letter, it's gonna pass the eight second test?

0:21:20 - Michael Glassock
I like that. The eight second test. For me so the biggest thing is making sure that your cover letter fully answers all the key responsibilities like persons specification so I'm not as familiar with the US but certainly the UK. Every job description will have a bit of information about the role but then it will have key specification that you have to feel so you know to do this role you essentially you have to have a degree, you have to have had a managerial experience, you have to have XYZ. So for me in the first kind of that three Ys that I kind of recited earlier, why you or why the role is massive, to kind of get the attention of that person so that they realize you're not just one of 30 applications they sent out that morning and you are the reason. There's a key link for why they're applying for you. So when I applied for this role last interview that I had, I had gone as a student to the University of Essex, I'd met my wife at the University of Essex and I could apply to three or four different universities. I'd had a career transition and set up my own coaching practice to transition roles, to do something that's more aligned with careers and helping people. And when I had that clearly and not waffle clearly in you know the first paragraph of why I was making this application, I would think, as I'm reading and I'm the employer this person is applying only to the University of Essex. They're not applying to 30 other people. They know why they want to work here. They know why they want the role. They've clearly said why me.

It's not just. I love the University of Essex. I've been here as a student. I know how you tick. I know your culture. I know how you encourage people to speak up for what they want to say. I've met my wife here. I'm connected to the organization. This isn't just any university to me. This is somewhere I want to give back to. You've helped my life for the rest of my life. I'm now with my soulmate.

There's a reason why I'm applying for your organization and why this role. Why careers officer? I've set up a coaching practice and worked evenings and weekends for a whole year to transition my role to do this job. You're not just a tick on my CV. I am doing this job because you're giving me an opportunity to change my life and that for me as an employer. If I'm reading that, I'll be going. You know what? I think we'll give this guy a go, we'll at least have a chat with him, we'll at least kind of connect with him and all the stuff I've said, and with your little smiles, Roberta, as I was going through that I think it builds rapport and I don't know if that built rapport with you in that moment when I was verbalizing it. But I would hope the same thing happens when someone's reading that cover letter, that it would build rapport and say you know what? There's a reason why this person is applying here. We're not just one of many CVs or many applications. He's applying to us and he's only applying to us today.

0:24:00 - Roberta Ndlela
It's because it distinguishes you from the 300 other people and the reason is, like you said, we do a lot of copy and paste. That's why the three whys are important, because we do a lot of copy and paste. I'm a supply to 50 jobs today, so copy paste, copy paste, and that's the first mistake we make and understand. Time is of the essence, but also, as I said, let's go back to getting in front of them, and a lot of people do not take that chance. I don't know whether they're not aware that they can, but I remember the first time I had it. I'm like how many people are aware that they can actually say I've applied for this, because there's 5000, presumably. I've applied for this role. Can I speak to HR and find out if I'm going to be part of the short list? How many people are aware they can do that? Or do people feel like I don't want to be a pain? I wait for them to call me?

0:24:57 - Michael Glassock
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. I love what you say about I don't want to be a pain. I mean, you might be working at this place. You're voting 37, 40 hours probably more of your time to this place, this organization. If you don't want to be a pain in terms of applying from now what's?

it going to be like when you actually work in it. I mean, I mean that is so funny when you put it into. Like you actually take a step back and actually realise what you're actually saying about yourself. Like if you think it's going to be a pain now, is it really worth your effort to actually work 40 hours and to vote a large period of your time and effort to have the own salary at this organization? I would think twice about your decisions and the hence with the reaching out even before you get to interview. You could be a pain then, couldn't you? They're going to think, oh Christ, who's this guy? He wants to have a chat about the raw fucking the sake. You know all the rest of it.

But that is an opportunity to sell yourself and show you're keen. This isn't just any old job. Like you're keen about this and even just about what you said about the 50 odd applications and copy and paste. I mean, if you can't put the effort in and it's always quality over quantity, like every day of the week If you can't even put the effort into applying for the job, what they're going to think why would they recruit you? Why would they think you haven't even put the effort to apply to work for us. What is going to happen when I pay you 30, 40, 50 grand to actually work at our company? Is that really the type of person that I'm going to want, you know, working under my organisation? So I think for me, the biggest thing for me is just like just do it right by yourself.

At the end of the day, I don't care if I don't even get a job or don't even get an interview. But if I've put 100% effort in and I know at the end of the day, if I don't get any I couldn't do anything else I'm happy with my effort, because my 100% effort Don't compare it to other people's. All I'm doing is comparing myself to myself. If I put 100% effort in, I've been a pain. I've got in there. I've had a chat with Roberta. I've tried to make a smile. I've done it a couple of times and then I try and build that rapport with her to actually get into that interview space. I check in about the shortlist and says that anything else I can do is any references you need for me, try to be helpful and help the process along. And I still don't get a job in an interview. I can sleep like a baby because I know I've done everything I needed to do and there's nothing more I could have put forward.

