Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to your Bus Speaking and Communicating Podcast. I'm your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please log on to iTunes and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Let's get communicating. Today my guest is Brian Scott Gross, who's been in the entertainment industry since time immemorial. He is the president of BSG Public Relations and is here to talk to us about branding, communication skills, public relations, and all things media and marketing related. And before I go any further, please help me welcome him to the show. Morning, Brian. Good morning. Nice to see you. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. How are you? I'm doing great. Beautiful Friday morning. It is right. You are on the West Coast. I am correct. Uh huh. I'm in the Midwest. It's still beautiful though. We're in spring. We finally got here. Summer's coming. Yeah, finally. That's right. So tell us a little bit about your very lengthy career. Well, I started funny enough, my senior year in high school, I was sort of on a whim. I would called record labels to look for an internship. And the person who answered the phone at Deaf American was in the publicity department. She said, come down for an interview. I did. And three days a week, I was an intern at Deaf American Recordings in their publicity department, making press kits, helping out the staff, doing whatever it took on an afternoon basis. So I'd leave school and drive from Newberry Park to Burbank. This was in the spring and summer of 93. Went away to school. and then came back and just started working my way up in the PR ranks of the music industry. And so whether it was the Lo-Pelousa tour and then Warner Brothers and Rapreeze and Electra, I just put my head down and worked with some incredible people and musicians and bands and all of the like. It was an incredible time. Just realized this was a passion that I have. Why of all industries you could have chosen to be an intern on? How come you chose the music industry in particular? Side note, I was actually a choir boy. I was in chorus and I was a big music fan and I just wanted to be in the music industry. I loved music. I love, still do obviously, love bands. I just was fascinated by the world of music and the business behind it. And so the opportunity to start at the ground up was something that I just didn't think twice about. I can't tell you where that came from other than it was just a passion that I had. for music and for the industry. So that was just me. Even the film industry, I didn't want to go work at Paramount or entering there. I loved music so much and it was just an opportunity. And then I learned I got to go to shows. I got to listen to music before it came out. It was just all these incredible perks. That is amazing. Cause a lot of us usually, I think let me find the secure job. Cause the entertainment industry, especially your parents will warn you and say, are you sure that's going to pay bills? Oh, my parents, my grandparents, everyone warned me. But I knew from the beginning what it took, and it took a lot of work. And I wasn't afraid of that. Full disclosure, I went away to college for a year. I actually went on a music scholarship and realized I didn't want to be a music teacher. I wanted to work in the music industry. And so when I dropped out of college and came back, I knew that I was risking taking the sleep, that there was no Plan B. And that is what drove me to work harder. I was writing about music. I had DJ'd, I had helped when I was in college at the VJ, everything I possibly could to get as much education, quote unquote street education about the industry and move forward. So when you left your job in order to start BSGPR, how did you make that transition? I was working at a company called Vivid, so I had gone to a different industry altogether where I had a huge and incredible opportunity and I was 23 years old. when that job ended, I did interviews. But at the same time, I had three different people want to hire me. Once I did the numbers and realized I could work for myself, work out of my house at the time, and make X amount of money, that was just with three clients to start, I realized that I was off to something. Funny enough, that was 23 years ago. I literally said, why not? And so I went with it. And I'm still on this path of working with incredible clients of all facets of... all industries, to be honest, mostly entertainment, but I've had so many different opportunities while working for myself to prove to people that I can hopefully accomplish what they're looking for. Again, when you work for yourself, there's no fallback. You're jumping without a net. Many people do or do not have. I think there's a dividing line in many cases where once you work for yourself, you'll never go back. And there are people that are very happy working for a corporation or for someone else. I totally understand why people do that as well. This isn't for the faint of heart, working for yourself. And I love it. I have the utmost respect for people that are nine to five people. I really do because they are into their job and they're into their life and there's the separation. There are days that I wish I had that, but I don't. It's just not in my DNA. For me, the blend is my work and my life. And with that being said, there are people in your life that will understand. And there are people that won't. And