Speaking and Communicating Podcast

Welcome back to the Speaking and Communicating podcast. I am your host Roberta. If you are looking to improve your communication skills, both professionally and personally, this is the podcast you should be tuning into. By the end of this episode, please remember to subscribe, give a rating and a review. And as you know, I am an avid fan of the Toastmasters organization since I became a member a few years ago.
00:27
My guest today, who's also a Toastmaster, she is a communication skills trainer, a TEDx speaker and coach, and she's the founder of SkillsMe Academy, which is a virtual school for developing communication skills. Talk about the most fitting guest for this podcast. Before I go any further, please help me welcome Diana Robertson. Hi, Diana.
00:57
Welcome to the show. I'm so excited that you're here today. Likewise. So tell us a little bit about yourself before we get to the work part. I think you've done a perfect introduction there. Thank you for saying that. Founder of SkillsMe Academy. Recently did the TEDx feed. Also volunteer as a TEDx coach every now and then when we improve people's communication skills.
01:25
I have a finance degree, which I never used in my life. I used to work as a business development manager at one company in Russia, because I'm half Russian, half Arab, but I live in the UK. But yeah, that kind of sums it up together with your introduction. So you studied finance. It's funny. I have a friend that I met in South Korea when I was teaching English there. He studied finance. He was from the UK as well.
01:49
He never used it. He just went straight up and taught English. He said, I love my life. I wouldn't imagine working at a bank in the UK. It can be a challenge. Yes. I tried a little bit, but it wasn't my thing at all. Right. So like I said earlier, we are fellow Toastmasters. When did you become a member of Toastmasters? So that was April 2014. I feel old.
02:16
And when I came in there, I was in a desperate need to improve my public speaking skills, because prior to that, I had one of the most awful public speaking experiences ever. I remember I came to the room, there were 200 people, I even had a script with me that I was allowed to read from.
02:42
because I was so, so nervous. My hands were shaking so, so badly. When I took the script, I could not read it because my hands were shaking so badly. So it was an absolutely awful experience. And that made me think that, my goodness, Diana, I have to work on this. And this kind of resulted later on in me joining Toastmasters at the time. So I was absolutely awful. I couldn't look at the...
03:11
people's eyes when I presented, I only looked at my slides. I couldn't remember my script. Everything was shaking my face. We used to turn red. Yeah. So that was a very fun part of my life. Oh, wow. You know, those stories are very common, but first question, what were you presenting? What were you talking about? Financial fraud. Oh, wait, you were still in finance. Yeah. It was, it was at my university actually.
03:38
Oh, a university. And it was the first presentation they asked to make in front of everyone. And well, it didn't go so well. Which brings up the interesting question because we usually mention how universities will teach you the technical skill, but they don't include the communication aspect. So they asked you to present, but nobody had taught you how to present on financial projects. Nope. In fact, by giving this presentation, the idea was that they will teach me.
04:05
how to speak in front of the public, even though they never taught me, they're just like, okay, like a tick in the syllabus, like, oh, okay. We taught them how to speak in front of the public when in fact they didn't. Interesting. When you decided you're not gonna work in finance, how did you get started on the SkillsMe Academy being an entrepreneur? Roberte, ever since I was a child, I was always wanting to become a business woman.
04:33
which probably is because of my dad, because he used to be a successful entrepreneur. So I thought, okay, I'll be just like him. In fact, I'll tell you even more. He kept on telling me since my young age that Diana, you should be working for yourself. That's the only way to go. You're going to love this. And that's the fastest route to success. I guarantee you, especially financial success. So I listened to him most of my life.
05:01
And then I remember when I turned 18, so the age when I could finally incorporate the company, I went to him and I was like that I am ready. I would like to open my own company now. To which he said, why? I'm like, what do you mean? Why? I mean, because you always said that's the following your advice. He's like, darling, but.
05:29
This is not for everyone. I'm like, well, but this is for you. I'm sure it is for me as well. He's like, no, Diana, you don't understand. You don't have the personality for it. In order to own a company, in order to become an entrepreneur, you need to be, first of all, a good leader. And in order to become a good leader, you need to have amazing communication skills. You need to be strong. You need to be tough.
05:57
I need to be charismatic, outgoing, and you're none of these things. You're very soft. You're very kind. It's nice, but those are not the quality of a successful leader. Then he was like, Oh, actually any good entrepreneur is also a good investor. And as a good investor, you need to have a great return on your investment. And I have the perfect business opportunity for you. Why don't you find a rich husband?
