Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating Podcast. I'm your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please log on to iTunes and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Let's get communicating.
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Now we focus so much on leadership and my guest today is actually a researcher on leadership strategy. Her name is Karan Rhodes. She is an author. She specializes in leadership research and strategy and blended workforces. If you're wondering what that all means, stay tuned because she has so many insights to bring on these topics.
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And before I go any further, please help me welcome her to the show. Hi, Karan. Hi there. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being here. Welcome to the show. Please tell us a little bit my pleasure about yourself. Oh gosh, I could take the whole show, but the short version is that I am the founder of a company called shockingly different leadership. We.
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nickname SDL for short, but I'm really passionate about helping people and workforces do their best work and serve our communities in the best way possible. I am a wife, mother, auntie, friend, you name that title, I'm it as well. And I bring you greetings from Atlanta, Georgia here on the East Coast. The hot Atlanta. I love that.
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And you're a mom to how many? Oh, just one officially, but Auntie and Godmother to many, too many to count. So that is so beautiful. It takes a village. Yeah, of course. Please give us a bit of your background with regards to your career, where you got started and so that we understand how you came to be where you are today. Sure. Well, I will say that.
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From a child, a young child, I've always been fascinated about people and what made them tick, if you will. And I took that love into college where I ended up studying industrial organizational psychology and decided that I didn't want to just be a psychologist. I love business as well. And the perfect blend of people and business ended up being in the field of human resources and leadership and organizational development.
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So that's where I got my bachelor's and advanced degrees, graduate degrees in these fields, and spent my career really not being in the single box all by itself. There were some organizations that I was the head of HR, the others that I led leadership development, others I led areas called organizational development, organizational effectiveness.
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but they were all dealing with the people side of work, if you will. So my whole career has been focused on empowering employees and individuals to be high-performing professionals and take on leadership roles if they were interested. So would that be leadership development, helping employees become leaders eventually?
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heavily in leadership development. Some is just pure talent development and just effectiveness because not everyone, although I say everyone has the capability to be a leader even if you don't have an official leadership title per se, but then some individuals have a passion just to be.
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the best at what they are in their role in profession without being like a people leader per se. And so, you know, making sure that they also have the support that they needed has always been important to me as well. Yeah, we certainly do talk about that other option of horizontal growth. Yes. Staying an expert in what you are instead of leaving people. Some people really.
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They say, I'm literally not going to opt for that. Right. That's right. And it's okay. People need to know that's okay. We need the steady eddies and those that just want to go deep in their particular role, because they may have passions outside of the world of work where they want to invest that time. So it's okay. It's totally all right. No matter what you want to do. For sure.
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So you are the author of Lead at the Top of Your Game. What a beautiful title. Thank you. My pleasure. You have seven habits of successful leaders. Would you like to take us through those? I would, I would love to. And just so your listeners and audience know, this is based on about five years of research. So it's nothing that just came out my head. It was based on some detailed global research. And we, and my team,
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researched over 10,000 leaders across the globe who were deemed as high performers at their employers or in their business or industry. And what we were trying to understand is what were the keys to success that these individuals did that 95% of the other population didn't do as effectively? So why were they the ones who were
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got the status or labeled as some of the top performing leaders and what encompassed all that. To keep a long story short, we identified over a hundred traits or behaviors that contributed to their success, but was was very interesting as the data showed that there was a real line of separation or demarcation between these top seven that I'm going to share with you and the rest of them.
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And what was also interesting is these top seven were applicable no matter where you live, your geography, your industry or your job function. So we thought, hey, if we could share these with the world and help upskill people in these seven, then hopefully we can help support better leadership across the globe. And so I'd love to share the seven with you, if that's OK. Please do. Yes. OK. So the.
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First one is people who led with what we call intellectual horsepower were very successful and intellectual horsepower is all about your ability to take your areas of expertise and knowledge and to what we call pick around corners and spot trends that others miss. So if you're able to use your expertise to see things that others don't see and bring them to the table for your team or your organization that was considered very value added.