the majority of people that are in my life, my sort of circle of friends, are not nine to five-ers. They're all hustlers in some way, shape, or form. So we sort of commune in that way. We have that sort of understanding about each other. We're built in a way that it's a little different. I would like for you to debunk some of the myths about public relations. We always think of it as a joke where, let's say one of its celebrities is your client. And then they call and say, Brian, I was caught with a DUI. Do something in the paper. Is that the only part of the job or is there more to it? Oh, there's so much more to it. You know, my constant daily grind is being in constant contact with media from all over the world. You know, when I get up in the morning, there's emails from Australia, from Asia, from Europe, to get my day started. And then as the day progresses, I'm dealing with people in the United States. It's a constant grind of staying on top. It's 24-7-365. People come to you with needs. in the media, you are pitching your clients out. What you're describing as crisis media, and that certainly happens plenty of times, and you deal with it accordingly, and you study it, and you have to stay calm, because you're the person who's dealing with someone who might be in a moment of crisis and is completely unsure what to do. So they need a calming voice, they need someone in their corner, they need someone's help. And that is certainly an aspect of this career that's extremely important. At the same time, the daily grind of being in constant contact with, for me, as many media people as possible to help garner the attention that my clients are looking for versus what you described is incredibly important. And so it takes a work ethic. It takes being told no every single day, being told worse than no every single day. And so you build up a thick skin in that regard. This could be a conspiracy theory from those of us who are not in the industry. Is it true that you portray your client a certain way based on the target market? For instance, let me use Michael B Jordan, for example, conspiracy theory. He had that relationship with Lori Harvey because he had been seen with women in Italy on a boat. So his main audience, black women were not happy about that. So he now has to portray himself as. Oh yeah, I have a black girlfriend. Or for instance, somebody else should hide the fact that they have a partner who's not similar to the target market for the purposes of the business. I'm not a fan of that because you're gonna get caught. At some point, if you are doing something that isn't true to yourself, you will be anxious, you will cause yourself your own stress, and ultimately you will... have to deal with this. I've been very fortunate in my career that I've always done my best to take on clients that are real with themselves, that we're not trying to paint a picture to the public that isn't true, that we're not trying to hide anything. And certainly there are plenty of things you are trying to hide, but I'm not a fan of what you're describing. And that's more of a Hollywood thing. What you just described took a long time, right? You just described a whole scenario. At some point, someone's going to poke holes in it and you're going to get caught. And then you have to admit to it. Now, if you're trying to do it, if it's a publicity stunt, I get it, I've worked with and worked on plenty of publicity stunts in my career. Those exist, and you're trying to create something out of nothing, or you're trying to garner attention in any way, shape, or form. Totally understandable. But if you are bending the truth, and it bends a little too far, it'll break, or you'll just simply get caught, and then you have to deal with those public repercussions. And so you have to be careful in those regards. Now it's on you. you know, now you're dealing with that. So it's your conscience that has to deal with that. You have to look in the mirror and say, is this something I wanna be a part of? So when it comes to communicating your message and branding yourself a certain way, what are some of the, say, three key elements that go into that? First is honesty. First is being honest with yourself, being wholesome about yourself, being real about yourself. Second is having a game plan, having a strategy. putting together a really good strategy of what you're looking to accomplish. And third is follow through. Third is the work. It doesn't just happen. The best clients I've ever had work together with me and the worst clients I've ever had come to me and go, what have you done for me lately? And that includes bands. I've definitely worked with incredible bands, some of the biggest in the world, who you would not think would be so egoless in their work and their resolve. And I've worked with bands you've never heard of because they thought. they got signed and they should be automatically be famous and not have to do anything but play their song. So those are the three aspects that I would focus on. You mentioned in another one of your interviews, egoless and selfless, which as the general public usually don't associate with the entertainment industry. But there are incredibly hardworking celebrities and quote famous people who might have ego, might have whatever it is, but at the end of the day, they didn't get to that level. without the work. The most famous people in the world, musicians, celebrities, film, TV, otherwise, they