Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome everyone to our live session where we talk about assertive communication in the workplace. And Nelly's with me today. Hi Nelly. Hi, how are you? Thank you for having me Roberta. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to be your admin as well. Thank you for being here and thank you for accepting the job. I know it's a lot of work and you already have your hands full. You work so hard with your other friends. It's all right. I'm used to this social media world so.
00:28
I don't mind helping you out and in everything I'm doing, I feel public speaking is so important. So yeah, it's all good. It certainly is. And today what our audience chose was they wanted to hear more about a set of communication in the workplace. So before I start with what I'm bringing, what is it that you think of when you hear the term a sort of communication? I mean, I'm studying organizational psychology right now. And so everything is all about the workplace and
00:58
I think communication is one of the most important things in our lives, so that way other people can understand us. And the assertive part is important too, because people need to be able to understand what's important to you, and you need to be able to share your views, your beliefs, your needs. And I feel like if you aren't assertive, then people might take advantage of you, and they won't really know what's important to you. So I feel like being able to communicate
01:27
assertively is like your way to be like your own best advocate. So I feel like you have to do that. And sometimes it's not always so comfortable, but it's important. And I think it's something that gets better with practice as you're in the workplace more and you're in, you know, different kinds of companies and you're in different roles. I think that that gets easier. It certainly does. Cause I remember from my first job, I wasn't as outspoken as I became over the course of my career.
01:57
Because usually when you're a fresh graduate, you're afraid to speak up in case, you don't know how we're gonna be perceived. You still trying to figure out what this corporate world looks like, what's the environment like. But one thing you need to remember first of all, is you're a brand. We knew growing up, we used to think brands are just products that they advertise on TV. You're a brand yourself and so-
02:23
there has to be a way in which when people perceive you, you need to take control of that. And one of the things you need to add to just your expertise based on what you were trained in a university is how well you speak in project meetings, to clients, how you communicate with your coworkers as well. I, yeah, I agree with you completely. And I didn't know so much about the branding until like, you know, my last role where
02:52
I realized that not only was our company a brand, but I too was a brand. And like when people would see me on Facebook, they would make an association with me and the company that I was working for. And so that was a little bit different for me because I was used to like, you know, Nike is a brand, it's obvious, right? I'm like, wow, I'm a brand too. So it is important for me to convey, you know, who I am. So people have an understanding of what I'm all about. And it's all about communication. And when people don't communicate well, that's when we have problems.
03:22
So many battles, so many issues have been had because people don't communicate well. So it's a matter of learning how to communicate and also to be able to listen to others and be like an active listener when they are communicating. I think that's a part of it too, because sometimes- It goes both ways, yeah. They talk and talk and talk, but they don't listen. So they're missing out on what's happening. So I think that's kind of the answer.
03:49
As they say, two years and one month using proportion. When you listen to others, you also make them realize that they have to listen to you when it's your turn to speak. Because when you just talk, talk, talk, you talk at them, you don't speaking with them, talking with them. So each time they're like, oh yeah, they roll their eyes, they just sit there, walls up.
04:13
and they just wait for you to be done and they stand up and they'll go back to their desk. So you also have to listen to what others have to say. It's a two-way street. Right, it has to be a communication. Like there has to be a flow and that you have to ask the type of questions where it's going to elicit an actual response beyond like a yes or a no. There's a way that you can ask a question where somebody is going to have to elaborate and answer that question and maybe think deeply, think critically.
04:42
Because I think that's what we learn in these exchanges, you know, and having these questions. And sometimes people don't always phrase the questions in the best way, and it gives somebody an out. You know, phrase a certain way, like if you're trying to have a certain kind of communication, ask the question, you know, so they're going to give you a response so that way you can have this, you know, meaningful exchange. So like Tonya Robbins said, that takes. Yeah. And I think questioning strategies, I think that takes time too. Yeah. Tonya Robbins says the quality of the questions.
05:11
that you asked that are important. And then when it comes to leadership roles, when you enter the corporate world, everybody wants to climb the corporate ladder, you wanna be promoted. When it comes to leadership roles, I find that in my experience and research has shown that the kind of people they choose is not the smartest people, but it's the people who can influence others are able to communicate, people who are able to motivate others towards a common goal.
