Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Anything that moves the conversation one step forward is a win for you and each time you will hone that message. It's a missing skill that a lot of engineers need to develop just by changing a few words and phrases. Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating Podcast. I'm your host, Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into.
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And by the end of this episode, please log on to iTunes and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Let's get communicating!
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As we focus on communication skills, especially with my experience in engineering, my guest today, Deborah Ann Coviello, who goes by Deb, she and I have so much in common when it comes to our careers and how we observed and noticed how communication skills, especially in STEM professions, affect your career progression.
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And before I go any further, please help me welcome her to the show. Hi Deb. Hey Roberta, thank you so much for the opportunity to just have a very back and forth conversation and the opportunity to share some of our insights with your listeners. Thank you for being here. Please tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, just thank you so much again. And a little bit about myself personally. Family is such an important part of who I am. I'm married to my best friend for over 33 years.
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We are originally from the East Coast of the United States, New Jersey, but I now reside in Cincinnati, Ohio. I've had the good fortune of raising three amazing children, very international. My eldest now resides in Switzerland with his wife working and studying. My middle son currently resides in Germany and he is serving in the U.S. Army.
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And then finally, my third child, a daughter, recently finished a study abroad in Florence, Italy, is now back home finishing her degree in architecture. So I'm grateful for that, love community, love cooking for others. Also, just on a personal note, I also love and participate in the sport of curling, which is often known in colder climates where we throw stones on ice, sweep, and yell to get a desired result, also an Olympic sport.
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So I'm very passionate about that sport, but also I just love talking and speaking and love the platform of podcasting for which you and I have come together. So that's just a little bit about me. I absolutely love that. Yes, we certainly do love speaking. And that's one of the things we have in common. I am so in awe of your children having this international perspective. I don't know if you've noticed, but doesn't traveling open up a whole new world?
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once you step out of your territory and you learn about different people? Yes, I completely agree with that because while we want to trust, you know, the environment of our society, what we read, what we hear, what we see, and we can appreciate or not appreciate what we have. And once you travel abroad, first of all, there is richness in understanding other society's cultures, their language, where they came from. So there's this enriching.
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opportunity when you see people in other cultures. But you also gain alternative perspective about how they perceive your culture, which is enlightening, and you can take that in. And also, you can afford or enjoy the uniqueness of their culture. Transportation in Europe is amazing as compared to what we're currently realizing in the U.S. The infrastructure, etc. The diversity of food, the diversity of language, my children sincerely appreciate. But all three of them have also then said,
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We can appreciate those cultures, but we also prefer to come back home at some point. And they've also traveled to other places, Thailand, Turkey. I've been to Singapore. Again, appreciation for the human element and also a higher appreciation for what we have. Absolutely, always it starts at home. Now back to speaking. So before you became a podcaster and author and coached on communication skills.
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What was your career background? Oh, well, let's just go back a way bit because I will tell you as a child, I was extremely creative, speaking, talking, singing, writing. My whole family thought I was going to go into communication, journalism, maybe acting, and something happened along the way. I cannot put my finger on it. I switched over to being strongly interested in science and math.
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for which I excelled in those areas later going into university to study biology and then later biomedical engineering. And I had another pivotal point for which I realized I love the sciences, but I also didn't want to continue to go to medical school or graduate school. So I took the decision. I enjoyed manufacturing. I had the great opportunity to be exposed to manufacturing in my final years of college and pursued a manufacturing environment. And what I loved about that, it's very creative.
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that you take nothing or raw ingredients or inputs and convert it and change it and send it out the other side for which people can appreciate that product or service. I just loved that conversion, that operations. So I honed my skills in an area of quality and operational excellence, how to make things better, faster, cheaper and safer, which again, was a high risk area, had never been exposed to. And I sincerely appreciate them.
