Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. And by the end of this episode, please remember to subscribe, give a rating and a review. My guest today is an old childhood friend from way back when, also hailing from South Africa, but currently, and lecturer of African studies at Howard University. He is a cultural competency specialist, which means how the landscape of communications has changed the way we do business. He is very well versed on global cultural communications and business. And that's what he will be talking to us today amongst other things. And before I go any further, please help me welcome my friend, Hi Phiwokuhle. Hi, Roberta. How are you? It's good to be here with you and your viewers or your listeners. Thank you and welcome to the show. I know we've had so many childhood memories. We've had to recap on before the recording. That was really good. Thank you for being on the show. So tell us a little bit of what you've been up to before we get into the nuketegraities. Of course, I teach African studies. What that is, is a There's a constellation of classes that constitute African studies. So it could either be, you know, African politics, African culture is found in social media and just are found in movies and things like that. It could be African literature and then also African languages. So all those are the wide gamut that constitutes African studies. I'm a specialist in development. So I'm a specialist in China-Africa relations. And my research right now is on this exciting space where African languages are becoming very big things for people from outside Africa to learn. That is interesting. The actual languages? That's correct. African languages. You never thought about this in China. I think there is no less than 10 African languages that are taught in I think no less than three universities that I know of. And in the United States, Zulu, for example, is one of these. Which we both are. Yes, we are. Actually, the genesis for this is basically that countries have basically decided that there are a bunch of good strategic African languages. In other words, these are languages that are important for citizens, whether in the US or in China, that are important for citizens to learn if they want to understand these societies. South of the equator, there is one that is such, Zulu, actually. So in other places, it will be America, Wolof from Nigeria, Hausa, Swahili, of course, etc. Okay. Remember, I used to teach And the idea was that English is the global language of business. And that's why a lot of the countries, especially in Asia and the middle East, got us from English speaking countries to come and teach English so that when they go to business globally, they are able to reach those markets. So are you saying, so now if you want to go to business in Africa, because remember Africa was colonists was both the English and the French. So you either speak French or you speak English, then you're good. That was the idea in the past. That's correct. That is partly true. This idea of you either speak English or you speak French, depending on who colonized your, or you know, Portuguese or Spanish in the case of Equatorial Guinea, some part of Morocco, partly true. We thought that these languages would take that dominant space, but we found out that most African countries actually, the reality is different. The reality is that in the official spaces at school, there's going to be, you know, in Mozambique, there's going to be Portuguese. But most people don't speak Portuguese when they go home. Most people don't enjoy watching anything in Portuguese. They don't enjoy listening to radio. So in other words, the majority of Africans actually, contrary to what we would like to believe, they still prefer their native languages. And so we've found that the staying power of African languages has presented a market from a business standpoint. if you are producing products that cater for languages. And so think about how many people speak Lingala, you know, in the democracy of Papua Congo or Chiluga. And so these are markets. So the Chinese, they don't look at African languages the same way Africans look at them. They look at them as economic domain. Yes, because I just thought Zulu must always be taught for eternity so that my Zulu culture is preserved. Well, I would like to think so too. And that's what I used to think. Then I found out that China in 2013, the first Zulu Chinese dictionary was made. Well, I said, well, what's going on here? Why would the Chinese be interested in Zulu? Well, let me make an example. I know you have nephews and nieces, why young? And they have a stuffed animal and some of these stuffed animals, they talk, you know, Mary had a little lamb or whatever. Yeah. They teach the child. Well, guess what? Remember I said most Africans still prefer African languages. Now think about if you're from Congo and your nephew spoke Lingala and now they buy this stuffed animal that says Mary had a little lamb but in Lingala you see. That's 40 million people buying the stuffed animal. Take it to South Africa Zulu people, that's about 18 million people buying the stuffed animal. So you quickly see the scale and the importance then that the Chinese, at least for now, have placed on African languages as fields of expansion for commercial purposes. How did you get into this? How did you study the relations between China and Africa and all that you've spoken about? As a Sino-Africanist, people who study China, and I'm always interested in the relationship that China has, but many people are studying Africa and China, you know, and so I wanted to find something unique. So I went to China and while I was in China, I then found out that in addition to having African students there, They have a whole bunch of Africans teaching Somali Swahili in Chinese schools. I