05:41
and who are able to inspire others to work something, to do something bigger than themselves. So it's not the smartest guy who was a valedictorian who's gonna be CEO necessarily. He's going to be able to speak up and get others to buy into a bigger vision. So CEOs are not necessarily the smartest, in fact, Richard Brinson said, I hire people smarter than me, that's why I'm a billionaire.
06:09
I did a project on Brunson in my leadership class and we had to pick somebody and that's actually who my project was on. And right, he said that you hire the experts in the areas where you are not strong, you find those people that can compensate and this, you know, the best leaders do that. And I think you have to also be able, you know, be vulnerable enough to admit that this is not an area where this is my strength. And I need somebody to help me here. I need somebody to help me here. This is the thing that, you know, I want to work on.
06:36
And I think being able to influence others and impact others is so key. I mean, the talk that I posted a couple of days ago with Edmai Letz and the one girl, and she wrote a whole book about influence as my superpower, which I still have yet to read, but I want to get it. And she talks all about the fact that, you know, influencing people is just so important. And that's what makes like an impact. So, right. I mean, having intelligence, that's great, you know, but that's not at the end of the day, that's not necessarily going to be enough.
07:06
people have to want to listen to you. In the marketing world, we say, they have to know you like you trust you before anything happens. And how do you make that happen? I mean, you have to start creating this report, getting this influence with people. And that way they can listen to this idea. And so, yeah, I would completely agree with you. You have to be able to communicate to be able to do that. Yes, and in a way that you said that influences people. And when it comes to,
07:36
people liking, trusting you, those are the people they wanna work with and surround themselves with at work. So even during job interviews, if you don't show that side of the, that you can be liked, that you can be trusted and be relied on, it's not likely that you will get the job. So you have to develop those skills. And also when you, I liked and trusted and people wanna work with you, usually those types of personalities are the ones that are
08:06
more solution driven rather than problem driven. The conflict type personalities are the ones who are problem driven. They always look for the problem with us in the middle of the solution. I mean we need all kinds of people right because there's you know every business has a has a is trying to solve a problem right that's the nature of it and there's some people like you know who are the problem solvers but right there's people who look for the problems.
08:31
We need those kinds of people too, because we need to have a variety of different people. Yes. We need them too, but right, everybody would rather be able to figure out the solution and what's the quickest way to the solution. So yeah, I think that's all important. Yes, there certainly is a place for them with regards to the kind of work that gets done, like I said, in finding the problems, so that you sell to the client what the potential solutions are and what the business can do for them. However, if say for instance, I'm working on a project with you,
09:01
There's a certain section I'm responsible for. There's a section you're responsible for. If you are not a people person and if you are hard to deal with, and our boss says to me, Roberta, you have to get this part of the report from Nelly. I drag my feet going to your office because I'm like, oh no, I don't wanna talk to her. She's so difficult to deal with. Can't I just send an email? You know what I mean? Sometimes if you are the type of person where you're hard to get through, everybody.
09:29
doesn't want to sit next to you in the boardroom, it becomes hard to work with you. So what can you do if you have that type of personality, if you're just introverted and you don't want to deal with people, is there something you can do to make your colleagues find it a little easier to work with you? I don't know, I'm not an introverted person, so that's a hard one for me. And I feel like I'm sociable enough and I want people to like me and I feel like I...
09:54
That's part of what I try to do is make connections with people and engage, but not everybody is that way. I don't know what the percentage is, if it's half and half or what, but there are plenty of introverted people who are very successful. And even in the IO psychology world that I'm getting a part of, there are a lot of people there who are more introverted and we need those people too. So if they're not so apt to speak up and people know the personalities in the room, I think it's the responsibility of the leader
10:23
to maybe draw that information from that person. You know, maybe call on them to answer or maybe if they're working, I don't know how they do it all, like in small groups or whatever, but if it's a more like maybe not a stressful situation where there's like, you know, 30 people looking at you and you have to speak, it might be a little bit more uncomfortable in that situation. But if there's a way to get the information where that person's going to be willing to share, you know,
10:53
in a not so stressful manner, I think that they can do that. Or maybe ask the person in advance of the meeting for some other- I was about to say, if you're the director of a division, you just ask them, listen, when you go to the project meeting today, I'm gonna ask you to talk about what you did, your section, so that you explain to the rest of your colleagues what it is that you're contributing, and for them to get ready, whatever technique they use to breathe and get ready and psych themselves into knowing that they're gonna be asked to speak at some point.
