Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Communication is a two-way thing, and you've really only communicated successfully if the other person or the group of people that you're communicating with or to has heard you and has taken in your message the way that you intended. Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta.
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If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. Communication and soft skills are crucial in your career growth and leadership development. Whether you're about to speak in public, make presentations at work, pitch to investors or an entrepreneur looking to showcase their innovation to a wider audience,
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you'd be glad you joined us. The Speaking and Communicating podcast is part of the Be Podcast Network, which is a centralized hub that helps listeners become their best selves at work and in life. To learn more about the Be Podcast Network, go to BePodcastNetwork.com. And by the end of this episode, please log on to Apple and Spotify. Leave us a rating and a review.
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and what you'd like for us to discuss on this podcast that will be beneficial to you. Let's get communicating!
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My guest today is so fired up about communication skills. She decided to travel to several countries learning their language because as a teenager, she had the foresight to realize how important they are. Rachel Radway, hailing all the way from California to Pacific Coast, she is here to talk to us about how she helps her clients maximize their career success and find fulfillment and so much more.
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And before I go any further, please help me welcome her to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hi, Roberta. Thank you. I love that introduction. I'm glad I didn't butcher it. Thank goodness. No, I loved it. And I love that I'm fired up. And I love that you have this whole podcast about communication. It's awesome. I appreciate you saying that. And thank you so much. As we were talking earlier before the recording, how much we have in common because that's our passion.
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but it seems like you are just so much more on a whole other level and you started as a teenager, but before we get into that, please tell us a little bit about yourself. Sure. I started actually with speaking and communication when I was a child. I was an early reader and I started learning languages early and I was surrounded by other people who spoke multiple languages, so that was helpful. I really just loved...
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communicating and helping other people communicate. And I wasn't afraid to speak up. I started writing plays when I was a small child and performing them and it took on a life of its own. So originally I was actually gonna be a translator and an interpreter. And then life took a different path and I ended up becoming a professional writer and editor and working in the communication space. Started out in internal communications, leadership and employee communications at a large company. And that was
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The first time that I got a sense of how much I cared about inclusivity and organizational culture and how important it was for people to communicate with each other and for leadership to communicate to employees. Sped along many years, decades, did lots of different things around the writing, editing and communication space. I also did some work in operations and most recently in design operations. And in my last couple of roles in design operations,
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I came full circle back to the organizational culture space and facilitated team meetings and off sites and leadership team meetings, coached and mentored leaders and employees on things like communication skills, giving and receiving feedback and on inclusivity and how to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to speak up. You know, the fact that some people are not as comfortable speaking or contributing even in certain kinds of circumstances.
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So this was a big, big theme for me. Then love happened again and I became a coach. I have realized that my passion is really coaching in this space. It's coaching in the area of finding your voice, being a more effective communicator and helping your team and your organization create an amazing, safe, inclusive culture using those communication skills among many others.
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A lot of our behaviors we usually attribute to childhood. You said you were encouraged to speak up. Was that your parents, the community you grew up in? You know, that's a really interesting question. I've never actually thought about that before. It was definitely my parents and my family. First of all, there are a lot of lawyers in my family. Oh, there we go. They're very used to speaking and self-advocating.
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Several members of my family spoke more than one language and had traveled a lot. So they weren't afraid of putting themselves out there. And I just grew up around that. Back to, yes, you do really get influenced by your childhood because then the opposite sometimes is true, which is I don't speak up much because I was told you speak too much. You must shut up. You're a kid. I've heard of those stories too, the opposite of that.
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I have heard those as well and it's very hard for people who grew up in that kind of environment to get past that self-talk and get themselves to be able to speak up and to find their voice. So that's one of the things I love helping people with. Finding your voice. When it comes to the workplace, you have so many voices because a team is made of people from different households. How do you find your voice?