found that for example, in China, in a place called Che Jiang Normal University, you can even get a master's in African commerce. So let's absorb this, you and your listeners for a minute. Masters in African commerce. I can tell you right now, there are very few universities in Africa where you can get a master's in African commerce. So I saw them that there is a lot of investment that the Chinese are making in these domains of commerce and these are increasingly related to culture. Yeah, think about it. Last time you went to Target, let's even move away from languages and look at other things that are related to culture. Art, last time you went to Target in the summer collection when you come in looking at jewelry, did you see that sometimes there's some African Maasai looking jewelry that you're finding at Target? Well, that doesn't come from Kenya or Tanzania. That's because someone in China saw value in this Maasai culture, not from an overabundance of loving it, but they saw money and they scaled it. They computerized how you produce these beads. And now it's being sold at Target. That's what intrigued me. So it's not even the relation between Africa and then China, the country that's it. It actually becomes a global supply chain. And that's what got me interested in it. Yes. Hmm. Okay. First of all, let's clarify. Africa is a continent with 54 countries. Okay. 54 plus one. 55 countries and many languages, but like in our countries, South Africa, there's nine African indigenous languages. So with this many languages, how will somebody from outside the continent know which ones to prioritize just like China has started? What a great question. it's easier to answer this question than it seems. In each country, there might be a lingua franca, right? But let's again, remember the Africans live in dual worlds. Each African country, there is like the lingua franca. It might be in South Africa English, but we know most South Africans don't speak English outside the office or at home. We don't. And so do your friends from Limpopo who live in Johannesburg. So it's kind of an unofficial lingua franca, but it is the widely spoken language. So what happened? And now this is a sensitive area because we must make sure that we treat all languages equally and so on and so forth. But there is a reality that, you know, if you're in Kinshasa, Lingala is going to predominate then Swahili. That's just the reality. So how you engage with this then is it's a numbers game. Again, remember the Chinese or any outsider's motivation here is to make money and have market share. So you look at the language with the most number of speakers, you look at how much in love or how predominant this language is in practice. So do Zulu people or Zulu speakers consume Zulu things or Zulu based media. And the answer of course is a resounding yes. Boom. You've got a market. Because even back home when we watch TV shows, we watch Zulu news, we watch Zulu shows mostly. That's very true. And in fact, I was speaking about, we've just had Grammys. So of the largest number of South Africans who have won Grammys, most of them have actually won Grammys singing in Zulu and things like that. The culture is very popular. Each country is a culture like that. Kenya do the Maasai culture, for example. Now this doesn't mean again, cause Africans are going to be sensitive here and say, Oh, are you saying, you know, this one, one over the other. But remember, we're talking reality here, dear people, and we're talking business and numbers, and that's how business works. Business looks at numbers, and the numbers point to these languages. When did you decide that you wanted to go and study this further in China? I was doing my research for my PhD, and you know, when you're doing a research, all roads lead to one another. So one road, you go down one path, and it leads to two paths, and you say, okay, I'll leave this path for later when I'm done with what I'm doing. So that's what happened. You know, my first book on China, South Africa relations, which was about the bilateral relations between China and South Africa. It's actually the first book by one person on China, South Africa relations ever written. So that was one. So while I was doing research for that, I got interested in two things. One, the lives of African people or students in China. I found that they've lived very interesting lives and sometimes there's a duality to their existence. That's what my current book is about that I'm writing right now. Secondly, I got interested in African cultures and African languages and why the Chinese are interested in them. And now I came back to the States, of course, where I'm domiciled because America and China are what we call, you know, big power rivals. Whatever China is interested in, America is automatically going to be interested in. So when I came back to America, I found that the Americans are now having this conversation here. We are interested in American students also culturally competent on African cultures. So that's when I knew it was a good area to look at for the foreseeable future. And therefore when you lecture at Howard University on African studies, do you just talk about Africa and the economy and the things you've spoken about or does that include also learning the different languages? Both, because I'm sensitive about one thing that I teach an American audience. Howard is quite an international university, but a majority of my students are American students from all over America. And of course they happen to be African American majority. So it's a very special place in which I enjoy being and there's a perspective about Africa that they would like to have that will help them in whatever field they're in. So in other words, by the time they graduate, whether they're going to law school or they're going to be a nurse, there's