Speaking and Communicating Podcast

that is fundamental, it is core to our role and our work. Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I'm your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please log on to iTunes and Spotify. and leave us a rating and a review. Let's get communicating. as it is based on leadership, communication skills. My guest today, Victoria Peltier, is a C-suite executive. She's a keynote speaker, very much in demand. She has authored several books and she's a board director. Today, she will be talking to us about communication skills, how to thrive in the C-suite and so much more in overcoming adversity. Before I go any further, please help me welcome her to the show. Hi, Victoria. Hello, Roberta. Thanks for having me on. Happy to be here. Thank you for being here, taking time off your business schedule. Just a quick check. Did I pronounce your last name correctly? You did. I was so happy. And you didn't even ask me in advance. I appreciate that. Thank you for being here. So please tell us a little bit about yourself. Sure, sure. Well, I am very- proudly a spouse and a mother of, oh my gosh, makes me feel really old, 23 year old and an almost 19 year old. I know. Thank you. Fitness fanatic, foodie, wine lover. That's like the personal side. And then from a career perspective, I'm like now a 20 plus year C-suite executive. First executive role was in my early 20s as a brand new mother in fact, and predominantly business to business experience. in professional services. And then as you mentioned, I sit on multiple boards. I do a lot of authorship, both of content for digital media as well as a book. And I also get a lot of joy out of the public speaking work that I do. You do so much. How do you get to do that all in 24 hours? Because the rest of us have 24 hours in a day too. I have learned very much so how to create boundaries and learn to say no, that's how I do it. No, a very powerful word, which a lot of us women, especially we've been accused of not. always tapping into that word when necessary? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I have this philosophy that if it doesn't bring you personal or professional joy or value, then you do one of three things. You say no, you delegate it, or you outsource it. There you go. So boundaries are very important. First of all, you were promoted to the C-suite in your 20s. How common was that back then, 20 years ago? Uncommon, for sure, for sure. And... To this day, I mean, with the exception of the startup community for certain, where you see lots of people in their late teens and twenties doing that, but it was very uncommon. I'll tell you, for me, it was also quite a stretch role for myself, but I think there was a few reasons why I got recruited into that role. I had been in financial services, leading large scale operations and predominantly contact center operations. And the company that recruited me was what's called BPO, Business Process Outsourcing Company. So companies who outsource, parts of their business to save money or because it's not their core expertise. So whether that's customer service, tech support, sale, like outbound telemarketing, the not sexy stuff. And so I got recruited to be the chief operating officer for one of those organizations that had many financial services clients and it was almost all contact center. So I had a lot of the ticks in the boxes and I also appeared to be very confident, which I do think sometimes confidence is guised as others are seen as competence. So I'm not a believer in fake it till you make it, but I do think you need to, one area you do that is when it relates to your confidence. I also then just surrounded myself with great team members who could fill in the gaps of all the areas in which I didn't have some of the skills. That confidence fit, it reminds me of one of my previous guests said, you have leadership and you have communication skills. If you're not good at communicating as a leader, you are perceived, not that it's reality, but you perceived as not that good in leadership. So, It's a perception thing. Like you said, you perceive to be competent just because you can do that so well. Yeah, exactly. And so I think that's where, you know, as leaders we need to be acutely aware of our shortcomings and educate ourselves, learn to become better at some of the areas where we have challenges and also surround yourselves with people who compliment you in those areas and have the kind of skills and experience that you don't. And before we get deeper into leadership, I just wanted to commend you earlier. I said, Thank you for having been an executive for so long and still in full-time employment, because especially since the pandemic, there's so many people feeling this pressure of, I have to be a coach, I have to be a business person. I have to be a business person. I have to live my job. What is this thing that we are seeing? What is going on? Well, I think it's caused by a few reasons, Roberta. I think the reality that the pandemic caused a lot of people to evaluate their career and what was really important to them. and the enjoyment they got out of the work that they were doing. So I just think it was this contemplative moment where we were sitting in our homes working and seeing people around us being impacted from a health perspective, and unfortunately so many people dying from COVID. So I think that was the opportunity to create perspective to look at, is the work we're doing, is it aligned to the kind of purpose or values or mission-driven organization or type of work that aligns with. my own individual mission and values. So I think it was that. And for many people, this hustle hard notion, at all expense kind of culture that comes in many large corporate environments, people just said, I don't wanna do that anymore. So it was recognizing one that they weren't enjoying the work they were doing and they weren't thriving in it and they no longer wanted to do it. And then the next step of that is, okay, well, if not