Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please remember to subscribe, give a rating and a review. Now part of communication is actually communicating what your personal brand is amongst other things. My guest today, Vinny Potestivo, he's an Emmy Award winner, a former MTV talent executive, and the CEO and founder of VPE Talent Agency. He's here to talk to us about personal branding, collaboration, and so much more from the entertainment industry and how it impacts us. And before I go any further, please help me welcome to the show. Hi Vinny. Hey, Roberta, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to share with business owners, individuals who find themselves to have a talent brand. I'm excited to share with you all how to get discovered, be more discoverable and have increased visibility. So your messages can be more sustainable. Your impact can generate income and we can live in a happier place. That's what you're down for the next 45 minutes or so then buckle in because this is going to be a great ride. I'm so excited. I can't wait. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Oh, I appreciate that. I'm from New York, born and raised in Staten Island. Growing up, I was the oldest of four. So it was my job to keep the kids out of the kitchen, keep the kids entertained, keep us away from danger. And I turned that big brother super skill into some super powers that helped me develop people's talents. to figure out how to best position them in the most positive light in media. And ultimately when I was about 20, I got to MTV and was asked to help create the talent development department, a new way to tap into working with talent. At first it was MTV films. I got to be in the room and actually audition Beyonce for Carmen, a hip hopper for her very first feature. Yeah, that's the first gig I ever get by the way. So the good. The best thing about that is that I didn't know what I didn't know. There was no social media then. So, you know, through the fear of not believing that I was doing something that I wasn't meant to be doing, there was no space for that in my young ego. And I got to start my industry alongside of the same people who came to MTV to get to the audience that I was looking to create in front of Beyonce, Mandy Moore, all the boy bands. Oh, yes. Female soloist. I got to work with Mandy more really closely and created lifelong relationships with these people. And then reality TV, my boss and Sharon Osborne and a couple of lunch sessions later, came up with this concept of real world for the Osborne's and then Jessica Simpson loved the idea. And she was getting married and wanted to show the world the newly words. Well, only when it's good. And then Ashton Kutcher. was sick and tired of just being seen as eye candy in a movie and being labeled as, you know, the it boy in TV. He wanted to produce content and not just a TV show, but he wanted to show the industry he was capable of creating a mega hit. He was really, really laser focused on what that first show was going to be. And we got to collaborate with him and created Punk'd together as a brand and to have been at MTV at a point where those types of creators have to pass through those gates to get to audience. I got to collaborate with the most unique individuals from all walks of life. And now I do the same exact thing, except, except the truth of the matter is Roberta is that you probably own more content than they do because you have a podcast, so snaps kudos to you. It's all about ownership now, right? It used to be about let's get on TV. Let's create an audience. Let's try to retain the audience and see what we can take with us now. Now we can own our content. Now we have the ability to say what we want. And when we get discovered that we're doing it in a way that we want to be seen in with people who we want to be seen next to talking about topics that are important, that we want to have give visibility to. That's cool where we're at right now. And that all of that is because of social media and to be honest, podcasting. is the very beginning part of media 3.0, you know, this decentralized world where we own our content, it's on someone else's platform. It's a growing industry. It's growing because our collaborations, you know, this episode is proof that the space is growing. We're part of the alchemy of this expanding industry. I know what that feels like. I was in that in reality TV and unscripted TV in the 90s. It feels very, very similar. And the truth of the matter is, is with all my TV experience, it's way easier for me to convert a podcast into a television show or another project. It's easier for me to convert a podcast into a media project than it is a book into a TV show or even a movie into a TV show. It's easier for me to go podcast to TV or podcast to book. So I'm fully leaned in on podcasts as a medium. And really. have been to be honest, since my very first podcast, a broadcast flip, which was a show called Man and Wife with Fat Man Scoop and his wife, Shonda Freeman. And it was 2006. And it was a very necessary conversation, a very urgent and needed way to talk about sex that did not look like Love Line did when I grew up watching two guys talking about sex and joking around from a very alpha male perspective. And this podcast allowed me to do that. And I'm finally in front of the mic, which is about as comfortable as I'll ever be, you know, being on screen. But the thing I love about it is that, you know, people own like television networks. Like there's a person who owns TV networks where it's like publicly traded. People don't own the podcast industry. We own our podcasts and I can show up for this interview and not. be nervous and not get sweaty palms. I