a certain competency that they must acquire. that their parents didn't have to acquire. Because their parents lived in a time of a unipolar world where America was the preeminent power in the world. So their parents didn't have to know about Africa, but they do. Their parents didn't have to know about China, they do. When I teach them, then it's not so much about the language when we're dealing with language for its sake, but the special things that are imminent within this language, in African language or any language for that matter. that will help them as citizens of the world in their careers. Right. Why do Zulu people say sawubona, which literally means I see you when they greet you. Right. So what does that have to do with Ubuntu and things like that? So that's what we're talking about when we're talking about cultural competence, because not every student that graduates from an American college will know that. So that makes that student very competitive when they are going to the state department. saying I would like to be a diplomat and represent the US. Right. So this is not even that whole debate of Africa is a little country or that we don't have civilization or that we all live through UNICEF dollars and all the stuff they sometimes show us. But this is more a global economy expansion where your career or your business can take you if you have a true understanding. of what's going on in the continent rather than the stereotypical things that they were fed before. Yes, absolutely. The beauty of the American undergraduate education system, which I want like full disclosure here, I'm a big fan of the American bachelor's degree. It says we don't care that your major is physics. We don't even care you said you are pre-law or whatever. Here are a bunch of classes that are called general education that if you want to graduate from this university, you are going to take these classes. And some of these classes may be dance, or some of these may be art. Some of these classes are going to be African studies class. So in other words, the Americans are saying, look, we don't want one-dimensional doctors, one-dimensional researchers. When you go to law school, you're going to know where Nigeria is and why Nigerians still have their culture stronger than maybe a country that was colonized by the Portuguese. Well, that's because there are different colonization styles and the Portuguese kind of emphasized on stripping the whole culture in a society, then the British who were indirect and they delight touch and that basically saved a whole bunch of cultures. This blind hand of fate saved a whole bunch of cultures that are going to be colonized by the British. So that may look like it's useless, but to a student who wants to be competitive in this world, it's not because it makes them stand out when they're like doing an interview for law school. Be a more diverse global thinker. Now let's talk about the word Ubuntu, which is the very foundation of our Zulu culture. I have found that in my global travels, that word is actually quite popular. There was an NBA ad somebody showed me the other day where they were talking about Ubuntu. I wasn't even sure how much or how fully they understand how deep that word is. Would you like to talk to us about that? Sure. But I'm also reticent like you understandably so. We hear so many different interpretations of this work and like many great principles, karma or yin or yang that are imminent in different cultures, right? They are open to a very wide latitude when it comes to interpretation. So I try as a professor, I've learned this from just dealing with undergraduate students. They will think what they think and they have different perspectives. You want to catch them where you find them. I try to then leave them to interpret this word and just give them enough for them to have a good start. Right? So I don't try to own this word for the students or anyone I meet. Although the word, I think it's not even a name of a software, someone named it. Yes. I think it's a browser. I'm against this one, but I won't blame the people because you would never name it after maybe like a French word because the French government will sue you. So it shows that African countries are still behind. claiming their cultures and making sure that they take care of these cultures, you know? But anyway, Ubuntu, again, is this idea that human-ness, there's this idea that to being a human being, there are certain qualities that you must embody that then make you a core human, a complete human, so to speak, however imperfect you may be. So then one of them then is going to be that this idea that Ubuntu, Abantu, a person is a person because of other people. Now I stopped there and let people think, whatever they want. Interpret it yourself. Yeah. Because I deal with so many diverse students and I'm in a diverse world and people have different needs when they're looking at principles. So you must be able to give them enough to give them a jumpstart and then they can take it where they would like to suit their subjective needs. I love that. And the proverb, umudu nga bandu. It also means like how I say I am because you are. Our humanness is what connects us. I'm not separated from you. Yes. And so my existence is here because of your existence, right? I hurt you. I'm hurting myself. If I'm doing something wonderful for you, I'm doing it to my vote. We are fully connected. Absolutely. Yeah. That's the very basis and foundation of our Zulu culture. And therefore not just the language, but understanding that if you want to do business in the Zulu community. That would be one of the very things you should take into account. Now, the beauty of studying a language is that you cannot learn Zulu without learning about Ubuntu, you see. Two languages I was not born with. I speak French