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the opportunity not only to use my engineering skills to solve problems, but as I ascended, I learned and soon realized my greatest gift became my leadership capability, my ability to deeply listen to conversation or conflict and be able to have clarity on what the problems were and move teams forward, which then converted into the ability to remove barriers, help people with their essential skills. So the really, really smart people, the engineers, the scientists around me,
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could then solve problems versus being faced with barriers. And so that's kind of the route that my career has taken. And now I still drop into organizations and I'm a business advisor to those C-suite leaders on the technical issue and operations and quality. But my greatest passion and love is to help the C-suite leaders of tomorrow. We can fix the business issues, but the better thing that we do is increase their communication, their essential or soft skills so they can perform at a higher...
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level in the new environment. And so that's the work I love to do and a bit about my career path. It's funny that we sometimes say, oh, you know, that was the industrial age. Now we talk about soft skills and everything has become more human centered, so to speak. Are we off in assuming that in the manufacturing sector, we don't have the emphasis on soft skills that we do in usual corporate offices? Yeah, I mean, in the manufacturing environment,
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I don't see at least where I've been exposed a lot of coaching and mentoring of those skills into what they do, if that's what your question is. We hire people for their technical skills. We have a hole, we have a void, and we hire people specifically for those technical skills and expect them to execute. Unless people have it coming in the door from their home environment community or their university opportunity, those skills...
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are not really developed. And some people take advantage of speaking classes or they have an opportunity to go maybe into a business course. Maybe they've had a mentor or a coach along the way, but I would say that is far and few. And the challenges I see in the manufacturing environment is that only 5% or 10% of the people are modeling the right behavior, have been exposed, have gotten positive for constructive feedback that they can action on, leaving so many people in the manufacturing space
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unable to move into greater roles with breadth or higher roles with depth because we've just never developed those skills. So it's a huge void in developing the future leaders. And you said you displayed leadership qualities when you were still in your manufacturing career. Was it because you had already been promoted to a leadership position? Because sometimes we ask the question, should I wait until I'm promoted to show that I can be a leader?
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Well, this question may be very unique to me. I just like to speak up. I like to speak my mind. I never like being closed or held back. So I naturally would raise my hand either to answer questions or offer proposals or what have you. So I've always all along my career, even in my education, I always said, Oh, can I answer that question? I was always an extrovert in that perspective.
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when I really knew my stuff, I wanted to share. And so I think I was already leading with that. I even remember in college, there was an instance where we had this leadership development course for a year for aspiring STEM professionals. And I got into that because I was just very articulate in expressing my ideas and with being able to do that, whether you know the answers or not, people naturally see you as a leader.
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So I was already showing myself, I was already showing up whether good, bad or indifferent for which then not only did I deliver technically, I could articulate for which then I was identified to move forward. So the key is display those leadership qualities first because that's what gets you to the next level. Yes, I mean, we can use the expression need to be seen, heard and respected. Whether it's good or bad, we need to put ourselves out there. It's about that courage.
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to go first, the courage to express, because often if you are thinking it and you express it, others may be also thinking it, but you had the courage to be seen first. And even if what you say is not right, and unfortunately society will give you a negative grade or a bad grade if you say something out of turn, you could always learn something from it, even if you're in an environment that just squashes you. If you were to take the time to reflect,
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What could I have done differently? Ask a colleague, how could I have positioned that presentation in a different way? The key to leadership is not only putting yourself forward, having the courage to say what needs to be said, but also being reflective and processing feedback or lack of feedback to be able to say, what can I change to have a different impact? All leadership skills that need to be developed. But it starts with having the courage to raise your hand and speak up. Remember when we were in school and they would say, ask the dumb question?
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because half the class is already thinking of it, but nobody's got the courage to raise their hand and say whatever they think the stupid question is. And it turns out it wasn't stupid because more than half the class is thinking the same thing. They would even ask the next time, say, Roberta, you're going to ask for us. You are seen as the undesignated class leader, so to speak. Yeah. And if there's a study group, then you're sought out like, hey, we need Roberta or Deb in that study group because she's going to ask the question. And with asking questions, the dumb question.
