Speaking and Communicating Podcast

We don't teach kids how to cooperate with each other with words. Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I'm your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please log on to iTunes and Spotify and leave us a rating and a review. Let's get communicating! Our podcast focuses mainly on leadership and communication skills. So my guest today, Atlas Altman, who is the bestselling author of leadership books, he is a former Air Force Special Operations Communications and a nationally ranked speaker in the US, is here to talk to us about his experience, not only himself, but with his son on how he got started. on teaching leadership to children and how parents can do so based on him leading elite teams in the Air Force and other military branches. And before I go any further, please help me welcome him to the show. Hi Atlas. Hi Roberta. How are you and your crew? I love the show. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. Oh, love to you too. And I see somebody else is joining us on your lap. This is Yumi. This is the inspiration for the Kids Leadership Series that we published for the last couple of years, my son and I. And thank you for that warm introduction. She is just an amazing, heartfelt story maker herself. But yeah, she looks like a fox and that's where all of the titles came from. This little dog right here is a Shiba Inu. It looks just like a fox. And her name is Yumi, which stands for beautiful in Japanese. And she's glad to be here too. That is amazing. Welcome to the show. You certainly do look like a fox, don't you? Thank you for being an inspiration and especially because we love storytelling on this show. Please tell us a little bit more about yourself. Yeah, so Atlas Altman. I have almost three decades in the United States military. I've worked in Elite teams, every organization that I've been in has won major awards. I've worked in the White House for the Obama administration, advancing him with secret service and other military units. I've worked in special operations around the world, doing some innovation and technology and communication specific things. I've worked in all the combat zones that we are majorly involved in. And then we've had some specific missions in other areas. I've been in around 33 countries where I've led teams. And what's happened in each one of them has been recorded. I took a whole bunch of notes. And what I like to call it is being a student of awesomeness. So whenever I see something awesome, I grab my little notebook and I'm like, Roberta podcast. And then I start writing down exactly what it is. And when I hit the button to retire, I started looking at these notes and I found this pattern for leadership and communication and it's three things. And I'll share it with your audience, but that kind of got me into this whole realm of telling people what I've learned over 30 years and all of these unique sideline to history experiences. Now I get to do this all the time, which is fun for me. That's a little bit about me. I have a son. He is a fantastic young man. He has helped me with my books by looking at the pictures and making sure that they match the words and the illustration and just keeping everything clear so that whenever someone reads the book... A child isn't looking at a picture that doesn't match what's being said in the story. So he's been fantastic at 14. When we published our first book, he became the editor of a bestselling book, started his resume. I was like, yeah, let's go, dude. He's like, yeah. When most 14 year olds are playing video games, that's amazing. Yeah. He still plays video games. So there's still time for that. Right. But at least he's helping his dad go out the books. That is amazing. Yeah. But when I realized that there was a need was when I was in a course for commanders. It was me and six other commanders and we paid a lot of money for an organization to come in and tell us how to be advanced leaders. Not beginning leaders, not executive leaders, just advanced leaders, because we were already proven as leaders. And when the course began in this very well-known agency, we realized that we were hitting repeat on a lot of lessons that we already knew. So the course lasted a week. And I started calling other commanders around the world. I'm like, Hey, are you guys getting this too? They were, and everyone was missing them more. So we came up with five to six different things that every commander needs to do to advance the ball. And one of them falls right in line with your show. It's communication. You have to be a good communicator. You have to be a good communicator to be a good commander and a good leader, but you also have to be a great communicator in order to get things done and change the world. So communication was one of the big key things that we started looking at. The other things. were time management and how do you do that with technology that's always changing? And the other thing was money. And so the top three things out of the five things that we all agreed on were those things. And what I realized when I started taking all my notes in, I was like, wow, these three things are exactly what we focused on and all of these very elite teams and people always people. The number one thing for every successful place, whether It's in the military and business and education, academia. The number one thing that everyone has to focus on is people. Well, how do you do that? For me, when I started looking at that, I wrote it into three chapters. I looked at myself first, because if you're going to change the world, start with yourself, right? Yep. Yeah. And then my team, if I can change myself and my team, we're going to be super powerful for whatever it is that we need to be doing. Right. And the third thing is our