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without stepping on toes or potentially ruining your career progression. Especially us women, we feel, you know, I don't want to talk too much. This could hinder my career progress. Where do you find that fine line? It's a very fine line and it can be really tough. This is something that I've just recently worked with three different clients on. You know, one of the things that you need to do is figure out what's in the best interests of
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everyone. So it really depends on what the situation is, right? We were talking a little bit before about advocating in terms of salary or promotion or other things like that. So that's one story I'll share in a minute. There's also making sure that everyone's voice is heard when there is a decision to be made or a project that needs to move forward. And in that case, I think keeping in mind that
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Diverse teams are shown to be more effective and that means people with diverse opinions, among other things, creating a safe space for everyone to be able to voice their opinion and for nobody's opinion to be ridiculed or dismissed, even if it's not necessarily the best idea going forward. I think it's really hard to sometimes keep in mind that it needs to be the best outcome for everyone. And...
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when you're working on a team, even if everybody has very, very different opinions, the goal of the team is to move the team forward. The team wants to succeed, so the company can succeed, so the customers can succeed. So you ultimately all have the same goal. And I think that's one of the really important things to keep in mind. If leaders can keep that in mind and people who are managing projects can keep that in mind, then that is one way to help make sure that all the voices get heard. So that everybody feels like they see me.
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They might not take my discussion, but at least they gave me the platform to express it. Exactly. And that creates a safer environment for everyone too, which makes everyone more productive and successful. It's a virtuous cycle. Cause you do give your all or even go the extra mile if you know that, you know what, I'm not just a machine. They see me as a person. When it comes to diversity, a very touchy topic, we've come to realize that it's not just, cause usually people jump to, I don't know what was the first thing
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on your mind but people jump to oh yeah that means you must have different races. We have become more aware of the fact that it includes cultural diversity too. Let me give an example and this is from one of my previous guests. He had a guest on his youtube channel where the guest said a white person from America is culturally diverse from a white person from South Africa. There's still two white people and when we look at the optics we think it's the exact same team. It is not.
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Because they see things differently. They have different perspectives on how they think we should serve the customer. Can we just see more of it in a holistic, especially with organizational culture, because you're gonna have these people in the same team. Usually a lot of leaders, and we know the brain does this shortcut of, oh no, they look the same, okay, so they're gonna be the same, but they're not. What do you think of that? I agree a thousand percent, Roberta.
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This is in one of my past roles. I was a member of the diversity equity inclusion sort of advisory board for the company. And one of my concerns was everybody had very limited ideas as you were saying about what diversity means and what a diverse organization or team should look like. I happened to be one of the older people there.
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nobody was considering diversity and age, for example, because most of them were in the same small age range. Exactly. So there are so many more things and cultural diversity is huge. And this is one of the reasons why I love living in other countries and cultures, because you learn so much and you get such a different perspective on even your own culture, which may never have occurred to you had you not taken yourself out of that space and put yourself somewhere else. Which brings us to, you lived in eight countries and you speak.
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How many languages? I've studied nine languages, but I want to be really clear with the distinction. I don't speak nine languages. I've studied them. Unfortunately, when you don't spend years really practicing and getting fluent and then keeping that going, you lose it, of course. So it's great. If somebody asks me a question in one language, I can give them a spaghetti answer with pieces in four different languages. I love that.
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I understand more than I can speak. I can understand a number of things in a lot of different languages. But if you ask me to have a conversation in just one, it's a little bit harder. Listen, I'm South African. We have nine African tribal languages just in my country alone. Yeah. Then you have English and you have Afrikaans, the Dutch original language. Yep. A South African will speak one sentence, will have three languages. Yeah.
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Rachel, I said, Blifman, gini gya that thing. Here's what I've done. I said, Blifman is Afrikaans. That's the first language. Okay. Gini gya is my Zulu heritage language. My Zulu language, may I try it? That thing is English. I've spoken three languages in one sentence. What did you say? I said, Blifman means please man. Okay. Gini gya, give it to me. That thing. So I'm saying, please Rachel, just give me that thing.
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I've said it in three languages in one sentence. I've been in that situation many times. So a couple of examples, I lived in Peru and in Ecuador. And when I was with some indigenous people, for example, in either country, some of them would speak a little bit of Spanish and a little bit of English, but not really feel fluent in either language. So they would speak sentences that would be some English, some Spanish, some indigenous language.