06:26
And that will become your best return on investment ever. Spoken like a typical dad. Yes, you know, first I do like that answer, but because I really looked up to him, that left a really deep imprint on me in a sense that, well, if he's saying I can't do it and he should know because he's successful in this.
06:52
then maybe he's right and maybe indeed I will never be a good leader. And because of that Roberta, I stopped looking for leadership opportunities. And if anybody ever approached me with organizing something or leading something, I would just always say, no, no, no, just find somebody else. I'm definitely not the right person for it. But later when I was working for one company, there was this project that they were launching.
07:21
And they were looking for a leader for that project. And they came to me and they were like, Dana, you have to lead this project. I'm like, no, they don't. But they were like, no, actually, you don't get it. We don't have anybody else. There is only you and you who could lead this project and nobody else. This is yours. So we don't take no for an answer. And guess what? Also your target is to make sure that this project this year is at least two times more successful than last year.
07:51
So you have to make this happen. I have to make this happen. I absolutely have to make this happen. That was terrifying. And I tried really hard. I did my best. I worked really hard. Eventually what happened is that this project has launched and the result was that it was not two times. It was several times more successful than last year. Great job.
08:17
Thank you very much. But the thing is in that moment, I didn't attribute any of the success to me or my leadership style. What I thought, okay, well, I had a very strong team and I honestly did have a very strong, very good team, but then just in case, just to see how I could potentially improve as a leader later on, I decided to ask them for feedback. And what I did is I asked them in person, but I also gave them anonymous.
08:45
forms to fill because you know how some people struggle. Yes, absolutely. No one offends you. You're their boss. So I sent those out and I talked in person as well. And Roberta, the result was absolutely surprising because every single one said that they enjoyed having me as their leader, but also the reasons they specified were nothing.
09:12
Like the reasons my dad was talking about the qualities of a great leader to be strong, to be outgoing, etc. The qualities they were mentioning were that I don't micromanage. They love that. I was very supportive. They love that. Motivating, kind, encouraging and things like that. So kind of the opposite skills my father initially was talking about. Which he thought you needed. All of these things you just listed, motivating and kind.
09:42
not micromanaging people, trusting that they will do what they're supposed to, is what we always emphasize as leadership skills, you know, leadership development, coaching, exactly what they mentioned. You heard it from the horse's mouth. Yeah, no, absolutely. And that was kind of a really kind of mind opener for me, because of how important those skills were, and how not important was the fact that I didn't have the best communication skills.
10:11
At that point, I wasn't a good public speaker at all, or any type of speaker in general. Well, there were a lot of things that weren't there for me. And yet it didn't seem to be so important. And that kind of gave me the motivation and the encouragement to maybe do something else later on in my life. And that kind of opened my mind to taking more leadership roles, which I started doing after that actively.
10:38
and later on establish several businesses after that. You know, one thing also about that experience was we always talk about self-awareness for leaders. You going and actively looking for feedback from your team, it increased the level of self-awareness of how you were doing. I think that is a very great tip, that you actually ask your team for feedback.
11:02
And even anonymously, like you said, because that's when they're going to be honest, when they know their bonuses and their jobs feel safe. You don't know who said what. I think that was amazing of you to do that, especially at such a young age, because you didn't have experience. That's why you didn't want to take the position in the first place. Yeah. Well, didn't have experience and didn't think that I have the potential to be anything like a leader. So yeah, no, thank you very much.
11:27
I totally agree with you in general. I mean, when it comes to developing any soft skills, just from my experience, so working with my clients and my company, I think it's super important to ask that feedback all the time because you might be doing your best, but then if you make a mistake, you might not even know that you made a mistake unless you ask.
11:49
that feedback from people. So in a way, because we're no longer at schools, we're no longer at university where they just, you know, put a grade and say, okay, improving this. In a way, it's the feedback that you get from people is the only way for you to improve anything. And I think that's super, super important for developing any soft skills in general. This could be leadership, public speaking, communication skills or anything, but yeah, well done for bringing that up. I think that's super important. Actually, well done for bringing up the part about mistakes.
12:17
We always say that leaders need to let go of this idea that they need to appear perfect, and that they have all this stuff together, thinking that that's what gains respect from your subordinates. That's not what this is about, no? Yeah, that's true. That it's okay for you to say, yes, I'm a leader, yes, I'm put in this position, but I'm still human. And the feedback is okay. Because we're all in this together.