organization or mission or whatever. It is that gets you going for whatever good you're doing in the world. So those are the three things to a person that made a holistic five part plan. So as a leader, those five things are what we started juggling. And I created a mini course for my lowercase commanders, my flight commanders, my first time commanders. And I said, Hey guys, this is what you need to look at. And it was really well received. Then I started doing it in special operations for a lot of people that lots of years in special operations and it was really well received. And then I did it again, and again, and every time I was like, man, I got something here. I probably just need to give it to the world. So I wrote a book and that is my rule of three. Rule three of them pushed its way into a couple of really well-known publishers. One of them was through a contact of mine who had an editor in Harvard Business Review. And I started working with Harvard Business Review and they started giving me instructions, send me a chapter at a time. So I started sending it. And then I heard something from Dave Goggins, who wrote a couple of great books. And he said, don't let anybody publish your book. And I sat there for a while on that statement. And I pulled it back from Harvard Business Review. I said, hey, thanks for looking. I'm just going to publish it myself. And I started taking in preview orders and presales. That was about a year and a half ago. And I had enough money to then pay for an editor, pay for copy edit, pay for formatting, pay for the book cover. And everyone who saw this and had my class got to participate. And they actually gave me money for the book to come out early, which I put it in the print shop yesterday. It's going to come to me probably in about two weeks. And I'll start pushing it out to all those people that have been in my class already and those people that have contributed to the content and those people that gave me lots of good feedback, or some of them just gave me money because they believed it's a need. So that's the story of the book that I wrote initially to start the whole journey and becoming an author. And then that spun off into my son asked me about, Hey dad, how do I make money? And I was like, dude, you need to get some face paint, a clown nose, some big shoes and learn how to do the balloon animal thing. And he's like, dad, I was like, well, write a book, man. And he's like, yeah, we should write a book. We, and he's like, well, you write a book. I'll write a book. And then that turned into, I wrote a book, my little Shiba there looks like a fox stopped and looked at an Amazon box. And I was like, well, the title is going to be Fox in the box. Yeah. And then. I just looked at her and I realized that it's all about teamwork. And like, how can I put that into kids? That's the first thing you want to teach a kid is teamwork. You know, don't be me, me. How can you work with others? And so that's what the fox in the box is all about. The next day after we published it, like I said, best selling status on Amazon, which is just amazing. Congratulations. That is amazing. Thanks Roberta. My pleasure. It's funny. You talk about kids and teamwork. When you think about kindergarten, siblings. Yes. There's always a fight. How about we take this toy and we play with it together? Yes. Why is it that is the first instinct of let's fight over it? I have my personal belief, which is we don't teach kids how to cooperate with each other with words. You tell the great story and I'm going to ask you to tell it, but it's whenever someone introduces something that needs to happen with words and action seems to reoccur in a positive manner. So. You talked about on a previous show, King Shaka Zulu and one of your ancestors coming together after something was said. Like we need to teach that to our kids. But can you tell me that story? Cause I'd love to hear that. Oh yes. One of my ancestors, same surname as me, when King Shaka Zulu's mom died, very beloved. Everybody loved her. He was in so much pain, which I lost my dad last year. The pain is brutal. And he said everybody, the whole nation should be on a hunger strike. which they agreed to. He was always a king who serves his nation. So whatever it says, usually they think, you know, let's do it. After a few days, one of my ancestors went to him and said, my beloved king, you know how much we loved Queen Nandi. We will mourn probably for the rest of our lives, but this hunger strike, I'm not sure if it's it. We need the soldiers to remain strong so that they are always ready to protect the Zulu nation. And if they are not eating, they're gonna be weak. We're not gonna have soldiers. We're not gonna be able to serve the nation. He said, I like you for thinking. Because even though, yes, I'm a good king and I serve the nation, I'm human. The hurt of losing my mom got to be too much. Even I wasn't thinking straight. I'm glad you brought that to my attention. Because when you think of workplaces, sometimes people are afraid to tell the both. It's a different idea. But yes, that's what happened. And because he thinks, King Shaka made him captain of the army. I love that. Such a powerful, powerful army with such a very well-known, successful leader. See that power of communication being approachable? The king had to be approachable in order to receive that message. Because you know if he wasn't like some kings especially during that era, he would have been killed to challenge the kings. Yes. He would have been killed if King Shagazulu was not approachable. That's it. For me, that's huge and people don't really realize that until they've been through it. But if you could teach a kid that and you put it into them early, then those kinds of environments open up a communication pattern that just