11:23
maybe especially with those who are new to the working environment, those in leadership positions can do that in order to support them. Because yes, everybody does little in a little support, a little mentorship in that aspect. Yeah, and I think maybe people get comfortable like over time, if they if they start just maybe making, you know, small contributions during a meeting, they'll just get used to doing that. So I don't want to say like, don't call on them and don't ask them to take this uncomfortable action.
11:51
because it kind of gives them an out. It doesn't give them the chance to grow. They have to grow professionally. I'm not saying they have to be the one to go and talk in front of everybody every time, but even if they can just start to share like a little bit each time, I think would be good. But I mean, asking them in advance some of the information so they could say, you know, previously I spoke with, you know, this person and these were their ideas, they could be brought up that way. And then maybe that's not so overwhelming.
12:18
And that way you don't have to be called on in the meeting and somebody's reading your words, you know? Or maybe like another person, if you're working with somebody on a team, maybe that person is more apt to share, you know, what that person is doing. What you did for the project team. Like I said earlier, it is an important skill to develop. And one of the reasons is when you get the exposure that you do in the industry just by speaking up,
12:47
because when there are other companies that do the same, that are in the same project, you've got clients and over time, if you speak up, they start to notice you. And then one day you might get a better offer. I'm not saying everybody should keep changing jobs, but one day you might get a better offer just because when you speak, you are remembered. You are not forgettable. Right, you have to put yourself out there.
13:13
whatever you happen to say, they're going to get to know you, especially if you have a concern. If you never voiced that concern, nobody knows. But if you're that person and you're pointing things out, whether they like it or not, they're going to have to deal with it. So, I feel like we don't, you don't have to be aggressive about it, but you're the same token, you can't be passive either. I think you have to be able to exert your views and yeah, you're going to be remembered because you're the person that's talking. So, and there's a lot of introverts that are speakers.
13:43
You know, like Brene Brown, who I follow, she talks about herself being an introvert. I remember. There are a lot of speakers out there who say that they're introverted, yet they give speeches all the time, you know, like every week, you know, monthly. I mean, they're giving lots of speeches. So just because you're an introvert doesn't mean that you can't get over that. But maybe that's, you know, maybe that's just something that you have to work on, you know? And it's something, like you said, you can embrace but still be able to speak like Brene Brown.
14:12
It doesn't mean suddenly be like Nelly and be social. And on the point of raising concerns, remember when we were in school, we were taught, ask the dumb question, because half the classes are already thinking of the same questions, just that everybody's afraid to ask. So show leadership and be proactive by you raising your hand and asking the question. That's the exact same thing you do at a meeting. When you raise a concern, you'll find that half the people in the room were thinking the same thing, but were afraid to ask.
14:41
And when you ask it, you see heads shaking with people looking at, that's what I was thinking too. Right, it's like taking one for the team, I feel like. You have to be that brave, vulnerable person to ask the question. And as we say, like in my teaching days, like there's no stupid questions. And the stupid question is the one that's not asked, because if you are wondering that question, I'm sure somebody else in the room is wondering that same question. So it's good to ask it, it's good to ask questions. That's how we learn.
15:09
And sometimes that question could lead to another question, you know, and so on. So, yeah, but I think you have to have a workplace where things are comfortable too. It has to be conducive to that atmosphere where you're willing to ask that question. And I think employers need to create that environment where it's comfortable too. And I feel like if you have that environment, people feel comfortable to be able to participate, ask questions and give comments.
15:39
But I feel like if you have like this authoritarian leader, you're not gonna have the kind of communication. You're not gonna have the kind of organizational culture that you want and you're not gonna get this communication. So I think it's important on both ends that employers make this happen. And employees sometimes just, they have to put themselves out there sometimes and take this uncomfortable action because the more you do it, the easier it's going to be. I just, you just have to practice.