put in a lot of work. And it's the work you don't see. You see the tip of the iceberg, but you don't see what's below the surface. And that's on purpose. Sometimes people now in this day and age of reality TV, they like to show what goes on behind the scenes. But just like in athletics, LeBron James isn't who he is. He didn't break the scoring record by half-assing his career. He's put in... so much work to become who he is. And remember, he came out of the gates in high school known as the king. He was gonna be the king. Like he had to live up to something, right? Hadn't done anything yet, just did it in high school. Yeah, to mentally plant that in his subconscious. Yeah, that's a lot. That's setting a high precedent that he had to achieve. So we talk about how we think everyone has an ego and everyone has an attitude and they do exist, but people ignore the work until you're face to face with those people. and you see the work that they put in. So it sounds like a combination of work ethic and talent, not just talent. Absolutely, 100%. I don't know anyone with talent that doesn't have the work ethic to back it up, who isn't successful. That's the entertainment industry you do PR for, but I know that you work with companies as well. Correct. So how do you help corporate companies with the services that your company provides? Keeping everything as linear as possible to accomplish the goal. One of the biggest challenges with companies is when there's too many cooks in the kitchen and things don't get accomplished because there's back and forth, there's meetings. And so my goal, my focus has always been, and it's not pretty sometimes, is trying to be linear, trying to create something that is from A to B with a corporate client. Again, you'll have the egos, the attitudes, a lot of people. And so you've really got to straighten everything out because they're coming to me with an objective and a goal and a timeline. and a budget and so that's what needs to be accomplished and what needs to be done is going through and figuring out the easiest way to accomplish it. This age of coaches, consultants, online and everybody, especially since the pandemic, there's been a boom. If one of those people came to your company, would you take them on as a client? I just was hired by one in New York that I'll be starting working on just now. So he's got a book that just came out. He has those services. We're going to try and accomplish as much as we can to build this brand. He has something to give to people. He has something that people need. We're going to try and make as many people know about it. So I'm excited about the project that I just took on. Absolutely. I love working with people who have these ambitions, have these desires to help other people. Cause at the end of the day, that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to help people. And so people hire them when they need help. And so if I can help promote someone like that, get them a bigger audience. help them succeed, that's the ultimate goal. I don't know if you've heard of the radio station, We FM, what's in it for me? Oh, okay. So they say that a lot of the time when you're marketing yourself and you wanna help people in your messaging, always remember in their minds, they're asking themselves in your messaging, in your services, what's in it for them? How do you take that into consideration when you're putting together a PR package for your clients? When I put together a proposal, I get as much information about who they are and what they're looking to accomplish. And then my thoughts is how we would get there. And a lot of it is the basics of publicity and public relations and media relations as far as building the press kit, getting all the information, putting ideas together, going back and forth in that regard. But every client is very, very different. So you have to treat every client differently as to what they're looking to accomplish and how we're going to get there. Do you help? coach them on when they're being interviewed on MSNBC or whatever, how to present themselves, how to present. Absolutely. Yes. And also if they need more extensive and my team feels like they do, we certainly bring in incredible media trainers we've worked with over the years that help as well. So I have no issue finding someone who I think would be better than I am to help them accomplish that. So you started a few decades ago. How has social media changed the landscape of your industry? Well, it gives direct access. So now anyone can contact anyone, to put it bluntly. So you have that challenge and how to work with that. The speed of social media, you know, one tweet can be read immediately and then you're dealing with that. It's affected every aspect of my job. If you go back to when there wasn't social media to when there was, it's a very distinct. pattern in line as far as things that you would handle one way in the world of social media, which we will now have here and beyond, you handle things differently. That's case by case, moment by moment, client by client, as far as that goes. So you said you started working from home long before the pandemic. Has anything changed for you in the last three years or you've always been plugged in into the system? No, I mean, certain aspects, certain industries obviously grew. You know, we're on Zoom. You know, Zoom was nothing before the pandemic, and here we are. The pandemic certainly changed, and