always it's there, but it's not available because people don't know that it's available. So when you teach your kids, Hey, talk about it before you start, whatever it is that you're going to do, if you're going to try to take that toy, ask if you can take it. If you want to work on something together, start communicating effectively. And that all happens at a young age. That story, I love that story, so powerful. Appreciate you, thank you, Atlas. Seriously, that story is so powerful because it speaks to approachability and good leadership. You have to be able to receive the messages that are given to you by people who want to give you the message. Sometimes you're just so scared to talk to a leader, a commander, a king. Those things all bring power to something that people need. It's leadership, but it starts with communication. In that list of three. What about communication seems to either be something that we struggle with in general, or if you go to university, it's not emphasized enough unless you're doing a master's in communication. Oh, that's so true. Yeah, so communication, absolutely important. If you have any problems in your relationship, whether it's at work, at home, when you're at the supermarket, I mean, it doesn't matter where you're at. You have to be able to communicate. That's why there's blinkers on vehicles, right? So that, you know, that it's coming. But communication has to be drawn down to where it's super consumable. In today's day and era, we look for so many things to be simplified for us, because we just don't have the time to dive in at the levels we used to in the past. So if you're not able to communicate in something like this, that catches people's attention, something quick, something powerful, they're going to move on to the next thing. grab your attention and then swiping the next screen and it's gone. Absolutely. I always like to use the sales approach in this. In the 50s and the 60s in the United States, someone had to hear things four times before they considered buying it or looking into it. As of last year, the study is 15 times before they consider. And the reason why is because information goes like that right through the ear holes and out because there's so much noise. that people can't handle at all unless it's something that's going to capture their attention and they're going to be able to grasp it real quick and put it in here. As professionals, we like to use acronyms, especially in the military. It doesn't matter what it is. People like to shorten words or use professional terms. That introduces a lot of confusion. So I wiped out all of the professional vernacular in and around those acronyms. Since we've been talking, we haven't used one acronym. Go back and listen to it. There hasn't been one acronym because you're an effective communicator and I'm an effective communicator. And that's an unwritten rule that no one really knows. When you were talking earlier about the consumption of information, I actually have to sit now and think, what's my phone number again? Whereas before I used to memorize. Perfectly, Sam. Because our brains were trained to remember things. There was not this overload of information. And therefore, even when we communicated. I think we were more clearer, unless you disagree, than we are today. I think that we were able to communicate in longer timeframes than we are now. So that allowed us to be a little bit more definitive on what exactly it is that we're looking at. Herein lies the question of how do you effectively communicate? Like how are you going about it? I would agree with you. It seems... Our past was a little bit more clear than it is now. But I would have to say we didn't have smartphones and computers and videos to watch. We used to say things like, I'm bored in America. I've never heard my kids say that ever. It's just so much to consume. It's crazy. But cutting through that, it's super crazy. Back to the parents that you noticed, because we say the basis of the show is... If you are so good in your technical skills at Harvard, you got your A's. If you don't speak and communicate well, you're not going to climb up that ladder. Can you share with us your experiences in the military when it comes to that? Yeah, from the perspective of what made my team's elite is that people knew about us. So we may not have been the best crew or the best team in every scenario, but people knew that we were very capable. and that we deliver results and we always want. Grant Cardone puts it as, you don't have to be the best, you just have to be the best known. And in order to be the best known, I'll take that and make this an answer. In order to be the best known, you have to be an effective communicator. That's right. If you're really good at delivering your message and what people need to hear, people are gonna invite you so that you can help them because they want that effective communication. They don't wanna wait for it. They don't have time for that anymore. And they don't want to beat around the bush, as they say, trying to figure out what it is that you can do to help them. They want to know what you can do right off the bat. And so we used to do that. In my teams, I would be like, this is what I can do for you. This is how I can do it. Do you want to know anything else? And then the people would like, come talk to me about that. And I'm like, okay. And that's how it used to roll. It's funny you say that I had a guest who said, there's this scale of perceived. Remember, everything is perception. perceived leadership and communication skills. If you are not good at communication, you are perceived to not be as good a leader. True. You are perceived to not be as good a candidate for the job, even if you do know the staff. Yeah, I definitely can concur with that. What happens is