get really sweaty palms when I get in my head about. I hope I don't make you feel that way, by the way, during the interview. No, and it's just the stories we tell ourselves. So many of us might not wanna get on camera because what am I gonna say? I don't know what to say. I don't know how to answer. I don't know what they're gonna ask me. So deep in our head that we talk ourselves out of it. I was that person for a very long time, but knowing that I'm showing up, to be honest, knowing that I'm showing up. in your space, Roberta, like this is like your house and I'm your guest. I have a lot of confidence in that world. Yeah, I feel that. Thank you so much. I feel that. Yes. First of all, did you meet the king of state and island, Pete Davidson? Is he the king? That's what I call him. I'll give it to him. He's every once in a while that island goes through a rebrand, you know, with the Jersey Shore kids or. Now, obviously, SNL. Yeah, it's nice. It's nice to come from a little island that people are aware of, to be really honest. Also, we got Christina Aguilera. There you go. Steve Buscemi. Love him in the wedding singer. Let's not get into that. Yes. Oh my gosh, exactly. Steve, if you realize they did this, pinnacle. Yes. The other thing I found that, speaking of Mindy Moore, who I love in A Walk to Remember, she said, you now deserve your place in the sun. Because you've always been the behind the scenes guy. Is that the reason you stayed there for so long because of what you said earlier about being shy on camera? Well, I think I just found my strength someplace and I enjoyed being someplace where other people recognized my strength and I recognized my strength. It was very rewarding for me to be off camera, to be creative, to get to be in the room. I mean... towards the end of my career, sure, I got to have a voice in that room. In the beginning of my career, I was invited in the room. Like that's major. To have the presence, you know, to be in that room. That's where so many opportunities came my way that if it wasn't for my gut instinct to just wanna be someplace, to be a part of something, that's really what drove me. I'm thinking about this one story when I started MTV and our hosts were called VJs, Video Jockeys. And I went down to the studio and it was his first show that he was going to host. And Will I am was the guest. It was a cool show. We did the whole 30 minute show. And then afterwards, Will I am turned to his manager and was like, so like, wait, I'm in the top number one video and I'm only in this show for like three minutes. But if I host the show, I can be in it for 30 minutes. He's like, how do I host a show around here? And he kind of laughed and everyone looked at me and I was like, wait, is this like I could this my. Is this my opportunity? I know to call. Wait, would you really host a show for 30 minutes? It sounds like something I need to run by my boss, but it certainly sounds like something that I would wanna watch. I think that's a great idea. I think we think that you would never wanna be a host. And I think we would love to have you as a host. And that was a one week turnaround. The Will.i.am half hour mega mix original programming came up and that was the bite. That was when I realized that. Alan had a connection to MTV, but weren't connected to MTV. The connection was through the label, through the manager to the network. And what our department was able to do was listen to the talent. And I say it this way in the eighties and nineties, you know, we kind of gave them the cameras to make these music videos and the late nineties, it became about the audience, you know, you saw the TV, you know, the cameras. the cameras were always on the celebrity and the audience. That was the story. And the MTV set and yes, they'll be clapping after the song. Yes. Then my 10 years was we gave the cameras to the celebrities. I said, well, get out of our Times Square studio and go tell your story of your life, Jessica Simpson and Mandy Moore and the Osborne. Here's the cameras, go take them. And then I left in 07, which is just when I say, MTV took all those cameras back from the celebrities and then they gave it to the kids. Here's the Hills. The challenge, the Jersey Shore, Laguna Beach. Maybe two to three years later is when Facebook and MySpace are verbs and nouns and we're using them in sentences. And then ultimately we don't wanna be represented in media. We want to represent the media. We don't want just to be included in the conversation. We want inclusion in the conversation. And that's, it was cool to see that media journey during my 10 year period at MTV, where we go, by the way, We go from the real people economy to the expert economy. We're currently in the creator economy. I like to point that out because like, if you ask me, that's just like money, people making an excuse for it to be okay to work with us. Yeah. So I think the creative economy though, what about the impact of YouTube? So you started before there was YouTube, right? Yeah, yeah, YouTube, you know, for how did it change the landscape that you've just talked about? Do you know what the single moment was that changed the relationship? The Super Bowl Janet. That's sure. It's like, yes, that moment that we call it nipple gate. But that moment, that's right. That was a serious moment. We're all sudden the data just blew. I mean, I remember sitting in. We had this meeting called Walter WALTER. an acronym for we all like to earn ratings. And we would have emergency Walter meetings. And it was really because our ratings were on a decline. And you can literally see the decline. We didn't see the scope in television. But we saw the decline on our network, you know, day after day, week after