certainly the catastrophe of a pandemic, but as far as us, you know, right here who are alive and survived a pandemic, definitely things have changed. And so we look at things a little differently. We handle things a little differently, but certainly different industries grew out of the pandemic and certain industries suffered. There's been such a massive change to our lives that... we take into consideration. For me, I was fortunate. I still came to my office. I still had my clients. And then there was just sort of a boom where I was needed because people were at home, needed to be entertained. And we were figuring out ways to help and media still needed to write stories and still needed to do interviews. And we just altered, had to make changes. Less in person, more like this. You sort of pivot where it needs to happen. Yeah, be adaptable. Since you work with people from all over the world, have you noticed any cultural differences and how they affect your engagement with the client or everybody's just a unique individual? You cannot categorize them into anything. You can't compare cultures. You really can't. They're very different. How they are, where they come from, cultures are very different. You adapt to each culture and how they work and how they do business. I've always been fascinated by... how diverse our planet is and the world is with the multitude of cultures that exist. It's pretty incredible. And I've been very fortunate to work with a large plethora of different cultures and work with them in their ways and learn from them and how to adapt to how they do business. I've always been fascinated by it. Now, relationship building. Is it possible in the entertainment industry to have long-term relationships or everybody just... I need you now and then they're gone. Both. It's possible to have long term and there's definitely short term. So it really depends on the person. Cause if people are looking to be in entertainment for the rest of their lives and put in the work, then they will be and you'll work with them. If there are people that get in and get out, they'll get in and get out. Can't really define that. It's more of a wide swath of the palette. Every person when it comes to entertainment is extremely different, what their goals are, what they want to accomplish. And frankly, some can't handle it. Some try and think that they're gonna make it. I remember I was friends with a drummer of a band and I hadn't seen him in years and now he's a very successful sommelier. Like you just never know where people end up, especially when they come in entertainment, music, film, TV, or otherwise, and where they go. It's a lot of fun to, you know, every once in a while I'll think of an artist I worked with and go look them up and see where they're at. If they're still making music or if they're the greatest judge of wine. So it's pretty cool. You make music too, right? Oh, I have in years. I used to, but it's been a very, very long time. It was totally for fun, totally with friends, totally enjoyable. And I would sing out live as well. So just all for fun, hobby, enjoyment in that regard. In the music industry, this is the one question Ovalist had. How is it that you can have a musician sell a hundred and fifty million dollars worth of records, but then they file for bankruptcy a few years later? Bad management. It's all about the people around you. Long, long time ago, I was working on an award show and I was with TLC and I was standing with their security guard and he pointed at someone and goes, see, see that person over there? Like, yeah, he's like, he's taking all their money. And I was a kid. Just like that. And they knew that? Yeah. And they were right. Because if you recall about a year later, they filed for bankruptcy. I know they said they only earned $99 each from their record sales. Yeah. So actually people are. aware within the circle that somebody's taking the money? Yeah, absolutely. There are people always aware, but there's only so much certain people can do in certain situations when it involves people and other people's finances. It's ultimately between the person who's handling the finances and the person who is allowing that person to handle their finances. And that's why you have in all facets, this isn't just entertainment, we just see entertainment because we shine a light on it. But in all facets, there are people that have the right people around them, and there are people that don't. What is key? Having the best people in their position in your circle is highly important. The most important things in business, a great attorney, a great accountant, and a great financial advisor. And if you have those three, you should be in good shape. So great meaning, they are the ones who won't take your money either, because some have been known to. Well, great meaning, they're trustworthy. Yes. You hear these stories all the time. And we always will, because it's a matter of trust between two people and whether that other person who you've brought in is out to look out for you or for themselves. Which then begs the question, if I were to be famous, is it advisable then to have my family as my circle? My mom manages my PR, my brother, my books. Is that the solution? No, because there's plenty of times where it doesn't work. We've seen in history, there are plenty of times it does. If the best person is your brother for that specific position, then yes. If the worst person is your