this, then what? And so recognizing that some of the things maybe they've got joy out of, and maybe that was this one. of leadership and culture and mentorship within the organization. So it's like, well, maybe I make that the full-time gig as becoming some kind of a coach or the health and wellness space. And maybe I'm going to go into once, you know, gyms and things open up to go and be a trainer. And so I think people thought a lot about that without maybe the longer tail thinking or for those who've never been entrepreneurs around understanding what comes with that, particularly when there's not. a lot of income and revenue and then the need to build this foundation to ultimately make a decision to leave full time to go into that. And I also think lastly, like not everyone's cut out to be an entrepreneur. You know, the notion of having to wear all these multiple hats and doing things that again we're not good at, but there's not enough money to fund some of the people you need to bring in who are. And so that's where I think you're seeing this pendulum that swung and now potentially people are coming back around and looking at how to maybe have a little bit more of a portfolio career. where they can do a bunch of things or a day job, plus that kind of passion side projects. I'm glad that there was a lot of that self-awareness, but I hope that people listening especially will think, hey, wait a minute, I shouldn't have to have this pressure to live my job because it seems like the trend now is for the whole world to the entrepreneurs. Yeah, and I think I don't love all these phrases. I think the media has been great at coming up with headlines, the great resignation, the great rethink, the great whatever they're talking about. What it has done for... companies is recognized, they need to expect more and different from their leaders to create a culture in which people feel much more engaged and can thrive and want to be there. So the one thing about this, whatever you want to call it, great thing, great resignation is it's caused companies to pause and recognize they need to do things differently, to create an environment in which people want to stay in versus thinking they need to leave and go create their own like entrepreneurial startup. So you and the SysSuite, you started about 20 years ago. You mentioned the actual technical work you had to do and that qualified you to be there. But now it seems like there's more emphasis on the soft skills. This is gonna sound very much like consultant speak and I've spent a lot of years sort of in that space, but it depends. And it is, I mean, there's definitely a need for functional or technical expertise. So whether you're in finance, you're in technology, you're in marketing, whatever, you need to have that foundation. And it also depends on the level that you're at within the organization. So when you move from like a frontline employee or individual contributor to that first level of leadership is important that you still understand the function or technical skills of the team to help lead them. But then the higher up you get up in the organization, the less important it becomes. And much more of a focus on things like strategy and innovation and what kind of transformation do we need within our organization to stay relevant and current. maintain or grow the wallet share, you know, the total addressable market. So that's where that shift comes. I do think there's foundationally, however, the soft skills. And I, I'm not even sure. I love, I still say it too, soft skills, but like these different skills, let's call them human skills, um, in terms of leading our teams are important at all levels of the organization we were talking about earlier, the communication skills is deemed to be for competence. So again, I think the expectation once you hit an executive level is that some of those skills, you know, are much more critical because of the number of eyeballs and ears listening to you when you get into those kinds of roles. Yes. Simon Sinek, he also says human centered skills. He doesn't like the word soft when talking about them. I had a guest recently who said, soft skills are misogynistic. And I was horrified when he said this, but here's how he explained it. He said they are usually sold to us as feminine centered or something that comes innately natural with females. But when you step into the workplace, you dress up in the masculine and I'm technical and I'm doing my job. What do you think of that perspective? Oh, I don't know what I would have done if I was you Roberta and had someone saying that. I mean, you just said they're human skills, period. And our role as a leader is to build a trusted, authentic relationship with our team. Some of that comes around being vulnerable, showing some emotion, but I don't view that as masculine or feminine. In fact, funny enough, I have a friend, one of these ones who got into executive coaching and spends a lot of time talking about masculine and feminine energy and let's lead into, we had to just kind of agree that we're friends. It's like, we're gonna agree to disagree here. Although when I see her post come up in my life, Social media are real. I like to do this big eye roll and my husband's like, why are you watching it? Like, she's my friend. I'm not like gonna stop following her. We just can't have a conversation because I don't agree. I don't agree. But I made a mistake early in my career in part because I was a 24 year old COO who was 20 years younger than my fellow executives. And I was the only woman at the table. Impostor syndrome, call it whatever you want. But I was afraid myself to be emotional because I thought, do people really? I think I'm a fraud and I really need to belong at the table and I need to be strong and demonstrate that. So I chose not to show any vulnerability or emotion. I was all business all the time. And I actually think it hurt me in my career. I got an unfortunate nickname as the iron maiden at one point. I'm usually at the heart of like large