quite well. I spent some time in France. Also I speak Shona. I stayed in Zimbabwe. I couldn't have learned Shona without understanding the essence of Zimbabwean life and culture and past. Same with French. So that is why then I would say to the bigger point of our conversation that the reason African languages have become important is that Africa has become important in the world of doing business and is going to become more important. And the reason Africa has become important, it has become important to China and China is a major player in this world. So whatever China is interested in, we are, for whatever reason, are also interested in the Western world. So we are actually speaking about connection, I guess. We are connected in a bigger way. That is true. But then let's talk about the flip side of this. So we're about to go controversial a little bit. There are some who say that the way China is doing this, they are becoming the second colonizers. What are your thoughts on that? Oh, great. Well, I'm a professor again, so maybe you won't get what you want. I have some points of thought. So... When China was becoming a country in 1949, in 1954, five years after they became free, they started an Institute for African Studies because they were worried that they don't know much about Africa. No sooner had they done that because the world at that time until the 1970s only recognized the island that we know as Taiwan as China, ROC. So to China's existence as a persona grata as a country in the world. relied from Africa from the beginning of its existence as a country, the people's Republic of China. It was because of African countries, a majority of African countries voting in the United Nations to allow China to come back into the United Nations. It was because of this vote, then the China we know today, Beijing, is considered China. So until the 1970s, as more African countries became more independent, China got more votes. What does it have to do with us and today? China... was able to look at Africa's importance from the beginning of time when countries were becoming independent. So China has never lost the eye on the ball on the importance of Africa. Now, for selfish reasons, like all countries do things for selfish reasons. So some of these things then that later China is doing now cause it needs resources and things like that. We of course associate them with colonialism because it might involve some deals that the Africans get a short end of the stick of. But I'm also very cautious then when I discuss this, that's why I've said, I mentioned this historical part to say, well, China has kind of built a solid foundation of friendship with the Africans, which they now use to justify their existence and the business they do. But on the other hand, African countries still have a big competency gap when they negotiate with China. So this puts them at a disadvantage by default. Between these two things, you have a problem. that we need to solve. And I don't know who needs to solve it. So I'm not sure if that helps you, but I just don't think China is another colonizer. But there are things that are taking place that are reminiscent of colonialism. So it's a mixture. It depends on what's going on in each particular country in Africa. Africa has so many countries, so we don't know. So that short end of the stick, I think, is the one thing that a lot of us have a problem with. So you mentioned two things, language and culture. First of all, with language, do we get the short end of the stick? If we're an African country and we have a deal with China, is it because there was a lack of understanding from our side in the Chinese contract? We are not fluent in Mandarin. What do you think causes that? This is a great point. I'm very happy you mentioned this because Chinese state craft, again, there is such a thing called state craft. If your viewers don't believe them, there is something called state craft. then we're already having a different conversation because if you just think countries behave like human beings, you won't understand what we're going to talk about. Because countries are not your grandma. Countries have what we call interests and these interests are permanent and they change by changing circumstances, but they are permanent in that each country tries to get the most with the least. So this is where then the Africans fail to understand China because China, when it comes to negotiate a deal, it's bringing the best. person it can find in China who's a negotiator. So if they're trying to negotiate a deal on a railway line, they're not gonna bring someone who used to negotiate deals on just real estate. They're going to bring a railway line specialist who can negotiate by the mile and knows landscape, knows about building tunnels, knows why a tunnel is extra, why it's better to build around the river than around a dam. Now take that picture of competency and turn to the African counterpart country. We don't need to be overly pessimistic to know that in some African countries, we still struggle to find specialists in basic things. Now, what does this have to do with language? Again, remember statecraft. So China is going to insist, well, we need these negotiations not only to be in Chinese, but we would like the contract to be in Chinese. So if a country like Zambia or Malawi, I'm sorry to mention names, I'm just using an examples here. So if a country comes with just someone, they say, well, They said they speak Chinese, but they don't speak best Chinese for contracts. They speak Chinese profanetarily, or they went to China for like four years. They came back saying they speak Chinese, but they don't know this type of thing. Well, that person is going to be there and they're going to miss a few things like all contracts you write them to benefit yourself. So in other words, then