brother for that specific position, then no. Blood or otherwise. You want the best person. And if obviously we, family is a whole different beast in everyone's lives, so that's really up to the person to decide is my family member the right person for that position. Not easy at all. We see that all the time, we read about it all the time. I'm with you. It exists. You want to have the best people around you. That's all I can say. And then let's talk about your North Korea marathon. Yeah. I was there for almost a decade. I never made it to North Korea. In fact, I lived in two different cities that were close to the DMV, the four kilometer stretch between the two Koreas. So I know if you need to go there, you need to go through China. And so I only had a friend once who was able to take pictures. I don't know how he did it. How on earth did you decide of all places that's where you're going to go on a marathon? So I had run four marathons prior and there's a marathon, there's a full marathon, half 10k and a 5k they do every year, Olympic sanction race through the streets of Pyongyang and my client had done this, he was based in China at the time and so he just told me just get to Beijing and him and I and his now wife and his business partner and his business partner's wife. We went on a tour through a company called Corio Tours, who do these tour groups, have since the early 90s. And we took a tour of Pyongyang and we went out to Ho Chiang. And then on the fourth day, I think because we left the fifth day, there was the race. Full marathon was four laps through the city. The half marathon was two laps through the city. So you start in the stadium and like you're a professional runner and you're running through the streets. And since it's laps, You're literally running and professionals going six, seven, eight miles an hour are running by you. And all I could think was, please don't bump into this incredibly fast group of Kenyans who are trying to win this race. So I'm running and I'm just in fear of bumping into this. Meanwhile, I'm taking photos. I was just like, journeyman. You were allowed to carry your camera? Absolutely. We were given a set of rules. The rules on photography. If the tour group leader said no photos, you couldn't take photos. The only things we were not allowed to take photos of were construction and anything that said no photos. Yeah, I took a ton of photos and some incredible art, purchased some incredible artwork. So I finished the race. We were in the stadium eating ice cream, watching the other runners come in. There was a soccer match in the middle of the stadium. Stadium had about 110,000 seats. It was a beautiful, beautiful stadium. Later that afternoon, we went to the water slide park in the middle of Pyongyang. It's an indoor water slide park. Wow. flew back to Beijing and then flew home. It was an incredible experience running that race. It was in the spring, so it was just beautiful outside and the cherry blossoms were on the trees and the streets were just lined with people from the city and you would just run and give everyone a high five and mid five and the high five, whatever. And so it was a really incredible experience. It was a beautiful race, met people from all over the world. When you were there, did you say to yourself, Ah, this is what the news says back home and it's a little different than what I'm experiencing? Well, I'm a big believer in you need to go. So I've been to Cuba a few times and now I've been to North Korea. And, you know, I'm not judgmental on a place unless I've been there and experienced it myself. I'm a big believer is you can only hold so much judgment on another country or another place or anything else until you've been there. So I've tried my best to experience places and they're still... so many more places I want to go to. But I think it's really important. These are people, these are cultures that you go and respect. You're going into someone else's house. That's the way I've looked at every piece of travel I've ever done. And when people come here, they're coming to my house. So you treat it that way. I went with that regard of respect of the culture and of the people when you travel to countries. We know how influential mainstream media is in people's perceptions of other places that like you said, you haven't been to. Setting a bar in any sort of travel can get you in trouble mentally because if it doesn't live up to the expectation you've spent money that you're gonna be disappointed in, you get in trouble when you set it. In life, you get in trouble when you set expectations. We're all guilty of it. But when it comes to travel, I do my best not to do that, to go with an open mind, open heart, and see what I'm gonna experience. Always excited to see what that experience will be. I just think best way to travel mentally. True, I always say travel is your best teacher. Teaches you so much about yourself and the world. You do so much and you're obviously very busy. Do you believe in this concept of work-life balance? No, but that's just solely my opinion. But my work has bled into my life since I was 17, since I started interning at a record label my senior year of high school. I'm not a work-life balance person. There are people that are to each his own, but for me personally, When the phone rings, when I get a text, you know, we're going to finish this up shortly and I'm going to go dive into my emails and I'm there