0:27:10 - Roberta Ndlela
Sounds like a confidence builder. So how do you coach your clients to be confident?

0:27:17 - Speaker 1
I think so many lies and we make it so complex about building confidence to people. I honestly think it's one of those buzzwords that's really, really interesting and for me, there's two clear ways, and I try and do everything I can as simple as possible, because there's so much woo-woo with like trying to like mysterious, just to sell people something and pull the wall over their eyes. If I'm honest, and for me, the two biggest things by none that have helped me with confidence is exposure therapy and truth statements. Now, exposure therapy is simply exposing yourself to the thing that makes you fearful. That doesn't make you confident. Now you see this with loads of different things, like people are scared of spiders, right, so they can't even be in the same room as a spider, or something like that. I don't know. Are you scared of spiders, Roberta?

0:28:06 - Roberta Ndlela
Spiders, snakes migrate to another country.

0:28:11 - Michael Glassock
This might be one for you. I've got trust in you. I've got faith in you. We're going to build your confidence, probably in this episode. Okay, right, I did it with my wife, we want to do it with you, okay. So for me, exposure therapy very simple. So what is the thing, the big, scary thing of like, why could you ever touch a spider? Absolutely no. I'm moving to another country. I can see you shaking your head. You're not going to do that. So for me, the easiest way is what? Could I look at a picture of a spider? Could I look at a picture of a spider on my phone? I know it's not real, I'm nowhere near it. I'm not looking at a picture of a spider. Could you do that? Now?

0:28:42 - Roberta Ndlela
Let's say yeah, okay, let me be real. The spider I can look at a picture. I can't be in the same room. Somebody must come and take care of that. That's how scared that. That's my level of fear for spiders. With snakes it's a real phobia. I can't watch national geographic because a snake might pop up or anything that says, oh this, we're going to the Amazon, I'm not going to watch that. I remember I was teaching in South Korea and my friend Carrie she's American, she's from Wisconsin.

You know how we print pictures and laminate them for the kids. It was supposed to be an animal thing. One of them was a boa constrictor. I think it was a book. Yeah, one of the animals is a boa constrictor and flamingos and everything. It was a book. So we were going to do the book and print. As soon as the snake popped up on Google images are stopped, I left the room where we prepare a lesson and said Carrie, please help me. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I cannot look at it. I cannot even print it and laminate it. Please help me. She said no, I understand, I have Mount Fiat too. So she printed the snake for me. I couldn't look at it on the computer. I'm telling you that's our scapegoat. So I'm not sure how much this exposure therapy if you have that level of fear for something could work.

0:29:57 - Michael Glassock
I think I'll make me match. That's fair. That's fair. I think, first and foremost, you had a bloody amazing colleague. That was, I didn't say the big you see, always love Carrie.

0:30:07 - Roberta Ndlela
Yes, of course, just a friend's to do this thing, yeah.

0:30:10 - Michael Glassock
I've got you, I've got you, it's all good, but for me. So I suppose, in all seriousness, if it really is that deep and that kind of damage it, I suppose for you, then therapy perhaps and that's a quick explanation for me. I suppose therapy the difference between therapy and coaching. So therapy is focusing on past events and how past events affect you to your present day. And you've had experience with snakes, with the experience, with whatever it is. So past experiences affect you to your present day and coaching is where are you in your present day, where do you want to go and how can we get you there? So this is the key thing to do as well, and I think any good coach who's worth this salt would do this and not just be like now I want the money, I want the client. If you have clients that constantly refer to the past, you'd raise self-awareness about them. So I say, Roberta, you keep mentioning that when you were six year old you saw that snake and you keep mentioning this, this experience that you have, and you challenge it. So any good coach guides, supports and challenge. So you'd raise awareness, but you challenge that. And if they were constantly referred to the past and they couldn't move past that element and how it affected them. Any good coach worth a salt would refer them to a therapist to help deal with that matter. And once they've overcome that past experience and they're in their present day, then that's when the coach can help them, propel them forward to the future, rather than kind of keeping them just for yourself. If you truly are a coach and you're training them for the right purposes and you want to help people be the best version of themselves, that in my opinion that's what. That's what a good coach would do. Having formalized training with the ICF and they're doing to kind of a code of ethics that kind of instills us in terms of what the good and best practice we do, I suppose. So that's one quick, quick thing to cover up there. But for me, with exposure therapy we use kind of communication and talking to groups, which is the common one that people have fear with. So you have to do presentation to your board per se and you're really fearful and you can't think of anything worse.