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I also, for example, when I was in Ecuador, I had friends who were Russian. In fact, when I lived in Portugal, I also had friends who were Russian. And Russian is one of the languages that I studied the longest. And we would have conversations back and forth that would be a little bit Spanish, a little bit Portuguese, a little bit Russian, a little bit English. It's easier than trying to stay in on my co-ation. Okay, so quick question. First of all,
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What is it that you learned about America, your native country, when you were outside of its borders? That's a great question. Something that seems really obvious to me now, but wasn't as obvious to me when I first started living abroad, was how provincial we can be, we as Americans, can be sometimes in our thinking about the rest of the world. So we're a superpower, or at least we used to be, I'm not sure whether we count anymore.
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We often think that if the news isn't about the United States, it's not important. I lived in New Zealand. They have news about lots of other places. And your news doesn't focus on the United States. Imagine that. There's other stuff out there. There are so many things that your eyes open to when you're in another culture. I still remember the experience I had with someone very close to me. This time I traveled with a boyfriend back in the 90s.
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obviously traveled before and lived abroad. He had not, this was his first trip out of the United States that we were going to Europe. And I was trying to figure out whether we should get money here in the US before we went over or get it in the airport or wait till we got to a bank or something. And his first question was, why would we need money? And I was like, because they don't use US dollars there. To go into, they don't have Walmart. Their supermarket is called something different.
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And you don't use dollars from the US, you use their currency. He honestly had had no idea. And it's just an exposure thing, right? If he had no negative intentions, he just really had no idea. I heard somebody the other day talking about someone who was on a podcast and they said they couldn't understand any of the information because of his accent. He was from the UK. To me, his accent was very, very, very mild.
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It was not a strong accent at all, but you learn about accents. You learn about how to understand other people. You learn that you don't need to shout if somebody can't understand you and your accent, that you may just need to enunciate a little bit more clearly or speak a little bit more slowly or something like that. And then what about when you went there? So you in Portugal.
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Is there something that you take away and you think, oh, wait a minute. So as an American, okay, this is what I took for granted now that I'm here. Oh, I understand these people better now that I'm with them versus what I saw in the news. I try not to watch the news. I really try to stay away from it. I don't think it's very healthy, but yes. So one of the examples that comes to mind.
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Supermarkets we take for granted, especially if you're in a metro area in the United States, that you can buy anything you want anywhere at any time, that things are open all night long, and that you have a dozen different types of tea and a dozen different types of milk and a dozen, everything. That there's just tons and tons of options. That isn't true everywhere you go. There are places in the world where you can go
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and you have one choice of D or maybe two, and there's one milk and there's one yogurt and there's one type of cheese. And that's not unusual for the people who live there. They're used to that and they're very happy with it. Sometimes less choice is actually better because it makes it easier for you to choose. Because I was about to ask, so then did you feel deprived? Did you feel like my life is lacking something? Did you feel like...
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Living among these people who have less than Walmart has tons of variety. Oh, I can't wait to go back home. I didn't. I actually find it refreshing. I don't love giant supermarkets. I don't shop at Walmart just because I find it overwhelming. I'm somebody who does not enjoy food shopping. I just want to go get what I want and leave. So if there's only one choice, that's my choice. And I go and it's much easier and it's faster.
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The reason I ask these questions is because that perspective, the person that you are is who you bring to the workplace now. Yes. And what have you found since you're an organizational cultural consultant and you work with leaders, this global environment we now find ourselves working in, whether you're still in your country, but Zoom has made you work with offices from around the world, how do we learn to understand each other and adapt?
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to these different perspectives feeding in on one Zoom call? That is, I think, one of the single biggest challenges that leaders today face it, even if they don't realize that they face it. So I love that you asked that question. I think a lot of it comes down to learning empathy. There's a lot of conversation about this now. I know, actually, I think it was on your show that I heard a couple of episodes back. There might've been a conversation about soft skills versus
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people skills versus other things. Empathy is one of those skills that some people consider a soft skill or something that women are good at, but men aren't. Was it Mitch Lyons who said it's considered, he considers it misogynistic? It's very funny because I listened to that podcast and I thought, I think I interpreted that differently than you did. I don't think he meant it in a negative way.