scale transformations that I've done many reorganizations successfully, but that impacts people's livelihood and their careers. And they didn't see that how hard it was for me. And so I had to unlearn that. I had to recognize at some point, not because I'm a woman, I think I needed to demonstrate compassion and building a trusted relationship with my team. And that actually meant being my authentic self that is mush of emotions underneath like the exterior. And it's that actually now has built me this incredible followership in team members who want to come with me as I move to new or different ventures actually the legacy and impact that I want to be known for. The fact that I'm incredibly compassionate, not at a trade-off for strong business results. Actually that helps me deliver those results because I've got a team who understand that I've got their back, that I'm transparent in telling them what's going on and they can trust me. What would you say to a leader who thinks, Victoria have so much on my plate, I don't have time for the mushy stuff. Let's just focus on work. Well, what I think they don't realize is that is fundamental, it is core to our role and our work. And so there's no creation of additional capacity that needs to be made for that. Now, I say that, but I will tell you one of the biggest obstacles for me in undoing how I was showing up at work was walking into, you know, a boardroom or meeting room, not jumping right into the agenda. I actually had to go, whoa, we're gonna take the first five minutes of this meeting to chat about our weekends, to learn a little bit more about what's happening with their children or their aged parent. So I had to be intentional in doing that, but that five minutes got built into the agenda for the meeting. So fundamentally it became my job. This is how I show up. This is how we're gonna operate. This is how I'm gonna build engagement with my team. So I think, you know, people listening to this need to recognize this isn't something extra we do. This is our job. And doing that, does that make the team more productive, more engaged? Oh, 100%. So what we see, I mean, there's data that shows that having a, One, diverse and inclusive culture, and inclusive meaning people feel like they belong in that organization. And belonging comes from recognizing there's a psychologically safe environment to show up as their whole selves, to trust the people around them, and in particular, their leaders. So what we see is there's greater innovation in the companies where that have this kind of environment, problem solving, greater problem solving. And because people feel a sense of engagement, their performance level goes up. So therefore both the top line revenue and profitability are improved. So really doing this is not just the right thing to do for our employees, it's actually the right thing to do for our business and the results and metrics we're measured against. Exactly. Here's the thing about DI and we always emphasize, more productivity and more market share because you're going to have different perspectives. This is one question I haven't asked, which is why is it such a scary idea? to implement DEI in organizations. We always talk about encouraging them based on the data showing that it's gonna benefit them. But what is the fear behind that? I think some companies, the ones that aren't as mature, recognize it as a little bit more of like, I don't wanna say tick in the box, but they recognize it's the right thing to do, but they haven't been able to recognize, much like we were just talking about, how it actually drives business results. So in their minds, it costs more money. It's harder to find diverse talent, particularly in particular industries or functions. You think technology, like the world of STEM, science, technology, mathematics, et cetera. So harder for women, for example, or recognize the four-year college degree for certain populations is less attainable, particularly from a socioeconomic perspective. And so many companies think it's harder, it costs more money. And what happens is they focus on the talent acquisition, bringing diverse talent in the door, but what they see is they're losing people. And so they just see this churn of money spent, but what they don't recognize is it going back again to leadership and creating an inclusive environment that needs to be coupled with this upfront workforce talent acquisition strategy. And so they need to be thinking about it much more from like a broader responsible leadership and business approach versus just a. tick in the box or doing the right thing and recognize that it's this like multifaceted program around diversity and inclusion that not just the chief diversity officer owns, everyone owns. And so that's where I see companies fail when they think a little bit myopically around just having the diverse talent acquisition and workforce versus all of these other elements they need to be focused on. It does sound like a lot of work, especially if you haven't been exposed to those different groups. But then if you think about it, even on a day-to-day basis, if you and I come from the same background, we're the same, everything about us is the same, there are just so many nuances and things I don't have to explain to you. I just know that you would think the same way that I do. Doesn't that make life easier at work and we just execute? Yeah, exactly. And the other thing as well is there's much more of focus now on skills. So stop talking about job titles and this broad job bucket and start talking much more around the skills that we need in business. and hiring and developing people for those skills specifically. And that also creates a very different arc in the way we look at what we have and what we need in our workforces. You have a very interesting phrase. You were called marshmallow inside the turtle. Would you like to explain to us what that means? And how it came about? So my best friend, Jen, has nicknamed me turtle. And that's a result of the fact that I have