Now the ways I would build this up and I've literally done this with a client is I would get them to do a recording on their phone and just record about anything it doesn't have to be anything to do with professional environment anything that they feel comfortable with, and they would record that and they don't even have to listen to it. And they would do that a couple of times. So get into a bit of a habit. And then they would record something and listen to themselves. And I'll tell you, no one likes listening to their own voice, I'm the same. But they would do that and it's a little bit of discomfort, just a little bit of discomfort, but it's manageable. Then they would start doing one, perhaps an audio and visual recording, so not just audio. They would record themselves video and eventually they would watch that.

Then they would send it to their best friend that friend you've had since like six years old, your best man at your wedding, whoever it is, someone that you know you can feel comfortable that they won't judge you. So you would send it to them. Then you send it to a group of friends. Then you send it to one stranger, then you send it to group of strangers. Then you would do something in person to your best friend, then you would do something to a stranger and all of a sudden you take one action every single week and there's what 52 odd weeks in a year. You take one action every single week of a year. My God, in three, four months you'll be miles ahead of where you started and when you didn't feel any confidence.

I say it in jest, but that's exactly what happened with my wife who's spiders. She would be in the other room. I would take a spider for her, I would get the spider in the glass and I'd be near her so she could see it. Then eventually she would give me the glass and the cardboard next to me. I would do it. Then the next time she would eventually get a glass and put it on the spider and leave it there. I would take it out and then eventually she went, got the spider in the glass and now she does it. She won't even call my name. I know I can see your big eyes going like this. I'm not proposing anything with her, but if we live together it might take you into doing this. So I would slowly get you on board. But I play with a little bit of humour here.

But there are small, tangible actions you can do to really ramp things up. You don't have to all of a sudden say I'm scared to talk to people. I'm going to sign up to Toastmasters and talk in front of 10,000 people. That's idiotic. It's small, tangible actions that put you out of your comfort zone Within a month and this leads to my second point of your truth statement within a month or two, you will look back at how far you've come, all the steps you've taken, and the truth statement is simply this you write down all the things that are factual and true.

But if I do that, I'm married to my soul mate. I run my own coaching practice. I work at the University of Essex coaching grads and post-grads. I have a loving mum and dad. I went on a holiday to jake a lot last year. Whatever it is, all these statements are true. No matter what anyone says about me, they can't take these things away from me and a mix of that exposure, therapy and looking at past experiences, that will really build that self-confidence. And I'm not going to say it's going to happen overnight, because I'll be lying to you, but at the end of the day, I'm in it for long-term gains, a long-term future, and if you do those two things, that is what has allowed me to come to this day to talk to a complete stranger and feel absolutely comfortable to do so.

0:35:01 - Roberta Ndlela
Yes, baby steps and everything, because that's why people don't even try. Sometimes they feel like, oh, this is too scary, nobody reminds them. You can actually start with baby steps and your level of confidence and grow from there. And then, before you go, Michael, I want us to just quickly touch on career. Transitioning doesn't always mean changing your job, but it could just mean changing organizations, especially if you love what you do.

0:35:28 - Michael Glassock
No, yeah, I love this. I'm not just saying I truly loved it. So one of my favorite clients that I've had because we always talk about oh, let me talk about my testimonials and how I've changed people in careers and it's very much attached to ego, the thing I love the most one of my favourite clients is someone who wanted to leave the arts industry and they wanted to do something, perhaps get some more money, transition to something more stable and through the sessions we had. So usually I meet with people kind of every other two, three weeks for 12 sessions and we do various activities and tasks. Within three sessions we quickly realised actually this is the right industry, this is the right role for her, but she wasn't utilising all the opportunities she actually had. There's various kind of mindset, barriers and blockers that she had that we kind of uncovered and unpicked and within three sessions I said look, I'm not just going to carry on coaching you and taking your money for the sake of it. She came to the own realisation. You know what I do love this role. I'm not utilising opportunities that I can do. I'm not utilising the stakeholders that are having touch with me, because she works at quite a high profile organisation in the arts industry and we split our separate ways, and that was the thing that gave me the biggest joy.

It's not always a success to make people transition careers, organisations, jobs. I just want to help people have self-awareness, to realise how much power they actually have in their lives, like how much power they have in their lives to do something that aligns their values but at the same time, exactly what you said at the beginning allows them to pay their bills and allows them to keep their head afloat. That I don't think I truly challenge anybody who says, oh, no, I have to do this. If you say you have to do this, then you probably will end up doing that. It's all about the language and the language that we use with ourselves.