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I think what he was trying to say, and this is just my guess, I think what he was trying to say is that it's misogynistic to say that it is only a woman's skill or that it is a soft skill, because it should be an everybody skill. It should be a hard skill. It should be required across the board from everyone by everyone. Right. But do you see what happened there? Just the point I was making, Erla, which is
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I think I came with my own biases and interpretations of the word misogynistic. And I was like, oh, and that's why I like you said, I interpreted it differently. I'm like, not from him, by the way. Oh, we're good friends. But what I'm saying is, oh my goodness, I've never heard of it being called using that word before. I think the word misogyny does that to me with my programming. And that's totally natural.
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It was an unusual word that he used. I thought that I knew what he was getting at, but it's not the way I would explain it. So it was definitely unusual. But I think empathy is something that people who don't feel that they naturally have it might be a little bit afraid of. They might think it's something that they can't achieve or can't get, or that only certain, you know, if you're born with it, that's fine, but you can't learn it. You can learn it. There are tools and tricks and tips and all kinds of things. And there are ways that you can learn it.
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And that's the way to help a multicultural group or organization like you were asking about be better able to communicate and collaborate and function and succeed and thrive. Realizing that everyone, regardless of where they come from, regardless of the way that they were raised, has basic human needs. And we all wanna be seen and heard. We all wanna be loved. We all need food.
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throughout our day, we all need to sleep, we all need to work unless we're very, very fortunate. Yes, Rachel. All of these things, we are all the same as much as we are all different. And I don't mean to take away people's differences because those are things that I value and we all value. But in terms of getting a group of people who are very different to come together towards a shared purpose.
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Empathy and communication are the keys. The shared purpose is the common theme. And what we do as humans is unfortunately the optics, the language, the accent, the way you come from your culture is what we think is the hindrance to the common purpose. Exactly. Sometimes it is a little more of a hindrance, right? Sometimes the communication styles are so different.
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that unless one or the other person involved realizes that and knows how to address that, they may not even understand that that's what the problem is. And so it may come across as one person is offended by what the other person is saying or by the way that they're communicating to them. And then you need someone who really understands the dynamics of intercultural communication to help sort that out.
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I've been in that situation myself before I really understood it. And sometimes if you're in the middle of it, it can feel so personal and so intense that it's hard for you to kind of step out of that space, step back and say, wait a second, this is not personal. This is not about me. This is not about the other person. This is about the fact that we're just communicating very differently and we haven't learned the other person's styles yet.
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And is there an example you can help us with on how you were able to handle one of those situations? Or even one of your current clients you work with on how they handle the intercultural differences in their team? I worked recently with a woman who comes from another culture, who was raised not to speak up, to listen and not be listened to. She's in a leadership role and...
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she wanted to learn how to be heard. It was a little bit different. It wasn't a question of anyone taking offense. So it wasn't exactly the example that we were just talking about. This was more helping her understand how valuable her perspective is and that it's just as valuable as all the other people that she is communicating with, the people in her peer group, and that if they don't hear it, they're missing out.
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and how ultimately the product or the project or whatever it is that she's contributing to is going to be better for the inclusion of everyone's voice, including hers. And looking at examples of things that she's done in the past with groups that she's been more comfortable with and how she's been able to step up in those situations and how she might use examples from those.
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to bring to the current scenario, even though the environment was a little bit more challenging. So you're saying she does find her voice in an environment where she's comfortable with the people around her. So she's psychologically safe in that environment. So she finds her voice. So how can we then create psychological safety in the workplace in our teams for everybody to feel like they do have a voice? There are so many different factors that go into that,
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To start with, you can, as a leader, if you're trying to create this yourself, or even not as a leader, because I think everyone can play a part in doing this, pay attention to who is heard the most often and who is never heard. Pay attention to who raises their hand. Pay attention to who steps up and asks for assignments. Pay attention to who disagrees when a decision is being made and things are being discussed.
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and who doesn't? Is it always in some organizational cultures, it's always people with a certain rank or a certain title or level. In some organizational cultures, it's only men. In some organizational cultures, it's only the white people, or the majority, whatever the majority is, pay attention to those things. And if someone else tries to speak,
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and gives up because they've tried seven times and everybody keeps talking over them, use your voice if you have one, if you've found yours, use your voice to say, hold on people, I think this person over here has been trying to say something, let's listen to them. And if somebody makes a suggestion and then is ignored and that suggestion comes up again later by someone who's got a more powerful voice, call it out.