week, we saw the numbers started going down, we didn't know where they were going. Assumably, we were thought maybe ESPN2 or Disney or some other platform that, you know, sort of connected with a youth audience. But YouTube took away the need for playlists, to be really honest. YouTube took away the cassette, the DVD. Yeah, that's what I grew up with. Yeah, right, it took away so many of the ways that we shared content, that we learned how to share content, and YouTube came in as a really strong supplement to be able to allow people to have instant access to content. By the way, YouTube came out roughly around the same time that podcasting also came out. I tried to do a podcast. Yeah. Podcasting, I would say technically Oh three Oh four YouTube podcasting for sure. I think Oh four because that's when there was a case against Adam Curry and MTV networks about ownership over MTV.com. And that was right when he launched and created the RSS. One of the VJs from MTV created the extension for the Podcast URL RSS. Yeah, simple syndication and all it says is that there's an audio file and if I ping it and something's there I can download it when I have internet again It's really cool to think about all the creation of media types that came out of that MTV World like I look back at my 10 years there and I'll say this like the thing we got right was we I first off I get a lot of blame and rightfully so but I get a lot of blame for why there's no more music videos on that network. Like it was our department that was creating unscripted programming that was dominating that network. So like, I'm proud to say, I'm proud to say that, but we changed the time. You know, we said why does an artist only get one five minute segment on the late show to talk about their life or showcase something that's serious about them and they have to come out with an album to do it. We're a platform. We have access to youth culture. When we put things in front of them, they take action. Why can't we just, Give Jessica Simpson, to be honest, Jessica Simpson at a point in time where the media had a tremendous opinion on what a young female should do and how she should act and how she should dress and what she should do after she gets married and what her wedding should look like, you know, a tremendous impact that the media had. And what I'm feeding to the newlywed reality show created the show. Yeah, she said, I want I want my time. I need my time. My rules, my terms. and I'll let you in on my life and I'll show you what I do, but you have to see what I do in 30 minute increment. Not in a small window where you're comparing me to Christina and Britney and Pink and all the other female artists of the time. She was just very, very different. And it was a big reason why Jo Simpson, her father, came into the network and pitched that show as it was an opportunity to show America, especially young America that was watching MTV, what a woman could be, like a modern woman could be like in a marriage. first and foremost. And it was something that we hadn't even talked about. And then, because life imitates art and art imitates life. I'll never forget when Jamie Lynn Spears was pregnant and a cover article came out about her pregnancy. That was the article that inspired Teen Mom on MTV. And they said, this is an important story for people to see. And we want to show people the and the salacious side of what being a young mom could look like. And that's literally where the birth and that's cool. That's cool to be part of a media company that takes responsibility and creating conversations and creating awareness and creating words and creating opportunities for action. I really miss that about television that I got to work in the late 90s. You know, the responsibility, the storytelling aspect of it. Yeah. My job at MTV was to call up celebrities and see if they wanted shows. Now. you need an agent and there's a production company and people bid on it and like, you would never give away an idea without a license, you know, trademarking it and all the other things that, you know, it takes. So I was really, really blessed to be at MTV at a point in time where those creators that I'd loved working with had to pass through 1515 Broadway on MTV to get to the audience is a cool time. But I learned so much, you know, Mandy Moore taught me how to be on time. I love that because celebrities are known for not being punctual. Oh man, she is like, if you say 6.30, she's like 5.45. I'm like, man, call me if you're going to be that early because I don't want you to be there without me. So because you're not allowed to be there because it's my responsibility to take care of you. You know, I was lucky to work with people who became my friends and I think that kind of spoiled me. And now I really love working with my friends. That's the coolest part of being sort of a creative entrepreneur is a point where your friends are your coworkers and then clients and now my clients. And then your clients become your friends when you start your business. Now my friends and my clients, we're all growing together and creating together. And that was my goal. That's what I loved about MTV. It felt like I knew those top 10 artists for the top 10 videos of the week. Well, I did, I had access to them. You could call up, we can call on them and say, Hey, would you like to host a show? Would you like to come through and contribute to, I don't know. So we did so many cool pro social campaigns at MTV that I loved working. there. So for me, youth culture has been a big part of my journey. I became an advisor on a network called bespoke TV. Yeah, like 18 to 23 year old young female audience. And it's like right in my sweet spot. And it's been a really cool