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The second one was leading with courageous agility and courageous agility is all about having the courage and the fortitude to move forward and do what you think is right. Even if the future is unclear those stepping your toe in the water and making sure that you're making forward progress based on what you think is right. Even if everything is not spelled out or you don't know what's going to be the end result. That was very important as well.
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The third one is leading with what we call stakeholder savvy. Stakeholder savvy is kind of sister to emotional intelligence. It's all about understanding and work with those you're working with or talking to or collaborating with and adjusting your behavior based on the situation. So maybe there's one situation you're in a social setting with colleagues, friends, clients, vendors, and there's a way you approach things.
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And then there might be a time when you're negotiating a super important deal and you have to be focused and really build your influence skills to help bring them along for the journey. So switching based on your, the situation you're in, but still being able to influence others is stakeholder savvy. The fourth one is, uh, leading with a drive for results. And that's just what it says. It's being very tenacious about achieving your end goal, even if you have to pivot along the way.
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So making sure that you ultimately achieve your goals. The fifth one is leading with executive presence. And the way we define executive presence is all about having very clear and convincing perspectives and presentations in order to influence others. So having that grit, if you will, to really have the confidence to share your thoughts.
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in a way that resonates with your audience and is able to influence them is very, very important. The sixth one is leading with strategic decision-making. That is what it is. It's about either making good decisions yourself or leading a good decision-making process with others. And then the last one is leading with what we call intrapreneurship. Intrapreneurship is all about being able to improve upon
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products, services or processes, no matter what environment you're in. So if you're able to lead with these and any leadership initiative that you do and communicate them effectively, then your chances dramatically increase for you to be able to lead at the top of your game. Excellent, so the seventh. Minif-T-Con number two, courageous agility. Yes, that's a popular one.
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Oh, okay. There's this conundrum or this catch 22 for leaders of one moment. I have to accomplish all of these. I have these deadlines. I have, we have to finish this project. But at the same time, do I have time to then think of the nuances that, or let's just get things done. Is it challenging for them for leaders to be agile?
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to go with the flow while at the same time, having these stringent deadlines and tasks that have to be accomplished by them and their teams. It is, it's something that everyone struggles with. There's not a leader that I've met. Um, and I've met a lot, as you can tell with all the research that does not struggle with that. What we try to coach them to do is to balance it in the best way that they can. Because being a leader, you're going to have to deal with those deadlines. There are some.
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drop deadlines that cannot be moved, while you're also going to have to be very agile based on new challenges or situations or new demands or asks that come your way. You're absolutely correct that having the courage to move forward, even when there's so much flux or other requests out there for you, it takes time to have to manage.
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I won't say not everybody does that well, you know, and they'll admit to it. Some do better than others. Yeah, for sure. It's the self-awareness of okay. And now the third one, stakeholder saving. This is going to be interesting. I came to America at the beginning of the pandemic. And when it comes to the black community, there's this terminology, which is code switching and it sounds like something that doesn't have a
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positive connotation to it unless I misunderstood it. That would have been- Having to be a different person in different situations and a different person at work versus when I'm with my people, so to speak. And I used to ask my friends that say, is that wrong though? Because it sounds to me when you describe stakeholder serviceness is, you are not the same Karen every single situation, every single time in different social circles. That's just not possible. No.
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Why is that seen here as, or you're trying to do something, you're not, but you should be in different situations. I'm not this person at work. Yes. Well, I think the challenges, you know, America has a lot of challenges, but I think the challenge, especially for marginalized communities or people of color is that they feel that in order to reach their goals and to keep their.
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careers are on track or build their businesses in the way that they will like to build them, they feel they must not offend or deeper connect those decision-makers who are usually quite honestly Caucasian males. So adapting in a way that is not putting them off for those that they need their buy-in in order to succeed.