people always look at a successful person and they go, Wow, that guy's or that girl is an overnight success and they don't see the years that it took to make that successful appearance happen. I like to talk about cycles. So in order for you to do something really good, you have to do a lot of cycles in order to figure out how you can be best performing at that, whatever it is, whether it's music or writing and you do these iterations and cycles, right? The hundred hour test is 19 minutes a day for a year. If you spend 19 minutes a day for a year on say playing guitar, you're going to be really good at the end of the year. So it's those little cycles that you do every day in a consistent pattern that make you better and better. But what people see is the end result and not the work. As it starts to progress eight to 10 months into it, when you're starting to play songs, people are like, you're pretty good at that. When did you learn? That's the way leadership is always labeled. It's labeled like that. You can't define leadership. because it's different for everyone. But whenever a good leader shows up and they deliver a result, they're like, you're a good leader. And they don't see all of the failures and the time that was placed into all the different lessons that they learned in order to become two thumbs up great leader. Right. And it's the different path for everyone. There's not one archetype of a leader. There are thousands of books every day published on leadership, because everyone likes to talk about their brand of leadership as if it can be picked up and placed in some other place and become successful. And you know, just as well as I know that does not happen. Your brand of leadership has to be formed and molded into whatever the problem set is so that you can deliver a solution and then look at it again and do it again. And each time you do it, you're going to get better. But people don't want that. They want it instant, immediate. How can I get better? I hate to say it because it's so cliche. I can give you what to look at, but I can't tell you how to do it. It's an easy solution, but it's going to take a lot of work to get there. And people don't like to hear that sometimes, but it's the truth. And your brand of leadership is going to work because it's yours. When people look at problems, they try to take someone else's brand of leadership and put it in themselves. And it comes out and it's fake. People see right through fake. Garbage in garbage. Garbage in, garbage out. If you take somebody's garbage and you try to make it into gold, it comes out garbage. But you know, sometimes one person's trash is another man's treasure. For sure. We'll talk about leaders being approachable. What creates psychological safety? I think it was Dale Carnegie who said it. People don't care about what you know until they know how much you care. So if you... Genuinely ask somebody, how are you doing? And you aren't looking at your phone and you aren't looking around to see who's at it. Looking at you ask the question and you're paying attention to them and you can just spend that time with them. They see you, they see you as real. And then after a couple of times of really seeing you care, they're gonna bring things to you because you care. That's really where it is. That's where leadership 101 starts. That whole space that you create. is what opens the door for that safety that you're talking about. It's safe whenever someone cares. It's not safe when they don't. It's that caring value that makes you approachable, makes you a good leader, it makes you charismatic, it makes you a good listener. You know, Snoop Dogg, the story that I heard, I think two days ago, was that Snoop is an extremely good listener. And then he takes what he's getting and he makes it into something that's great. Wow. that safety comes through listening. As a leader, you gotta listen more and that creates a safe space for people to bring you problems. Or you're gonna hire a consultant to come in and listen to your people and they're gonna tell you exactly what you could have already learned just by being in a safe space and listening more. Now let's talk about the fox in the box or Yumi in the box. So it's about parents teaching kids leadership. Yeah. So the Fox in the Box, the Boxing Fox, the Fox in the Talks, and most recently the Fox in the Lives. They all have leadership lessons. And as the story progresses, it goes into multiple things where a proven leader can look at the story and ask questions of the future leader. What it does is it acts as a tool for you and your kids to connect on something that you are not teaching your kids. At the end of the book, there's questions and the questions go. How important do you think teamwork was for the Fox and the Ox to communicate and solve the problem? You could take what's being placed into the story, pull out something from your day and have a different conversation with your kid every night. The parents that have talked to me about it, they give it rave reviews because one, it's five to seven minutes worth of reading. And the average time cycle for a bedtime story, parents don't want it to be more than 10 minutes. seven minutes total, then you're gonna spend three minutes talking to your kid. And three minutes throughout the year equals what? Your kid becomes a hundred hour leader. It's amazing what they're gonna pull out of that. And it's amazing what the parents are gonna share because they're given that opportunity for the kids. So a lot of the folks that send me pictures or they'll send me thank yous, they're like, my son, my daughter wants to read this every night. And every night it's a different discussion. It's a fun little thing that I never expected to encounter. When I pushed them out, I was thinking, if I could just change one