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All of us learn in a different way at a different pace. And when the teacher or the leader shares the knowledge and you're able to process it, the greater opportunity is to be able to reframe and share what you heard for clarification. And so often when you do that, first of all, you're confirming understanding and you may articulate the message or the information trying to be communicated in a way that the masses can understand. That is a deep.
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listening and communication skills to be able to hear and reframe for understanding. We're doing a little spot coaching to our audience right now, but just think about that. Don't be afraid. I'll tell you about 80% of the time people will appreciate that you speak up. And then you said engineers, which we know they are problem solvers. We boxed them into this. Oh, you're an engineer. You must be an introvert.
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And therefore they think as long as they do all their technical work quietly, they've delivered. If they are problem solvers, shouldn't we be hearing more from them rather than less, which is what we need. So we need to encourage that behavior to speak up because, again, we as engineers are celebrated for dotting our I's and crossing our T's. And we are admonished when the data is incorrect.
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reiterates a behavior of being quiet until you've absolutely processed every detail or data point before you speak up. We make them risk averse because of expectations we set for them for perfection. Now, on the flip side, we as leaders who are in the room with STEM professionals, engineers, it is our duty to try to encourage the behavior, ask people for their opinion. People like to be asked. And if you do that,
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you will start seeing those engineers and skilled technical people start coming forth with their opinion. At the same time, we also need to help them express their information such that it resonates with everybody. So again, we as leaders need to pull it out of them. I ask for you as engineers, if you are in the right environment, seek feedback on how to speak up and do it in a way that provides value to the every group. And hopefully you're not in an environment that
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squelches your creativity if you happen to make a mistake. If you receive feedback, especially if you don't know how to take it, if it's not positive feedback, obviously, you're going to feel squashed and therefore you won't be as engaged, you won't be as forthcoming with whatever opinion or even innovative idea you might have.
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Yeah, and it's one of those things we have to take accountability for our own development. So what if the environment, the leader, or some other stakeholder comes down on you and starts questioning your data? Or maybe you made a mistake or you didn't double check, or you didn't consider other inputs or the impact of what you're doing. Some people just haven't developed those skills in providing feedback in a positive or actionable way. If you're in that environment,
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Don't feel down about the feedback you have, but maybe seek a colleague that was in the room or somebody impartial to say, this is what I did as an input. This is what I received in terms of an output. What do you think? What do you see as something that maybe I could change in my delivery to get a more constructive or positive outcome? So again, we as engineers have to take personal accountability, seek that counsel, and maybe we can show up in a different way that doesn't receive that feedback.
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I like that earlier you spoke about how just changing a few words in the presentation, putting it in a different light or delivering a message in a different way can make all the difference. Please explain that to us again. Yeah, so this is something I talk about to a lot of people that are seeking to struggle less and be able to navigate with more confidence. And often we teach our engineers to say, here's the data.
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And here's the action we need to take in response to the data. And so often, leaders will either not understand, they'll deflect, they'll delay a decision, or maybe say, let's take that offline, leaving engineers or technical experts very frustrated. And one of the things that I find is that we need to add a few more words or phrases into their messaging on what they're saying. So let me give you an example.
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I come from the quality area for which we often will have test equipment to verify if something is good or bad before shipping. And in one situation when a piece of equipment is getting outdated, it can no longer do what it's supposed to do. And then the impact is you have customer complaints. So an example of bad is an engineer goes in and says, we need to spend $10,000 on a new piece of equipment to minimize the possibility of defects getting out. They got the chart, they got the data.