16:06
You just have to, you just. Everything needs practice. Yeah. And if employers do take the initiative to make, to create a culture where the employees can speak up, that's when employees also, they go the extra mile for you. If you don't care about people, if you act like you're still in the industrial revolution, 430 hits and even if they're not done, they go home. They start their cars and they go home. But if the deadline is tonight,
16:35
and it's beyond office hours, they will stay because of how you've created the kind of culture. Right, because they want to work for you and they want to impress you. I had that when I worked at a camp. We had to get things done and I know, you know, a lot of the counselors, they like look looked up to me and we had to get things done and I didn't make anybody stay longer because I was going to get things done and some of them wanted to stay and help me.
17:00
They didn't love the job itself, all the different aspects, but they wanted to make sure things were ready because they liked me and they wanted to help me out. So I feel- You made them feel, that's right. Right, right, right. So if you can establish that rapport, I think that makes it so much easier. But if you don't have this good relationship, if the employer employees don't have this good relationship, they're not gonna wanna go above and beyond. They're not gonna wanna provide extra value because they're not feeling appreciated. And I mean, we had so many of these issues.
17:27
you know, in the workplace, you know, after the pandemic, people are starting to reevaluate how are they being treated. And then, you know, as a result, some people left, you know, and they, you know, other employers or started their own, you know, companies and their entrepreneurs. So, so yeah, I think that's important. So I think communication figures into all of it and being able to stand up for yourself and represent yourself because nobody else is necessarily going to do that, you know? And so you have to start taking that on yourself.
17:56
What do you think, where do leaders, where can they draw the line when it comes to being interested in the employees welfare in asking, you know, Nelly, how are your kids, and where do they draw a line and asking about those aspects of life and ask too much. Right. And so I feel like that's kind of subjective too and I feel like that depends on the person and the relationship so there's there's boundaries right so
18:24
in some work situations where you can have a close relationship, you could know more about the person, and you can have some of this connection. And I think it depends. I mean, I think if you have a good personable relationship where you can ask questions about somebody's family and their personal activities or whatever, I think that's good. I mean, but there's a point where some questions might not be appropriate. Questions aligned, yeah.
18:52
Yeah, so somebody is going to cross the line and they don't know, then you just need to be able to point out the line, right? Like Renee says, clear as kind, you know, set up that boundary so people know, like, okay, these kinds of things are okay for us to talk about. But those kinds of things I don't want to share with you. And you know, so and I think it depends on the person. Some people would rather be completely professional.
19:15
and not talk about their families, not have the pictures of their husbands and kids in their desk, nothing. Yeah, I mean, I don't know about the pictures. I mean, that might be okay, but maybe they don't want to have the conversations. Maybe they just want to keep it strictly to work. And there's people like, there's nothing wrong with that. And there's some people who want to talk about everything that's going on in the world and they'll have these conversations. So I don't know if there's a right or wrong. And I feel like it depends on the person. Read the room. Yeah.
19:45
You have to, I think, get to know people and see it. I know for me, like when I'm working with somebody, usually we do talk about personal things going on in our lives. And as you're more comfortable, you do that. If you feel that there's a trust, there has to be a trust there where you're willing to do it. But maybe, you know, maybe they're boundary, you know, maybe it could go too far. So you just have to be careful and just, you know, focus on it being professional.
20:13
and share some things because I think that helps the rapport. Right. Because first and foremost, we are there for the professional reasons, of course. So that should always take priority. And then last but not least, what can those in leadership positions do in order to create an environment where employees feel confident enough to speak up and don't feel like if I speak up, they're gonna take me to HR, I'm not gonna get that bonus or that promotion.
20:41
it's going to create a hostile environment. What can they do in order to make everybody comfortable enough to do that? Yeah, I mean, I think that has to happen day one. I think that employer has to create that atmosphere where people feel comfortable. So it doesn't mean they have to have humor or share stories or, you know, whatever it takes. I mean, they have to do something to establish this trust. Maybe they share some things about their own self. Maybe they're vulnerable and talk about
21:10
what it was like for them when they were in your shoes, doing something similar. They have to do something to create like a comfortable environment. They, you know, they should, you should feel comfortable where you don't have to worry that you're going to get in trouble for something that you do. You make a mistake, you're not necessarily going to get written up, you're not going to get fired. So, you know, employers need to be able to do this. And I don't know if there's a set answer, you know, for what they need to do. I think that also is dependent upon the person.