overcome extreme adversity and trauma in my life. And so the tough turtle exterior with a shell that has the ability to deal with a lot and handle a lot. But the reality is when you look on the inside or you get to know me, you'll recognize that I'm all marshmallow inside. So that tough exterior is really soft on the inside. And I jokingly say, you know, that I cry at the Charmin or the commercials, a toilet paper commercial or the Humane Society, you know, commercial. So understand I'm tough. I'm fair in business, but actually I'm extremely heart centered and incredibly emotional. Heart centered. Wouldn't you say a lot of the time when we go through adversity, wouldn't that turtle heart shell be sort of like our protection so that it doesn't happen again? For sure. I've always been resilient. So, you know, fight or flight. I'm a fighter. Like I'm not running away. I recognized that I could continue to put myself out there and get hurt again, but I'm gonna do it time and time again. I didn't always have a very healthy way of being resilient. I relied upon that tough turtle exterior, that tough shell, as a way to actually almost build walls around me. It was more so actually in my 30s that I started to recognize I needed to have a different way of being resilient. I was very good at compartmentalizing and moving forward and moving on. And I'm like, you need to process that. And so in the moment, Feel the emotion, whatever the emotion is, or park it for a second so you can move forward, but you need to get back to that, process it. You need to be self-reflective and understand why you had that emotion. Do you need to model different thinking? Do you need to model different action or behavior? And also giving yourself permission to fail and just put yourself out there. So I learned this multi-step kind of process for this healthier way of being the turtle. versus one just relying on the fact that I had a tough exterior and shell and I could just plow through and move through anything. Jim Rohn, Tony Robbins' mentor, he used to say, if you block out everything because you've been hurt before, you're going to block out the hurt, yes, but you're going to block out the love too. So everything just gets blocked because you have this wall. That means you're keeping things that are good for you out of the way just because, oh, I've been hurt and I don't want that to do that again. From your perspective as well, it's not the best way to go through life and handle. adverse conditions. No. And then let's talk about what makes you a brand. We are all brands. I think a lot of people, when they hear branding, they think about consumer logos, right? The Apple icon for our devices or Starbucks or whatever your favorite vehicle logo is. I think a lot of people think about it that way. And therefore, when we start to talk about it individually, they think I need a great professional headshot that I'm going to put on my LinkedIn profile. But it's so much more than that when we think about a brand. For me, it's funny, I'm originally from Canada and so Tim Hortons is like the national coffee chain there, but I don't even drink coffee. But when I think about that versus Starbucks, it's about the experience and the reputation in the eye of the beholder. So for me, when I think about Starbucks, it's actually much more about community and engagement. It's a place for me to go, again, pre-pandemic, I'm glad everything's opened back up, but you know, this... place to go and engage like that. So we need to be thinking about our own personal brand in that same way. You know, a brand is born of people's experience and reputation of others and recognize that we are the CEO of Brandew. And so therefore we need to determine the narrative. You know, what are people saying about us when we're not in the room? We need to determine what they're saying about us. And so then when we think about that, it's more than the subject matter expertise. that people are known for. So they, you know, what did you go to school for? What functionally are you performing? Are you like an expert in a particular industry? Most people think it's that, it's more than that. That's one part of it. The next part is like, what are you passionate about? What are your interests that are gonna develop and create spark and connection with other people? And what makes you different? What is your unique value proposition? And for me in business, it's about me as a trusted business partner and me as a leader. What are the values I have and the way in which I lead and create environment and culture for people to thrive and engagement. I'm also known to be radically candid. So if Kim Scott's book, Radical Candor, I'm gonna be very direct and open with you from a place of care and compassion because I want growth to happen. Those are things that I'm known about, but that's what makes me different. Not everyone operates that way. And then the last thing I think you need to think about foundationally around your brand is what's the legacy or what you wanna be known for? So as you're building that brand, it's those four things. What's the subject matter expertise or industry you're known for? What are you passionate about? What makes you different or what's your unique value proposition? And what's the legacy or impact that you wanna be known for? And when you talk about leadership, you said you must lead and not be led. Do I have to wait for a position of leadership to do that? No, not at all. I think we are all in positions of leadership regardless of the hierarchy. Our voice, is our power. And so whether that's standing up within an organization, you might not be a leader formally in terms of leading other team members. But when you see something that's wrong, and it's very contrary to whether it's like a code of ethics or business conduct that you need to speak up, whether it's from a diversity perspective, you see someone who's discriminating another against another person. We're all in a position of leadership. And so I want people to recognize