what may look like it's the Chinese screwing someone over is actually just statecraft, everyday statecraft, everyday fine print. everyday contractual stuff, but because the Africans were incompetent in their Chinese, or even just in contractual stuff, they failed to red flag that and the Chinese go home smiling. So this is why I like because I like holding Africans accountable to say well should Africans improve on being competent and meritocracy and the answer is a resounding yes. Here's the thing that's common sense you know why even when you speak English. You're not going to negotiate a legal contract if you are just a basic English speaker. You need to be well versed in legalities. You know how they phrase things inter alia bona fide and they use those Latin words in between the in, but not including that also that you cannot just be an English speaker to negotiate. That's just common sense. You are very optimistic, Sister Roberta, and I love you for that. You're saying that's just common sense. Well, it is, but I'm sorry. That's just how it cookie crumbles in some of these places where the person who's going to negotiate a deal is going to be like the child of a minister who has no business like negotiating for like a fruit stand but they are connected to someone. So that is why the biggest fear in China being a second colonizer that we must kind of watch for is not in China or Chinese behavior. It's in African competency. Yes. So we are not victims of this. I don't think so. I don't think so because if it's not China, some people may say these are the deals that Africa has always been screwed over when it comes to deals. It's just that we're complaining now because it's the Chinese. If we looked at some of the deals African countries signed, for example, in 1990s with the IMF during structural adjustment, we would pass out, right? Isn't that the reason we have these ongoing never-ending loans that no African country can pay back? Well, most of them, apparently. cannot pay back to the IMF. Is that the deal dynamic we're talking about here? Exactly, absolutely. And some people have actually said that we are just talking about these things now, deals, these airports and these things that go south. In other words, some people have of the opinion that in the rivalry between the Western world and China, it's going to be spillover of course in the narrative domain. And part of this then is just a narrative rivalry that, oh look, China is doing this as opposed to these players. But what I don't like with this narrative is that it leaves African capability without addressing it. And that's the biggest source of solutions. African capability in all these problems. And it starts with a typical African country sending its best and brightest, not the most connected to China for like 10 years to study the best Chinese. Which exists in hundreds of millions. We exist. So many competent Africans, it exists. We've got the brain power, we've got the skills, we've got all of this. So the problem is the nepotism in politics because that's where usually the deals get negotiated, unfortunately. It is, I think so. And remember, maybe that's where we can fault China, but I don't, because I look at it from an African perspective. So in other words, if there's things you can fix at home so that you don't get robbed, you should fix those things first. And those are usually the easiest. So for example, the Chinese love it when Africans are incompetent. Cause if you think about sending the incompetent person, not the millions who are competent to exist and ignored because they're not connected to someone. Cause from a strategic perspective and statecraft perspective, that means I'm going to get the best deal. Then my screw over the country, but the particular minister and remember in democracy, you won't be there in five years to clean up. So your mess is going to be cleaned up by someone else. there are a bunch of incentives for all these things to go wrong that don't have anything to do with Chinese behavior, right? Because Chinese behavior is going to be quite predictable. Yeah, indeed, African countries maybe, they can have a select committee of experts that are experts on China so that a country like Burundi doesn't have to kind of recreate the wheel in having its own people who study Chinese, its own people who study Chinese contractual stuff. 20 best French speaking, English speaking, Portuguese speaking, but also Chinese scholars of Africa. So that these people can be deployed in any country and advise during the negotiations. You see, now that is a solution that the Africans would have if they listen to people like you and I, but we would need the Africans first to listen to experts. So again, this is an African problem, not a Chinese problem because the Chinese listen to their experts. Anyone listening who's probably African might think the two of us are self-hating. We are not patriotic. As proud as we are to be Zulus with now that we live in the states, we are not patriotic. What would you say to that person based on what we've said if that's what they are thinking right now? Awesome two things one. I would add another word to help them out to our african pessimists. I think there's another word No, no, I would say I guess in the drc for example It's a country with a huge potential, but this potential every year, it's equivalent. I'm going to, since we're in the U S we're going to use the American example, like interstates, think about like I 95 and I 15, what they mean to the American economy. When you see I 70, I 80, and what these roads, if any of these roads is made of dust or dirt, which means when it rains or snows, they're basically nonexistent. the American economy does not work. Now, Congo is a country that is a vast country. I'm just using Congo because it's big. It has interstates