12:47
boss versus employees type of situation. We are all in a team together and working for the common good. Now you said this also applies to public speaking. How did you even think about going on a path that led you to be a communications coach? The way that happened is fundamentally, it was this time when I was requested.
13:12
How did you get started on this path leading to you being a communications coach? Right, right. As mentioned earlier, I always had this little dream of becoming a business woman, even though, well, I had some challenges in the way. And one of the first businesses I started was in food delivery. And we're talking the times when it wasn't a normal thing to just open the app and order something. We're talking about the times when people still used to call.
13:42
And most restaurants didn't deliver at all. You had to go there and pick up the things. And yet the food delivery industry was really booming and started to grow really well in the Western countries, but not yet in Russia, which is a bit behind the Western world. So when I realized that, when I looked at all the numbers, as I was taught during my finance degree, I realized that, oh my God, there is an amazing opportunity there. And it would be,
14:12
horrible if I miss it. So what I did is I left the UK, I went back to Russia and started this company, which was about food delivery. Initially, I was super excited about it, but the more I did it, the more I felt demotivated to do it. And every time I would wake up in the morning, I would not want to do the work, which made no sense to me because, hey,
14:41
It's something that could potentially bring me a lot of money. I always wanted to become a business woman. What's the problem? So you saw the opportunity. Why would you feel demotivated? I know. Right. And later several things happened and that company did not work out. I won't bore you with details, but this left me with a sense of lack of accomplishment in a sense and a sense of wonder, okay, so if I didn't enjoy that so much.
15:10
What is it that I should be doing in my life in general? And this is the time when I started working for other firms and just trying to find myself and trying to find the things that I'm interested in. Simultaneously, the thing that was happening is that I started to go to Toastmasters, among other things, also to various other courses on communication skills.
15:35
and things like drama, improv, debate clubs and things like that, just to improve those communication skills to me, because I felt the needs to improve them. I felt that I liked them. And when I was going to all those places, I started to feel the difference they were making to the way I communicated with people on a daily basis or in business. And later something that I did not expect happened. People.
16:03
In those places I went to such as Toastmasters clubs and other places, students started to come to me, asking me for advice and asking me to help them do this and that and that. So they come to ask you for help for improving their communication skills when they were to improv and drama and tostmasters. Wow! So that says a lot about you. Thank you.
16:29
But for me, just so you know, it used to be super, super tough because the reason I went there is because in the past, I used to be the type of person who would always be very quiet, very shy. For example, if we take my school years, I would be the person who would never raise her hand to answer the question in front of the class just because I was terrified of what other people would think about me. So that should give you an understanding of how good, good in verticomus.
16:58
of a public speaker I was. So in the past, I used to be absolutely terrible. And hence the needs to improve those communication skills. And hence the surprise when those people started to come to me to help them become better. Once I started doing that, I started coaching them just for free, just because, well, they asked for help. Why not? And it's not my... Of course, yes. A lot of us start for free. Yes. Exactly.
17:23
So I started to help one person, another person, third person. And I started to see the difference that coaching did to them. It's things like some people start winning public speaking competitions. Other people just start feeling much more confident in their life and their work. And they come to me with all this excited about all those things that happen in their lives, thanks to my help. And when I started to see that, I realized that this type of work.
17:53
I'm happy to do even for free. If that makes sense. And here it's not even my business. The joy that it brings you to see the transformation, the change in them is what got you excited. Noddy, like you said, you were happy to do it for free because it just brought you that much joy.
18:12
Absolutely, absolutely. And that was the eye opener for me. Like, oh, maybe I shouldn't be looking at finer stuff so much. Maybe I should start with things that I actually enjoy doing. Right. And then maybe the money will come hopefully later on. And that's part of the reason I opened SkillsMe Academy. And the idea behind it always was that it's a place where you can learn different communication skills. So for example, right now we offer two, we offer storytelling and
18:42
impromptu speaking, so speaking on the spot. Right. But the idea is to add more because when you're as a person, I suppose I wanted to solve my own problem when I was looking for ways to become better, it was hard for me to find things. That's why I had to join the drama club, even though I don't think you need the drama club to learn good communication skills, there should be more tailored options, let's say that's one of the reasons the skills made was established. That is amazing. Actually speaking of improv, I had a guest recently.