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and say, you know, I think that's a great suggestion. In fact, I think I heard this person over here actually say that. Maybe we didn't hear them. This is something I could talk about forever and ever. There are lots of techniques that you can use in meetings, in town halls, whether they're in person or virtual, in asynchronous communication. There are virtual collaboration tools that you can use to give people, there are introverts who are not always comfortable speaking up in groups.
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There are people with neurodivergent brains who are not always comfortable speaking up in groups. So there are lots and lots of people who don't always raise their hand or who aren't always ready to just jump in and respond to something on the fly. They may want to think about it a little bit beforehand or to process it a little bit. So there are lots of ways that you can provide a safe environment for those people to do that and to contribute successfully and happily.
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When I was in high school, my deskmate, Vanesri, every class, we sat in the front. So you had two types of teachers and obviously sitting in the front, that means we raise our hand all the time. You had teachers who would just, I don't know if it's to make life easier, just to make things move along. Cause you know, they're on the clock for their subject and just pick whoever's raising their hand. But then you had teachers who would actively ignore us.
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and want to speak to the ones at the back who haven't said anything. And that's exactly what leaders should be doing, not to ignore the people who are sitting in the front all the time. Not all the time, but yes, to actively call out the introverts, the I always try to speak and everybody interrupts me types. Exactly. Also to be sensitive to the fact that
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sometimes calling on them and the spur of the moment may not be the best way to get them to contribute. So if you have someone sitting at the back of the room who doesn't raise their hand and you want them to contribute, they may never answer you if you just call on them out of the blue. That may surprise them, which may not be a good way to get them to interact comfortably. And make it worse then. You could make it worse, definitely. One thing you can do is if you notice that there is someone who is consistently not speaking up.
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See if you can talk with them one-to-one outside of the group context and ask them if it is a comfort level issue or if there's some other reason, and then create opportunities for them to give input. So make sure you send out meeting agendas in advance, for example, so everyone knows what the topics are gonna be. If there's a specific topic that is gonna need people's input or a decision that needs to be made, make sure that's in there.
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And make sure that everybody knows that there are different ways of accessing the agenda too. Is it just by email? Is it in Slack? Is it both? Is there an intranet? Are there other ways that people can find it? Give them time to process and think about and prepare their thoughts before the actual meeting or the discussion. If you're doing something spur of the moment, maybe people don't want to speak up, but they'd be willing to write. So use.
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Mural or FigJam or Jamboard or one of the other virtual collaboration tools where everybody can do it simultaneously and there isn't one voice that stands out above any others. Right, so it's up to the leader to actively get everyone as involved as possible. Rachel, when you were in tech you worked in design operations, would you like to talk to us more about that and how communication skills play their role?
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It was interesting. So a lot of product designers are introverts. It just happens that way. That's been my experience. Not all of them, of course, but a lot. Sometimes you do need to draw people out a little bit more, including some of the leaders. I've worked with design operations leaders on skills like this. And you will still have leaders, as you will have anywhere, who are not as effective communicators as they could possibly be.
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and they need to learn these skills. One of the things that I focused on when I was facilitating meetings or retreats or events was making sure that there was time and space for people to participate, making sure, as I mentioned before, that agendas were sent out in advance and making sure that we heard from as many people as possible. Right, because at the end of the day, back to...
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Sometimes some people need a bit of a nudge, a bit of a push, some are self-motivated to just speak up. And which then brings us to self-advocacy. So if you are introverted and you just generally don't speak up, how do you advocate for yourself if there's something that is very important that you need to communicate in the workplace? It's a great question. And I would go further and say, it's not just introverted people who don't.
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always know how to self advocate. It could be lots of people. And one of the things we know is that a lot of women leaders don't know how to advocate for themselves. In fact, a lot of women in whatever their roles don't know how to advocate for themselves. And this is something I love working with people on. It is such a common issue. I recently had a client, she's a current client. We only started working together a few months ago and she came to me, her very first session.
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she was asked to take on a larger area of responsibility without an increase in compensation. She was gonna go to them. She was prepared to say no to them if she didn't get an increase, but she was gonna go and ask for, I think it was a 5% increase initially. But understand this was a really, it was a much bigger area of responsibility that they were asking her to take on. Right.