like roads. In other words, these spine roads that are important, but these roads, when it rains, they're impossible. You can just go Google Congo roads and you'll see what I'm talking about. If wanting these roads to be built in the most efficient and the quickest way so Congo thrives, we want the Africans to help the Africans deal with any problem that causes these roads to not be built. If that's Afro pessimism, then I guess it's not so bad because we're interested here, I would say you and I, in seeing Africa rise, like kind of like South Korea, and take its rightful place in our lifetime though. Like, and that's the point. We don't want our children to be talking about how we didn't do anything. So in other words, my- And we have the resources, the skills, the competency, all of that. Absolutely, absolutely. And the skills. Yeah, you said it. So yeah, we're not being Afro pessimists. I'll tell that person, we are impatient for change. And we know how quickly change can take place in the current environment we're living in. And we know the price. If Africa doesn't develop its infrastructure, the price to be paid is huge. And so we are justified in these feelings of being very impatient with African incompetence. Yeah. But shouldn't we be because we know it exists, they're just picking the ones that are not fit for those shoes? Indeed. I know. And they have a good point. They'll say, well, Africa is diverse, not all countries, you know, to show, but most African countries, this is a fact, still have huge competency gaps. Then I know, another one will come and say, or you have been mean on Africa, competency and corruption is everywhere. Yes. But in competence in a country like Turkey, incompetence in Brazil, they may be incompetent and they might be corrupting, but they still have interstate. That's what I'm talking about. They don't have that interstate be made of dirt, you see, when they have money to build interstates. So we start from a humble perspective of saying, okay, we just want this, this and that. Let the girl child go to school without walking more than five miles, you know, stuff like that. What do they do with this trillions every year of text collected? Yeah. In South Africa, for example, to be fair, because South Africa has huge problems, no single child should be crossing a river and holding their skirt or pants up in their waist so they can cross a river to go to class. To get to school. Yeah, you see? So a bridge must be built. Because we have so much money to. Exactly. So if that means you are Afro-pessimist by wanting that to be built yesterday, I'm quite happy actually, to make another one to be called, because the heart is in the right place. And when you've traveled and seen how the other world can get things done with little resources, you are actually justified in being a bit disturbed that some things still exist. Especially when we go around bragging, I don't know if you brag like me, but we're like, Oh, we're the biggest gold producers in the world. And we brag about all the stuff that we have, but we do nothing about it. To help South Africans. What is the point? There you go. Yes. But on an optimistic note, it's good that people like this exist who may seem like party poopers, but most societies where people are dissatisfied with how things are going, it's actually a good sign. It means progress will take place because if you are always satisfied and things are not going right and you just say, well, it could be worse. You know what that means? It means corruption and the state of affairs is ossified and it is ossified and you now take it as a normalcy, which is unacceptable. Right? There's no way anyone should think it's normal for a girl child to not be in a classroom like today, right? If you think it's normal, then there's a huge problem. So there is a constellation of these values, I'll call them, that are related to development and progress that all Africans should just be against automatically. Like any road, there is a major road in any country that doesn't have tar. every African should revolt against that, just a simple thing. Because that's the economic driver. Let's go back to the term statecraft. So in talking about this, us being Africans and with the rest of the globe, what can we do to show our loyalty and patriotism in a way that progresses our countries and moves them forward? Well, I think what you're doing already is very good, right? So you... a very successful person. You don't actually have to be doing this podcast. You don't have to be a thought leader, but you've chosen to do it and you've chosen to be a thought leader. You could just be living your nice American suburban life and then your problems will be just behind you and then that's it. But you didn't. So you saw that there's a problem that still exists over there. You got tired of it. And so you started a conversation, which I'm happy to be part of. For one of you. the, I would say thousands on social media. So in other words, you were in good company. Okay. When good company, we have a lot of companions. So these people, they are impatient. I think impatience is important because impatience basically defeats a lot of indifference amongst the population. And then people are able to say, well, change is possible in five years and why shouldn't we have it? Yeah. So I think that's one thing people can do. people can be involved in these diasporic communities. And the nice thing with social media is that these communities no longer need to be physical. So if someone does something that is inappropriate, for example, like a Chinese business person is discriminating against some Kenyans in a restaurant and telling Kenyans you can't enter this place. Well, thanks to an African diaspora that is awake on these matters that is online, we can have an immediate apology and reaction to the situation. from the Chinese authorities. So without this body of people that are interested in how things turn out back in Africa, we wouldn't have as much progress in this arena as we've had. What's the point then? Well, we need to just escalate it and scale it to these other arenas like infrastructure. Why doesn't country A or country B still have its major roads be fully tarred, right? Countries that starts with a G, that's in West Africa. It has one of the largest exporters of bauxite, which is needed for very important things. So this country has what we call an absolute advantage or competitive advantage, some might say in a very important resource. So there is no way this country should not have its tarred roads. I like roads because roads determine everything. Economic movement, excess. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. In South Africa, I would say the South Africans should be very unhappy that South Africa does not have a bullet train from Johannesburg to Durban because the country can afford it. Even the Haltreinna Park was built for the World Cup, right? From Joburg to the airport? Right. Yeah, I think it was and it's great, but it's very elitist and it's a good thing. I like it a lot. But my point is Morocco is having fast trains, Algeria, Egypt. So South Africa is actually being left behind in this idea of infrastructure. And much of the infrastructure that the country has relied on is actually old infrastructure from the apartheid times. And so my point then is that in every African country, there is a room for imagination and seeing the possibilities and then making it happen. And so we remain important to calling out these situations because some South Africans may say, well, the trains we have now are fine. But no, I don't think so. I don't think they believe that either. Especially like you said, it was mostly infrastructure from apartheid. So in the last 28 years with all that fiscals and tax money being collected every year, you ask yourself, so what are they doing? That's why we are starting to sound impatient. And we should be. Of course, people like yourself also, because you are humble and you have Ubuntu, there's Ubuntu for your people. Because you're humble and Ubuntu, you won't say that. But I'll say for you, you have a platform. and you have what we call cash. So you have a social capital that you've accumulated, that can get things done. Most people don't. So there are many people on the continent that don't have the social capital that it takes to get certain things done. So that is why then, as a matter of social responsibility even, that people like yourself who have the social capital and the reach must always be dissatisfied with certain things and they must always be impatient. because impatience leads to material change for another person. Which is what we want to see in our lifetime. As we said, I don't want to wait for like my children to ever pull a train like in South Africa. Like, I'm sorry. Like my niece is three. I wanted to grow up in a much better country. And we know it can be done. That's what the Algerian said. So I don't think so. It can't be done. We have the resources. We have everything. No excuses whatsoever. No. My childhood friend, last words of wisdom. The world is changing. The world is changing fast. Most changes that are important in the world that are not of our making. We're living in a time, whether you believe it's the end of it or the beginning or the middle of it, we certainly are living in a time of a transition from a unipolar to a multipolar world. So in other words, countries that were here to not having much preeminence are. And in this world, domains that we never thought were part of statecraft, were things to worry about. have now become such things like African culture, African languages, and these domains, some of these rivalries, these what we call big power rivalries, are going to take place or are taking place in these domains of culture and languages, et cetera. And Africa is increasing the stage upon which these rivalries are taking place. Now, on a positive note, these rivalries, this renewed interest is actually fertile ground for much growth in whatever you're interested in. that you link to African languages or African culture. So much of the economic growth in Africa is gonna come from this. Now, unfortunately, the Africans themselves, well, African leaders are not awake or alive to this reality that they've been catapulted to like a new planet when it comes to their own languages and cultures. And so if you are a person here who's interested, you know, you're an innovator. We'll link it to African cultures and African languages, and you'll be able to find a new area of growth that some people outside Africa have found as well. Words of wisdom from Phiwokuhle Mnyandu, Ph.D., the lecturer of African studies at Howard University and a cultural competency specialist. Thank you so much for spending your time with us today. I really appreciate you being here. Thanks for inviting me. It's just nice to see you and what you have become my big childhood friend. Actually, you're not my childhood friend, you're my childhood sister. Yeah, you're the same age as my brother who's five years younger than me. Yeah, you're my childhood sister, you know. I remember you chasing us around and we were being bad. I did my job, I guess. Yeah, you did. You tried. Yeah, and before you go, would you like anybody to reach you and where? You can find me at Dr. Mnyandu on Instagram. That's where I am. Dr. Mnyandu on Twitter. That's where I am. All right, I will write those on the show notes. Dr. Phiwokuhle Mnyandu, or as I call him Phiwo, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, have a great one. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review, and we'll be with you next time.