opportunity to keep creating content and doing it with people who own their IP. That's the difference own your content because the future of bundling we know we see peacock and HBO Max and all these new Right. And you know, like someone's got friends and someone's got Seinfeld and someone's got Steve Harvey show and someone, you know, they Suits like to bounce around on all these different apps. That's because those networks own the IP What we'll be able to do as podcasters people who are creating our own content people who are creating their own video series that have real IP in the future I mean, I know more platforms have been created than podcasts have been created right I could name new channels than I could new podcasts right now. So. Wow. Speaking of that, you say that you know how to take a podcast and let it be featured on IMDB. Yeah. Like, you know how we look for movie stars, say Minda Moore, IMDB, you want to see all the movies and TV shows just actually. You can do the same thing with a podcast. Yeah. So IMDB is the Internet Movie Database. It's owned by Amazon and the Internet Movie Database is a place for creative IP, intellectual property. So you can't watch a walk to remember on IMDB, but you can see who created it, who directed it, who were the actors, how many episodes, what was the box office number, what were all gives you a whole bunch of hundreds, by the way, of data points about the movie itself. And what happened a couple of years ago, actually, probably two years ago now was IMDB approved podcasts as an approved form of intellectual property that can receive credit. on IMDB.com and here's the benefit. So there's something called domain authority. Out of 100 points, the higher your domain authority, the more trusted your website is. And this matters for websites like Google who scrape your website for information. So IMDB has a very high domain authority. So what it tells Google, it has new data point. Google says, this is really legit information. We're gonna make sure it shows up in search results. Not, okay. That's nice. Okay. No, how it feels sometimes as a podcast or we come up with these episodes and we hope that they show up in our search engine results. Right? Right. So what IMDB allows us to do is upload our title for his intellectual property, upload us as the owner, executive producer, writer, host, attach all of our guests, create each episode that we've ever created and attached to the description. This is major because it might feel duplicative. based on how far you are in your career or what you have been doing with your podcast. I'd be happy to do it. Please, I'm like, trust me. I'd be happy to do it. It's a whole new set of information that you've just been sitting on that Google doesn't know yet. It also allows you to give, this is my favorite part, you get to give credit not just to yourself, but to others. It's really cool. By the way, I work in TV. So when I work on a show as a casting director, I get my credit on IMDb because I want Bravo. to see the MTV guy casting the show. And then I went to A&E, to C&E casting, the Bravo show. I built a whole career having credits on IMTV. It's a group of expertise. By the way, guests, if you win awards, if you have a production company, if you have contact information from how you like to get contacted and unlimited. I always ask, yeah. The photos, videos, any social media content you created to promote your episode, you can upload that. to IMDB and it's just gonna change your world. It's gonna change how you rank on Google. It's going to change your Google search images, your Google image search completely. That's my favorite part, by the way. So if you have an X or a weird picture, you're trying to squish down to the second page. This is a killer way. And this is like less than a week I'm seeing results. On average, less than a week. That is amazing. If you're uploading, if you're creating episodes and including description in those episodes and attaching photo, a screenshot of the two shots. By the way, shout out to my four legged companions here. Hi, welcome to the show. Little Dudley Greenfield. He's the accountant here at VPE. Much needed services. Yes. And it's the things that keep life happening, right? Of course, of course. Yes. Oh, I'm going to be, I'm going. Yes. Cause another thing they've mentioned is that the more you are on podcasts, the more that you're gonna rank on Google when your name is searched. So if I say Vinnie Portesivo, because of the many podcasts you've been on, it's just gonna be a whole bunch of pages with your name on it. Oh, wow. I have to tell you something. If someone would have told me how valuable being a podcast guest was, it's like the one thing no one told me that I had to learn myself the hard way. And like, sometimes the hard way is the best way because it meant I got to meet. with hundreds of people one-on-one, which is actually in my strength. That's like reality casting for me. So I'm really good. Like what we're doing, I'm great at. The old version of my job. Well, I didn't mean to say that, but I'm- No, but you are. I'm happy. I'm great at it because I'm happy with it and I love the product and I trust the product. And I know I have to bring certain value and information to be able to make this valuable for you to be able to do your job. I know this because- I've been in your seat. I've for two decades was the person who edited, actually in TV I had to edit my voice out of every interview. And then basically just put like photo montages and like screenshots of their websites on Peekble's so that the network executives would get to understand who you are and it's just basically a series of soundbites that I would edit together. This. this