19:12
who said he would recommend it for most people. I said oh yeah because you learn to think on your feet which is impromptu speaking but he also said in addition to that you learn to trust yourself. It increases the confidence level the fact that wait a minute say something in relation to what this person just said.
19:33
You recommended improv. So I'm so amazed that you mentioned improv as well as one of the tools that you used in order to get your public speaking going. Well, not just public speaking, speaking in general, I would say. You're absolutely right. Yeah. So in skills meet Academy, do you have a target group, a target age or are these communication skills that you focus on for any age group? They are open for anybody, but in general.
20:01
People who join us are normally, normally between 20 and 40 normally. And we kind of have two main groups, I would say young professionals. So people who want to have some sort of career growth or maybe people who have just gotten a new position, they don't have the skills or social skills for it. So they come to us, but also we have the second group, which is university students, interestingly, who feel that they lack those skills in general, but they want them so that they can find a good job.
20:31
So I would say those are two categories of people come to us. Let's first address the latter group, the university students. I've had guests who say they're in HR, so they're in interview panels. They say there's nothing more heartbreaking than seeing this brilliant Harvard graduate not be able to speak through their resume during the interview. And that's why they don't get the job. Yeah. It's a big problem, Roberta. It's very, very common. Big problem.
21:00
In fact, which I have experienced myself. Please share, yes. I was a kind of A-star student. I was always the type of person who would be like the top of the class, top of the university and things like that. And I thought, well, the point of this all is to, you know, study hard, be at the top and then that way I'll get the best job out there. That's what we were all sold. Yes. Right? That's what we were sold. Exactly.
21:25
But then what started to happen is that, you know, how these days companies have this crazy amounts of levels for getting into the company, especially for students for the new entries. We're talking about maybe seven levels, sometimes eight levels recruitment passing with the CV stage, then ending with things like psychometric tests and things like the application process. At the end, normally there would always be this interview stage normally with the manager of that department or, and with an HR, so basically that way.
21:55
They try to reduce people as much as possible and only let's say chat to the best. Well, Roberta, I normally got to that top thing as like one of the best, but every single time I would get to that stage, something would go wrong. And you know, that experience you mentioned that other guests has shared with you. That's exactly the thing that would happen to me because I would get super nervous. I would get super scared. They will ask me, okay. So why should we?
22:24
hire you as an experienced girl. There is like often this man, you know, sitting like this, asking, why should he hire me? I was feeling, it felt really intimidating. It felt really scary. And even though I know that I am good and perfect for the job, I won't be able to show it because I would be just so nervous and so scared.
22:50
Basically, because I don't have the skill of speaking under pressure. It's not something I normally do, which by the way, the skill you get at bi-learning public speaking, you learn how to speak under pressure. Yes. Well, I simply didn't have that. Nobody taught me that except for that one experience at university where I had to speak in front of 200 people, but then nobody gave me feedback on my... Even though you were shaking, nobody gave you any tips on how to do better. No, no, it was just said next.
23:17
the other person. I mean, that's all they cared about. And I'm not saying that my university is bad or anything, but it's just not in the curriculum. It's not their fault. It's not. Absolutely. I mean, it just applies to, I would say the university teaching in general, not just my university, but schools and universities around the world. They focus so much on the hard skills and on the knowledge and so little.
23:45
on the soft skills, let's say. The soft skills, yeah. And as a result of that, it feels like, okay, only this matters, this part. And then people seem to just split into two groups. Some of them have those natural abilities to speak well. You know how at school you might notice that a teacher asks somebody a question and then this person might not be an excellent student, but they find a way to quickly find the right words or more or less answer the question. And you look at them like,
24:15
my goodness, they have a talent of talking and they'll still get an okay grade. And then you ask an Excel student something and that Excel student might just go, uh, I don't know, even if they know the answer. They get zero out of 10 for the question. The one who could mumble something would at least get a five out of 10, even though it's not the perfect answer, but they at least they could speak. That's a very good point because I remember back in school.
24:44
Even when you write essays, you know, essay questions, there are kids who think, I can't think of anything, skip the question. So they get zero for that particular question. But those who just mumble something, even if it's not exactly relevant to the question or they answer what it should be, they won't get some marks for even saying something. I think that's a key thing they should have highlighted at least. Absolutely. And that taps into the natural abilities. So people think that people are born with, which okay, we're all born different.