that you don't need a title. You don't need the hierarchy to do that and be in a position to influence and lead others. Victoria, you've written several books and one of your books, you talk about confidence, how to start having confidence. A lot of people say, what do you mean? Should I fake it? And even though I'm not feeling confident, even if I don't feel I belong in this C-suite boardroom, what's the first step if you say, I want to start building my confidence? Well, it doesn't come overnight. What I do tell people, and I think I might've said it earlier here, I'm not a believer in fake it till you make it around faking the skills or credentials that you put out there or the experience you have. But I actually think it helps when it comes to your level of confidence. So you see before you this, what appears to be this really confident extroverted woman. Well, I wasn't always like that. So in fact, when I first had to start standing up in front of large... business audiences. I'm not talking about professional stages for speaking. I was uncomfortable, like that, even things like making small talk, when I made this move into like the business to business world and going to conferences, I was like, oh, I'm gonna walk up to a stranger. I'm gonna introduce myself. I know the end goal is around business, but like none of that felt natural or comfortable to me. So I faked it. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And there's a lot of self-talk that goes into this. Like I'm gonna show up. And I started small. I'm gonna walk out to this other person who's standing by themselves alone. and engage a conversation until eventually, like I put myself in a position to do it time and time again. And ultimately with that practice, it actually is now pretty innate and natural. I mean, I'm the type who's gonna talk to a stranger in an elevator. If I see someone's looking lost on the street, I'm like, do you need any help? So what I would tell, you know, your listeners is, fake it till you make it works exceptionally well with confidence, but you're actually gonna need to learn to lean into the discomfort. I don't think the growth is gonna come if you're not... leaning into the things that are making you really uncomfortable. Leaning into the discomfort is also what we encourage them when it comes to speaking. Now you're a well-known keynote speaker. Before you go, please give us about three tips. And one of the things that was mentioned in your website was that you just move flawlessly even the way you engage with your audience. So what are the three top tips of becoming a speaker? First and foremost, deeply understand the content or the subject that you're speaking on. For me, I mean, too many people want to do it because they're subject matter experts in something, but they don't have that confidence to be standing on stage. First and foremost, confidence will come, actually, if you understand your content. So know it. So I don't like to. I mean, once years ago, I was asked to speak, you know, at an AI, initially be the MC for an artificial intelligence conference. Fine. I work in technology. No problem. And then they asked me to deliver a keynote. No, no, no. That's not my expertise. So I'm not comfortable in that regard. So know deeply the content you're gonna speak on and practice, practice. I do not, unless it's like a commencement ceremony or some other really formalized speech, I do not read any notes at all. So for me, I might have a comfort screen and it's just gonna have bullet points. Usually that's just to keep me on track and make sure I'm managing to the time, you know, that they've asked me for. I also have seen, much like you said, there's a lot of people who want to go into like being entrepreneurs over these last couple of years. I see a lot of people want to go into speaking. I think they think it's sounds or it looks so sexy and hopping from hotel to hotel and on airplane to airplane, not always so sexy, but make sure that the content is relevant to the audience. So you might be an expert, but like, is it in demand? Going back to personal brand, what makes you unique and different from others that know that same subject matter expertise? So I tell your listeners to, deeply know their content, make sure they understand what the unique value proposition is and where they're gonna get booked to speak, and then exceptional amount of practice. So you seem really, you are, not seem, you are very natural and you have the opportunity to engage with your audience. If there's one thing you want, it's consistent. You keep saying practice, which I think applies in so many aspects of life, if not all. Practice, practice, practice. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you were hoping to share with our listeners today? I shared this nugget around leading into the things that make you uncomfortable. What I will share is one of my favorite quotes related to that topic, which is from Georgia dare. And it says, everything you've ever wanted lives on the other side of fear. So I tell your listeners, whether it's they want to aspire towards that entrepreneurialism or they want to grow and move up the hierarchy within their organizations, they want a passion project. They're not confident. Everything you wanted lives on the other side of that fear. So again, going back into getting comfortable with the things that are uncomfortable. Words of wisdom from Victoria Peltier, the keynote speaker, C-suite executive, board director, and author. Thank you so much for taking your time to be with us today. Thanks for having me, Roberta. It's my pleasure. I believe you have so many exciting resources for us on your website. Would you like to give us the URL? Absolutely. It's victoria-peltier.com, and then your listeners can go and connect with me on whatever their preferred social platform is from there. VictoriaPeltier.com. Thank you, Victoria. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review on iTunes and Spotify, and stay tuned for more episodes to come.