collaborative result that we get to create in podcasting. Not does it only just end in an amazing episode that is evergreen and searchable forever, but it changes the alchemy of what I do next. That's the part that I really like love most about podcasting. Roberta is a good girl. You know, is you is like, it's us, how you create, how you prepped me in the beginning before we even recorded the way you walk me through the process. Everyone is different. Like I mentioned, even at MTV. Working on making the band with Diddy, a very different experience than newlyweds or, you know, the challenge with TJ Lavin, where all I have to do is go to an exotic island for two weeks and make sure. And get paid? No, not a bad gig. I don't think you were complaining. Not a bad gig. No. Shout out to TJ Lavin. Also shout out to Nick Cannon and DJ D-Wrek, the three old guys that I put on MTV 20 years ago who have. brilliant franchises, the Wild'n Out and the Challenger killing it. Yes. You've created so much. So shout out to those guys. You've created so many. It's almost like you're the grandpa and looking at your grandchildren growing and being big. You were the first. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, when I got into podcasting, people started talking about legacy a lot. And I just didn't come from a family of money or like legacy and money tend to be tied really closely together. So when everyone was like, what's your legacy? I was like, what's my legacy? I'm like, Mandy Moore and- Look at all this. Yance. Like, look at this legacy. I'm in it, I'm in my legacy. This is, that I should be so lucky. And that's just the beginning part, you know? That was the school part. That was where finally, finally school was rewarding to me when I got to MTV and I learned with really empathetic conditioned creators who were inclusive every step of the way. versus my own personal experiences in school and high school and junior high, which were not good at all based on getting picked on and all the things, I'm sure we all have our stories and stuff like that, but it was, I was in a much healthier space and open to learning and learn to be a brilliant collaborator because I saw some of the best people fail and I saw them get back up and do it again and then rock it out and I just learned from the best. So I'm lucky. collaboration, working with people you like and trust and who become your friends, which is the same in any workplace, not just on television. Yeah. I think you're right on that. I think that's what allows me, even in this podcast episode, it allows me to show up at a hundred percent from the gecko where I don't have to warm up to sort of get into it. I come from a place of trust because of the process that we went on to get here and casting, I rely on that. I tell myself like, Vin, you are a good judge of character. You don't give up your time easy or often. And when you do, it's worth it. This is the result. Most definitely. There's one other person who gave you a shout out. Well, my cousin and I fight over who's better, Stephen Colbert or just what, but we're not going to get into that. And he gave you a shout out. That's so funny. That is so funny. Yeah. That was pretty cool to be part of the daily show. I'm open to opportunities. So, right. Some information got released from the DNC. back in the Obama era about like, what would make an ideal Democratic, you know, represented, like what would be the ideal Democrat to speak up at the rally? Yeah. Rallies. It was real literal too. So they thought it would be real funny to go to someone like me with like a, an esteemed casting background and casting housewives, as they said, women who flip tables and matchmakers. So disrespectful, but, but funny, but funny and relevant and It's one of the things that I got to collaborate on with. You know what I mean? Like, are you kidding me? This? Yeah. My passion and my interest in media, as strange and unique as they are, have given me the opportunity to experience the conversations and projects I had access to. And then I made friends along the way. That was what I wanted. I always really appreciated having like high output, talented friends. I really like being surrounded by people who really care and are mindful of their output. There's a human to human connection and it's not about who's what, where in Hollywood. Now let's talk about personal branding. What are some of the key things you think go into branding yourself in over two, three decades of being in this industry? You know exactly what makes one stand out from the other. And am I wrong to say it's not just talent only? Oh yeah, absolutely. It's not just talent only. I've met so many talented people who didn't know how to use it or showcase it. Also, I've met so many people who are great at doing things well, and that were great at doing things poorly, and both were equally as successful. Any type of process is generally interesting to watch because of the choices that one has to make. If it's a more comedic journey versus a more straight through journey, we both get value out of that. It's about finding what makes someone fascinating. If I can tell you what I think makes you fascinating, that also means that I can tell you what I think makes you similar, which is really important. So understanding the baseline, understanding to the audience that you're looking to build your profile in front of, what makes us similar, that's really, really important. That could be a goal, it could be a value, it could be an academic association, it could be a nonprofit association, it could be so many things. But finding those base similarities, that's something that I actually find people skip over in the very beginning process of understanding