kid's life, one parent's life, this effort is going to be worth it. And now I've gotten hundreds of pictures and lots of different stories from those books, which I'm happy. I'm very blessed and fortunate. Congratulations, especially for transforming those lives. Yes. What's interesting and not talked about in our space is how much kids can teach us as parents. When you're looking at a problem, you as an adult don't ask as many questions as kids do. And whenever a kid asks a question, you think about it in the most simplest form. And if you're thinking about it in a simple form, it allows you to take the story and the lesson and really dissect it to where it's approachable by anyone. So if you could teach a kid, you could teach anyone. And what you're doing is you're giving your kid an opportunity, ask you questions, where you might be assuming other people would pick up the communication and understand you. So it helps with communication as a leader. And your kids are helping you do that without even knowing that. It's crazy the amount of greatness that comes out of these stories. And I'm just glad to be a part of it, honestly. Absolutely amazing. So how did your son perceive leadership as you guys were writing this book together? Yeah, so my son actually had me rephrase a couple of the questions. At the end, I had very, very hard questions that kids wouldn't really be able to answer. And I was like, well, if the parent can explain it. And he's like, stop just kind of lesson do we need to have here? And it's not like education where the kids need to get a degree, make it something simple. And so perceiving leadership from his perspective, he's seen me on stages. He actually loves to speak. He spoke for the first time last year at a speaking competition in Phoenix and just made me super proud. Wow. Yeah. If you ask him what leadership is, he'll probably tell you it's through example that you'll find leadership. So he watches me, he comes out to my speaking events, he picks up a lot of things and then he'll ask me questions at the end. But he's just a great kid. I'm very, very lucky. You are such a blessed parent. It's through example that you will find leadership that is so powerful. So he helped you offer the other books as well. The stories themselves were always written by me. And then he would tell me if it doesn't work. We have Jason Poclian who does the illustration for us. And what Jason will do is blocks of illustrations. So we'll send him the whole book and he'll do three to four pages every week. And then end up being a book. What my son, his name is Braden, what he'll do is he'll go through and be like, the fox's ears are colored this color with a black tip. And then here they're not. That's gonna be a distraction. I'm like, well, or the fox has fur on his leg and then he doesn't. Or one of the big ones that I never would have caught was the ox has a patch over his eye and then a couple, 10 pages later, it's over the other eye. I'm like, wow, that's, I never would have picked that up. He's a good kid. So the lessons from the book, have they noticed positive differences in their kids' behaviors? Whenever a parent talks to their kid, after a while, the kid develops a little block. where they can't hear everything mom and dad are saying because mom and dad are always given negative things. The book offers an opportunity for positive parenting to happen. So someone else is bringing in the problem, me, and then someone else is bringing in the solution, but mom and dad get to talk about the solution, not the problem. So all of the questions are geared towards solutions. So they look at their parents differently than they would have whenever they're getting yelled at for sticking their fingers in something that they're not supposed to stick their fingers in, You know, don't do that. You know, you hear that from parents all the time. So those are the opportunities that I'm opening up. It's just an opportunity for you to connect with your kids and parents and teachers. That's leadership at the maximum level. So the fact that parents are getting stuff out of this book and it's a leadership book and there's no leadership series, it spoke volumes whenever we published it and became a best seller the next day. It's needed. And yet I'm the only one filling the space right now. I like it. I actually have. a program where I teach people how to do this and become bestsellers themselves. On my website, leaders-kit.com, I have a package where people can pick up the exact 9-zip process that we use to publish the book and become a bestseller. I want people to contribute into the space. I want there to be a kids leadership category one day. And I think we're going to be able to do that. Dr. Seuss sold a hundred million books during his lifetime. And I think... with the power of eBooks and technology. Yes. That if we create a community of leadership authors for kids, we're gonna be able to surpass that easily in five years, which is powerful. And thank you for being a trailblazer in that space. Yeah, I have two people in my program where I do one-on-one coaching and their books will come out in the next month or two. They will be best sellers, guaranteed. Whenever I do my one-on-one, I guarantee best seller status. I know how to do it, what it takes and what categories and what keywords, how to publish it and get it out to the world. All three of the books that I published before this last one, which comes out on Friday, they're all worldwide bestsellers. I want to help people get that title in the space for kids books, especially leadership, because it's something that the world is just thirsty for. A thousand books are published on leadership just about every day. That's none of them are for kids. It's amazing that no one's done it. When you give your speeches, congratulations