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is something that a lot of people struggle with. And I do agree. You should be able to have your different personalities at home and friends. And when you volunteer, it might be different than when you are at work. But I think a point is made in the US community around if you really want to accelerate your success, you'll need to make sure you're not rocking the boat of others that may be uncomfortable because they
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look different than you or think different than you. And I think it's more of an American specific thing, because as I shared with you before, I consider myself a citizen of the world. I travel quite extensively and I've not felt that in other countries to the extent I've felt it in the US. I will say, you know, we recognize differences globally, but the emphasis is a lot different here in the state.
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Like I said, I'm asking as well, and not to say that my opinion on it is the right one, but I was just, when you described stakeholder service, it sounded to me like there were some commonalities with what's been described. It is a little. It's under the same umbrella, but I think even globally, there's a way to be savvy enough to approach others so that it's almost like an olive leaf, and I'll give you a quick example.
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Part of my team is in Tokyo and in Asia Pacific, there are a lot of different business etiquette type of situations that are vastly different than North and South America or in Africa or what have you. So making sure you're not offending and meeting people where they are and being respectful is very important. And if you're not offending them, that increases the chance that they will
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you know, listen to you and gain their buy-in basically. Yeah. Sure. And then with executive presence, what would you say is the one thing or one quality you should have in order to influence others as a leader? Well, when you're leading with executive presence, you know, I always tell people your presentation or even if you're a leader, it's not about you. It's about who you're trying to influence.
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So the first thing you should always try to do is understand the people that you were talking to are trying to influence. What is their number one goal? What is top of mind? Ask questions. If you don't know it already by the time you're presenting, you need to start your presentation with questions up front so that you are speaking to the pain points or the things that they're needing to understand in order to follow you or you know or support you.
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It's all about understanding that other person first or other entity first, and then adjusting your positioning to better meet them halfway and positioning yourself to be the right person to follow up by from. It depends upon whether you're your employer, you own a business, but think of the target audience or entity first before you go in trying to present an influence.
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Mm-hmm, which makes complete total business sense. Now, you talk about leadership triggers. What would those be? They're very similar to the traits that I just talked about, but there are some of these seven that more resonate with you than others. And what we do, I have an assessment called a leadership tactics diagnostic. Part of that assessment is helping you understand.
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what best influences you so that you can inform your teams how to best communicate with you. For example, I'm a people person so stakeholder savvy is big with me. If you come to me with a presentation and you have checked in with all the key stakeholders that are going to be affected by our project, let them weigh in and have brought the pros and cons, that will help me feel comfortable.
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in buying in on the leadership initiative that you're wanting to do. I know that's my trigger. That's what makes me feel comfortable in following you and that's good to know. And we all have one of these that triggers us to want to support others and that's what we help you define via the assessment. And is that also part of your work as a strategist? Yes, it is. It is.
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Absolutely. Now I want to be clear and let your listeners know all seven are equally important. You will use one or more of them more than others in different situations as well. There's some times that you're going to need to bring intellectual horsepower to the table like bringing new things that others miss that they're when they're trying to improve processes. That's when they'll value intellectual horsepower but there's other times when
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you will need to, like we said, present to others. So that's when your executive presence kicks in. So the situation you're going through will depend upon what you're gonna lean on at any point in time, but all seven, knowledge and all seven are very equally important. I had a guest in the prior episodes who said, an effective leader actually creates leaders in his team so that they can replace them, so to speak.
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And I said, but what did he really want to do? He fired and they say, we don't need you. You don't have a job anymore. So actually, if you can be replaceable, that shows you a demonstration of your success as a leader. It does, yes. And you want to be replaced so that that brings you up to do the next great thing that you're called upon to do.
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One of the things that stifles leaders is when you don't have the talent and the skills on your teams or in your groups to do what you've brought to the table and you're stuck where you are because there's nobody else that can do what you do. A great leader does cultivate talent and bring people along the way. We call it don't leaving dead bodies in the wake. And I actually named one of my chapters in the book around that.