If your best friend says you're too. Oh, I have to do this, michael, you say no, you don't. You would challenge them. But it's funny how we challenge our friends and not challenge ourselves. So for me, that's the biggest thing. You're spot on. You don't have to change careers and at the end of the day, I'm not going to coach someone just for the sake of it. If they come to their own realisation early that actually this is the right job, but I need to utilise the things that are in the position I am. I have a position of authority, a position of power. I need to utilise the stakeholders, the training opportunities I have. I really do love that question.

0:37:41 - Roberta Ndlela
Last words of wisdom for someone who feels stuck.

0:37:45 - Michael Glassock
For me it's so obvious. So many people prefer the certainty they're in rather than embracing uncertainty. So many people rather just discomfort. They don't like the job, they plod along, they don't like it. They rather just that, that discomfort and knowing what they know, than embrace the uncertainty of life. And once you do it it feels like a game. I think life is just a game for me. The game is just to keep life going, like with coaching. There is no end point for me and I truly mean this and hopefully this comes across in like what I'm saying. I could be 80 and I will still be coaching. I could win the lottery and I will still be coaching, but the game is to keep the game going, like for me and I know you do that I was coaching and volunteering three, four.

0:38:31 - Roberta Ndlela
Oh no, I'm happy with the lottery part, so go ahead.

0:38:36 - Michael Glassock
That's fair. That's fair, and I will take the lottery part as well. We're split it maybe. Oh, I join you, I join you so, but I truly mean that. Like, even if I was doing half a day when I was 80 to keep the mind where and to help others, I would still be doing that. But I'm only in this situation because I've embraced discomfort and I've stepped out my little box and I've tried to do that small, tangible step.

Like I said, I spoke to one coach on LinkedIn who was me, but three years ahead, and I think that's a key tip in itself don't approach someone who's 10 years away from you. They're not in the same reality, they don't know the same problems and challenges you're facing in that current place. But I reached out to one coach three years ahead of me and they said you know what, Michael, I was you, I was a project manager. I did this. I'm not going to say you know, I'm earning hundreds of thousands of pounds. That's not the reality.

But I'm so happy, I made this transition because I'm working for myself, I have more control over my life and I'm ultimately doing something where I get to Saturday, Sunday, and I actually look forward to coming into work on a Monday and that is worth a hair level of money. Like you can have all the money in the world and again, it's a balance. You need to pay your bills, you need to have sustainability. I'm not lying, I know that's true, but the fact I can wake up Saturday, Sunday and look forward to working on Monday is worth a head of a lot of money. So for me, embrace discomfort.

There's so many people like Roberta, like me and like and just your friends, like accountability buddies, that will help you on that journey. So this life is sacred and I truly mean that. With a father who has had Alzheimer's, I truly mean that I'm not going to give you. Live your day like it's the only day in the world. That's that's cringing. But your life is sacred and you're in control of it, so make the most of it. That's all I would say about it.

0:40:12 - Roberta Ndlela
Your life is sacred indeed. Words of wisdom from Michael Glassock, all the way from Great Britain, the career transition coach who wants to help and transform lives well into his 80s. Thank you, Michael, for being here today. This has been such an enjoyable conversation. I really appreciate it.

0:40:32 - Michael Glassock
Amen. Thank you for your time, Roberta, it's been a pleasure.

0:40:35 - Roberta Ndlela
Thank you for being here. My pleasure indeed. And before you go, where can you find you? So we learn more career transition nuggets.

0:40:43 - Michael Glassock
I like that nuggets absolutely so. Website's MichaelGlassockCoaching.com. So www.MichaelGlassockCoaching.com. I'm sure it'll be in the show notes and and simply on LinkedIn or Instagram, just Michael Glassock, you'll find me. Michael Glassock Coaching, yeah, m-i-c-h-a-e-l, and then Glassock G-L-A-S-S-O-C-K thanks, Glassock.

0:41:05 - Roberta Ndlela
Like the class and a sock combined. Okay, I'll put that on the show notes. Thank you, michael, it's been a pleasure.

0:41:14 - Michael Glassock
Beautiful, thank you.

0:41:15 - Roberta Ndlela
My pleasure. Thank you for joining the Speaking and Communicating podcast once again. The Speaking and Communicating podcast is part of the B Podcast Network, where there are many other podcasts that support you in being a better leader and becoming the change you want to see. To learn more about the B Podcast Network, go to BepodcastNetworkcom. Don't forget to subscribe, leave us a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify, and stay tuned for more episodes to come.