on being nationally ranked, by the way, what is the one thing that you think makes you connect with the audience the most? Being real and vulnerable is huge. My personal feelings when I watched somebody light up, and it was during President Obama's administration, I would go with him to event sites, and I would be at the White House, to everywhere. We would just do this whole thing. And I would always look at his calendar a thing called a meet and greet. It was somebody that the president was gonna meet and then he would talk with them for a minute and then they would take a candid photo, usually nothing posy, they would just take a photo of them communicating. And one of them really hit me hard. The president walked into the room and there was an old man in a chair and he was just hunched over. It didn't look like he was having a good day at all. His wheelchair was just sitting there and when the president walked in, he said, the man's shoulders rock back, right? And this face that was full of wrinkles turned into his smile and he immediately became a younger man and he was happy. The environment, the vibe changed, right? I didn't realize that was for me until later, whenever I was given some positive vibes to one of my team members. I was like, hey, how you doing? And immediately I saw the same reaction from somebody that was much younger. But I didn't have to be the president of the United States to make that impact. Right. And neither do you. Anyone can make that impact by being positive, by being there, by listening and really caring. Because when the president, a recognized leader, recognized someone else, that magic happened. And you are being recognized as a leader by somebody all the time. And you have that magic inside of you. That super powerful moment, it's vulnerable because like I experienced that and I felt the vibe and I was like, yeah, this is great. But I didn't realize that was for me until much later when I started doing similar things. There's a famous study out there that says you are the average of the top five people that you hang around. So I'm adding that your phone also affects who you are, your computer, and then what you take away, your notes, whatever you're writing in your journal, they make you who you are. So it's these five people plus those three. And that should be a new study being opened up because that is really the world we live in. And we don't do that self-reflection enough, I don't think. I know I wasn't doing it enough until I was writing about that moment. People want to be seen and when they are seen, like you said, they literally light up. Absolutely. Yeah, Roberta. And back to the note-taking now that you mentioned it, first there was this era of gratitude journals. We now had come to achievement journals because people are feeling so despondent and wondering if they're capable. But now this note taking idea, every time something happens, you're not like, Oh, wait a minute, let me make a note of this. I think I really like it. Yeah. One of the things I absolutely would recommend to your listeners and they'll help them become a better communicator and a better leader is to write down the top three things that are positive that happened every day. and the top three things that you could improve on. But it needs to go like this, the top three things that you can improve on and then the top three things that were good. That way, whenever you stop that thought process, it's a positive thing that stays in your head. Always end on a positive note, you become a better communicator. You'll start to rewire the Reticulator activating system in your brain, which is the key part to picking out things that are relevant. to making yourself better, to keeping yourself in a very good shape and to staying mentally sharp. And your brain will actually start looking for those positive things when you end on those positive things. Last words of wisdom, Atlas Altman, what would you like to say to us before you go? I would like to say you should never stop learning. I'm glad that your listeners are turning in a lot of their attention to you. Your show is amazing. Like you said at the beginning of every show, If you are an effective leader, you're going to be listening to shows like this. If you want to become a better communicator to become better, you're going to be listening to shows like this. If you are into making your life better, you're going to be listening to shows like this. So thank you to your listeners. If they want, they can come out to my website, leaders-kit.com. I'll have a special promo code, Roberta. So if they buy anything, they'll get a discount on there. And I'll also offer to you a little bit later, one of my books. So however you want to give away the book, the Fox and the Talks, the number one on Amazon, you can have that book for one of your listeners. Our Words of Wisdom has never stopped learning. Thank you so much for having me on your show, Roberta. It's been awesome. My pleasure Atlas. Thank you so much. Words of Wisdom from Atlas Altman, the bestselling author of leadership books. the former Air Force Special Operations Communications and nationally ranked speaker in the US. Again, let's remember that website. It's www.leaders-kit.com. Right. And if you've been listening to this show, it's gonna be slash Roberta so that you get discounts on the products on the website. So if you want to win the book, the fox in the box, go to our Apple website. If you hashtag Fox in the Box and write the rating on the Apple website of the Speaking and Communicating podcast, you will be the winner of Atlas Altman's Fox in the Box, the bestseller on Amazon. Thank you so much. I had so much fun. Absolutely, I did too. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review, and we'll be with you next time.