your personal brand. It's like they try to understand what makes them fascinating and amazing. To me, that's like, I guess they would say, that's the sizzle that, you know, they don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle. That's the part you smell and that's the part that fills the room and you can taste it before you get there. But if you don't understand what quality beef you're dealing with. It's going to be really hard to follow through on that promise. So understanding for me, I like to say 2D, we're kind of getting into 3D territory, but there's intersections I like to be in. Like for example, my intersection I would say is like passion and power. I like people knowing that I'm passionate about projects and also know that I have the ability to push through and make things happen. But because I'm aware of my passion and power pay, I have to be careful that I'm not. over passionate, which can be interpreted as emotional or indifferent. Yeah. And different, right? Like if there's like too much of it or lack of it, right? Right. And with power, I have to come from a place of yes, because no one likes to be told no. So if I hear an idea, and it's a great idea, and I think it's like 70% to where it could be, I just have to remind myself to not start by saying no, I would do it this way, I have to remind myself that overtly I can come across too powerful and no is much louder than yes. Unfortunately, I'll say that again. We hear no, we hear no, like it's the loudest. No, we hear yes. And we're like, oh, we didn't get it. Wasn't enough yet. Yeah. Well, you know what I mean? I can go through so many scenarios of what I'm trying to talk about, you know, like a bad relationship, like, well, did he tell you he wasn't going to call you? And you're like, yeah, he told me that. And like, well, why did you think he was going to call you? He said he was a good, yeah, like he said, he said it, but we hear no way, way louder, we're quicker than we hear. Yes. Maybe as a place of protection, you know, for me, I'm thinking maybe it comes from a place of protection, especially in media where we want to own our content because we know they're trying to take it from us quote unquote, or someone's trying to do something. It feels like we have to hold onto it tightly. We don't know why, but we know we have to hold onto it. I think that's a survival instinct thing. Yeah, that's the difference of where we're at now and the brink of what Web3 is bringing to us. When they really flesh out the ability to connect blockchain to our podcast episodes and we can start collaborating on a level that's traceable, that's going to give us individuals the same power that large companies have. And I'm really looking forward to that moment. A lot of it will be led by the creative communicators of our industries. I think that's what podcasting might be doing is priming all of the industries, dental, doctors, lawyers, real estate. There is a siloed industry of podcasting, but predominantly podcasting fractures most economies. And I think what we're doing is figuring out who are the articulate experts, right? They're not necessarily going to be seen as hosts or podcasters. They're just really, really well-spoken people who can get in front of a television camera or behind a mic. and talk about their expertise in a way that we, the public audience, want it elevated. Right. We're getting tired of social media content. And I'll tell you this. You know how many more people are saying, I don't have that account or this account. So true. It doesn't show up in search. And we started talking about search from the get-go. And even as of now, Google has already removed the little play button that it used to give podcast search results. So you used to be able to search for something, find an episode, hit the play button, start listening. That left in December of 2022. And in February of 2023, Google announced that they will no longer be showing podcasts as part of search based information. Wow. So if you're not creating blogs about your episodes, then Google isn't going to be indexing your podcast. If you're only publishing your podcast as an episode. If you have a blog, it'll read a blog and it's still doing what it does with blogs. But if it's only coming out in the form of an episode on a podcast. It's no longer going to show up in search search. Vinny, tell us what the P.E. talent agency does before you go, please. Oh, I love that. We just help people get discovered. We help people and brands get discovered and have a 25 year history in doing it. It's plain and simple. There you go. And where on socials can we find it? Not socials, interwebs, all the online. I hang out on LinkedIn. If you really want any of my actual username or information like that. And my advice would be go to Roberta's friend list. Look through the list down to the V's for Vinny. Find me there. You'll also find me in the five star review that I left for Roberta. So if I'm leaving Roberta a five star review, please let this be the episode that brings you wherever you wherever you push play. You're going to have to stop this podcast soon because it's coming to an end. So like when you hit end two things quickly leave a five star review and then take a snapshot and share it. because sharing it is what leads to discoverability. Exactly. Words of wisdom from Vinnie Potestivo on the former MTV talent development exec and CEO and founder of VPE talent agency. This has been so exciting. Too bad you have to go with this such fun conversation. I'll come back, I'll come back. Please do. Yes, we all want to listen to you again. You have so much to share. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review and we'll be with you next time.