25:13
But then that doesn't cover the really key part, the fact that any skill can be developed. And the best time to develop it is actually at school or at university while you still have the time. And also, I mean, you're much more able to learn things faster. And that's unfortunately, in my opinion, what's dragging, I would say the whole system a bit behind, at least give people the compulsory.
25:39
some sort of communication skills class or public speaking. Yeah, is an additional, yeah. And then the leadership aspect, remember you said people get promoted and then leadership positions but they don't know how to manage people. What is a tip that you can give to those who are in these positions? Because usually people get promoted not because they speak well or can manage teams because they're very good at their technical skills.
26:04
What is one thing you can say to them? Here's what I recommend in order for you to help you. Now that you're in this, I've been promoted, I lead 10 people. What am I going to do now? Well, okay, this is my personal suggestion. Treat it as a learning experience. Just like you learned some other skills, for example, some hard skills, you can also learn leadership, you can learn how to be a good leader.
26:32
You don't need to be like, Oh my God, I don't know what to do. You can put yourself in this learning mindset where you observe what you do and you see what are the results of what you do. So for example, you talk to your team member in a certain way, and you realize that that person did not perceive you very well or not listening to you anymore after that, for example, you have two options, one be annoyed and angry at that person, Oh my God, you have a useless team member, or you can register that.
27:01
as a, okay, well, I said this, they said that, that's interesting. How could I improve that next time with another person when I chat? And I think when you take this experimental way of learning, just observing what actions bring what reactions, you can start noticing things. And also, you know, we mentioned feedback earlier. I think that's also a part of it.
27:25
proactively getting feedback, asking for feedback. It could be from your team members. It could be from the boss above you. But the idea is just to understand, okay, what kind of things could be done better. Also never underestimate the importance of additional training if you want to. There are loads of amazing leadership trainings out there where again, they can give you the tools, but then it will be your job to apply them and to see again, okay, this action caught me this reaction. So the idea is...
27:54
stay in the learning mindset and also track your progress and then compare it time to time. Just see where you are right now and where you were, for example, I don't know, one year ago as a leader and just see that progress in yourself and you'll find that actually it's just another skill that you can learn and you can be good at. It's learnable. It's not about being born with anything. It's learnable. So it just needs you to invest time in it. So your courses cover
28:22
impromptu speaking and storytelling. Now, before you go two things, one as a TEDx coach, what is it that you do? Sure. Well, as a TEDx coach, I help people who want to present at TEDx. It depends, but I often cooperate with organizers of TEDx events, and then they select the speakers they want to present that match their criteria.
28:48
But then what I do is I help them to make sure that that speech they've gotten in their mind, it meets the TEDx standards and to make sure that they have not just the important facts and data in there, but also ways to engage the audience, for example, by adding stories, which is something if you notice the majority of TEDx speakers do. Basically.
29:11
to coach them on their public speaking skills, because some people have amazing ideas. They could come from science, like they could be scientists, for example, or it could be from other industries where they're not used to sharing it out loud. So I basically help them with that. And not just I, it's skillsme in general. Our trainers get involved with this type of things. So Diana, the communication skills trainer, the tech speaker and coach and founder of skillsme Academy, which is a virtual school for communication skills development.
29:41
And before you go Diana, we want to know a lot more after this conversation, where can you find you on social media? So if you want to connect with me, best way to find me would be on LinkedIn. If you type Diana Robertson skills me, you will find me. If you want to send me a message or something, connect to me, but please with a personalized invite, just so I know who you are and how you found about me. Otherwise I might not know, and I might not connect back with you. So this is if you want to have a personal connection.
30:10
Now, if you want to check out our courses, for example, you could go to skillsme.co.uk and there you can find our courses and free workshops that we deliver on communication skills. And finally, if you just don't want to take any actions just yet, but just want to read and learn about various communication skills, you can check out our Instagram, which is skillsme soft skills, where we share loads of videos and posts on small tips on how to improve your communication.
30:40
on a daily basis. Mm-hmm. Thank you for those. I've seen your rules on Instagram. They're so much fun. Anybody who looks into Instagram, please check out the SkillsMe page. I will write all your socials on the show notes. Thank you so much, Diana, for being with us today. You've shared some amazing tips and thank you for sharing your story. We really appreciate that. Thank you so much, Roberta. Thank you for inviting and thank you all for listening. Don't forget to subscribe, give a rating and a review, and we'll see you next time.