might be needed for some of the tonight. I might be needed for something this weekend. I have a band that's currently on tour. There's no nine to five in touring life. There's no nine to five in production life. There's no nine to five in the creation of art. There is creating art and that doesn't have a timeframe. If you work with any facet of art or whatever it may be. That's not a nine to five job. That's someone calling you at 2 a.m. That's someone calling you at 2 p.m. It doesn't matter. I made the choice for this career, especially when you own your own business, you're not nine to five. You're getting calls and emails and texts 24 seven. But you're talking to the wrong guy if you want work-life balance. I'm not gonna sit here and preach it. I'm gonna respect it to those who are able to do it, but that's just not my thing. When it comes to the music industry, When you do the PR for your client, does what you write make them more famous or are they already famous? You are just letting the public know that this is who they are and what they do. Yeah, my writing is informative. So I've always found press releases and information for artists. It needs to be informative. At the end of the day, whatever piece of music they're making, they're going to find an audience for it if they find an audience. But my job is to just let as many of the right people know about it. So it's all about getting the right information out. You can get creative, certainly as a publicist, you get creative as much as your client wants you to, whoever you're working with. But I didn't sell the records, I didn't sell out the tours, I didn't sign the publishing deals. So you're helping with imaging when needed and asked upon. You're helping with ideas and creativity when asked upon. But ultimately it is up to the artist as far as that goes. You're just the bridge. from the artist to the public to help get the message out. Right. With creativity, is anybody potentially creative or some people are just born with it and that's why? Oh, some people might not have that within them and that's okay. They have whatever it is that their passion is. Hopefully they have a passion. People that come to me have developed something already. They have something that I can work with. For those who aren't sure or hesitant, if they're watching this, go find out. You know, the beauty of life is you can take risks without anyone finding out. You can see if you're an artist, you can find out if you can study, you know, you can put your time and effort and your 10,000 hours into something. It's up to you ultimately to make that decision. I highly stress that if you want to do something, you go for it. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise. That's right. I know you're not a judgmental person, but what are your thoughts on viral videos so that a person becomes famous? People get caught up in all sorts of viral media of way, shape, or form. And I've definitely worked with people on all ends of that. So it exists. It's something that's out there. We all have that group of friends we share videos with, right, and photos and memes and everything else. We all do it. We all see something funny or something crazy or whatever it is, and we share it. If anything, it adds brevity and lightness to a day. If you're having like a stressful day and your friend sends you a really funny video, and you smile. Yeah, mission accomplished. If anybody wants to work with BSG, what do you think they can accomplish with the art they've already created? Someone is looking for a publicist, someone has something that they need help promoting. I'm at Twitter at BSGPR, that's one of the easiest ways to find me. My website's BSGPR.com, but I always take meetings and talk to people who are definitely not sure. And if it's something that I'm not a fit, I'll try and find them someone who's a better fit for them. If I don't think they're ready, I don't want them spending money. The thing I stress about public and media relations and the whole aspect of a business is we're the last hiring. Meaning you have to get all your ducks in a row. Let's say you have to develop your website for whatever it is. You have to get all your social media accounts. You have to get your accountant and your lawyer and your financial guy. You've got to get everything in line. And when you're ready, you've got to develop whatever it is you're making. And then when you're ready to go public, that's when you bring on someone in my capacity. So you don't bring them on first. You bring them on last because I want to be able to accomplish for my clients, what they're looking to accomplish. And so all the ducks need to be in a row before we move forward. So don't come to us say, Brian, please make me famous. You know, we can try. I'll certainly, I've had that phone conversation many times in my career. Do what I can, but I really hope you have something worth being famous for. Have something worth being famous for and your ducks in the road. Thank you so much, Brian Scott Gross, founder of BSG Public Relations. Before you go, please recite to us again your social media and website handles. Yeah, BSGPR.com and on Instagram and Twitter at BSGPR. Thank you very much. Don't forget to subscribe. My pleasure. Thank you for being here. I know you're a busy guy, so I appreciate you being on the show. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review and we'll be with you on the next episode.