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and that they're met with silence, adversity, or what have you. What I propose that they do instead is present the data. Is it good or bad? Is it an opportunity or risk? And what is the magnitude of doing something or not doing anything? So that engineer could have said, rather than I think we need to spend $10,000 on this piece of equipment so we don't let out defects. A better way to have articulated might be,
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We are having a high level of customer complaints. And with the purchase of a new piece of equipment that replaces our old, that will be better at catching those defects, it will reverse the negative trend we've been seeing with an ROI in two quarters, we'll be able to have improved customer performance and maintain client loyalty. There is so much more in there, knowing your numbers, knowing your facts, and what is the higher level?
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impact of what you're trying to do, that will wake up people to say, oh, well, tell me more, show me your data, or I don't believe you. Anything that moves the conversation one step forward is a win for you, and each time you will hone that message. It's a missing skill that a lot of engineers need to develop just by changing a few words and phrases. Would you agree that the first example was just presenting data and facts, and the second one you gave was...
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what we call business storytelling. Exactly. It's popping in. Yeah, storytelling. We're supposed to check that at the door when you are in elementary or the lower grade school. We are now going to deliver on projects and proposals and data and you're going to take tests. And we stop storytelling. And then all of a sudden it shows up again in business. We'll read to our children, our nieces or nephews, storytelling, we'll tell stories as a kid.
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You've actually hit on a point that makes me a little bit sad and frustrated. We as humans, our cultures are based on telling stories and history. And we're told to check that at the door when we go into business. But by enriching to your point, our conversations, our proposals, our examples with examples or stories from the past or stories of the future, people can relate to it. So you bring up a point about, you know, relatability.
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tell stories, tell the impact, put a customer persona around it, that is going to resonate more and help you move your ideas forward. It's amazing to me because like you said, that's what changes and moves the conversation forward. Whoever your audience is, whether it's finance people, legal people, whatever it is, you actually give them a picture, the full human experience behind the product as well. It's something that unless you've taken some business or communication courses, we
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technical professionals never learn the art of marketing. And what is marketing meant to do, but to either change a narrative, promote something, influence people's decisions or perceptions about things. And we don't teach that to our professionals, but if we can market our idea, shop it around with a few people before we actually do the presentation, get their input, get some early advocacy.
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Maybe they might say, hey, make sure you put an example underneath that trend chart, so people understand the point that you're making. All of that is marketing and messaging that if our leaders, our technical people can learn a few tips in that area, they are going to be far more satisfied. They can move their projects forward and they've learned some skills and also in the process, other people are watching. They might learn those skills at the same time. They've become contagious.
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And then let's talk about navigating change. You help your clients navigate change. What is it that we fear about change so much? Oh, because, well, there's this expression called deer in the headlight where they know that they have to accomplish something, but they have no idea how to do it. And most of the clients that I've had the opportunity to work with and I've gotten referred to are those people that are at a place where either
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There's usually a change in the environment. They're very, very technically capable. They've run businesses or business units for a long time, but then the conditions change that they have no experience. It could be the business is purchased, there is an increase in sales, there is a very different customer or regulatory requirement for which they say, yes, I'll do that. And then they say, I have no idea how to do that. But those leaders have the awareness and the courage to ask for help for which...
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I, the drop-in CEO, will drop in and understand not only the business problem they perceive, but also the opportunity that you don't yet realize, and then move them forward from being totally blown away during the headlight to feeling a sense of calm because we started to create a roadmap to move them forward, and they get clarity because they can see the end. Same principle applies in our personal lives as well. We fear change because we don't have a
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or where we are is the known. We know exactly what this is, even if it's not the best. The thing that's coming, we don't know it. I think that's where the fear comes from. So I'll tell you on a personal note, personal story, you know, you and I were trying to build businesses so we can be in service to others, but I know certain truths or certain things to be true about what I wanna do. I wanna increase my reach.
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I want to increase my network. I want to invest in myself, give myself more tools and platforms because I can see the end. I see the end being on a stage, having a whole bunch of people, other consultants, advisors around me, such that we can help more and more businesses. The truth, I don't know how to get there, but I have a vision and I know that there's incremental things I need to do. I need certain people in my network, certain resources. I know I need to get some better.