21:39
and how they do the situation. So I feel like they need to be able to have your respect. And I think that they need to be the leader. They need to be the person in the room who you know is making the decisions. So you feel secure with that person too. But at the same time, I think there has to be a way to have this rapport, however they do it. So I mean, I know like sometimes there's some leaders who they're just charismatic.
22:07
you know, and you just like being around them and it doesn't feel stressful and they're funny and they're fun. But you know at the end of the day that you're still going to get the work done. Work done, sorry. You know, there's still that professional relationship but like you feel like ease with them, you know, it doesn't feel uncomfortable. So I feel that's like, you know, personality with what somebody does to, you know, create that situation. I know like
22:34
in the one job I had, I always kept my door open. And I had like this open door philosophy. And my boss always had her door closed. And I did not like that. And nobody liked that. I understand some people have to have their door closed at times, but for me, I just felt like it was symbolic of my door is open, just come in. If I'm not talking with somebody, just come in. Whereas- Close part of your body language, yeah.
23:01
open. It might have been too, but I also told them like, I don't like closed doors, you know, like doors. And I understand there's sometimes you have to have the conversation you want everybody to hear, but when the door is closed all the time, there's not always conversation. So I think, I think like that, that's, that's like gives like a symbol to people, like a, you know, a little bit about your personality. Yeah. And I think you get to know somebody, I think you get to know somebody's temperament and in their personality with how they behave. And I don't think it takes very long to figure that out.
23:32
You get to feel for how they are. You talk to other employees that are in the company. They'll let you know. They'll let you know like, you know, how to behave, you know, around a certain person. Also, if you're willing to listen to those suggestions as well, yeah. It always, yeah. I mean, sometimes people aren't willing to change. I mean, it's good to be actively listening. And sometimes people are willing to change and sometimes they're not. So, yeah, I think.
24:01
Yeah, I think it's a tough job for leaders. I think there's a lot on their plate. There's a lot that they have to do. And yeah, it's not always the easiest job. It's an important job. But I think they also have to have a good support system. I think they have to have employees there who have their back, who do their part to make everything flow. So it's easier for everybody. And make the leader look good. So that way they're not so stressed out and anxious about everything that's going on.
24:31
I think they have such high incidence of their own stress level and just like mental health issues. But that's why they are chosen as well. That's why they're not chosen based on, you are the most intelligent at university, but they're chosen based on their people skills, how they put out fires, damage control, how they correct situations. That's basically the reason why they were put in those positions in the first place.
24:57
Right. There's certain traits that they have, right? There's like trait theory, it was in part of leadership theory. So one of the theories is, is that leaders have certain traits and because of those traits, what's allows them, you know, to be a leader and in a, you know, crazy challenging situation, you know, they're going to stand up and they're going to lead, you know, it's easy to lead. Right. But when it's a tough situation, are they willing to take action?
25:27
or are they gonna fold when something happens? So, you know, there's a lot to it. I don't envy leaders at all, because it's a tough job, you know? Sometimes it's easier just to be the employee, because you don't have to have all that accountability like they do. The higher you go up the ladder, the more the accountability, that's for sure. And the more accountability, not just for yourself, but on behalf of the people that you lead. So it just gets bigger and bigger, this huge responsibility.
25:56
So the moral of the story, learn to communicate, help others understand you and learn to understand them. Teach others about you. I think that's key. So that way people know how best to work with you, share yourself. And so here are my strengths, here are my areas of weakness or challenge, whatever you wanna call it, and be able to reach out and get the help when you need the help. The people need to get to know you.
26:23
and you're the best person to showcase that because you really do. And so you put yourself out there and you explain yourself. And then I think that's- So basically do a SWOT analysis of who you are, not just a resume of your qualifications, but personal SWOT analysis. So you help you understand yourself, you can help others understand you too. Right. Okay, Nelly, thank you so much for being here today. This has been very helpful. Right, sounds good. Well, thanks for having me.
26:51
Yes, and I hope anyone who's listening is going to benefit. Thank you so much. All right, thank you. Have a good rest of the night. You too.