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And for those who don't know, a wake is what the water that trails a boat when it goes down a river or what have you. And the phrase means you want to make sure that as you are excelling your leadership, that you're not leaving people unprepared behind you. And then we call that, you know, not leaving dead people in the wake. Yeah. Right. The term landed.
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Yes, yes. How could you come up with that? Well, actually, that's a concept. I didn't come up with it. It's something that really exists in the world of human resources. But blended workforces is a mix of internal and external talent to get the job done for companies. So more and more the way the world is going, you're not just having employees do work for organizations.
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You're having employees, you're having vendors who are external, you're having consultants who are external, and now we have the whole phenomenon of machine learning and AI, all of those are entities that help to get the work done. And leaders are now having to manage all of that for those who are in the U S you know, we have very stringent employment laws on how you can.
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approach employees versus contractors. And then you bring AI into it as a leader, you're having to manage the work of all of these. It is very, very complicated. So that is a major issue that a lot of chief human resources officers are having to tackle right now. And which then brings another extra challenge for leaders to manage. Yes. Not only I. As if we had enough, right already. Yeah.
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And then you researched not only what you've shared with us in this episode today, but you continue to study current mega trends, workplace mega trends. Would you like to tell us what's been going on lately that we need to know? Yes. Well, one of them I mentioned, the whole technology slash AI discussion is huge right now for business and people leaders.
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Um, and staying on top of that and understanding how to integrate those or whether to integrate those in their organizations is one of the top mega trends. Another is as you've seen around the world, there's a lot of major companies that are laying off or downsizing or right sizing as some like to say. And so that's creating a lot of anxiety, I guess, in the market around talent. You know, the war for talent is still on.
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But having to manage through all of this, especially in times when companies, when they lay people off, the works doesn't go away. So that means a lot of the employees are still having to pick up a lot of work that their colleagues left behind. So there's under resourcing that's going on and employee morale is taking a hit. So that's another thing that's top of mind right now. And then the third thing I'd love to mention is just the whole geopolitical dynamics.
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It used to kind of be in the world of work, we avoided topics like politics and religion and things that are going on around the world in the workplace, but now it is being more and more infused into the workplace and having to navigate all of those things in different perspectives is quite challenging for leaders and HR staff. Definitely things that we need to continue to watch out for.
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Is there one thing that you thought I should have asked you today that you were hoping to share with our listeners? You've done a great job. You're a great questioner. Oh, you're so kind. Thank you, Karan. But I will just say one thing. I know the world can be challenging right now, but I want to encourage your listeners to take an active part in leading at the top of your game.
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You are the guide for your destiny. And one of my mentors told me, and it's always stuck with me, is that you've got to be at the table to play at the game. Meaning you have to want to be there, make change in order to kind of lead your colleagues and stakeholders in the direction that you want them to go into. So take a chance, don't be shy. You bring just as much to the table that everybody else does.
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And we need the gifts that you can bring to the world. So be courageous. Be courageous indeed. The words of wisdom from Karan Rhodes, the leadership strategist, author, and researcher, author of Lead at the Top of Your Game, best selling book that you can get hold of at Amazon and on your website.
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Yes, Amazon and on my website. And we also have a podcast called lead at the top of your game, the podcast. And so people want additional insights. We invite them to listen in as well. We can be the sister podcast to you. Please. Yes. Excellent. Lead at the top of your game podcast on iTunes and Spotify and many other streaming sites and before it goes, so please give us your website. Yes. Our website is.
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shockingly different.com shockingly different.com. Beautiful company name. Thank you. Shockingly different.com CEO and founder, Karan Rhodes. Thank you so much for being on our show. I've had a great time today. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a rating and a review on iTunes and Spotify and stay tuned for more episodes to come.