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I need to do a few more webinars. I need to go on the road to meet some of these people. I'm still not sure how to get there, but at least I could break it down into small chunks and be able to get there. And that's how I help other people, whether it's developing their skills, evolving their business through a change. We're pretty sure what the end looks like, but we also appreciate the ambiguity and at least moving forward with what makes sense and being agile if we try something and it doesn't work.
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My role, our role as a leader is to try to move people forward versus being paralyzed by what they only know and unsure about the future. Have you, in your experience, talking about ask somebody for help, network, do you find that a lot of engineers do ask for a mentor or somebody that can help them with these soft skills? Because usually the technical, they've got that down. But when it comes to soft skills, do they see the need to invest in themselves with these communication skills?
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or they just think I'm good at my job. I'm sorry, go ahead. I'm good at my job. And I think what it is is you and I both are in the same place. We see so many talented people, so we're kind of finishing each other's words and sentences. And it's one of those things, I think the majority don't know or don't believe they need help because they only know what they know. Give me a project, let me develop, design, produce, and they're happy and they're rewarded and they'll keep going.
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only the few that have either been put in a position of leadership because they're technically competent and start failing, and sometimes a coach is forced upon them, or only the few that say, you know, I am aware that I'm not getting the results. I want to have greater impact and I'm not sure. I know personally, I've been part of the American Society for Quality. I have mentored a few engineers. Oh, I love it when they can get through to the other side because what I'm finding is...
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If they don't step out of their comfort zone, they'll never gonna sense a loss of confidence. And I think engineers just like being in a safe place and confident about doing the work, learning a few new skills along the way, but not a lot step out for which they get uncomfortable, they lose their confidence. And then those are the ones that the 10, the 15, maybe 20% that say, I need a little bit of help. Let me go to a course, let me get a coach, let me get a mentor through my professional organization. But I wish more would see that
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that the coach or a mentor is not just for when you're having problems, but helping you now and maybe setting a path forward for when you do want to do more or go higher in the organization. But I don't think enough seek the help because maybe they're not aware or maybe we haven't presented them those options. Because I will come across engineers, I'm actually one of my clients right now as a highly technical organization, and they're very articulate, they know their engineering points, but I am seeing how they operate and function and interact and how they speak up.
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and it's just accepted or people will go quiet and you have to go to them offline to get their feedback. Somehow it works, but I don't see people developing the skills for which I'm trying to actually coach them on how to get a different result. So a lot of them are not aware or they're just uncomfortable about stepping out and even asking for help. So that's why you and I are out there to try to encourage people to say, there's a better way of performing so you don't have to struggle as much. Well, sure. They don't have to struggle.
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Why did you call your podcast the Drop-in CEO? The Drop-in CEO, that phrase was an accident. It was in the depths of my mind when I was interviewed on a podcast. And they asked me, what do you do? So what I'd said was, well, I'm like the Drop-in CEO. I drop into situations, assess the landscape. I work with the business leader, solve the issue and elevate the people.
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their skills for lasting impact. And then you pull me out and I go on to the next one, but I've left the impact for which they can perform. And after the podcast interview, they said that was brilliant. Where did the drop in CEO come from? And I said, I'm not sure, but then I was remembering when I was in a technical company many years ago, coming up in my career, we were struggling. We were pre IPO for which they dropped in a new CEO.
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And that person rolled up their sleeves and worked with myself and the director of operations to not only solve the technical issues we were having in production, but also elevating our skills and making us feel good. And once we got over that hump and we were getting ready to go IPO, they pulled out that CEO and dropped in a new CEO and leadership team to take us to the next level. It was that moment that I realized that's the way I operate. I solve technical issues and elevate the people.
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as part of a comprehensive package to set them up for the future. It took me five months to own that brand, to own that name, for which then I said, you know what, I'm going to push the button and start a podcast called The Drop-in CEO. And that's my brand, that's my website. And it's unique. It is different than just being a consultant or an advisor. That is so beautifully put and how it came together because that's essentially what you do. So you work with small and medium businesses.