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In that first session, we worked on a number of things. We worked on her self-confidence. We worked on her understanding of all of the contributions that she had made and could still make to this organization and the impact that she had already had and the outcomes that they could get with her in this new role and without her in this new role. And I could see the light coming into her eyes. Well, she went out that first week
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Her boss actually called her in before she was ready. She was planning on doing a whole, putting a presentation together, but her boss just wanted to know what her answer was. So she went in, she asked for a 25% increase and it was approved immediately. And as soon as she told me this, I was jumping up and down for joy for her because I was so excited that she was able to do this. And you could just see the light in her expression and...
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how good she felt about herself. And we should all be able to do that. Yeah, because like you said, her contributions, what would happen if she's not there, if she doesn't fulfill those responses. Sometimes I think when it comes to work, we just feel like I'm lucky to have a job. You forget that you're an asset too to them. Exactly, and that if you don't speak up for yourself, nobody else is going to. The purpose of their existence is to low ball you.
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to reduce their overheads because wages and salaries are the highest overheads. Yes, let's call it what it is. Yeah, that's why they lowball us. So if you don't self advocate, they will keep it at a minimum, whatever you can accept. Exactly. And you know, I love that she was willing to say no, that's important. But what a better outcome for everybody. And she's taking on the responsibility because I know she's going to do a fantastic job at it.
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And she's getting appropriately compensated for it. It's a win-win. And they know she's going to do a great job. You know why? That's why they approved the 25%. Exactly. Because they know. They always know. Exactly. I'm looking forward to her next steps when she can keep getting those raises and those promotions. Well, congratulations coach for bringing light to people. You know, sometimes they say we need a mirror to ourselves. Exactly. She needed you as her mirror.
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I thank you for that. She did all the work. I just did reflect back to her some things. It looks like helped her move forward and stand on her own feet. So yes, it was fun. Like I said, I was celebrating for her. I'm sure you guys were. Now, what would you say before you give us any more additional resources to look into these communication skills to maximize our career success and find what that's fulfilling? A lot of people talk about
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speaking and communication skills and learning how to be more effective by doing toast masters and giving presentations and practicing and that's all one-way communication. Communication is a two-way thing and you've really only communicated successfully if the other person or the group of people that you're communicating with or to has heard you and has taken in your message the way that you intended.
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That's something I'd love to leave your listeners with because it's not something we often talk about in terms of communication. There's two sides. You've got to meet your listeners where they are. So when we're talking about giving and receiving feedback, for example, you can't just give feedback and expect somebody to take it regardless of what it is. You have to meet them where they are. And this is something that's very hard to do on your own. So if it's an area that you want help with,
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reach out. There are so many resources available. There are tons of coaches. There are tons of books. There are podcasts. There are all kinds of things, something to just think about. Something to think about words of wisdom from Rachel Redway, the CEO and founder of RER coaching, who is specializing in organizational culture and leadership development. Rachel.
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If I don't let you go, we never gonna stop talking. We could talk for a while more, yes. We certainly could. So you have to come there for another show. I would love to, Roberta. For sure, you're most welcome. And before you go, where can we find you so we can continue to have a conversation with you? So I can be found at rercoaching.com or on LinkedIn under Rachel Radway.
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You can also email me at rachelatrercoaching.com. And if I could just throw in really quickly, I would love to offer your listeners a free call. If they have an issue that they wanna talk about, something that they'd like to resolve, something that they'd like to work through, please feel free to reach out to me and schedule something on my calendar and I will help you work it out and we'll see where things go from there.
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Excellent. I will put your calendar link on the show notes when this is published so that they will know how to reach you. Thank you for that gift, by the way. That's a big one. Thank you, Rachel. I love doing it. Yes. Excellent stuff. Thank you so much, Rachel Radway. Thank you for joining the Speaking and Communicating podcast once again. If you have a guest that you think would be a great fit for the show,
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please email me and my contact details will be found on the show notes. The Speaking and Communicating podcast is part of the Be Podcast Network, where there are many other podcasts that support you in being a better leader and becoming the change you want to see. To learn more about the Be Podcast Network, go to BePodcastNetwork.com.
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