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in dropping in, solve the problem, elevate the people. When it comes to elevating the people, how do you elevate teams, especially in this environment of hybrid and everybody feeling a little lost and adjusting to this new normal? So I think there's something we've forgotten that's to thread through and through. It's something that I think we didn't do it well before the pandemic and we certainly are not doing it.
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as well now. The pandemic gave us an opportunity to come together and still do work remotely. But when we came to those platforms, we immediately got down to business and would execute the agenda or the task at hand. What is underdeveloped and needed more now than ever are those check-ins. If you are not already having one-on-ones with your people regularly now more than ever, you should because you need to have those conversations outside of just doing business.
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The other thing that was never really there, and again, now more than ever, because we're not physically in the room to see our body language, are our shoulders rolled forward as our head dropped low, showing disengagement or maybe we're preoccupied. I have often proposed to leaders that when we check in with our people, don't just get to where's that report and how's that project going. But now more than ever ask people how do they feel? Just ask them how they feel. Just check in, take a moment, connect with humanity.
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And then go into a little bit about, hey, personal development, what do we need? What are those skills, those soft skills that you need to be able to remove barriers and do the work, the strategic and the technical? We need to do more of that now. And if we weren't doing that before the pandemic, let's start now, even with a remote workforce, because people will respect you because you simply ask, how are you feeling? And what essential skills do you need to close? Because I will tell you, and this is in my book,
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Leaders that focus just on the results and the technical skills will only get those technical skills or technical results. And they'll be on the cycle of beating their people to get the result. And then when everybody high fives and they back away, then they start dipping down again. What they fail to do is get to a place of peace of mind. And peace of mind is when we assess people's confidence and their capacity and capability and close those gaps and essential skills, you start removing their barriers and you can unleash their potential.
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They know the technical work, but focus on reducing those gaps by focusing on people development. We need to do that more, especially in a hybrid environment, because the people are feeling disconnected. That will bring them back in and feel engaged again, because people simply care about how they perform. Yes. I know Simon Sinek is not a fan of calling themselves human-centered skills, which means it's not just technical, but you're dealing with humans here, you're not dealing with machines.
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No, I so agree with that. And I wish between you, I, we could reach so many people and just provide, whether it's a podcast, a webinar, a live event, there are so many great people out there that struggle. And again, all I want them to do is spend more time with their family, friends, community, etc. And there are ways to get great content, great feedback to help them along the way. Absolutely. I'm all for that mission.
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Deb, do you have anything on your website, any resources that our listeners can access? Thank you for that. And I do offer a few things via my website, dropinceo.com. If you go to my product section and click on the Drop-in Collective, it is a complimentary forum for which, if you are that leader out there, that wants to learn a little bit more about networking skills, receive some educational tips and tricks, and spot coaching to help you
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current issue, whether it's a soft skills, people dynamics, etc. I offer that to you. Drop in Collective, we offer it twice a month. I would love to see some of our listeners there get to know each other and see how we can help you navigate with confidence. So thank you again for the opportunity. Absolute pleasure. Thank you for being here. So drop in ceo.com is where you will find all those resources.
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Is there one last thing that you feel I didn't ask you would have loved to share in today's episode? I just want to say to your listeners be confident in your technical capability. You have a voice. You have a great mind. You have a great soul. Please, please, please have the courage to raise your hand and speak up for others who may not have the ability to speak up. It is on you to take that leadership role and just know there are resources along the way.
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to help your voice really be heard and seen and respected. So thank you again. Words of wisdom from Deborah Anne Coviello, who goes by Deb, the founder of Illumination Partners and Business Advisor. Thank you so much for being on our show today, for speaking so eloquently. And I can just tell from the energy of your voice how much you really care about the engineering professionals and helping them with those skills. Thank you for being here. Thank you and be well.
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